SA Firefighter
General Discussion => Country Fire Service => Topic started by: 2468 on August 25, 2008, 02:36:28 PM
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Hey all.
I did a course outside of the cfs courses, which i funded myself.
The trainer was the most qualified person for the course... but he was crap. I have done a similar course with someone who did not have a qualifications list as long as his arm but had done real life rescue and the course was twice as good and I got much better training...
I have friends who have done courses with a south australian company interstate whos also a sacfs supplier and they told me they can remember the instructors telling the group how qualified they were... however they had never conducted a real rescue... only training...
wat are your thoughts boys and girls... is experienced trainer better than a course bunny (someone who does lots of courses... but thats all)
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I'll take real life experiance anyday. Anyone can teach material from a book, but it takes personal experiance to be able to add a further dimension to the training material.
Especailly in the CFS where we get given so much 'by the book' teaching, and yet very few of the instructors are able to expand upon the topics as they have little, if any real life experiance. Simple things like conducting S&R or cutting pillars on cars where technique that is different to 'the book' canbe very helpful.
At the same time, trainers need to be careful of accidentally delving into advanced techniques with students on courses are meant to be about the basics.
It is interesting to note that with experiance the best way to do things sometimes appears to fly in the face of both the book and SOP's
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Yes I have found that with some CFS courses, the instructors know all the lingo and can teach it but have very little knowledge of down the street in practice scenarios. What I like to call the creased turnout gear people.
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I would have to agree on that,I was at a course/workshop and this guy had more ticks and paperwork than any other trainer I had seen..I asked him a few question and he said that he had never been in the fire or rescue service and that all his training came from doing courses and from going to workshop's....I then asked him how the hell he could sit back and say you would/could/do it this way and the patient/victim would be released faster and better...He failed to mention that its team work and you need to work with the ambulance service,So I guess you can have all the paperwork in the world and have no life experiences and still get a job in training and do a crap job....Few other who where there from other service's also disagreed with him the whole day...
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This is happening in everything. I was offered to be given a bit more training in a course I had only just done to then become a trainer. I couldn't believe that was the way they wanted to go. I had no experience, had only just undertaken the training myself and they were going to let me loose training other people. I can remember when chainsaw training first came in for vineyard workers and everyone trotted along to the TAFE trainer to learn all about chainsaws - the fella taking the course trotted out with a very tiny chainsaw (it took me a while to work out it was a real one and not a realistic kids toy for the toy shop) and proceeded to instruct, he had no idea and was being paid huge money to deliver this course.
I will take experience over paper work only anyday. And even better experience with some paperwork.
Any trainers care to comment??
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Have you not heard of the saying "Those who cannot do, teach!"?
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"Those who cannot do, teach!"?
And those that cannot teach, get into research...
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"Those who cannot do, teach!"?
And those that cannot teach, get into research...
I thought it was those you can't teach, teach teachers?
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"Those who cannot do, teach!"?
And those that cannot teach, get into research...
I thought it was those you can't teach, teach teachers?
Those who can, Do, those who can't, teach, those who can't teach, teach teachers and those who can't teach teachers, write teachers books :mrgreen:
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Hmm just thought I'd see what was everyone elses opinion..
Did a course with another company where the trainers weren't fireys, coppers or ambos and was twice as good as the ones where u get the fireys just relying on there cfs or mfs titles...
and the company where they weren't fireys were internally trained and worked privately... personally liked alot more cause they weren't bound by any service ideas and called spade a spade...
really annoys me when we get some old firey who has never done something in their life... only done the course again and again but never done... ie rescue stuff from height above 20m...
I'm in an area where we would have to do a rescue well above that... and the trainers we got just said "well you wouldn't really do a rescue from that height... i mean you would have to call the ses or mfs rope teams in" but we don't have the ses or mfs always around do we!!!! :|
and even worse we had some company say they could bring some american guy over cause he's an expert...!!! then showed some dvd where he flips upside down to do a rescue, then use a mini pulley system... then the trainer stood there and said how it so fantastic (we all wanted to laugh, then realised this was OUR lives we're playing with)
also saw how some berated another filtered on here bout difference between american and australia fireys... and so true!!! if we have trainers bringing americans over to train then WTF! know people who went to their courses privately and they were scared to use the techniques cause it was all throw at them to learn...
Id like to see the trainers see some of the types of rescues we actually do... then write a program to match our needs... and the AQTF (australian quality training framework)
(its sad how we all have confidence in the equipment... but sometimes not the training)
Scared SA Firey
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Hmm just thought I'd see what was everyone elses opinion..
Did a course with another company where the trainers weren't fireys, coppers or ambos and was twice as good as the ones where u get the fireys just relying on there cfs or mfs titles...
and the company where they weren't fireys were internally trained and worked privately... personally liked alot more cause they weren't bound by any service ideas and called spade a spade...
really annoys me when we get some old firey who has never done something in their life... only done the course again and again but never done... ie rescue stuff from height above 20m...
I'm in an area where we would have to do a rescue well above that... and the trainers we got just said "well you wouldn't really do a rescue from that height... i mean you would have to call the ses or mfs rope teams in" but we don't have the ses or mfs always around do we!!!! :|
and even worse we had some company say they could bring some american guy over cause he's an expert...!!! then showed some dvd where he flips upside down to do a rescue, then use a mini pulley system... then the trainer stood there and said how it so fantastic (we all wanted to laugh, then realised this was OUR lives we're playing with)
also saw how some berated another filtered on here bout difference between american and australia fireys... and so true!!! if we have trainers bringing americans over to train then filtered! know people who went to their courses privately and they were scared to use the techniques cause it was all throw at them to learn...
Id like to see the trainers see some of the types of rescues we actually do... then write a program to match our needs... and the AQTF (australian quality training framework)
(its sad how we all have confidence in the equipment... but sometimes not the training)
Scared SA Firey
WTF how did I get dragged into this thread :evil:
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also saw how some berated another filtered on here bout difference between american and australia fireys... and so true!!! if we have trainers bringing americans over to train then filtered! know people who went to their courses privately and they were scared to use the techniques cause it was all throw at them to learn...
Id like to see the trainers see some of the types of rescues we actually do... then write a program to match our needs... and the AQTF (australian quality training framework)
No use writing off people and their expertise merely because they're "Americans" the Yanks have a more diverse fire and rescue community than we do, and you wouldn't tar all Aussie Firies with the same brush would you?
Perhaps rather than have people write a program specific to your needs, you need to look at choosing the right course/company. If the trainers are going to be instructing you in a discipline, yet tell you "You don't need to know that, call the SES/MFS" then I would have tossed them then and there. Not to mention creating a difference between <20 and >20m I was pretty sure vertical rescue was vertical rescue. Same principles - different rope length.
I hope you don't go back to that company again...
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"Those who cannot do, teach!"?
And those that cannot teach, get into research...
those who cannot do, teach. Those who can neither do nor teach - become management in the public service!
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Hmm just thought I'd see what was everyone elses opinion..
Did a course with another company where the trainers weren't fireys, coppers or ambos and was twice as good as the ones where u get the fireys just relying on there cfs or mfs titles...
and the company where they weren't fireys were internally trained and worked privately... personally liked alot more cause they weren't bound by any service ideas and called spade a spade...
really annoys me when we get some old firey who has never done something in their life... only done the course again and again but never done... ie rescue stuff from height above 20m...
I'm in an area where we would have to do a rescue well above that... and the trainers we got just said "well you wouldn't really do a rescue from that height... i mean you would have to call the ses or mfs rope teams in" but we don't have the ses or mfs always around do we!!!! :|
and even worse we had some company say they could bring some american guy over cause he's an expert...!!! then showed some dvd where he flips upside down to do a rescue, then use a mini pulley system... then the trainer stood there and said how it so fantastic (we all wanted to laugh, then realised this was OUR lives we're playing with)
also saw how some berated another filtered on here bout difference between american and australia fireys... and so true!!! if we have trainers bringing americans over to train then filtered! know people who went to their courses privately and they were scared to use the techniques cause it was all throw at them to learn...
Id like to see the trainers see some of the types of rescues we actually do... then write a program to match our needs... and the AQTF (australian quality training framework)
(its sad how we all have confidence in the equipment... but sometimes not the training)
Scared SA Firey
Wha you say K...I no speaky Espanol
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.....
Id like to see the trainers see some of the types of rescues we actually do... then write a program to match our needs... and the AQTF (australian quality training framework)
.....
Training modules already exist within SES. I believe the same training has been given to some MFS, SAAS, etc as part of USAR. Years ago some aspects were given to RSPCA.
The sharing of training resources happens now to a certain extent. For example, I have completed AIIMS level 1 (CFS run) & Leadership (CFS & SES run).
I hope the services will increase the share of the TRK's, trainers & assesors. But that will depend on $$$$ & volunteer resources.
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This isn't SAPC again is it?
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Trainers, sure id like to have some PT time with a Personal Trainer every week!
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Trainers, sure id like to have some PT time with a Personal Trainer every week!
..especially if she's under 25, blonde and leggy with a nice pair of chesticles!
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*chuckles*
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When it comes to courses/trainers being available it really depends on how many people can you get to fill the vacant spaces and how much in demand or popular the training is
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But a good trainer can make any topic interesting.....
Pip
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Trainers, sure id like to have some PT time with a Personal Trainer every week!
..especially if she's under 25, blonde and leggy with a nice pair of chesticles!
Possible job for PIP :wink: :evil:
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:-DOr a good looking trainer can keep you interested or at least awake for the whole course (I do remember paying particular attention for a whole module one time because the person taking it had the nicest butt out :wink:)
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Did a course with another company where the trainers weren't fireys, coppers or ambos
[/qoute]
ok... you liked being trained by people, who dont actually get out there and do the job "in real life" [as such]
but;
really annoys me when we get some old firey who has never done something in their life... only done the course again and again but never done... ie rescue stuff from height above 20m...
you hate it when the trainer has no experience?
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:-DOr a good looking trainer can keep you interested or at least awake for the whole course (I do remember paying particular attention for a whole module one time because the person taking it had the nicest butt out :wink:)
I bet it was BFF1 and it actually was the assessor not the trainer you where perving on. Probably the same as at the Drags too
LMGDFAO
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Damn, I need to learn to be more suttle in my old age and not get caught so easy! But gee it was worth it!!!!!
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Damn, I need to learn to be more suttle in my old age and not get caught so easy! But gee it was worth it!!!!!
Its not your fault your suttle as a brick. :mrgreen:
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Guys and gals I am a instructor, i agree with some of the comments posted, some instructors can teach and some can't but to suggest that those who can;t do teach is a large pile of steamy stuff.
If a few more of you gave it a go then those of us whom already instruct could have a rest and maybe we could get rid of those so called under performing instructors.