SA Firefighter
General Discussion => Country Fire Service => Topic started by: bert on September 07, 2011, 09:47:45 AM
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Thought I would let you all know about the firefighter response system, we have just installed at the Mt Barker fire station, it’s an excellent system, the member simply presses a button on their phone, it’s a toll free number, don't have to talk to anyone and it logs your name on the computer at the station as responding (takes all of 5 seconds to do). Has already helped with managing the staffing on our trucks. Instead of wondering if 2 drivers are coming, or BA or RCR crew or in fact enough to actually send 2 trucks.
The developer has worked with us for some time now, adapting it to the Australian network/fire service. The website is http://www.advancedfrs.com/. (http://www.advancedfrs.com/.)
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how much does it cost?
their website says $65 per month but implies that's flexible (I suspect it's way out of my brigade's budget though)
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It depends on how many job your Brigade does per year and the amount of vollies you have using the system. I contacted FFRS and they said they are finalising costs for Australia. Funny since they have already sold a system here!
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Nice idea.... although I can see a problem with needing 24 hour internet access...
Pip
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What a great idea, no more standing out the front wondering if anyone is actually coming or not !!
What a great sense of initiative from the Mt Barker crew.
I would think the reason for not being able to give a fixed price is that the Mt Barker one is the first one in the system. But still $65 is only $780 for the year, not a major expense really.
Regarding the internet, yes it might not work for everyone, but I can see it being a major advantage for a lot of brigades, and the busier they are the more cost effective, if you only did say a dozen calls a year you probably wouldn't bother as it would be costing you $65 a call!
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I'm not sure if I'm understanding this correct? Please correct me if I'm wrong but.......
Has the Mt Barker crew implemented an operational system that only they seem to have?
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Interesting setup, the only problem at this stage, from the web site, is that the server is setup in the USA and all data must travel to/from the US including the phone call ACK's. If overseas internet lines are down or congested you are OFF LINE in real time with your system.
The other day I sat in on a presentation of WebEOC, at totally web based emergency operational software package that is used by a number of interstate agencies and throughout the USA including the military and is one that is being looked at for SA emergency agencies use. The System would be a totally local server setup with all input/output data being web based you can even access it with your smart phones or Ipads.
OldOne.
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Its ok if you want to waste money, our brigade we always know whos around and whos not and are normally rolling in 5-6 minutes. dont see the point for us. some brigades it may be useful.
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I can see it not being a particularly useful for brigades like my own - small number of firefighters, and fairly low call rate. I know generally who is around and who isn't.
But for a larger & busier brigade, I can see advantages in knowing who is responding to any given call.
Pip
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I could definatly see the benefit for our brigade with this system,, Reasonable callout rate to justify it and the fact a number of members live within 2 mins of the station and a larger number living 5-8 mins away,, usually being one of the first there it would be great to know who is coming and if we have enough for second truck.
The cost however may be the issue, it could stretch funds for other things we have or may need.
Well done Barker for finding a system that works for them
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Any brigade could benefit from the tool.
Whether or not it would be financially viable for brigades is another thing.
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Remember the ongoing costs is in US dollars so any change in exchange rates and you could be looking at up to $1000 per year if the dollar goes below 90c in the future.
Then multiply that by 100+ brigades and you could have a 100K a year budget costing. With that sort of money you could contract a custom package run locally with no real ongoing running cost in a year at most two.
For an offshore remote access system with an unknown monthly/yearly running costs due to the dollar exchange I think it would never be approved for wide scale local usage. Also it would never interface with SACAD etc.
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So is it right to think that this "service" that is being provided to the community has each brigade/station/crew? doing its own thing?
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So is it right to think that this "service" that is being provided to the community has each brigade/station/crew? doing its own thing?
I would call it an "In house service" rather than a direct service to the community. No impact to the community, only a logistical in house tool for the Brigade. Was TIMS a Brigade doing it's own thing? Look how that turned out...absolutely brilliant, with more than several stations adopting the system, not just of the CFS variety either. :wink:
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brigades or groups using their own initative and doing stuff themselves is the only way any new stuff like this finds it's way into the CFS. If a brigade can come up with a system that they find beneficial to use then good on them.
you seem to have some sort of objection or concern Mr Flyonthewall?
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It has a massive impact on the service to the community !!
IT HELPS THEM MANAGE THEIR RESOURCES SO THEY CAN GET HELP TO THE COMMUNITY QUICKER WITH THE APPROPRIATE CREWS....
As for the impact on the CFS, who cares, it doesn't impact them, its a terrific management tool, and for a large town with almost every type of risk there is they need to be proactive in managing their resources.
Others could benefit to, I think those that think its a waste of time and money are looking at it the wrong way.
Anyway, how did this turn from passing on an idea to
So is it right to think that this "service" that is being provided to the community has each brigade/station/crew? doing its own thing?
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What a great sense of initiative from the Mt Barker crew.
I would think the reason for not being able to give a fixed price is that the Mt Barker one is the first one in the system. But still $65 is only $780 for the year, not a major expense really.
You should probably give some credit to Morphette Vale for investigating this some time ago as part of the TIM system... ;)
http://www.safirefighter.com/boards/index.php?topic=1754.25 (http://www.safirefighter.com/boards/index.php?topic=1754.25)
The idea of integrating it with TIM was also free for people already using it.
Having said that, the FRS looks pretty good (especially taking into account the rostering stuff). I look forward to seeing the final cost they come up with.
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What are the major differences between TIMS and FRS, other than offshore processing ?
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What are the major differences between TIMS and FRS, other than offshore processing ?
FRS is a remotely hosted online solution, so anyone can access it from anywhere, (with the right password). This is a big advantage because it means duty officers (or even CRD) can check the system from anywhere. Of course, it also means there are more points of failure, as it relies on multiple networks to operate. The RFS system also allows for rostering (I believe) and the ability to call in and mark yourself as unavailable (so a duty officer can easily see who's in area).
The TIM system on the other hand is fully based at the local fire station. It attaches to a scanner or fire station interface to identify local responses and display them. It cannot be accessed from outside, and is dependent on a single computer. The ability to call in as responding is done by using caller ID on a phone line attached to a modem on that computer, so the system is essentially free.
The two are coming from different directions though, and fullfill different roles - the FRS is directed towards personnel management (who is available and who is responding) and TIMS is more about turnout management (what you're responding to and where it is).
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No problem here, I think it is a great idea, as has been mentioned, the trucks will roll quicker - this can only be a good thing.
I just find that it is not right to have one brigade using this system when it is clear that it would benefit all brigades regardless of callout stats and funds. In my opinion this would be an 'operational' modification to part of CFS turnout procedure, a suggestion for the better which I would have thought would be passing through a chain of command prior to being implemented............not just one brigade doing it because they can.
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I understand but someone has to try it and get the notice to others that it exists, the very fact it's on here amongst other areas is a sign that they want to get it out there?!
I dont understand how you think it's a modification to the turnout system ? Nothing has changed, pager still goes, page still gets acknowledged and they still book mobile on 124, they just know who is coming and manage their crewing rather than hope for the best. Also, how do you know it hasn't gone through region? Maybe they weren't interested ?
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pager still goes, page still gets acknowledged and they still book mobile on 124,
Do you mean 'they' as in the MT Barker crew or 'they' being a general term for all firefighters getting and responding to a call? - I am an outsider looking in obviously!
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No problem here, I think it is a great idea, as has been mentioned, the trucks will roll quicker - this can only be a good thing.
I just find that it is not right to have one brigade using this system when it is clear that it would benefit all brigades regardless of callout stats and funds. In my opinion this would be an 'operational' modification to part of CFS turnout procedure, a suggestion for the better which I would have thought would be passing through a chain of command prior to being implemented............not just one brigade doing it because they can.
FYI Our Group officer did involve region, prior to the trial of the system....
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as a tool it offers some benefits I think, especially I guess for some where members have a bit of a distance to travel to the Station, although to be honest I'd much rather be sorting out directions/pre-plans or Comms in the truck, than being in the station looking at a computer waiting to update. Sort out a blue tooth feed to the Appliance Tablet PC and I'd be more interested.
Someone will ask I'm sure, in these times of fiscal economising, if you have $800ish a year to spend on such stuff, whether or not you need that $800 in your operating budget for the year to start with. If you want to fundraise for it.....I guess theres no real objection (apart from the whole subsidising a state Emergency service thing).
Well done on the initiative however....shame it couldnt come from those paid to show it
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For info the TIM version of this is just about ready for CFS use.
Although it doesn't look as fancy or have remote access capabilities, the basic function is the same - it will let you know who is responding.
Also, the infrastucture for TIM is currently being rolled out through the MFS metro stations in preparation for SACAD, soon all metro stations will be using it and there will be no more dispatching on VHF.
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Clear as mud!
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Clear as mud!
Good to see people explaining things when clarification has been sought!!!
99.9% (-ish this isn't an official statistic!) of the time, a CFS brigade will receive a response via a page from adelaide fire.
That page has to be acknowledged by each responding brigade within 6 mins or they will default. This can be done via phone or radio.
Once a crew has assembled and the appliance is ready to/leaving the station that appliance is to "book mobile" that is advise adelaide fire on that appliances response on their regional talkgroup. 124 for R1, 093 for R2, etc.
The FRS theoretically fits in between the turnout page and the appliance leaving the station but only at a local level. What it allows is the first 1 or 2 members or officers arriving at the station to have an idea of who else is responding and a general idea of how long they might be (assume they're responding from home or work and you may know how long that takes.).
Neither the FRS or TIMS should affect the way a brigade responds, just provide information on crewing and personnel...
Hope this helps!!
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It also allows for correct crewing, so for example you might take the first 4or 5 and go out the door, and have no idea who else is coming, but that first truck might have 2 drivers, so the second truck can't go - seen it and heard it on the radio many times "blah blah 24, we can't respond as we don't have a driver for the second truck"
Be interesting to hear how the trial goes after a few weeks.
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Thankyou JJD, your clarification helps me understand - as I had mentioned, I am an outsider looking in. :-)
I have also noticed that this is a trial, which was not mentioned in the original post. I assume that the system will be given a timeframe before it is implemented, this is of course only if it works. What I find strange is that it appears to me that if one brigade cannot afford it or don't think they need it because of a low call rate then why have it! I realise that this is a money thing that induvidual brigades may or may not have to spend, so will the CFS management fund this or will it still be up to the induvidual brigades?
Aren't the CFS always saying that they want to be accepted as a more professional service?
I have worked alongside CFS crews that are lacking the correct personnel for the required job (eg. non BA qualified at domestic fire incidents, entry control managed by new CFS personnel - with MFS supervising) and I can definately see where this system will help get the right crew for the incident.
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It's not a trial. If Brigades want the system they purchase it and use it.
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What I find strange is that it appears to me that if one brigade cannot afford it or don't think they need it because of a low call rate then why have it!
I come from a small brigade, with a low call rate (only about 40 calls a year, and not many of them during week day)s
As the Captain, I generally know who is around during week days - a few members work locally, one is retired, and there are a few shift workers and students - so I really only need to keep a track of around 7 people (which is also made easier because two of them live in my household!).
My members tell me when they are going away on holidays, or when they are on AL and around during the day.
So on any given weekday, I have a pretty good idea of who is around, and their skill levels.
At $60 per month, plus the internet connection that we don't currently have, the system is a very expensive way of telling me what I pretty much know already.
For busy brigades, with higher membership levels, higher calls rates and additional skill responsibilities (eg RCR, Hazmat etc) it is much harder to keep track of who is available, and what skill levels those responding have. A system that can quickly provide that information to the OIC can be useful.
This type of system, like may things in CFS, is not, and should not be, a one size fits all.
Pip
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I can see how it may benifit some CFS crews but for reginal MFS it would niot be required, you know when four people rock up at the station you can go because everyone has rcr, ba, hazmat, CFS should do the same, not qualified, dont ride.
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I can see how it may benifit some CFS crews but for reginal MFS it would niot be required, you know when four people rock up at the station you can go because everyone has rcr, ba, hazmat, CFS should do the same, not qualified, dont ride.
Amen to that, I can't get any training I want because I am a part of a very dedicated well trained brigade, great for the community but not so much for Johnny come lately's like me, and by that I mean not having 10 years under by belt. But that's all a topic for another thread.
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It would be extremely useful for regional MFS, 99% of them struggle to get more than 1 truck out the door in a reasonable time, so this will let you know what if any are crew are coming, if a senior or officer is coming, and might mean a correct response is sent rather than 1 truck with a crew of 3 or having to wait 20 mins for a senior to come so you can respond. Also might mean you have to default....Also with the high turnover of retained staff you might have several crew that aren't full trained eg have only done the basic hose and ladders course so might only be allowed to ride as a 5th crew member.
Yes it does happen!
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My brigade has mobile phone at the station on permanently when we get a call if your responding you ring the number and a hang up first person at the station checks for missed calls and knows who's coming. Cost $0.00 to run simple fail safe system.
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Excellent if you have mobile phone coverage...... bad luck in my Group where more than half the brigades have no mobile phone coverage, or where the members are there is no coverage, so they can't ring!!
As I mentioned before, these systems cannot be one size fits all - but if something works for your brigade, then go with it!!
Pip
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My brigade has mobile phone at the station on permanently when we get a call if your responding you ring the number and a hang up first person at the station checks for missed calls and knows who's coming. Cost $0.00 to run simple fail safe system.
Fail safe till the first major incident where everyone else in your area is on a mobile and the tower is congested. Or there is no tower because it fell over during all the shaking of a big earthquake. Mobile technology is great, but a long, LONG way from fail safe!
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Flametree if we were to have such an event the paging system would be up the creek as well.
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Flametree if we were to have such an event the paging system would be up the creek as well.
If such an event were to happen many of us would be heading to the station, page or no page. (ensuring the family is safe first of course)
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Bert or anyone else from Mt Barker...
Interested to hear how the FFRS is working now that it has been in use for over 12 months? I believe that Nairne and/or Littlehampton have also adopted it?
What are the actual operating costs of the system?