SA Firefighter
General Discussion => SA Firefighter General => Topic started by: Cameron Yelland on July 05, 2008, 01:34:48 PM
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Gday,
Not being from the district im not really sure how things operate up that way so im hoping someone can fill me in.
MFS: *CFSRES INC022 05/07/08 11:01,RESPOND Vehicle Accident,STUART HWY,PORT AUGUSTA MAP 0 0 0 TG192,100 KM NTH OF TOWN CAR AND VAN ROLLOVER,- NIL ENTRAPMENTS,PAU519
-= MFS Port Augusta Response =-
MFS: *CFSRES INC022 05/07/08 11:07,RESPOND Vehicle Accident,STUART HWY,PORT AUGUSTA MAP 0 0 0 TG192,100 KM NORTH OF TOWN - CAR AND VAN ROLLO,VER - NIL ENTRAPMENTS - MFS RESPONDING A,S WELL,STLN19
-= CFS Stirling North Response =-
Fire Call. More crew required URGENTLY
-= MFS Port Augusta Response =-
STLN: *CFSRES: MORE CREW REQUIRED RESPOND STIRLING_NTH STATION 05-07-08 11
-= CFS Stirling North Response =-
Now it appears that both brigades are responding to a Vehicle Accident 100km north of the town. Thus leaving Pt Augusta and stirling north reasonably unprotected. I assume this because both were struggling for crew plus this following page -
MFS: PORT PIRIE RETAINED CREW CHANGE QUARTERS TO PORT AUGUSTA PER S/O MELIN REQUEST
-= MFS Pt Pirie Fulltimers Response =-
FIRE CALL ATTEND STATION
-= MFS Pt Pirie Retainers Response =-
Also on a funny note they paged the fulltimers instead of the retainers even though the page stated retainers!
Anyway what are everyones thoughts?
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From what I have been told, Stirling North struggle with qualified crew so they have MFS dispatched to all RCR jobs as well. MFS have an obligation to maintain fire cover for the town as well, so they make sure they have enough before they go. They also seem to bring Pirie up as well even though they have a crew in station, I guess they figure its a long time for back up if they only have 1 appliance in station and the CFS are out as well. They proved it right having another call in the mix, even though it was minor.
I guess it comes back to the fact CFS rarely back fills their stations, so we aren't used to it.
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Either way, Woomera CFS should have been responded.
End of story.
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Your right RH no argument there, but they have a very bad habit of defaulting, they had a roll over 100km past Glendambo today & defaulted and to make things worse so did Glendambo. Having a prang on this highway would be painful wait for the occupants.
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From what I have been told, Stirling North struggle with qualified crew so they have MFS dispatched to all RCR jobs as well. MFS have an obligation to maintain fire cover for the town as well, so they make sure they have enough before they go. They also seem to bring Pirie up as well even though they have a crew in station, I guess they figure its a long time for back up if they only have 1 appliance in station and the CFS are out as well. They proved it right having another call in the mix, even though it was minor.
I guess it comes back to the fact CFS rarely back fills their stations, so we aren't used to it.
There ya go....basically the answer i was after. Just thought it was strange sending 2 trucks so far from town.
Dare i say it but wouldnt it be better in these situations to mix crews and go in one truck? *Hiding behind cupboard waiting for barrage*
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JC, before you go slinging the 'D' word..
122km north of Glendambo actually.. Which puts it at 232km north of Woomera.
Around 140 km south of Cooberpedy...- I know who's closer, and its not Woomera.
Any crash on the Stuart HWY is often a painful wait for the occuapants.. Welcome to the world of 'remote area incidents'.
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JC not sure we you are from(people still hiding behind nicknames) but for those in the know its football/net ball day! therefore all rural crews will be stretched. It is not a shameful thing to default & with these stupid rules around no full crew no truck rolls - then what do people expect?
Its easier in the city and at major population centres(like the Mt)to sling filtered! However in the rural & remote areas the population is shrinking, so drivers will need to be more careful won't they (or wait longer)!
In the future if the rules are to be followed to the letter, then you will see more defaults & people will have to wait longer not just for rescue, but fire & ambulance as well! And it won't matter if it is CFS, MFS Retained,SAAS or SES! Thats why we started the community responder program in the mid north.
Anyway get used to it (even from my little unit :wink: ).
Unless someone in the big smoke can come up with a sensible & sustainable solution, which I very much doubt :-D
cheers
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Its just one of those problems in any small country town or any remote area football/netball any sport on the weekend will see many locals out of town from all emergency service's.... No easy answer to the problem....may be a chopper with a RCR/medic crew???
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Yes (still a long response time)or relax the crewing rules abit or make drivers aware that if they crash in rural & remote areas, help may not come for awhile so don't crash!
cheers
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Its easier in the city and at major population centres(like the Mt)to sling filtered! However in the rural & remote areas the population is shrinking, so drivers will need to be more careful won't they (or wait longer)!
Not sure if you are aiming that at me but i wasnt slinging...just asking why
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No Cam - it was aimed at the people who point their finger at others and go tsk tsk when they don't know the full story. I have seen no evidence to support the default comment & knowing the size of Glendambo, I find it hard to believe they could even support a brigade & Woomera is similar so they defaulted so what!
As I said this is going to become more common, so get used to it.
cheers
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hey chook we have that problem 15 minutes from Adelaide
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yeah I know mate but help isn't that far away, mind you the section between Mbridge & Loxton always worries me & now Blanchtown are short too (work commitments out of town). So thats why solutions that look good in Adelaide may not be that great out here.
And stuff like this doesn't help
1916030 18:34:58 05-07-08 CD181 Cat2 Eyre Hwy, Nullarbor SAAS Ceduna
1915752 18:34:50 05-07-08 YT181 Cat2 Eyre Hwy, Nullarbor SAAS Yalata
1923231 18:59:48 05-07-08 MFS: *CFSRES INC053 05/07/08 18:59,RESPOND RCR,NULLARBOR SES,NULLARBOR MAP 0 A 0,70KM WEST OF NULLA ROAD HOUSE,2 TRUCKS SIDE SWIPED, 1 TRAPPED,SAPOL MSG 987,CED020 SES Ceduna
1919488 19:43:48 05-07-08 MFS: *CFSRES INC053 05/07/08 19:42,RESPOND Hazmat Incident,NULLARBOR SES,NULLARBOR MAP 0 A 0 TG009,EYRE HWY, 70KM WEST OF NULLA ROADHOUSE,2 TRUCKS, 1 CARRY COTTON,OTHER CARRY INSECTICIDE,CEDU19 WUDN28 CFS Caralue (Kimba) Group Officers Response
1919504 19:43:46 05-07-08 MFS: *CFSRES INC053 05/07/08 19:42,RESPOND Hazmat Incident,NULLARBOR SES,NULLARBOR MAP 0 A 0 TG009,EYRE HWY, 70KM WEST OF NULLA ROADHOUSE,2 TRUCKS, 1 CARRY COTTON,OTHER CARRY INSECTICIDE,CEDU19 WUDN28 CFS Wudinna Response
1919437 19:43:35 05-07-08 MFS: *CFSRES INC053 05/07/08 19:42,RESPOND Hazmat Incident,NULLARBOR SES,NULLARBOR MAP 0 A 0 TG009,EYRE HWY, 70KM WEST OF NULLA ROADHOUSE,2 TRUCKS, 1 CARRY COTTON,OTHER CARRY INSECTICIDE,CEDU19 WUDN28 CFS Western Eyre Group Officers Response
1919438 19:43:33 05-07-08 MFS: *CFSRES INC053 05/07/08 19:42,RESPOND Hazmat Incident,NULLARBOR SES,NULLARBOR MAP 0 A 0 TG009,EYRE HWY, 70KM WEST OF NULLA ROADHOUSE,2 TRUCKS, 1 CARRY COTTON,OTHER CARRY INSECTICIDE,CEDU19 WUDN28 CFS Ceduna Response
Filtered me!
Anyway cheers
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Insecticide, how unlucky :|
Inital response should have been Ceduna CFS and SES.
Personally i think any Truck Smash or Fire can potentially be a hazmat. But should be a optional thing just like "Consider Evacuation" > "Consider tagging along a Hazmat Brigade to be on the safe side?
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From memory Zippy, I think they are a mixed unit Zippy but your right it should have been both & the time delay was appalling considering the distance!
Anyway I'm sure it will be all fixed :evil:
cheers
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mixed unit? nice thats great news :D not many of them in the state...good commodity.
But that still doesnt make sense when Adelaide fire shoulda known that a 72### or @@@029 = a SES...and forgetting to attach a fire resource. Why they need to know? because they are...adelaide fire ;).
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Yeah I agree, not sure 100% though! But fire should have been paged - that I do know.
cheers
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Nullabor Roadhouse around is around 200 km from the WA border, and if the crash was 70 km west of the Roadhouse, it would make it around 130 km from Eucla - who I figure would have been responded as fire cover.
Ceduna is around 320km from Nullabor Roadhouse..add to that the 70 km the other side of the roadhouse from Ceduna, making it around 390 km away.....
As I understand it, Ceduna were responded as part of a Hazmat respose, NOT a fire cover one (and in the end, it would appear, there was no hazardous spill)
Pip
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So Pip you are saying Eucla was responded from WA & rescue was responded from Ceduna along with SAAS?
Makes sense maybe Adelaide Fire may have mentioned that by radio.
And as Eucla is a volunteer emergency service unit i.e. not a FESA fire & rescue, they are both fire & SES & would be RCR rescue so why wasn't rescue responded from there? Short of crew perhaps?
Seems to me Pip it was a bit of a mish mash.
As I said above the one size (or ideas dreamed up in Adelaide)fits all approach does not work in remote & rural areas, so maybe SAFECOM needs to workout how the government is going to provide Emergency coverage across the state because the current system will collapse its only a matter of time.
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SACAD *should* be the fix to all this. But in the mean time for the next 24 months plus, happily and merrily ask Adelaide fire to respond the appropriate first alarm resources rather than 0.5 Alarm or should i say "SOP pre-determined resources" ;). But thank god its not July-September of 2007 anymore...its better these days at least to a degree.
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Mast have been a Adeliade fire thing last night as there was a ten min delay for a page to a MVA when MFS from Port Augusta where already on the way...Also MVA outside the bridge prison MFS where paged then wher on scene and asked fro CFS to send one appliances?? what happend to the two station turn out.....
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From ABC NEWS-
Two airlifted to hospital after highway collision
Posted 9 hours 21 minutes ago
Two people will be airlifted to hospital after a truck collision on a remote stretch of road in South Australia's far west.
Police say two trucks sideswiped each other on the Eyre Highway, 70 kilometres from the Nullarbor Roadhouse about 6.30pm (ACST) on Saturday.
Police say toxic chemicals were leaking from one of the trucks and hazardous materials experts were called to the scene.
South Australian authorities said fog and the remoteness of the area posed a challenge.
State Emergency Service workers from South Australia and Western Australia freed a male truck driver from the wreckage.
He will be taken by the Royal Flying Doctor Service to hospital along with another injured person.
Police have closed the highway between the West Australian border and the Nullarbor Roadhouse.
Well there you go! - not enough crew from Eucla. I've also heard the WA gear is 20 years old, so it may not have been up to the challange (the whole lot is being replaced this year). At the end of the day the job was done - well done to those crews! However time for a re-think & a new topic I think!
cheers
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Mast have been a Adeliade fire thing last night as there was a ten min delay for a page to a MVA when MFS from Port Augusta where already on the way...Also MVA outside the bridge prison MFS where paged then wher on scene and asked fro CFS to send one appliances?? what happend to the two station turn out.....
Because bill when it comes to outside the metro area adelaide fire have no idea so theyll just respond the nearest mfs resource, even if it is 100km's away.
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I know this sounds abit far-fetched but how about issuing Eucla volunteer emergency service unit with an SES and CFS GRN Radios so in the event that another crash happens on the Eyre highway close to the WA border like this one which happened yesterday requiring emergency crews from both states to respond communications between both agencies would be necessary
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Robert why CFS/SES radios? There should only be one! This indicates the basic problem, an idea that looked great in Waymouth st that doesn't work in the real world!
We critise Adelaide Fire, however if you were an outsider looking in, you would really wonder!
We have three services who provide emergency coverage who have three differnt methods of operation, different SOP's, different set ups for radios & wonder why there are problems.
For instance, we had a job recently which us and SAMFS were responded to, the local station told Adelaide fire that this was in fact in a CFS area. Adelaide Fire then responded Glossop CFS, which because it was an rcr got Barmera SES responded as well, Glossop then told Adelaide Fire No this is a Monash area. So now we have Berri SAMFS, Berri SES, Glossop CFS, Barmera SES & Monash CFS plus SAAS & SAPOL all going to the same incident. Fortunately no one was hurt & Barmera was contacted to stop their response (they are still waiting for the stop call page).
Then yesterday (as well as others), resources weren't responded or the timing is way off.
As I said may be its time for a re-think.
cheers
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So Pip you are saying Eucla was responded from WA & rescue was responded from Ceduna along with SAAS?
Makes sense maybe Adelaide Fire may have mentioned that by radio.
And as Eucla is a volunteer emergency service unit i.e. not a FESA fire & rescue, they are both fire & SES & would be RCR rescue so why wasn't rescue responded from there? Short of crew perhaps?
Seems to me Pip it was a bit of a mish mash.
As I said above the one size (or ideas dreamed up in Adelaide)fits all approach does not work in remote & rural areas, so maybe SAFECOM needs to workout how the government is going to provide Emergency coverage across the state because the current system will collapse its only a matter of time.
Eucla was a CFS brigade until a few years ago, despite being a 12km over the WA border. There is also a Eucla SES and Eucla ambos. A couple of years ago, the responsibility for the funding / operations etc was handed over the FESA.
I believe the fire truck is still a standard issue CFS 24......
I figure that perhaps Eucla SES AND Ceduna SES were both sent, as initial reports perhaps mentioned two trucks involved, and the potential for TWO rescues being needed
I believe the fire truck is still a standard issue CFS 24......
In this case, I figure ambulance & rescue resources were sent from either end of the call, with fire resources being sent from the closest resource (Eucla). With further information being obtained re the load in the trucks, THEN hazmat units were dispatched from the next few closest hazmat brigades....
Of course, Eucla is no longer on the GRN paging system, so we don't see their pager messages.......
The Eucla fire truck used to have a GRN radio fitted...they may still do, considering their proximity to the border.....
Pip
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I wasn't pointing the finger at anyone chook i was simply stating a fact, i have had the enjoyment of 200+km drives plenty of times to Glendambo due to defaults and for back up (same as the R.D SES and SAAS have), and HR i also thought it was a touch weired the C.Pedy wasn't dual responded initially (i was just going of the pager info)but hey its not hard to lose track of where you are on that highway for someone who is calling it in..
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Fair point JC (Please accept my humble apologies). But thats my point should brigades like Glendambo be full CFS brigades at all? (Refer to other post) Is it a bit much to expect towns of that size to provide a 24/7 coverage to a wide area?
Would a combined Volunteer Emergency Community response set up be better? (I.e a couple of people trained in first response disciplines who can get out there fast size up the scene & provide information back to the normal responders).
If that was the case, then Adelaide fire would know that they would need to dual respond additional resources straight up.
It would be hard for someone sitting in Adelaide at a console to know that such & such brigade is fairly small & unlikely to be able to provide effective full coverage.
Anyway I believe this is the subject for a new topic so cheers
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Mast have been a Adeliade fire thing last night as there was a ten min delay for a page to a MVA when MFS from Port Augusta where already on the way...Also MVA outside the bridge prison MFS where paged then wher on scene and asked fro CFS to send one appliances?? what happend to the two station turn out.....
Maurice road in Murray Bridge is part CFS, part MFS area. Hence the initial MFS/SES response to the job. Adelaide Fire are not expected to know that the prison part of Maurice Rd is CFS area. Alarm responses to the prison are dual response but those are auto despatch nothing to do with Adelaide Fire. CFS were obviously requested to attend the MVA by MFS crew on scene as it was in fact CFS area.
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And unfortunatley, despite an apparent desire by all services to have a system of "closest & most appropriate resource" being dispatched, in reality the current system is still unable to do that (and that is not meant to be a criticism of Adelaide Fire)
We have been told that the Minister now believes that the whole CRD system is now working fine, as there have been very few issues forms submitted lately. It would appear that there are still issues out there...hopefully forms are being submitted!!
Pip
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If the road is in both CFS & MFS area whatever happened to dual response?
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Pip I have it on very good authority that a)there is a new combined form (I've seen it) b) the minister wouldn't see those forms & c) that most people think they are a waste of time! for a start its called a grievance form, not a just curious what happened? form.
I know a neighbouring unit asked why we were responded to a job they were dealing with & they were slightly embarrassed when the answer came back to the group of us as a grievance (and the answer supplied was completely wrong anyway).
So what is the point? There is some"stuff" going on between two local brigades up here & all the forms in the world won't fix it. Only a proper digitised map with boundries clearly marked at Adelaide fire will fix it - by the way every time this problem happens it impacts on us as well!
So roll on SACAD
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Might have to retitle this thread as it has digressed into a general RCR responses thread rather than just Port Augusta's :-)
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Mast have been a Adeliade fire thing last night as there was a ten min delay for a page to a MVA when MFS from Port Augusta where already on the way...Also MVA outside the bridge prison MFS where paged then wher on scene and asked fro CFS to send one appliances?? what happend to the two station turn out.....
Maurice road in Murray Bridge is part CFS, part MFS area. Hence the initial MFS/SES response to the job. Adelaide Fire are not expected to know that the prison part of Maurice Rd is CFS area. Alarm responses to the prison are dual response but those are auto despatch nothing to do with Adelaide Fire. CFS were obviously requested to attend the MVA by MFS crew on scene as it was in fact CFS area.
I understand that but to wait 1/2 an hour and do it, although you would think the local crews would have that sort of knowledge and pass it on sooner? maybe say when acknowledging the page perhaps?
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All good chook fair point your making to. Glendambo from memory only have about 3-4 members and a 14 appliance, but the captain up there is a gun (have a great story about him if ya wana hear it pm me)
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This threads a bit of a joke really...
All responses are set by the data in BOMs and the RCRD.
If the data in BOMS isnt correct then CFS only has itself to blame for moving CRD when they knew they wouldnt be able to update the data in the system. So they came up with the idea that comms would phone our alerts for every response to CFS area and ask them who they wanted responded to assist, only being able to add to what the RCRD reccomends not remove anything. [If the response still isnt correct then who is to blame??? Locals.]
If the RCRD is incorrect then greivance forms need to be entered.
No excuses for anyone, vols, staff, comms... but remember, everything relies on accurate information being received and entered into the system, and also accurate information from Alerts.
In this case, Maurice Rd, Murray Bridge is a location that should be enough for a response, if it reccomends MFS then the locals should have the brains to call for backup as soon as there Do gets the page.
So how many times now has this topic been bashed? Must be wearing out some keyboards somewhere.... i know its not a nice sunny day out, but surely...
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Sunny?.. Not where I am !
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I wasn't pointing the finger at anyone chook i was simply stating a fact, i have had the enjoyment of 200+km drives plenty of times to Glendambo due to defaults and for back up (same as the R.D SES and SAAS have), and HR i also thought it was a touch weired the C.Pedy wasn't dual responded initially (i was just going of the pager info)but hey its not hard to lose track of where you are on that highway for someone who is calling it in..
For info, the initial call put it where it was.. 232km north of Woomera, and 140 odd km south of Coober..
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Mast have been a Adeliade fire thing last night as there was a ten min delay for a page to a MVA when MFS from Port Augusta where already on the way...Also MVA outside the bridge prison MFS where paged then wher on scene and asked fro CFS to send one appliances?? what happend to the two station turn out.....
Because bill when it comes to outside the metro area adelaide fire have no idea so theyll just respond the nearest mfs resource, even if it is 100km's away.
Yeah, of course thats how it works..............if only you guys ran the world :roll: