SA Firefighter
General Discussion => Country Fire Service => Topic started by: big bronto on January 28, 2009, 10:23:31 AM
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Reading the latest volunteer mag i find this interesting and the reason urban brigades cannot get anywhere in the CFS, time for 3 fire services MFS, CFS URBAN, CFS RURAL.
i quote "however, feedback from volunteers has indicated that some feel our vehicle are overly complex and carry stowage they will never use. other have commented that our vehicles have become overly "urban" centric...
When only 5% of CFS are really urban brigades with NO support and all the rural guys making these comments and being involved in vehicle committees how are we supposed to move forward. Fine if they think these 34P's are too urban then every urban brigade gets them and send the barn carts out to the sticks.
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i agree BUT...the rural guys need to learn how that over time, extra skills are required as Risks change.
Change Management its called ;)
34P's are in no way Too Urban...the fact they have: A Lot of water, A lot of resources, A Lot of hose, A Lot of everything. Is exactly what isolated brigades need.
When youve got gazzilion brigades 10mins away in Region 1. The "Everything in One" isnt required. Specialist resources are the way to go. but remembering that the other regions also need specialist resources when the odd Big one occurs.
Three Fire brigades will be the wrong way to go.
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Change Management its called ;)
Hang on there Zippy don't paint all rural / isolated Brigades as something as dinosaurs that still do it the old way and don't adapt to change. Some of us out here in the sticks thrive on changing and improving things for the Brigade and the community so that we can provide the best possible service to the community that we serve.
Three Fire brigades will be the wrong way to go.
Spot on no need for three services then again the Volunteer is still sitting next to me waiting for me to read when I get boared here at work so I really can't comment till I read the article in question.
Can't wait for a 34P to turn up on our Brigade door step BTW we still do have the old towns hook up trailer set as a back up as some people love their old quaint ideas.
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yeah i know....its a mixed world out there! or a Bag of lollies
yeah, a 34P is an improvement over any 24 or 34...
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Vote NO: 3 Fire brigades
Vote YES: Euan, and the rest of the community realising that CFS CAN and DO respond to more than just Rural fires.
I would really love to see some high capacity (5000+ L) rural fire trucks that carry the bare minimum, ie. water, pump, hose, crew though. And I would like to see CFS step away from the concept that all fire trucks have to be either MR or LR.
But on the other hand, I also like the idea of rural brigades having multiple NPWS style 14 appliances ie. 3 per brigade and some more BWC's (probably most cost effective option)...this is rather than having X4P appliance and X4 appliance... ie. have X4P appliance and 3 14 appliances, with multiple tankers within a group.
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WE can't have 3 fire brigades as the urban CFS bit would be so small they would get completely neglected.
Being innovative with our trucks is a smart idea tho
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where did URBAN CFS come from?
If it's that urban - why haven't MFS taken it over?
oh wait....free labour..that would be why....
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Well, we currently have only one fire service, so perhaps it would be better to see working groups within that framework work with the mindset of "Urban Fulltime, Urban Volunteer, Fulltime Rural, Volunteer Rural". As it stands within the CFS, it stinks. The best 'Urban' truck we can make is a spec from another State, not bothering with the "Rescue" variants of the truck - the CFS and the rural boys that sit on the Appliance committees need to have their heads read.
Honestly, I would love to know where these responses came from and what they mean by "overly "urban" centric". What? They carry CABA? and a ceiling hook? and 'pumpers' have no crew deck?! Because thats about the only vaguely urban thing around these days. 34P's wouldn't know what 'a lot of hose' or Urban stowage looked like. The same can essentially be said about Pumpers.
How complicated are things really? Pumps can be intimidating, but they are are simple. The equipment? Apart from RCR and some Hazmat stuff its all very basic... Were the volunteers that did the survey smoking?
WE can't have 3 fire brigades as the urban CFS bit would be so small they would get completely neglected.
Look at SAMFS. They are one of the smallest paid services in the country, but they have great gear, great trucks and are pushing the envelope in places. They can afford to do this when they are only fitting out 16 station. If the 'Urban CFS' only has a handful of stations it may make it easier to move forward. Designing a truck for ONLY 10 brigades that has a short list of specific uses is far easier than developing a truck for the entire state with 1000's of uses.
where did URBAN CFS come from?
If it's that urban - why haven't MFS taken it over?
oh wait....free labour..that would be why....
I'd say 'Urban CFS' comes around when a Brigade is turning out to more 'Urban' incidents than 'Rural'.
And yeah, its free labour. Do you really think the state could afford a paid station in every location that warrants it?
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To be fair the one size fits all would surely have to be sinking back into the abyss that it came from and derves to go.
I don't see the problem in having a peri-urban service maybe as a rural service we can get rid of some of the quaint ideas that we have for rural appliance like a 14 at Glendambo yes it might resolve a crewing problems but what happens when it it out of water in 3 minutes at a car fire. Yes 14's are good in the hilly terrain but as Zippy described as the 34's being sent to the more remote areas and some configuration for areas where brigades are closer to each other.
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i agree we don't need 3 fire services, what we do need however is changes to the concept that every brigade fits in to 3 groups ie Urban or Urban/rural or Rural and the equipment provided for these is the same for all.
for instance not all Urban brigades would need a pumper like say Millicent has, and not all Rural brigades would need the "standard" 34 currently provided. The resoursing of all brigades needs to be done on a brigade by brigade basis.
What we cannot do however is have a multitude of options to choose from as this would have us go back to pre 1983 when we had any and every type of units we could get.
there is several good options around that the I&L section is aware of/ trailing and investigating. They have put out a discussion paper on this subject.
eg a 6 wheel QAV type vehicle (based on the Tasmanian units)is being trailed in i think the Pinnaroo area
the CFA has developed a light tanker with many new features such as remote monitors and a high pressure mop up line.
The provision of group tankers (i know some regions/ groups have had tankers for some time but it is only in the past year or so my region has been provided with some. (don't quote me but i think the count is as of now 5 CFS owned tankers for the region))
the provision of new and improved equipment is only the first part. The hardest part is to convince some people that you don't need a whole lot of equipment and water to fight 95% of the fires we have, you have to fight them smarter.
cheers
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the topic of how much water a brigade has available to them is certainly an intersting one.
if youve got no mains water readily accessible. Larger tanks should be priority.
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for lots of Brigades....a 10,000 litre tanka with a 9hp Onga pump would be fine - and cheaper
CFS will never be truly innovative in appliance design while we build so few, are required to tender the way we do, and have the people in charge (of design and delivery) we do. The CFA concept build of the Light Tanker is an excellent idea (go to Youtube and search for CFA Light Tanker Concept), theres a few things that could be better, but overall, you guys who like to stay on the pump deck and fight grass fires, would be more than happy with this...and u can run it with 2 people.....THATS innovative design - perfect?...nope....but still filtered good - Nike is right....lets just get on and do it.
3 Services?...bah....stoopid Safecom media types have no idea how they dumb down the CFS and its operations sometimes.....its bad enough when they do it in the public arena (please dont keep referring to me as a Volunteer all the time, I sound like a parent at a swimming carnival....just refer to us as firefighters - judge me on the service....not my payslip) but when u do it to us...then u just show ur ignorance. Pity our senior staff cant grasp this and kick it into touch before it even gets a guernsey
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for lots of Brigades....a 10,000 litre tanka with a 9hp Onga pump would be fine - and cheaper
CFS will never be truly innovative in appliance design while we build so few, are required to tender the way we do, and have the people in charge (of design and delivery) we do. The CFA concept build of the Light Tanker is an excellent idea (go to Youtube and search for CFA Light Tanker Concept), theres a few things that could be better, but overall, you guys who like to stay on the pump deck and fight grass fires, would be more than happy with this...and u can run it with 2 people.....THATS innovative design - perfect?...nope....but still filtered good - Nike is right....lets just get on and do it.
3 Services?...bah....stoopid Safecom media types have no idea how they dumb down the CFS and its operations sometimes.....its bad enough when they do it in the public arena (please dont keep referring to me as a Volunteer all the time, I sound like a parent at a swimming carnival....just refer to us as firefighters - judge me on the service....not my payslip) but when u do it to us...then u just show ur ignorance. Pity our senior staff cant grasp this and kick it into touch before it even gets a guernsey
I really don't think that there is anything wrong with the rural appliances that the CFS builds. They've got water, equipment, and they are generally sized correctly for their area. Having the LR/14/24/34/Tanker allows plenty of room to fit an appliance to an area. The system falls down when rather than innovate, CFS try to cram more gear on a truck not designed for it, whats worse is they start allocating stowage to fit the truck, rather than designing a truck to fit the stowage.
Sadly mate, we in the CFS ARE volunteers. Personally I think it's really good that the distinction is made, when we are already fighting public perception that we are 24/7 staffed fulltime paid crews. Its good for recruitment, allowing the public to realise that their local brigades are 'only' volunteers and that they can join too. Theres nothing wrong with being a volunteer, maybe you should pride yourself on the service you are providing to the community? Don't see the term volunteer as slanderous.
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for real Urban Rural pumper/tankers....Search PLENTY Pumper Tanker on Ozfire. I quite like it ;)
The pump is nicely finished off with no Plumbing in sight :)
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Sadly mate, we in the CFS ARE volunteers. Personally I think it's really good that the distinction is made, when we are already fighting public perception that we are 24/7 staffed fulltime paid crews. Its good for recruitment, allowing the public to realise that their local brigades are 'only' volunteers and that they can join too. Theres nothing wrong with being a volunteer, maybe you should pride yourself on the service you are providing to the community? Don't see the term volunteer as slanderous.
Numbers I hear that argument a lot. Firstly, I have absolutely no issues whatsoever being someone who does not get paid for what I do. I don't volunteer, i live in the Hills, it's my OBLIGATION. I look at it a different way. When i hear of a parent volunteering to help with reading in a school class, i don't have too many expectations, they will work within a system, someone who is paid will oversee them and do what they can, I'm thankful for their contribution and their time, but thats about it. If I hear of a student support officer in the class, I have a different lot of expectations - like they need to perform. If they need support to do that....then the education system has to provide it, and if it doesnt, the union brings it to the publics attention so we can decide if it is an issue for us at the ballot box. I figure that we do ourselves a real disservice by continually playing the volunteer card.....the public just dont expect anything much from us, in their words "cos they are just volunteers". This is backed up with lots of market research.
I reckon the Country Fire Service should aim at selling itself AS a fire service, not as a volunteer organisation - then, you might start to have some more bargaining power when it comes to the allocation of resources
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Hear Hear.
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Numbers I hear that argument a lot. Firstly, I have absolutely no issues whatsoever being someone who does not get paid for what I do. I don't volunteer, i live in the Hills, it's my OBLIGATION.
Don't get me wrong, I joined as I felt I was obliged to as well.
I look at it a different way. When i hear of a parent volunteering to help with reading in a school class, i don't have too many expectations, they will work within a system, someone who is paid will oversee them and do what they can, I'm thankful for their contribution and their time, but thats about it.
Thats basically what the CFS is though, far too many people in the CFS hide behind the fact that they are Volunteering and are making such a HUGE effort to their community because THEY volunteer THEIR time, and that thus makes them exempt from any form of scrutiny. I don't agree with this at all, and rather hate the idea.
I figure that we do ourselves a real disservice by continually playing the volunteer card.....the public just don't expect anything much from us, in their words "cos they are just volunteers". This is backed up with lots of market research.
Part of the problem is that, like above, that "just volunteers" attitude is one that we hold and one that we portray to the public with our mishmash of uniforms, trucks, livery, emblems. We look and act like Dads Army - why should the public see something different?
I reckon the Country Fire Service should aim at selling itself AS a fire service, not as a volunteer organisation - then, you might start to have some more bargaining power when it comes to the allocation of resources
Before the CFS can sell itself as a Fire Service, as it well should, the CFS needs to take itself seriously as a Fire Service. There needs to be pride at a local Brigade level in both the Brigade, but also the Service as a whole. Currently neither the CFS nor the CFSVA does anything at all to foster this, and at times you could almost suggest they actively discourage it by the way they treat their members.
Perhaps we need to be referred to as CFS Firefighters, and leave the "CFS = Volunteers = We need YOU" to the Media dept to strongly make the point and outline what we do in a different campaign.
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Have to agree with you Numbers on every point (& not just with the CFS).
I am surprised that any thoughts of a "third" fire service even made it to print (now that I am living in a state that has 4 rescue services & see what a mess that can cause).
Anyway have a safe day & keep cool :-D
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Before the CFS can sell itself as a Fire Service, as it well should, the CFS needs to take itself seriously as a Fire Service. There needs to be pride at a local Brigade level in both the Brigade, but also the Service as a whole.
absolutely agree with you
Perhaps we need to be referred to as CFS Firefighters, and leave the "CFS = Volunteers = We need YOU" to the Media dept to strongly make the point and outline what we do in a different campaign.
I'm happy with this too, bring it on
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(now that I am living in a state that has 4 rescue services & see what a mess that can cause).
Anyway have a safe day & keep cool :-D
4 rescue services, What happened to the 5th??
24p
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Well 3 fire services was meant to be a joke to point out there are 3 operating at the moment, what it should be is one fire service with 3 categories, fulltime urban, volunteer urban, volunteer rural.
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the volunteer rural would be wayyy to much like the QLD RFS...
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(now that I am living in a state that has 4 rescue services & see what a mess that can cause).
Anyway have a safe day & keep cool :-D
4 rescue services, What happened to the 5th??
24p
I think he's counting the VRA as dead already...
Well 3 fire services was meant to be a joke to point out there are 3 operating at the moment, what it should be is one fire service with 3 categories, fulltime urban, volunteer urban, volunteer rural.
Its already one fire service with two arms: SAFECOM Paid and Volunteer. ;)
the volunteer rural would be wayyy to much like the QLD RFS...
Apart from using beaters and yellow beacons, is there anything wrong with this? CFS are already trying to streamline the BFF1 Package into a quick Rural Firefighting 101, moreso than it already is (if thats possible), if people only want to deal with rural incidents, then give them a 34, some hose, some lvl 1 gear and let them go wild!
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Apart from using beaters and yellow beacons, is there anything wrong with this? CFS are already trying to streamline the BFF1 Package into a quick Rural Firefighting 101, moreso than it already is (if thats possible), if people only want to deal with rural incidents, then give them a 34, some hose, some lvl 1 gear and let them go wild!
*Zippy's Face plants on the Table*
"Dad's Army 3.0"
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Adelaide Now
"Both the department and the state's volunteer firefighting army are on standby across the state as north winds threaten to make a bad day worse."
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Ok, as the definitive and final argument for the "CFS = Dads Army" I just accidentally opened http://www.cfs.sa.gov.au/ (http://www.cfs.sa.gov.au/) (Yeah I don't know what came over me either)
What am I greeted with? 4 People with 8 teeth between them and a combined IQ that may glance double figures. Great! So I mash F5 for a bit and get to see a smattering of other photos all with one thing in common. All but one are from jobs out in the sticks featuring people who genuinely surprise me with their ability to get dressed for the Firecall. The one from a non sticks job has some crazy disco lighting and a bloke in a tabbard standing near a car or something. There are two pictures featured where there is a kind of common theme of uniform. What a ragtag army of professional firefighters we are. People standing around joking, laughing and looking like they're having a great time on a camping trip to Ularu does not really instill any confidence in the service. I can almost understand where the CFS was going with the "Human" angle, but by god it comes of badly.
Here's a tip. I'm going to quickly link to a smattering of pictures (Thanks Pip and Ashes!) that A) Make us look professional and B) Feature RESCUE and HAZMAT and STRUCTURE FIRES.
http://www.fire-brigade.asn.au/gallery/incidents/page26photos/1-rl-MVASpringsRd-005.jpg (http://www.fire-brigade.asn.au/gallery/incidents/page26photos/1-rl-MVASpringsRd-005.jpg)
http://www.fire-brigade.asn.au/gallery/incidents/page26photos/1-rl-house_fire_barker_springs_004_194.jpg (http://www.fire-brigade.asn.au/gallery/incidents/page26photos/1-rl-house_fire_barker_springs_004_194.jpg)
http://www.fire-brigade.asn.au/gallery/incidents/page26photos/1-rl-house_fire_barker_springs_005_127.jpg (http://www.fire-brigade.asn.au/gallery/incidents/page26photos/1-rl-house_fire_barker_springs_005_127.jpg)
http://www.fire-brigade.asn.au/gallery/incidents/page25photos/1-oakhazmat-Dsc_6648.jpg (http://www.fire-brigade.asn.au/gallery/incidents/page25photos/1-oakhazmat-Dsc_6648.jpg)
http://www.fire-brigade.asn.au/gallery/incidents/page25photos/1-barker-house-Dsc_7913.jpg (http://www.fire-brigade.asn.au/gallery/incidents/page25photos/1-barker-house-Dsc_7913.jpg)
http://www.fire-brigade.asn.au/gallery/incidents/page24photos/1-barker-house-Dsc_4096.jpg (http://www.fire-brigade.asn.au/gallery/incidents/page24photos/1-barker-house-Dsc_4096.jpg)
http://www.fire-brigade.asn.au/gallery/incidents/page24photos/1-birdwood-mock-Dsc_3677.jpg (http://www.fire-brigade.asn.au/gallery/incidents/page24photos/1-birdwood-mock-Dsc_3677.jpg)
(Ok, maybe next time love, you can A) Not step on the hose and B) Make the cut in the right position, but it'll do)
http://www.fire-brigade.asn.au/gallery/incidents/page25photos/1-slcfs-buchfeldefiremon17-11-08-004.jpg (http://www.fire-brigade.asn.au/gallery/incidents/page25photos/1-slcfs-buchfeldefiremon17-11-08-004.jpg)
(Oops, Rural again)
http://www.fire-brigade.asn.au/gallery/incidents/page23photos/1-hazmatbside-Dsc_6824.jpg (http://www.fire-brigade.asn.au/gallery/incidents/page23photos/1-hazmatbside-Dsc_6824.jpg)
http://www.fire-brigade.asn.au/gallery/incidents/page23photos/1-ja-img_1315_847.jpg (http://www.fire-brigade.asn.au/gallery/incidents/page23photos/1-ja-img_1315_847.jpg)
http://www.fire-brigade.asn.au/gallery/incidents/page21photos/1-ss-img_4666_212.jpg (http://www.fire-brigade.asn.au/gallery/incidents/page21photos/1-ss-img_4666_212.jpg)
http://www.fire-brigade.asn.au/gallery/incidents/page20photos/1-baglen-Dsc_5042.jpg (http://www.fire-brigade.asn.au/gallery/incidents/page20photos/1-baglen-Dsc_5042.jpg)
Jesus Christ CFS, it's not hard. When are you going to acknowledge that we don't just fuckarse around at bushfires anymore!
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let crck open that DVD of the complete seris of DAD's Army to motivate our selves for today
Apart from using beaters and yellow beacons, is there anything wrong with this? CFS are already trying to streamline the BFF1 Package into a quick Rural Firefighting 101, moreso than it already is (if thats possible), if people only want to deal with rural incidents, then give them a 34, some hose, some lvl 1 gear and let them go wild!
And you wonder why they see us as Dad's Army service with comments like that one. The worse thing about it it's so true. :-(
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this one might stir up SES, and eh..someone on here ;)
http://fire-brigade.asn.au/gallery/incidents/page24photos/1-woodhouse-Dsc_2340.jpg
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Ok, as the definitive and final argument for the "CFS = Dads Army" I just accidentally opened http://www.cfs.sa.gov.au/ (http://www.cfs.sa.gov.au/) (Yeah I don't know what came over me either)
What am I greeted with? 4 People with 8 teeth between them and a combined IQ that may glance double figures. Great! So I mash F5 for a bit and get to see a smattering of other photos all with one thing in common. All but one are from jobs out in the sticks featuring people who genuinely surprise me with their ability to get dressed for the Firecall. The one from a non sticks job has some crazy disco lighting and a bloke in a tabbard standing near a car or something. There are two pictures featured where there is a kind of common theme of uniform. What a ragtag army of professional firefighters we are. People standing around joking, laughing and looking like they're having a great time on a camping trip to Ularu does not really instill any confidence in the service. I can almost understand where the CFS was going with the "Human" angle, but by god it comes of badly.
Sorry to disappoint, but the bulk of the fire photos displayed are not from the sticks....
Gumeracha, Morialta, Willunga, a few from KI (perhaps classified as the sticks?), Warooka plus a road crash at Stirling.....
Pip
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well some of brigades around the state especially country areas with memebers made up of farmers first started a brigade way bak whenever because they wanted to protect their local farms and community from fires..and to this day that is still the case i know it is with my brigade we don want to worry bout other stuff like hazmat n RCR. We want to go put fire out n go home n shut the shed..Not saying this is view of everyone but i know a number of brigades that this is all they want to do.
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I like numbers post i am even in one of the better ones.
I fully agree that (even tho they are not from the sticks ) it is a complete rural feel. And we should push the other aspects of our work on the CFS website.
But there is a large divide in that many brigades do less than 20 callouts per year and realy don;t care about 90% of what the urbanish ones do
out of time but i'll be back
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Sorry to disappoint, but the bulk of the fire photos displayed are not from the sticks....
Gumeracha, Morialta, Willunga, a few from KI (perhaps classified as the sticks?), Warooka plus a road crash at Stirling.....
Pip
The point is though that to the casual observer they all look like jobs in the sticks, but moreso they are all Rural jobs with nothing indicating the variety of service we provide.
We want to go put fire out n go home n shut the shed..Not saying this is view of everyone but i know a number of brigades that this is all they want to do.
And there is nothing wrong with this at all. The problem comes when this is all that the CFS promote as their core business. As misterteddy said, we need to take ourselves seriously and promote the fact that we are a Fire Service (Be it rural/urban), not a Dads Army bushfire brigade.
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ahhh yes totally agree numbers :-)
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As we discuss the urban rural interface those of you who keep an eye on the Government notices would of seen today that two western area Brigades have been disolved but a new Brigade has been established in new location also in the west.
Even though the media portray economic gloom and doom we need to be mindful of how rural towns are changing. I can only hope that the CFS will take this opportunity to eat away the Dad's army badge that can be found out on the margins of the good earth.
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No I was thinking Ambulance Rescue :wink:(which the government was trying to phase out until very recently).
Zippy - if you are refering to me :- care factor Zero :-D, considering what triggered this conversation in the first place.
And going on what I've seen the CFS (and its volunteer supporters) are really good at self promotion.
But as I said previously Numbers is right, but you have to ask the questions 1 Is this a widely held view outside of the urban fringe? 2 Why did your magazine print those comments in the first place? Is there another agenda? (reduce the amount & type of training vollies in rural areas do, replace the hybrid rural/urban appliances with something more suitable?
And are some in your service (maybe the silent majority)hinting that they want to be more like the other Rural/country fire service & leave the more complicated stuff to someone else? Interesting NSWRFS aren't even allowed on a roof & no volunteers are allowed to operate over the speed limit & most like it that way.
cheers
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nah..im refering to the guy in the picture. Mr tough guy ;)
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Ah I wonder who that is? No worries Zippy :-D But I can understand why some would "just want to fight fires" guys. My new unit only does Storm & Flood (VRA does rescue), alot of our guys are ex VRA who just don't want to do it anymore but still want to serve their community. However due to a change in our funding model & other reasons, there is a push for us to be rescue sometime in the future. Now this is without consultation or consideration of our members, we have RFS, VRA as well as just plain SES members.
The unit members have not expressed a wish to expand our role or think its a great idea afterall SESNSW strongly promote our prime role (sound familiar),so I'm not sure its a great idea, so maybe in CFS's case all of the membership should be asked what"model" should CFS follow & alternatives to the current system (if indeed thatswhat the majority want). Anyway thats what I think :wink:
cheers
cheers
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I've read all the arguments for and against but as Chook said what are the views held outside of the urban rural fringe. Some of the problems that I noticed being from the rural brigade area is that (I'm not saying that I am in agreement or disagreement with these opinions but this is what is felt by some that I chat to)
*The BFF1 is too long and should be done in a weekend like the old Level 1
*To much paper work
*The SMD1 being pushed onto them
*That we only want to do what we need to protect our properties
*Not enough people in the community or locality to sustain a brigade through an exodus from farms to the mines
As one person said earlier we are having two brigade close down because it has become all to hard for them to keep up with it all.
Instead of focusing on the problems lets focus on the solutions. Having a problems solving approach brings with it a positive attitude to instead of a whining attitude
Now lets hear the solutions
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Maybe its time that all services come under 1 entity SAMFS, SACFS, DEH, Forrestry SA. Become the SA Fire Service.
It seems each one of the above services are doing their own thing when we should be all doing the same thing. You have to ask why? The only reason I can think of is the politics and everyone who is concerned looking after themself.
Communication & paging would be improved with DEH being placed into the paging dispatch network. This issue will not even be resolved with SACAD, I would of thought that SACAD would be the ideal time to sort it out.
Brigades which require urban pumpers can get a urban pumper without hassle.
Training which may be required for urban brigades like USAR can be completed instead of our fire service saying we are a rural fire service. - Their is no disagreement that part of our service is a rural service but we are also a urban service.
I could keep bringing up positive reasons for the amalgamation but with very few negatives.
I have seen significant change in the fire service but I do not remember how many ridiculous comments or changes which within the fire service were uncalled for in the last five years by the hierarchy of the service.
Don't get me wrong their has been changes which have been positive which have made the fire service good, but I think it is time we all become 1.
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DEH/Forestry fire services, are kinda intermingled with the actual core services of DEH/Forestry...bit tough trying to split the firefighting component into a SA Fire and Rescue Service.
But ey, the funding stream will be much easier to manage and resource over-duplication would be a thing of the past!
Might also be worth trying to introduce some CFA/MFB terminology into the system aswell like "Make Tankers 10" instead of having to rattle off brigade names and etc. Then again...the Alarm system is meant to the same job, but i dont hear it used too often outside of Peri-urban brigades........
Utilising Regional headquarters as a centre of "incident upgrading" might be worthwhile, they will have more precise knowledge of what resources can come from where...and run more effective fire cover when resources are depleted.
Noticing Region 1 HQ was open all day...they could listen into jobs directly...all the incident controller would have to do is inadvertanly call out to Region 1 HQ to upgrade the call...
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Interesting that the topic has swung to a SAFIRE&RESCUE Service, are people missing the point of the original comments? Less not more seems to be the wish of those interviewed.
While it seems like a good idea on paper, while the fire service is fighting fires (this week in Vic & NSW area classic example)who is going to do everything else?
And the topic of USAR was raised (again?) how many of your members really want to do that skill? (Which is a whole new ball game)
Now this may seem like a controversial idea - maybe two services who cover fire 1)SAFire service both full time & retained (NSWFB model or the CFA model with both paid & volunteer) & 2)Country fire service (RFS style rural & village), seems to me that would suit both camps.
Equipment would be matched to the task,training would also be matched to the task & it almost exists now except in the Adelaide fringe area.
Those in the know have realised that one service does not work with volunteers, why too much time needs to be devoted or training slips - even in Victoria CFA has stated no more rescue brigades! Both in WA & QLD rescue is not only a fire service responsibility across the state.
Finally some will say that the state can't afford it, well the question needs to be why not? The answer is quite simple 1) ESL @ the current rate was never going to work, 2)Too many fingers in the pie, 3) Money being wasted on crap (I could not believe the facilities provided at the Paradise station I thought some one was taking the piss), 4)Councils/ Communities having nil responsibilities, 5 Massive duplication in equipment, facilities and other resources.
Honestly I think some have missed the point to suggest one service.
Ready for the back lash :-D
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(RFS style rural & village)
i dont ever want to see "Dial-a-Jet" Branch's in CFS EVER. EVER. EVER :x
CFS are way ahead of RFS in Equipment...so i consider it a *POSITIVE* of the CFS. CFA have a lot of innovations that could be adopted.
Who wouldnt want a Fire and Rescue service!
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A proper rescue service? (not just RCR) About 80% of your service & the communities that need the services of a rescue squad while the fire fighters are off fighting fires (its going to get busier not quieter)
And the people who have a paid job.
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Chook
How about rather than make many specialized groups make it easier for a member of CFS or SES to do varied training across the board. ie if i want to do more rescue courses let me.
Secondly the metro area SES are brilliant at their flood/storm/non P1 stuff. But largely they can't get to any real emergency stuff until it's over. So they have a rather dull image in the eyes of lots of current emergency service workers.
If you were going to reduce the number of CFS stations that do rescue etc and use more SES this would require that there are more SES units of course. Do you propose these units would be come first responders annd be attractive for people to double wear? so we can do the extra training and other courses.
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I agree on all of your points (even the comments on metro :wink: ) & if someone wanted to be a "cross dresser" it should be very simple - no need to redo the police check, recognision of qualifications e.t.c.
Same radio system, rank structure, similar SOP's where relevant.
Don't get me wrong SESSA needs to gget it's house in order as well - why is Basic rescue a prerequeset for everything? Why complicate the simplest skill sets? E.g. we have several members who are RFS one only joined very late last year, now he is storm & flood damage qualified (he didn't need to demonstrate competency in pumps - already knew it!).
Mate I think you have got it :wink: And for those brigades who are out in the "sticks" life should be simple as. Afterall why did they join in the first place? to put out fires in their town/farm not to do USAR,vertical e.t.c.
cheers
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This thread is starting to give me a headache.
The original post suggested that a move to three services Paid/Vol Urban/Vol Rural would be a way to move forward while still keeping the separate interests of CFS and MFS intact. We now have people throwing SA Fire & Rescue service into the mix and the big budget items such as USAR which is muddying the waters.
To get things back on track and to perhaps strike the heart of the CFS/SES rescue argument, there is room in the state for all most of us. ;)
The brigades ,and at a more local level, the individual volunteers that only want to turn out to wildfires should be able to do so.
I was a big fan of the old Lvl 1, lvl 2, lvl 3 split system. Lvl 1 taught you everything that you needed to know to get on a fire truck and turnout to an emergency, even basic MVA/HAZMAT was taught. Things like pumps (which are generally specific to appliances and brigades) were taught at a Brigade level and it was not expected that a lvl 1 trained firefighter would be operating the pump, but if need be, they could. Then at lvl 2, you were provided with a more in depth look at most of your lvl 1 teachings, and got a whole afternoon on pumps!
Fitting the old courses into a single weekend was a good thing in terms of personal commitment, as well as for brigades/groups being able to run a few courses a year if need be. The move to the BFF 1 course that is huge and is run in a disjointed manner was certainly a step, if not a jump backwards. Don't get me wrong, I'd love the basic firefighting course to be weeks long and incorporate CABA, RCR and HAZMAT, but that doesn't fit 99% of brigades, nor is it practical in any way shape or form.
When people bring up Pumpers, Rescue and USAR and the fun things like that, even when I whine and moan, it needs to be understood that these circumstances and gripes only apply to a very small number of brigades. Even I forget this quite often. Take USAR for example, if the CFS took on USAR then you would only have a handful of CAT II operators, a smaller number of stations with major stockpiles of USAR gear and this would all happen to brigades that are already rescue, busy and have the associated risk and strategic placement. Cat I operators would no doubt be something that would be open to more brigades, both rescue and not, but that is more about USAR awareness than actually getting stuck into the guts of an incident.
I think that if there were Urban/Rural working parties that were allowed to deviate from the CFS line that one size fits all, you would find brigades having less to complain about, as long as real answers and solutions are provided. The complaints from rural brigades and urban brigades are not greater or lesser than the other, they are just different. Yes, the brigade with two pumpers, a rescue and a single bushfire truck may appear to be well off, but if those resources aren't able to cover the brigades risk, then their complaint is as valid as a rural brigade who have a 20 year old truck needs replacing and could do with a 14.
I still don't know what the harm in having a single service that provides Fire, Rescue, Hazmat, Storm/Tempest coverage is. Lets face it, when the brown stuff hits the fan with Storm and Tempest, the SES can't keep up and the local firies (MFS/CFS) are out helping. Why not have everything incorporated, with larger stations, more appliances and the ability for people to only do rescue, or only fight fires? As I have said before, very little firefighting equipment can be used in rescues, but a whole lot of rescue equipment can be used and is vital in firefighting operations. It makes sense to have it all available in the one package.
This idea would also be a good time to challenge the CFS/MFS idea that rescue = RCR. Go ahead and throw your hydraulic equipment at that meat grinder entrapment... enjoy it!
Might also be worth trying to introduce some CFA/MFB terminology into the system aswell like "Make Tankers 10" instead of having to rattle off brigade names and etc. Then again...the Alarm system is meant to the same job, but i don't hear it used too often outside of Peri-urban brigades........
Utilising Regional headquarters as a centre of "incident upgrading" might be worthwhile, they will have more precise knowledge of what resources can come from where...and run more effective fire cover when resources are depleted.
Noticing Region 1 HQ was open all day...they could listen into jobs directly...all the incident controller would have to do is inadvertently call out to Region 1 HQ to upgrade the call...
Yes! Lets wind back the clock! That sounds just dandy. The idea behind alarms levels is that you get a set amount and variety of appliances - if you need more, just special call them. With your old school "Make tankers 10" line of thought, don't forget that turns into a mess REALLY fast. Think about this: A fire encroaching on houses requires you to call say "3rd alarm, 3 pumpers for asset protection" OR "Make tankers 4, Make pumpers 3, Make BWC 2 and notify the DGO"
Why people still sit around requesting brigades by name I don't know. Ask Adelaide Fire/Station/Group Base for and alarm upgrade and bang, there you go. Leave it to the guys in the airconditioned office to determine who is closer. Of course if you need a specific resource, ask for "Burnside to be responded for State Hazmat"
R1HQ...we'll don't get me started. For their resource tracking ability you may as well be talking to mushy clay.
While it seems like a good idea on paper, while the fire service is fighting fires (this week in Vic & NSW area classic example)who is going to do everything else?
And the topic of USAR was raised (again?) how many of your members really want to do that skill? (Which is a whole new ball game)
Now this may seem like a controversial idea - maybe two services who cover fire 1)SAFire service both full time & retained (NSWFB model or the CFA model with both paid & volunteer) & 2)Country fire service (RFS style rural & village), seems to me that would suit both camps.
While the Fire service is out fighting fires, brigade/groups/regions need to ensure that they can still provide rescue coverage. THAT is a whole nother discussion. I know what you're saying, but in the metro area we have many more resources to play with than you dudes in the sticks and hence its easier, when common sense is used, to cover brigades that are tied up at fires.
The Vic/NSW model are pretty good, although they would need to be reworked a little to fit here.
Who wouldn't want a Fire and Rescue service!
Already got one, it's called the South Australian Country Fire Service. Although you need to define 'rescue'.
A proper rescue service? (not just RCR)
Yeah good luck getting that into the mind of the CFS. Rescue equipment = Hydraulics and a Halligan tool (that has little business being anything but a structural forcible entry tool!)
Secondly the metro area SES are brilliant at their flood/storm/non P1 stuff. But largely they can't get to any real emergency stuff until it's over. So they have a rather dull image in the eyes of lots of current emergency service workers.
You need to get out and experience the "glory" that is the Adelaide Hills/Sturt SES then.
In closing, if you have a rural brigade, then you should have a Rural Fire working group looking out for your issues and R&D. If you have an Urban brigade, you should have an Urban working group looking out for your issues and R&D. Maybe we could even add a Rescue working group to the mix.
With all this talk of one service, did we all forget about SAFECOM ? We're already there. It's only a matter of time until you see it at a ground level.
EDIT: One Service, not ONCE Service
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For once in my life I agree with Numbers....but I doubt it will happen because too many people will make sure their empire does not merged.
The big issue would be in a SAFECOM entity, how do you make sure that each service (rural fire, rescue, urban fire, usar, rcr, storm, flood, etc, etc) gets the appropriate effort ??
From looking at Western Australia and Queensland, the single entity is not working because portions of the community risk is not being covered in a satisfactory manner.
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Well put Numbers - couldn't agree more. And when some real clever people take there individual service hats off & look at it with fresh eyes & do ALL of the things you said then & maybe then the one service concept would work.
And just to clear up one point I never suggested that metro units should do any more (maybe less) than they currently do now - if SES is to survive focus on the prime reason for existence storm flood - it works everywhere else! And provide surge capability when the big one hits!
But CFS must learn a hell of a lot more about what the others two currently do & start acting a lot more openly (including down grading or closing non conpliant brigades)& honestly then I would be more than happy to see a Country Fire & Rescue service - Did I just say that? :wink:
Sadly doubt I would see it in my life time. Not in the way I would like to see it, see Andrews comment!
Anyway I think I've burnt my chance of ever rejoining SESSA :evil:
cheers
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Might also be worth trying to introduce some CFA/MFB terminology into the system aswell like "Make Tankers 10" instead of having to rattle off brigade names and etc. Then again...the Alarm system is meant to the same job, but i don't hear it used too often outside of Peri-urban brigades........
Utilising Regional headquarters as a centre of "incident upgrading" might be worthwhile, they will have more precise knowledge of what resources can come from where...and run more effective fire cover when resources are depleted.
Noticing Region 1 HQ was open all day...they could listen into jobs directly...all the incident controller would have to do is inadvertently call out to Region 1 HQ to upgrade the call...
Why people still sit around requesting brigades by name I don't know. Ask Adelaide Fire/Station/Group Base for and alarm upgrade and bang, there you go. Leave it to the guys in the airconditioned office to determine who is closer. Of course if you need a specific resource, ask for "Burnside to be responded for State Hazmat"
People request specific brigades to be responded, because since the change to Adelaide fire, and the loss of data, means the Comms people are usually asking specifically which brigade you want responded, as they often don't have the data in front of them to be able to determine the closest & most appropriate resource.
Pip
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People request specific brigades to be responded, because since the change to Adelaide fire, and the loss of data, means the Comms people are usually asking specifically which brigade you want responded, as they often don't have the data in front of them to be able to determine the closest & most appropriate resource.
Adelaide Fire don't happen to have a map with locations of CFS brigades? I guess we default to the usual "SACAD will fix it" line of thinking?
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nah, they are glued to there Tri-Screen Desktop's...with oziexplorer being the closest thing...
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nah, they are glued to there Tri-Screen Desktop's...with oziexplorer being the closest thing...
Great, sounds like we have a better mapping capability in our station. Here I was trying to use common sense again. Should've learnt that lesson years ago.
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If we are looking at the Paid/Vol Urban/Vol Rural scenario only, what would you classify Roxby, Mooka, Woomera, Coober and the like. We have no rural threats, our only jobs are AFAs, structures, MVAs etc. (oh and maybe the once in a blue moon taskforce we may get asked for crew)??????
Out to you SAFF crew.
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Can't agree more with you JC but to give my 2 cents worth to your problems the answer could be give them two appliance one for rural jobs so that they can go off on the deployments and the second one for their core activities either MVA's, and structures.
Now to be a little bit daring the brigade in these areas if no SAAS service is available give them some better training to stabilise a patient till SAAS arrives and maybe a bit of rescue equipment to support the SASES till they arrive.
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And are some in your service (maybe the silent majority)hinting that they want to be more like the other Rural/country fire service & leave the more complicated stuff to someone else? Interesting NSWRFS aren't even allowed on a roof & no volunteers are allowed to operate over the speed limit & most like it that way.
cheers
I just thought you should know: NSWRFS firefighters are permitted to work on roofs at storm damage and similar incidents if they have the SWR (Safe Work on Roofs) qualification and at structure fires if VF (Village Firefighter) qualified.
In addition, there is no legal difference (Australian Road Rules as adopted by NSW Road Transport Act) in the exemptions afforded to volunteer versus paid emergency service workers when responding in an emergency vehicle, ie there IS an exemption from complying to posted speed limits. In addition the NSWRFS imposes no additional restrictions via SOP's with regard to posted speed limits.
So given your initial two statements are incorrect, I'm having some trouble with the 'most like it that way' bit. :?
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Not according to the State Rescue board Act re:- speed limits.
The work on roof thing - That was from RFS members, as most around here have not got that qualification - at least not here! That is why they wanted to know if the stuff learnt on SES courses was recognised so it could be transferable.
Thanks for the info though - obviously different areas of the state are doing things slightly different then (surprise surprise).
So you don't like the separation of skill sets into different services?
Or would you like to see one huge service doing everything?
I'm interested in your thoughts
cheers
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Chook.
Are you saying that a Rescue Service Act over-rides both national and state traffic legislation, not to mention the specific fire service legislation that applies in NSW?
Local hierarchies attempting to make rules that are not supported by legislation, well we've never seen that before, either. [/irony] If such local rules are being promulgated in the part of NSW with which you're familiar... try finding out exactly where the authority to make the decision comes from.
Too many managers have delusions of grandeur.
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Life on the farm is back to normal, with the new blackdog torementing the old chook! :wink: :-) :lol: :-D :evil:
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:-D fair call Blackdog, if it is as you say, I will have to agree with your statement of fact (as we are not a rescue resource don't have to follow that act :wink: )
Yep agree with your comment re: management but haven't really struck it in the Premier state - yet except for the "we won't recognise your storm qualification or your General rescue either" even though I lead a team in 2007 Newcastle storm emergency & hold National qualifications in General Rescue & RCR. No matter One has been soughted out & redoing the storm course wasn't bad either!
Nah Jaff - I'm always ready to be corrected - if I'm wrong of course!
Remember the old adage "fight the fights that are worthwhile & fight the fights you can win - but don't fight every fight cause you just sound like a DH"
Here is the section I was quoting:-
"SRB STATE RESCUE POLICY – 3rd Edition 6 June 2007
11 STATE RESCUE POLICY – Version 3.1 11
2.07 Volunteer Rescue Vehicles - Exemptions for drivers of emergency vehicles
The Road Transport (Safety and Traffic Management)(Road Rules) Regulation
1999 do not provide exemptions from the provisions of the Australian Road rules
for volunteer rescue vehicles. Specifically, drivers of volunteer rescue vehicles
are to comply with all road signs, traffic lights and posted speed limits, even when proceeding to a rescue incident or emergency situation."
As the peak body for Rescue in NSW - thought it actually counted :wink:
sorry for the error - still interested in your opinion on the current situation in NSW Blackdog I find some of it confusing(have heard RFS people are looking at CFS for ideas)
cheers
cheers
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Before we even look at 3 Fire Services lets get the one were in sorted out first :-P
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yeah, filtered load more to do before CFS is ready for join a unified fire service with the MFS. Attitudes, paperwork, logistics of it, etc...
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I tend to think that process of changing to One Service would be the impetus (in attitude and finances) to bring about the changes you are looking for
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http://samfs.sa.gov.au/site/home.jsp
the SAMFS website seems to be incorrect lol...anyone else seeing what im seeing?
where as http://mfs.sa.gov.au/site/home.jsp MFS works...
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http://samfs.sa.gov.au/site/home.jsp
the SAMFS website seems to be incorrect lol...anyone else seeing what im seeing?
where as http://mfs.sa.gov.au/site/home.jsp MFS works...
Yep SES :-D
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WOOPS!!! I'm sure it will be fixed soon :-D
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Life on the farm is back to normal, with the new blackdog torementing the old chook! :wink: :-) :lol: :-D :evil:
<grins>
This old dog usually leaves that to the pups.
Too busy keeping the sheep in line ....... assuming no-one's silly enough to take that personally.
Dog.
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:-D fair call Blackdog, if it is as you say, I will have to agree with your statement of fact (as we are not a rescue resource don't have to follow that act :wink: )
Yep agree with your comment re: management but haven't really struck it in the Premier state - yet except for the "we won't recognise your storm qualification or your General rescue either" even though I lead a team in 2007 Newcastle storm emergency & hold National qualifications in General Rescue & RCR. No matter One has been soughted out & redoing the storm course wasn't bad either!
Chook.
Last time that I read the book, NSWRFS drivers were entitled to the exemptions applied to Emergency Services vehicles. However it is limited to "urgent duty" and that generally means a demonstrated threat to life and health, or a potentially serious threat to property. Districts are able to trump this, be refusing to authorise " response"(urgent duty driving) and instructing drivers to "proceed" (normal driving). I know of one district (in the Sydney basin, they're not in the real world there) that limited their drivers to 90kph.
I think somebody should remind them that the RFS is an "emergency" service. <snort>
A cynic would point out that the majority of volunteers have only a hazy idea of the regulations governing their services. Add to that the fact that many of the paid administrators don't have a background in formal training in those same regulations, and you end up with a bunch of differing interpretations made to suit different agenda. Not to mention some very odd ideas of who is actually to blame for any unpleasantness as the buck gets passed with more enthusiasm than accuracy.
If you ever do find yourself in a fight, don't stuff about. Get serious by the source documents. Get the legislation, the regulations and whatever else determines who gets to do what. Too many decisions are enacted as bluff and maintained through inertia and misdirected blame. Do your homework.
As for recognition of your quals.
The book says that you are entitled to Recognition of Prior Learning. Any qual should have a list of competencies, and if your current qual has similar competencies , you can apply to have these considered.
The book also says that you can apply for Recognition of Current Competency. Which means that they must offer you a challenge test if you desire to prove that you can do the job.
Most districts tend to default to running everyone through the standard training, because that's what's easiest for them. Often it's the best and easiest thing for you, too, but you do have alternatives if you wish to push for them. At least in theory. [/irony]
Back into my kennel.... Dog.
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I tend to think that process of changing to One Service would be the impetus (in attitude and finances) to bring about the changes you are looking for
The Taswegian experience has not been positive. Personal report from down there is that all the admin jobs go to paid firies. The admin staff then allocate all of the "interesting" jobs to their mates in the salaried stations, while the volunteers get the boring work.
That's one example.
Anything that really needs to be fixed, can be fixed without amalgamation if the political will is present. If it isn't, amalgamation won't fix it.The less pleasant outcomes can be as mentioned above, while SOP is the creation of another layer of bureaucracy, while things carry on as normal. (For your local value of "normal")
If you're panting for a change of badges and letter-heads, without material benefit to the troops on the ground... then by all means go for it. Not place in that cat-fight for me....
Dog.
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Excellent response, have experience with legislation & the interpretation (payed job), & well aware of how individuals tend to "go to ground" when things look grey.
Also know the RPL stuff (qualified trainer assessor), our regional training officer has been excellent in pointing out to certain individuals in the service that as far as National competencies they have no choice, bit harder with non National stuff (SA is a bit behind in that area & NSW lives by it).
Have to admit though that neither of the states are perfect - it would be nice if they could learn from each other a bit more (SA could learn heaps about how to run general rescue training for example).
But yeap agree with your comments though (not unique to NSW either :wink: )
And I tend to agree with you re: one service (thats why I used NSW or Vic as examples)
cheers
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Here is the section I was quoting:-
"SRB STATE RESCUE POLICY – 3rd Edition 6 June 2007
11 STATE RESCUE POLICY – Version 3.1 11
Policy does not equal law.
The exemptions are laid out in each state's enactment of the national traffic regs.
Ar*e-covering by managers is exactly that.
cheers
AJ
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Quite true AJ - but breach of policy will get you "de-listed", ergo you don't respond anymore!
It's different here, two VRA units & a couple of SES & they are the ones I know about - SES was voluntry VRA was forced.
Imagine if this was enforced properly in SA, certainly would get rid of the cowboys :-D
Anyway this is taking this thread away from the main point so time to bow out :wink: cheers
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Change Management its called ;)
Hang on there Zippy don't paint all rural / isolated Brigades as something as dinosaurs that still do it the old way and don't adapt to change. Some of us out here in the sticks thrive on changing and improving things for the Brigade and the community so that we can provide the best possible service to the community that we serve.
Three Fire brigades will be the wrong way to go.
Spot on no need for three services then again the Volunteer is still sitting next to me waiting for me to read when I get boared here at work so I really can't comment till I read the article in question.
Can't wait for a 34P to turn up on our Brigade door step.
Amen to that, we'll take a 34P out here to. (If the CFS would give us one)
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:-D fair call Blackdog, if it is as you say, I will have to agree with your statement of fact (as we are not a rescue resource don't have to follow that act :wink: )
Yep agree with your comment re: management but haven't really struck it in the Premier state - yet except for the "we won't recognise your storm qualification or your General rescue either" even though I lead a team in 2007 Newcastle storm emergency & hold National qualifications in General Rescue & RCR. No matter One has been soughted out & redoing the storm course wasn't bad either!
Nah Jaff - I'm always ready to be corrected - if I'm wrong of course!
Remember the old adage "fight the fights that are worthwhile & fight the fights you can win - but don't fight every fight cause you just sound like a DH"
Here is the section I was quoting:-
"SRB STATE RESCUE POLICY – 3rd Edition 6 June 2007
11 STATE RESCUE POLICY – Version 3.1 11
2.07 Volunteer Rescue Vehicles - Exemptions for drivers of emergency vehicles
The Road Transport (Safety and Traffic Management)(Road Rules) Regulation
1999 do not provide exemptions from the provisions of the Australian Road rules
for volunteer rescue vehicles. Specifically, drivers of volunteer rescue vehicles
are to comply with all road signs, traffic lights and posted speed limits, even when proceeding to a rescue incident or emergency situation."
As the peak body for Rescue in NSW - thought it actually counted :wink:
sorry for the error - still interested in your opinion on the current situation in NSW Blackdog I find some of it confusing(have heard RFS people are looking at CFS for ideas)
cheers
cheers
The reference to 'volunteer rescue vehicles' actually refers to rescue volunteers private vehicles. SES and VRA vehicles are 'emergency vehicles' as defined by the ARR and respond - that's why they have lights and sirens.
The SRB wording is not very clear, and I can see how the misinformed might interpret it as restricting volunteer emergency vehicles when in fact it does not.
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Nice one Whiteknight - then as the informed maybe you can inform the board to clarify that part of the policy :wink: But as you said yourself thats not how it reads.
Thanks for clearing that up cheers
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Apart from using beaters and yellow beacons, is there anything wrong with this? CFS are already trying to streamline the BFF1 Package into a quick Rural Firefighting 101, moreso than it already is (if thats possible), if people only want to deal with rural incidents, then give them a 34, some hose, some lvl 1 gear and let them go wild!
That's fine until we have a hayshed go up or worst still a house fire in town.
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Maybe the problem lies elsewhere maybe it has nonething to do with a BFF1 like it predecessor it to did not prepare a person for the full gamete of tasks which can be performed by a rural Brigade from the structure fire, provide assistance at road accidents or a refuse fire or what ever it may be, it come down to training. How do we solve this dilemma keep the BFF1 but re-badge it to a better name i.e. induction and rural fire fighting. Then have the specialized courses but not attached to a SFEC that is not reviewed regularly and is near impossible to change. We need to have a regular review dates that allow 360 degree feedback so that all level of the organisation is singing from the same page.
Yes we should collapse at least two services into one; As being a members of both with two pagers and two uniforms can be a bit confusing when working with the same group but in a different uniform with a different emblem is rather silly in my humble opinion. Both organisation want the same thing and try to compete at achieving the same thing to me its a no brainer just amalgamate the two and let HQ Adelaide sort out the name.
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Having worked with the MFS guys for a week in Victoria and from the way we where all talking its time for ONE FIRE SERVICE,We can make this happen if we want but i am all for it and i knwo that those on strikes who have been working with teh MFS agree..Bring it on I say ....