SA Firefighter

General Discussion => SASES => Topic started by: CFS_Firey on September 26, 2006, 05:03:50 PM

Title: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: CFS_Firey on September 26, 2006, 05:03:50 PM
OK, some SES guys and girls on this forum would like the other emergency services to better understand the SES and what they do.
This thread is an opportunity for the SES to talk about what they do, so we can better understand them! (Simple eh?)

So anyone can ask questions, and the SES can answer them... I'll start with a few...




Please keep this thread as informative as possible with no put downs or anti-SES comments (I'll edit your posts if you're mean!)...
Thanks
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Toast on September 26, 2006, 05:10:53 PM
Are the SES similar to the CFS in terms of a few *very* busy, multi skilled 'units', and a whole heap of other, far less busy, maybe not so skilled ones?

Why do you care about tree jobs so much?

Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: PF_ on September 26, 2006, 05:44:36 PM
IS SES anything like the SAS?

The beards and secrecy surrounding what exaclty they do.  I think Im onto this so called volunteer agency   8-):x (close enough to a cynical narrowed eyes emoticon, it is not mean to be angry)
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: bittenyakka on September 26, 2006, 05:47:20 PM
Keep it ontopic

Do any members of the SES find themselvs responding to clean up treas on houses of people who are not responsible enough to keep their houses in proper condition? ie being a free garden clean up service.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: squiddy on September 26, 2006, 06:09:46 PM
Thanks for the thread, CFS_FIREY, I think it will be good to break down some of the barriers between agencies through education  :mrgreen:

How much is the SASES different from the SES in the other states, and what resources do they share?


Each state governs their own SES, and roles vary from state to state. However, the roles can also vary from metro to rural areas, just as in SA. In a lot of states, SES is largely involved with flooding, storm and salvage and searches.

How big is the SASES (how many volunteers, paid staff, units, appliances etc)

According to the SES, there are 1938 volunteers. There are 36 paid staff.
OK... heirarchy as far as paid staff goes is as follws. It is a little confusing, so try to stay with me. There is the Chief Officer, and he has an executive PA and an executive project officer. The EPO has an operational admin officer and a corporate admin officer under them. Under the CO is the Deputy CO. He is responsible for each region. Each region has a Regional Commander, Senior Regional Officer, Training Officer, Business Support Officer and Admin Officer. Under the CO is also the Manager for Assets and Infrastructure, Manager for Training and Development, Business Manager, Manager of Corporate Communications and the Manager for Volunteer Marine Rescue (who is in charge of the VMR squadrons). There is also a State Planning Officer, State Training Officer and an Admin Officer.
Hope you got all that.

There are 68 SES units across SA, and I am unsure of the number of vehicles. Smaller units sometimes have less vehicles, and larger units sometimes have more. Generally everyone gets a rescue truck and at least 1 4WD.

What courses do the SES run, and offer?

First course to do is Basic Rescue. It is pretty much a prerequisite for everything else. From there, SES offers Advanced Rescue 1&2, Advanced Rescue Shoring, Air Observing, GRN & Basic Comms, Chainsaw Operations & Safety, Dropmaster, Leadership, Land Search & Rescue, Mapreading & Navigation, Recconaissance, RCR, Storm Damage Operations, Train Small Groups, USAR Category 1&2, Vertical Rescue (all levels), Workplace Assessment.

How are SES units responded to incidents (Do they ever respond in private cars?)

Some units have a Duty Officer that gets a page and then responds unit members to taskings. Other units all just respond with pagers. We arrive at the LHQ and get in vehicles. Sometimes crew will respond in private vehicles if they are nearby, but not often.

What ranks are there within Units, and how can we tell who is senior? (Different coloured helemts?)

Unit rankings are as follows:
Unit Manager
Deputy Unit Manager
Rescue Officer
Deputy Rescue Officer
Business Manager
Training Officer
Deputy Training Officer
Comms Officer
Equipment Officer
Welfare Officer
Team Leaders
Rescue Crew

Officers wear epaulettes on their shoulders. I don't have the full list of these on me atm, so I will let you know when I get it.

Do SES Units have specialisations (like the CFS has Rescue, or Hazmat) and how many of these specialised units are there? (eg, SACFS has 34 HAMZAT and 66 RCR brigades, out of 434)

Yes. There are specialised USAR, Confined Space, Vertical and RCR units. The 13 metro units do not do RCR. All 55 rural units are RCR. I know that Sturt, TTG and Mt Barker (soon apparently) are all USAR. Noarlunga does Confined Space and there are a few units who do vertical.

What is the average number of calls an SES unit gets in a year (Pip has said over 50% of CFS brigades get less than 20 calls)

While a lot of metro units do loads of storm and flood work, there are a few rural units who are lucky to make 10 calls a year. If you want exact numbers, go check out the SES annual report for last year http://www.ses.sa.gov.au/aboutses/aboutses/pdfs/ANNUAL%20REPORT%20MASTER%202004-05.pdf (http://www.ses.sa.gov.au/aboutses/aboutses/pdfs/ANNUAL%20REPORT%20MASTER%202004-05.pdf).

Hope that helps.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Toast on September 26, 2006, 06:22:17 PM
And someone said the SES had the monopoly on RCR and confined space *shakes head*

[Mod note]I said no SES bashing!  Be positive young and caring man!

There is a difference between punching holes in an argument and bashing.

Stop abusing your modrights
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: squiddy on September 26, 2006, 06:26:32 PM
And someone said the SES had the monopoly on RCR and confined space *shakes head*

Actually, what was said was that CFS only has the monopoly on firefighting and HAZMAT. Nothing was said about SES having a monopoly on confined space and RCR. And those are not the final statistics, by the way... that was a quick answer of a question. If you would like a full list of who does what, I would be more than happy to provide each unit's specialisations later in the week.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: squiddy on September 26, 2006, 06:31:28 PM
The reverse in implied :wink:

You're on then, mate  :mrgreen: Full list of each SES unit's specialisations by the end of the week and you can give us a full list of CFS brigades specialisations.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: bajdas on September 26, 2006, 06:44:37 PM
Do any members of the SES find themselvs responding to clean up treas on houses of people who are not responsible enough to keep their houses in proper condition? ie being a free garden clean up service.

YES....new procedures within the MFS ComCen and SES SCC ComCen mean that if the call-taker determines that the tree is down and safe, or that the water flood is from blocked gutters, then no Unit will be dispatched.

Call is logged as 'no response'.

The caller will be advised to contact a home maintenance firm.

Difficult when the caller gets angry or is old & infirm.

Sometimes the Duty Officer of the local Unit is telephoned & requested that a recce be performed before a full crew is dispatched.

these are generally P4 jobs (at discretion of volunteers time).
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Toast on September 26, 2006, 06:57:26 PM
How is it possible that the SES get turned out from MFS for a P1/P2 (both lights and sirens I have been led to believe) response, yet the may not be out the door for some time?

Do they have a specified default time like CFS does? Not just for RCR but for all jobs?
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: bajdas on September 26, 2006, 07:04:27 PM
Also to debunk a myth that I think still exists regards to Flooding response. Since before & after Virginia Floods several extras in the PREVENTION measures have been actioned by SES.

Hopefully this means we ALL will be more worried about evacuations & flood rescue rather than filling sandbags during the next flood event.

The initiatives include:
* flood maps of metropolitan council areas created.
* weather stations with internet output via computer, installed in some SES LHQ's. Work continues with BoM on more automated stations.
* councils to have pallets of filled sand-bags has a constant stock-on-hand, with agreement for them to be delivered by council whenever the needs arises. For example, City of Holdfast Bay agreed after Glenelg flooding & discussions have been held with Pt Pirie. I believe SES Metro South also have a filled bags stock-on-hand.
* flat-bed truck with tailgate lifter delivered to Northern Districts SES. I believe more are planned.
* high volume flood pumps have been delivered to metro Units.
* operations control on AIIMS lines being delivered by CFS to SES personnel. Seminars have already been held for officers.

Hopefully this means the days of sandbag filling are smaller.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: bajdas on September 26, 2006, 07:12:38 PM
How is it possible that the SES get turned out from MFS for a P1/P2 (both lights and sirens I have been led to believe) response, yet the may not be out the door for some time?

Do they have a specified default time like CFS does? Not just for RCR but for all jobs?

Internally SES are reviewing the 'standards of emergency response' which will be a signed agreement between the Unit Manager and SHQ. The theory is that if the Units do not meet the agreement (time truck out the door with specified crew whio have appropriate training), then the Unit will not be responded to that type of tasking in the future.

For example, draft standard for Comms team is within 10 minutes, but 30 minutes maximum.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Benji on September 26, 2006, 07:19:20 PM
Keep it ontopic

Do any members of the SES find themselvs responding to clean up treas on houses of people who are not responsible enough to keep their houses in proper condition? ie being a free garden clean up service.

With the new CAD system these types of calls are slowing getting weeded out. The odd one still gets to us. Normally what my unit it does if we get there and its a gardening service job is give them a list of numbers of people to call that will do the job, and leave.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: bajdas on September 26, 2006, 08:12:35 PM
How is it possible that the SES get turned out from MFS for a P1/P2 (both lights and sirens I have been led to believe) response, yet the may not be out the door for some time?

Do they have a specified default time like CFS does? Not just for RCR but for all jobs?

Respond to pager within 4 minutes or you default to next resource. Then the Unit agrees to abide by the 'standard of emergency response' for that type of incident.

The dual response with MFS and CFS is recognition that within metro area SES will not be quicker than MFS. So dual respond so that quickest resource is at the incident.

SES carry extra equipment for shoring, rescue tools, cuting tools, USAR, vertical, lighting, etc in each truck that MFS/CFS do not carry. Thus we are the extra equipment & people if the job is long & complicated in a 'heavy or specialised rescue' incident.

So I would want the truck on lights & sirens if I was trapped at long plains silo or the trench cave-in which are recent rescues involving SES.

Yes some people are getting annoyed with the stop calls & response downgrades, but Units will improve response times. In the meantime, if you are first responder & OIC, then give a good sitrep to following crews no matter what organisation they are from. We all use the GRN radio  8-)
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Hanging Around on September 26, 2006, 08:19:24 PM
One question. What is the Dropmaster course? Sounds like some paratrooper qualification, but that seems unlikely, unless the SES are closely related to the SAS just like someone else has suggested.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: CFS_Firey on September 26, 2006, 09:48:01 PM
I notice the SES mission is "A safe and prepared community".  What does the SES do to prepare the community?  (or is that the pre-filled sandbags you were talking about?)

Also, what is the VMR?
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Benji on September 26, 2006, 10:54:20 PM
What does the SES do to prepare the community?
Different levels of the SES do different things.. like CFS. Region level helps local government areas come up with flood and disaster responce plans, unit level give the odd talk or presentation to groups and so on.

What is VMR?
Volunteer Marine Rescue. They became part of the SES a few years back now. The primary role of them is to provide a marine search and rescue service to vessels in distress or vessels that require emergency assistance. Other tasks include vessel recovery and retrieval, medevac and assistance to Police and other government agencies. In the West Coast Region, they have established several limited coast marine radio stations staffed by SES/VMR Volunteers on a daily basis, monitoring the marine distress frequencies.

What is the Dropmaster course?
Learning how to drop things out the back of an aircraft. Could be used for food or med supplies to families in the middle of a flood area. That kind of thing. Its not a wide spread course.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: bajdas on September 26, 2006, 11:12:31 PM
I notice the SES mission is "A safe and prepared community".  What does the SES do to prepare the community?  (or is that the pre-filled sandbags you were talking about?)

When David Place became SES CEO he instigated the 'SES Case for Change' plan. This was to focus the organisation on Prepardness, rather than Reaction response to emergencies. It is also to focus SES has a specialised rescue responder.

Thus paid staff & Unit Managers have renewed focus on creation of emergency planning with public & private organisations. So SES assist prepare the SA State Emergency Plan (using staff associated with SEOC), councils, RA&HS Showground, Clipsal500 race, etc. This planning especially covers Floods which is now SES legislative role.

David Place is currently SAFECOM CEO so extra staff are on contract providing the planning services.

Also, what is the VMR?

Volunteer Marine Rescue co-ordinator is a paid staff member position within SES. He provides support to volunteers in the Sea Rescue Squadron, Volunteer Coast Guard, SES boats (sea & inland), 24x7 radio monitoring, etc.

He uses facilities within the SES office. This includes administration staff and people to assist in development of specialised courses in coastal navigation, seamanship, etc.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Toast on September 26, 2006, 11:48:40 PM
Isn't it time for a new motto for the SES? They have expanded far beyond it.

Why don't you guys like taking stop calls from us?

Do you still use a single rope technique in your rope rescue courses?

Will the SES be able to work beside the CFS now that we have numerous 'official' rope rescue brigades?
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Benji on September 27, 2006, 12:02:50 AM
Why don't you guys like taking stop calls from us?

Depends on what the job is. Most we will take the stop and go home, but others we will still go and say hello without lights and sirens going. Reason for this is because we have been caught out before. We had a stop call for a building impact saying only a fence had been knocked over, we where around the corner so went and had a look to find that the building had been stuck and the wall had been pushed in. That my not be the best example but its the first I could think of.

But that may not be the reason why we rock up, some calls we only get the stop from MFS as we rock up on site even when you called it in 5 min before hand. Then there is the odd time when we have to drive past the job to get home so we might stop and say hi - sorry to the Brigdewater guys that my passanger buzzed when we pulled over last week.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Toast on September 27, 2006, 12:07:39 AM
Why don't you guys like taking stop calls from us?

Depends on what the job is. Most we will take the stop and go home, but others we will still go and say hello without lights and sirens going. Reason for this is because we have been caught out before. We had a stop call for a building impact saying only a fence had been knocked over, we where around the corner so went and had a look to find that the building had been stuck and the wall had been pushed in. That my not be the best example but its the first I could think of.

But that may not be the reason why we rock up, some calls we only get the stop from MFS as we rock up on site even when you called it in 5 min before hand. Then there is the odd time when we have to drive past the job to get home so we might stop and say hi - sorry to the Brigdewater guys that my passanger buzzed when we pulled over last week.

But still, if the OIC on scene deems it not necessary for the attendence of a resource, then its THEIR decision. We don't go cruising to RCR's just in case its been cocked up. I understand if we give a stop (or forget to) and youre just around the corner, but when 10-15 minutes pass...
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Smallflame on September 27, 2006, 04:48:30 AM


Why don't you guys like taking stop calls from us?



Theres' a few CFS brigades who don't like taking stops either... I seem to recall a couple of freeway jobs...
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: squiddy on September 27, 2006, 07:10:06 AM
But still, if the OIC on scene deems it not necessary for the attendence of a resource, then its THEIR decision. We don't go cruising to RCR's just in case its been cocked up. I understand if we give a stop (or forget to) and youre just around the corner, but when 10-15 minutes pass...

Put quite simply, SES RCR units are not supposed to take stop calls unless it is from SAPOL or the original caller. Even then we are likely to respond at a lower priority. This is due to a massive cock up a few years ago when an SES unit were stop called for an accident because it was thought that everyone was out of the vehicle. Unfortunately there was a person out of sight in the back who died because nobody realised they were there and they were not extricated.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: PF_ on September 27, 2006, 07:49:43 AM
That seems fair enough based on history but now it is just under-mining the job's of the fire and rescue service.  Im sure there was an inquiry into how someone was forgotten and now it has been sorted out and now the job is done efficiently. If an OIC makes a decision to stop call someone it seems rather arrogant to keep responding, neither CFS or SES should continue responding really.   
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Toast on September 27, 2006, 10:20:23 AM


Why don't you guys like taking stop calls from us?



Theres' a few CFS brigades who don't like taking stops either... I seem to recall a couple of freeway jobs...
Really? Do tell, because I'd love to hear about them. Got issues with Littlehampton and Hahndorf?
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Alan (Big Al) on September 27, 2006, 10:24:59 AM
It even states in the RCR directory that if a rescue brigade is given a stop then they are well within their right to continue to the scene under normal road rules. However if a rescue resource is already on scene and they give a stop to the second rescue because they're not needed then they do look like donkeys when they rock up 15 minutes later lights still going and your heading home???
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: squiddy on September 27, 2006, 04:55:46 PM
As promised to our dear Mr. Toast, here is the list of SASES units and their specialisations.

Adelaide Hills - Storm, GRes, SAR, Landsearch
Andamooka - RCR, UGR, Comms, Storm
Barmera - RCR, SAR, Storm, GRes, Marine
Berri - RCR, GRes, SAR, Storm, Marine
Blanchetown - RCR, SAR, Storm, GRes
Booleroo Centre - RCR, VRes, SAR, Storm
Bordertown - RCR, SAR, Storm, GRes
Burra - RCR, SAR, GRes, Storm, Recce
Bute - RCR, GRes, SAR, Storm
Campbelltown - GRes, SAR, Storm, Landsearch
Ceduna - RCR, VMR, Welf, Comms
Clare - RCR, SAR, GRes, Storm, VRes, Welf, Comms
Cleve - RCR, GRes
Cockburn - RCR
Coober Pedy - RCR, UGR, SAR
Cummins - RCR, GRes, Storm
Dog Operations - SAR, Recce, Landsearch
Eastern Suburbs - GRes, Storm, SAR, VRes, Landsearch
Enfield - GRes, SAR, Storm, VRes, Lighting, Landsearch
Eyre HQ - Comms, EPIRB Tracking, 1st Aid, Logistics
Hallett - RCR, SAR, Comms, Storm
Hawker & Districts - RCR, SAR, Comms, Welf, Horse SAR
Kangaroo Island - RCR, Storm, VRes, SAR
Kapunda - RCR, GRes, VRes, Horse SAR
Keith - RCR, Storm, SAR, GRes
Kimba - RCR, Comms
Kingston SE - RCR, SAR, VRes, Storm
Laura - RCR, SAR, Storm, VRes
Leigh Creek - RCR, GRes
Loxton - RCR, Storm, SAR, Marine
Maitland - RCR, GRes, VRes, Storm, Comms
Marla - RCR, GRes
Meningie - RCR, Marine, GRes, Storm, SAR
Metro South - SAR, Storm, Landsearch, VRes, GRes
Mintabie - RCR, UGR, SAR
Mt Gambier & Districts - RCR, GRes, VRes, SAR
Murray Bridge - RCR, Storm, GRes, SAR, VRes, Marine
Noarlunga - GRes, Storm, SAR, VRes, Air Observer, Landsearch, Confined Space, Dropmasters, Bike SAR
Northern Districts - GRes, Storm, SAR, Landsearch
Nullarbour - RCR, GRes
Onkaparinga - RCR, GRes
Pt Augusta - RCR, SAR, Comms, VRes, Welf, GRes, Storm
Pt Broughton - RCR, GRes, SAR
Pt Lincoln - RCR, SAR, Welf, Comms, Storm, Air Observer, VRes, Marine
Pt Pirie - RCR, SAR, Storm, Marine
Prospect - GRes, Storm, Landsearch
Quorn - RCR, VRes, SAR, Comms, Storm
Renmark Paringa - RCR, GRes, VRes, SAR
Riverland HQ - Comms
Roxby Downs - RCR, Storm, SAR
Saddleworth & Districts - RCR, GRes, Storm, Flood
Snowtown - RCR, SAR, Welf, Storm
South East HQ - Comms
South Coast - RCR, GRes, SAR, VRes, Landsearch
Spalding - RCR, SAR, Welf, Storm
State HQ - Opps Support
Strathalbyn - RCR, GRes, SAR, Landsearch
Streaky Bay - RCR, GRes, Storm
Sturt - SAR, GRes, Storm, VRes, USAR
Tea Tree Gully - USAR, GRes, SAR, Storm, VRes, Landsearch
Tumby Bay - RCR, SAR, Marine, Storm, Welf, Comms, Air Observer, Recce
Warooka - RCR, SAR, VRes, Storm, GRes
Wattle Range - RCR, SAR, VRes, Storm
Western Adelaide - GRes, VRes, Storm, Landsearch, Air Observer, EWP
Whyalla - RCR, GRes, SAR, VRes, Storm, Confined Space, Comms, Welf, Recce
Wuddinna - RCR, GRes
Yankalilla - RCR, GRes, VRes, SAR, Landsearch

These were correct as at April 28, 2006. Not all aspects of each unit's capabilities have been covered, however this is a rough idea of the specialisations of each unit.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: PF_ on September 27, 2006, 06:15:51 PM
dog operations, try hard coppers!!!


IM joking kind of, what do dog ops do is it same as the police dogs.  Sounds cool to get into.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: CFS_Firey on September 27, 2006, 06:23:17 PM
Thanks squiddy! Can you give a brief explanation of what the different acronyms stand for?

RCR = Road crash rescue
SAR = Search and rescue
VRes = Vertical rescue?
GREs = ?
Welf = ?
UGR = ?
Recce = ?
Etc
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: bajdas on September 27, 2006, 06:28:07 PM
dog operations, try hard coppers!!!

IM joking kind of, what do dog ops do is it same as the police dogs.  Sounds cool to get into.

Many members are ex-police dog handlers or dog breeders/trainers. The dogs have practised / trained at Fort Largs Police long side the police dogs.

Basically they unit dogs can do everything that a Police Dog can do except attack. They specialised in finding lost people.

They are currently recruiting people so that when they search, the team consists of the dog, dog handler & comms / navigator person. Currently they share a portion of Tea Tree Gully's SES LHQ and some equipment is members home based.

The Unit recently bought their own dog, that will move between Unit members houses. Previously the dog left when the member left, thus all trained dog asset was completed lost to SES.

Like the hourse mounted Units and quad bike Units, they are interesting to work with.

I believe they have been used in searches at Whyalla, Adelaide surrounds and Flinders Rangers. They also do alot of PR at Riverland Show and Royal Adelaide Show. They will be at the display in Rundle Mall on 17/11 & 18/11/2006.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: PF_ on September 27, 2006, 06:30:39 PM
quad bike SES, awesome.

I wouldnt mind doing some of this specialty SES stuff. 
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: squiddy on September 27, 2006, 06:36:59 PM
Not quad bikes... Noarlunga use mountain bikes, although there are some units in other states who use quads and atv's. PIRSA will bring quad bikes out for searches if requested, however.

As for the abbreviations:
RCR - Road Crash Rescue
SAR - Search and Rescue
GRes - General Rescue
VRes - Vertical Rescue
Comms - Communications
Welf - Welfare
Recce - Recconnaisance
EWP - Electronic Work Platform (Cherrypicker)
UGR - Underground Rescue
EPIRB Tracking - Emergency Position Indicator Radiobeacon Tracking
USAR - Urban Search & Rescue
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: PF_ on September 27, 2006, 06:38:12 PM
dont talk in acronyms FIGJAM

who is PIRSA
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: squiddy on September 27, 2006, 06:41:51 PM
dont talk in acronyms FIGJAM

who is PIRSA

Primary Industry Resources South Australia
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: PF_ on September 27, 2006, 06:44:31 PM
and they do what?
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: bajdas on September 27, 2006, 06:44:48 PM
Sorry Squiddy, but Kapunda SES have quad bikes. They used them and the horses at a Onkaparinga Gorge search I attended.

I believe Whyalla SES have quad bikes as well. Two metro SES Units are requesting them, but this is being negotiated via the new funding arrangements.

Also, Booleroo Centre SES have normal trail bikes.

Noarlunga SES have mountain push bikes that have ridden with the SAPOL bike teams at searches. They are also at the Clipsal500 race event each year.

Enfield SES are negotiating a mountain bike team.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Timbo on September 27, 2006, 06:45:28 PM
and they do what?

www.pir.sa.gov.au
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: PF_ on September 27, 2006, 06:48:34 PM
probably need a bike licence to ride them and live in the area to join the briagde, IM out.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: CFS_Firey on September 27, 2006, 06:49:48 PM
Can you explain what Recon units do, and also what Welfare units do?
(I take it GRes is for cat rescue etc?)
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: bajdas on September 27, 2006, 06:56:07 PM
Isn't it time for a new motto for the SES? They have expanded far beyond it.

Why don't you guys like taking stop calls from us?

Do you still use a single rope technique in your rope rescue courses?

Will the SES be able to work beside the CFS now that we have numerous 'official' rope rescue brigades?

Current motto is RESCUE & that is a large area of different types  :roll: :evil:

Single rope techniques are still being used but include larkin frame, rescue litter, multi-point anchors, ascenders, whaletail decenders, etc.

I think there are three levels of training in SES Vertical Rescue.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Toast on September 27, 2006, 07:02:51 PM
Isn't it time for a new motto for the SES? They have expanded far beyond it.

Why don't you guys like taking stop calls from us?

Do you still use a single rope technique in your rope rescue courses?

Will the SES be able to work beside the CFS now that we have numerous 'official' rope rescue brigades?

Current motto is RESCUE & that is a large area of different types  :roll: :evil:

Single rope techniques are still being used but include larkin frame, rescue litter, multi-point anchors, ascenders, whaletail decenders, etc.

I think there are three levels of training in SES Vertical Rescue.

"Natures worst brings out our best" Yep, Rescue...

So the only difference between CFS & SES is that you dont run a safet/belay line? Any particular reason?
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: bajdas on September 27, 2006, 07:18:31 PM

"Natures worst brings out our best" Yep, Rescue...

So the only difference between CFS & SES is that you dont run a safet/belay line? Any particular reason?

The 'natures worst....' phrase is being phased out I believe.

I have not completed the current Vertical Rescue courses so I will let someone else answer that question.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Mike on September 28, 2006, 08:02:32 AM
So the only difference between CFS & SES is that you dont run a safet/belay line? Any particular reason?

The 11mm ropes used are rated to ~2500Kg. This rope is rescue rated (unlike the rope supplied with CFS appliances) The main differences being:

The sheath is a different colour to the core, for defect identification
The sheath is bonded to the core so that it doesnt slide off (and the operator goeing with it!)

The SES standards say that the rope is not to be loaded beond 1/8th of its rating, so people are working well within its limits.

As for a safety belay line. Why? Twice as much equipment! and at ~$5 a metre thats a lot of extra money for very little benifit. Particularly if your dealling with  a 200m cliff on the west coast! It also shows a lack of trust in your equipment/skills to do the job properly.

Any more questions on vert?
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: squiddy on September 28, 2006, 08:43:20 AM
Sorry Squiddy, but Kapunda SES have quad bikes. They used them and the horses at a Onkaparinga Gorge search I attended.

I believe Whyalla SES have quad bikes as well. Two metro SES Units are requesting them, but this is being negotiated via the new funding arrangements.

Also, Booleroo Centre SES have normal trail bikes.

Noarlunga SES have mountain push bikes that have ridden with the SAPOL bike teams at searches. They are also at the Clipsal500 race event each year.

Enfield SES are negotiating a mountain bike team.

Thanks for that, mate. Like I said, they were the specs that were handed in to the directory at State. Maybe each unit needs to send in this info so that it can be updated?

Recon units go out and assess damage. They decide priorities and the like with major operations etc.
Welfare units provide welfare (catering etc). As far as I am aware, many SES units are getting rid of welfare at a regional level because the likes of the Salvation Army van can be brought in for major taskings, and there is so many OHS&W/food handling issues with welfare these days that it just isn't worth it... like the old salmonella bus that used to come out  :evil:
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: bajdas on September 28, 2006, 12:15:28 PM
... like the old salmonella bus that used to come out  :evil:

Hey be easy with the the old EMU (Emergency Meals Unit). I helped fund-raise to build that bus. :-P

The bus was sold a few years ago now & sometimes I see it (with the emu logo) parked on Main North Rd.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: medevac on September 28, 2006, 12:29:41 PM

I take it GRes is for cat rescue etc?

GRes would be the equivelent of our "extrication rescue" - people trapped in machinery, under objects, in objects, on objects, etc....

Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: squiddy on September 28, 2006, 12:39:43 PM
... like the old salmonella bus that used to come out  :evil:

Hey be easy with the the old EMU (Emergency Meals Unit). I helped fund-raise to build that bus. :-P

The bus was sold a few years ago now & sometimes I see it (with the emu logo) parked on Main North Rd.

Shame you didn't help fundraise to clean it  :-P
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: squiddy on September 28, 2006, 12:41:38 PM

I take it GRes is for cat rescue etc?

GRes would be the equivelent of our "extrication rescue" - people trapped in machinery, under objects, in objects, on objects, etc....



GRes is basically odds and sods rescue that there isn't a box on the forms for  :-)
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Toast on September 28, 2006, 12:43:04 PM
So the only difference between CFS & SES is that you dont run a safet/belay line? Any particular reason?

The 11mm ropes used are rated to ~2500Kg. This rope is rescue rated (unlike the rope supplied with CFS appliances) The main differences being:

The sheath is a different colour to the core, for defect identification
The sheath is bonded to the core so that it doesnt slide off (and the operator goeing with it!)

The SES standards say that the rope is not to be loaded beond 1/8th of its rating, so people are working well within its limits.

As for a safety belay line. Why? Twice as much equipment! and at ~$5 a metre thats a lot of extra money for very little benifit. Particularly if your dealling with  a 200m cliff on the west coast! It also shows a lack of trust in your equipment/skills to do the job properly.

Any more questions on vert?

Ok, so, if a component fails on your single rope system, you've got nothing else. You can work well within a ropes max loading and still have something in the system fail. Ill take the whole $500 worth of extra rope thanks :D
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Toast on September 28, 2006, 12:44:14 PM
So does SAR cover landsearch? If not, what exactly is it?
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: medevac on September 28, 2006, 12:49:55 PM
im with you Toast - if i was performing a rescue id rather have a safety, as would the casualty im sure... but on the other hand if im just climbing or abseiling then no, i wouldnt run a safety rope.

SAR and Landsearch are differant, as a  landsearch cold be purely for criminal evidence or something... im not sure on the exact specifics, but thats a general idea for ya...
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: squiddy on September 28, 2006, 12:51:54 PM
So does SAR cover landsearch? If not, what exactly is it?

Landsearch can be used for crime scene searches when an object or evidence is to be found. SAR is about searching and rescuing, so there can be a difference.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Mike on September 28, 2006, 01:13:52 PM
Theres nothing stopping the second rope from breaking either. If the first rope has reason to break, then the second is in the same spot, same conditions etc.

Cars have safety cells, airbags and seatbelts.... people still die!

You run an attack line into a building.... do you take a spare incase the first blows?
Do you carry a respirator incase your BA set has a problem?

I can think of many instances where it would be fantastic to have a backup right there when I want it. Doesnt happen.

Using the single rope system you can get a person to the bottom of the cliff with very little fuss. Once the larkin frame and hauling systems have been set up, you can send a second rescuer and stokes little. The casualty is already prep'd to load. There are no ropes 'dragging over any sharp surfaces as the larkin frame prevents this.

Medivac: why diferentiate between rescue and personal use? Surely you deserve the same level of safety in both cases? So why not run a safety in the climbing/abseiling case?
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Toast on September 28, 2006, 01:20:14 PM
No, the second line is a totally independent system. If the main line fails, then you can stop, take a look at whats gone wrong, FIX IT, and either haul the person up, or continue to lower. Or with he single line you can plunge to the bottom of the cliff.

Attack lines? If one blows, you can turn around and walk out, same with BA. Cars? Safety measures have improved survival. The point is that if the main line fails, you're facing death or serious injury almost certainly. In the time it takes to have the mainline setup, you can have the safety up as well.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: squiddy on September 28, 2006, 01:27:25 PM
No, the second line is a totally independent system. If the main line fails, then you can stop, take a look at whats gone wrong, FIX IT, and either haul the person up, or continue to lower. Or with he single line you can plunge to the bottom of the cliff.

Attack lines? If one blows, you can turn around and walk out, same with BA. Cars? Safety measures have improved survival. The point is that if the main line fails, you're facing death or serious injury almost certainly. In the time it takes to have the mainline setup, you can have the safety up as well.

I think the point Mike is making here is that if you treat your equipment with absolute respect and follow the safety rules such as 2 person checking etc, then the equipment shouldn't fail.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Mike on September 28, 2006, 01:53:20 PM
Thanks Squiddy

It may be an independent system. but it follows the same path as the load line, and requires suitable protection of edges etc. If it is so independent that the rope does not follow then the rescuer will pendulum creating a whole new set of problems.

Quote
INCORPORATION OF SAFETY BELAYS 11.4

11.4 REQUIREMENT
In certain circumstances, dictated either by service operational policy or by on-ground conditions, there will be a requirement to establish a belay or safety rope for the casualty and escort.

11.5 BACKā€“UP
The belay is for use only as a back up in the event that the main hauling line becomes inoperative, or any element of the rescue system fails.

11.6 A belay should be anchored independently of the rescue system and controlled at all times so that there is a minimum of slack in the line.

Ok, an extract from the EMA manual 40 - Vertical Rescue.
http://www.ema.gov.au/agd/EMA/rwpattach.nsf/VAP/(A80860EC13A61F5BA8C1121176F6CC3C)~ASM_VerticalRescue.pdf/$file/ASM_VerticalRescue.pdf (http://www.ema.gov.au/agd/EMA/rwpattach.nsf/VAP/(A80860EC13A61F5BA8C1121176F6CC3C)~ASM_VerticalRescue.pdf/$file/ASM_VerticalRescue.pdf)

There is no actual requirement for a belay or safety rope.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Toast on September 28, 2006, 01:57:50 PM
Yes, but equipment isn't perfect. I just don't see the implied burden of having a second line.

Edit: Mike, well if its not in the SOP's oh well. Is the vert course SES does a National one?
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: medevac on September 28, 2006, 02:29:43 PM
mike - i was under the impression we were talking about a safety back up when performing the actual rescue.... i would quite happily send a rescuer down on a single line (if that rescuer was happy in doing so) so that they could perform first aid, and recce, should SOTs not be there yet...

what i am talking about is if the rescuer is then strapped to a stokes or what not, i would be much happier with them having a backup...

and the comment re; backup will fail if the main one does anyway is a bit daft mike, there are many differant reasons why the main line could break, and this wouldnt necessarily impact on the backup... for example, backup line should be at a differant connection point, so should the main lines connection fail then the backup will still have a connection...

(hmmm im rambling here)

and re; for my own use, id quite happily run without a safety, because not only do i trust my equipment (i know that slightly contradicts my previous) but when i am by myself, that is simply it... by myself, i dont have anyone elses life in my hands....


on the other hand; if backup lines arent apart of SOP then by all means the OIC should use them as they deem fit....
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Toast on September 28, 2006, 02:46:03 PM
For the RAT to get to the casualty, it shouldn't take any longer to get the safetly line setup.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: medevac on September 28, 2006, 02:51:05 PM
by golly weve dragged this off track...  :|
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Mike on September 28, 2006, 02:54:10 PM
my bad :cry: (mutters about moderators under breath  :wink: )
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Toast on September 28, 2006, 02:59:42 PM
Do the SES now have multiple uniforms? They have the good old orange jumpsuit, but do they also run a two piece?

I must say the new orange/blue "SES Rescue" jackets are rather fetching.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Mike on September 28, 2006, 03:03:50 PM
Two piece or overalls. User choice. Still in the middle of changing badging also.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: PF_ on September 28, 2006, 03:24:40 PM
Id want a safety belay line with me at all times.  Safety is paramount.  If that original rope fails, Im filtered, if there is a second rope there is a second chance.  id rather get injured knowing I had a back up line that failed than crash to the grond and be paralysed or dead knowing there was a chance I could still be out climbing and having fun. 
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: squiddy on September 28, 2006, 05:06:19 PM
In relation to the earlier question about rank in the SES and how to tell who is in charge out on a scene (because we all wear orange helmets), here is a list of the epaulettes worn by SES volunteers.

Unit Manager - Crown
Deputy Unit Manager - 3 pips
Service Officer (eg rescue, training, comms) - 2 pips
Deputy Service Officer - 1 pip
Team Leader - 3 chevron
Deputy Team Leader - 2 chevron
Equipment Officer - 1 chevron

Sometimes (especially out at floods etc) you may see paid SES staff. They can be identified by their epaulettes as follows:

Chief Officer - crown, pip, wreath
Deputy Chief Officer - crown, wreath
Assistant Chief Officer - pip, wreath
Regional Commander & State Managers (Infrastructure & Training/Development) - wreath
Senior Regional Officer, Technical Rescue Officer, OHW&S Officer & Manager Ops Support - crown, 2 pips
State Training Officers & State Project Officers - crown, pip

Along with the recent badge change, we are now using blue epaulettes with yellow insignia as opposed to the old brown with yellow. Some people still wear the old ones, but once everyone has the new uniforms, it should change over completely.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: bajdas on September 28, 2006, 06:06:57 PM
Do the SES now have multiple uniforms? They have the good old orange jumpsuit, but do they also run a two piece?

I must say the new orange/blue "SES Rescue" jackets are rather fetching.

The walking out uniform has changed to fawn shirt with dark blue badges, fawn trousers, dark blue jumper and dark blue jacket.

Casual wear will be determined in the future.

The orange overalls or two-piece, orange helmets, orange wet weather gear, bum bag, steel cap boots and floppy hat form standard field PPE.

Due to the change-over to the new uniforms, some (like myself) still wear old style uniforms :cry: until issued with new.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: squiddy on September 29, 2006, 12:02:05 AM
The walking out uniform has changed to fawn shirt with dark blue badges, fawn trousers, dark blue jumper and dark blue jacket.

Its not "fawn"... it is called "putty". Why couldn't they just go blue pants to go with the new blue jumpers and jackets? Light trousers are a pain in the rear.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: PF_ on September 29, 2006, 12:06:09 AM
coppers and firies wear blue.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: squiddy on September 29, 2006, 01:09:05 AM
coppers and firies wear blue.

And park rangers wear fawn.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: probie_boy on September 29, 2006, 12:40:20 PM
I have a question. Why do SES groups always have so many vehicles and trailers? Would it be easier to get 1 or 2 hino's or isuzu's and fill them to the brim with gear rather than having 4 land rovers?

also, why don't sturt SES have a quad, mountain bike or horse team? there are quite a lot of rural areas where that stuf would be handy (belair national park, cleland, scott creek CP etc) Maybe they could give up the aireshelta! :evil:
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: squiddy on September 29, 2006, 01:58:12 PM
I have a question. Why do SES groups always have so many vehicles and trailers? Would it be easier to get 1 or 2 hino's or isuzu's and fill them to the brim with gear rather than having 4 land rovers?

also, why don't sturt SES have a quad, mountain bike or horse team? there are quite a lot of rural areas where that stuf would be handy (belair national park, cleland, scott creek CP etc) Maybe they could give up the aireshelta! :evil:

The reason we have so many different vehicles is because we do different taskings. I mean, we aren't exactly going to turn up at a landsearch in a heavy rescue truck if all our rcr gear is on it, are we? Sensibility would suggest taking troopies and leaving the haevy equipment back at the base with a few crew. We use landcruisers etc to get the crew around when they won't all fit on the truck, and also for those who may arrive at the base just after the truck has left. We use trailers to store specific tools and equipment so we don't end up with a truck that weighs 10 ton and won't move. We also do it so that you can find things easily. There's no use carrying everything on the truck if it means having to pull everything out to get to things.

As far as units not having certain things like quad bikes, it isn't as simple as getting things based on the territory around you. Resources can be brought in if necessary. If Sturt get quad bikes because they are near national parks, why not give Yankalilla some for Deep Creek, or some of the other outlying units like Murray Bridge or Meningie or Strathalbyn who have to search along the Murray or the lakes?

As far as the horses go, they are owned by unit members in those units. The unit has a horse float to take them to taskings, and they can be deployed all over the state... just as the dog unit have caged cars and can be deployed anywhere.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: probie_boy on September 29, 2006, 02:23:54 PM
ok. cheers for that.

on the subject of big trucks, dont a couple of metro units have large trucks?
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: medevac on September 29, 2006, 09:07:16 PM
no SES units have "big" trucks... on the scale of a 24P or 34P or whatever...

but they do have trucks; sturt for example run two an Isuzu 300 as well as a Mitsubishi canter as rescue trucks... in fact most units have vehicles like these.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: probie_boy on September 30, 2006, 12:41:05 AM
no SES units have "big" trucks... on the scale of a 24P or 34P or whatever...

but they do have trucks; sturt for example run two an Isuzu 300 as well as a Mitsubishi canter as rescue trucks... in fact most units have vehicles like these.

are you sure? i seem to recall SES having an Isuzu or something. it was a medium size truck. might've lived at metro south???
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: medevac on September 30, 2006, 12:47:45 AM
i just said sturt have an isuzu 300 and that there are more medium sized trucks out there........


just that they havent got the same monstrosities we do
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: squiddy on September 30, 2006, 08:12:49 AM
i just said sturt have an isuzu 300 and that there are more medium sized trucks out there........


just that they havent got the same monstrosities we do

A whole lot of Isuzu FRR 550 dualcabs were handed out to units last financial year. Moore's Engineering at Murray Bridge do the fit out on them. Most units get 2WD, but there are a few 4WD out there.

A lot of the metro units only have light trucks due to their short distances, higher crew numbers and the fact they mostly do storm and flood work. Units with the likes of USAR have special trailers etc.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: SA Firey on September 30, 2006, 12:02:32 PM
How is it possible that the SES get turned out from MFS for a P1/P2 (both lights and sirens I have been led to believe) response, yet the may not be out the door for some time?

Do they have a specified default time like CFS does? Not just for RCR but for all jobs?

MFS: RESPOND RESCUE GENERAL 30/09/06 10:57,COOBER PEDY SES,COOBER PEDY, MAP 0 A 0 ,,GATE 11 ROAD 1.8 KM DOWN ROAD PERSON FALLEN IN SHAFT POLICE IN ATT,75529*CFSRES

1928013 11:06:25 30-09-06 MFS: RING 82043501 IF YOU RECEIVED MESSAGE RE RESCUE MINE SHAFT
 
Who does Coober Pedy default to :-D

Life threat job
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: RescueHazmat on September 30, 2006, 01:16:27 PM
They haven't defaulted, but if required the closest SES resources are:

Marla
Roxby
Andamooka
Port Augusta
Whyalla



Marla is the closest and are RCR and a general rescue resource, however Andamooka are the only underground rescue resource if Coober didn't go, and Whyalla being confined space if really required.. Roxby would probably assist with Andamooka making crew for such an incident.


There is also a fulltime paid fire/rescue/hazmat crew at Woomera, however I highly doubt they would go as they are covering the Woomera township.


Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Toast on October 01, 2006, 07:48:10 PM
Whats going on here?

18:01:07   01-10-06   MFS: RESPOND Tree Down 01/10/06 17:59,YOUNG ST,PARKSIDE, MAP 130 J 3 ,,PRIORITY 2 - IO METRE LIMB OFF LARGE GUM TREE OVER ROAD - THREATENING TO FALL - TREE IN SCHOOL GROUNDS - 0408896584,72620*CFSRES:

18:57:37   01-10-06   CALL OUT P2 TREE OVER FENCE & FOOTPATH IN SCHOOL PROPERTY YOUNG ST PARKSIDE ALL PAGERS RING DO 0882777411 OR SMS 0412186639 OR PAGE 463803

Is this "Priority Two" liek the CFS P2, (eg: SES P3/P4) or did something go awry?
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: medevac on October 01, 2006, 09:08:52 PM
PRIORITY TWO = SES responding only, lights and sirens
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Toast on October 02, 2006, 01:56:16 AM
PRIORITY TWO = SES responding only, lights and sirens
Boy howdy, you don't say. Look at the time between the MFS response page and the second page. I was asking what exactly was going on. 72620 appears to be Metro South, why the hell are they appear to be turning out lights/sirens an HOUR after the job was paged. I am assuming that the second page is asking for crew at the LHQ?
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: medevac on October 02, 2006, 08:17:58 AM
Dont be a nuffer, you asked what the P2 was.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: squiddy on October 02, 2006, 08:20:47 AM
PRIORITY TWO = SES responding only, lights and sirens

Hold up there big fella... why the buggery is anyone going with lights and sirens to a P2? Maybe lights, but a 10m branch does not constitute alarming the public like that. Maybe if it were on a busload of girl guides, but certainly not if it is already on the fence and in the school grounds.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: RescueHazmat on October 02, 2006, 07:44:40 PM
Without knowing any components of the call, I would guess it was deemed a high risk to life.


To be frank, a 10m limb landing on someone would be deadly.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Toast on October 03, 2006, 12:11:25 AM
Yeah, but at what point does it become not a life risk. Hell its been there for an hour atleast...
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Mike on October 03, 2006, 09:01:38 AM
I would think time is not an attributing factor to the deemed "life threat"..... The only thing that would change the status is if the physical situation changed.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: bajdas on October 03, 2006, 09:51:44 AM
Whats going on here?

18:01:07   01-10-06   MFS: RESPOND Tree Down 01/10/06 17:59,YOUNG ST,PARKSIDE, MAP 130 J 3 ,,PRIORITY 2 - IO METRE LIMB OFF LARGE GUM TREE OVER ROAD - THREATENING TO FALL - TREE IN SCHOOL GROUNDS - 0408896584,72620*CFSRES:

18:57:37   01-10-06   CALL OUT P2 TREE OVER FENCE & FOOTPATH IN SCHOOL PROPERTY YOUNG ST PARKSIDE ALL PAGERS RING DO 0882777411 OR SMS 0412186639 OR PAGE 463803

Is this "Priority Two" liek the CFS P2, (eg: SES P3/P4) or did something go awry?

I would suspect that a Recce crew went to the scene before the Unit member pagers were activated & found they needed more crew/equipment. The recce crew can make the scene safe & deal with smaller jobs.

Why SES P2 for the rest of the crew, don't know details of the incident.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: medevac on October 06, 2006, 09:12:47 AM
PRIORITY TWO = SES responding only, lights and sirens

Hold up there big fella... why the buggery is anyone going with lights and sirens to a P2? Maybe lights, but a 10m branch does not constitute alarming the public like that. Maybe if it were on a busload of girl guides, but certainly not if it is already on the fence and in the school grounds.

SQUIDDY - SES prioritys are differant to ours, and instead of having P1 and P2 like us, they have 4 priorities...

therefore; yes P2 is lights and sirens
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: oz fire on October 06, 2006, 11:20:53 AM
PRIORITY TWO = SES responding only, lights and sirens
Hold up there big fella... why the buggery is anyone going with lights and sirens to a P2? Maybe lights, but a 10m branch does not constitute alarming the public like that. Maybe if it were on a busload of girl guides, but certainly not if it is already on the fence and in the school grounds.

Hold on a minute - before we point too many fingers - there are a lot of fire service resources that will respond P1 to everything - including tree's down, minor flooding, spillages (non hazmat) even tractor boggings - each service has it's SOP's and from there down each station has an OIC who makes a determination when the call is received
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: squiddy on October 06, 2006, 12:16:54 PM
PRIORITY TWO = SES responding only, lights and sirens
Hold up there big fella... why the buggery is anyone going with lights and sirens to a P2? Maybe lights, but a 10m branch does not constitute alarming the public like that. Maybe if it were on a busload of girl guides, but certainly not if it is already on the fence and in the school grounds.

Hold on a minute - before we point too many fingers - there are a lot of fire service resources that will respond P1 to everything - including tree's down, minor flooding, spillages (non hazmat) even tractor boggings - each service has it's SOP's and from there down each station has an OIC who makes a determination when the call is received

Yeah... I know that. Its just a shame that a lot of those OICs are adrenaline junkies and like to use their lights and sirens when it isn't always necessary.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: medevac on October 06, 2006, 02:59:12 PM
Thats alright... i heard a DGO going P1 to a smoke investigation in a command car today.... what was he gonna do? piss on it?
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Firefrog on October 08, 2006, 09:28:05 AM
This topic is about SES famil. Please take dicussion on use of warning devices to another thread.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: bajdas on October 09, 2006, 11:15:06 AM
What is the current equipment list in a SASES Heavy Rescue truck in the metropolitan area ? What are the differences in equipment carried when the truck is country RCR ?

Some equipment is standard and sometimes the list is modified for local conditions. But it would be good to update my knowledge with the latest.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: medevac on October 11, 2006, 09:14:19 AM
a brigade or unit listed in the RCR directory must carry certain things to fulfill the requirement;

-hydraulic power unit
-heavy cutters
-heavy spreaders (double acting)
-300mm ram
-600mm ram
-2x10m hydraulic hoses minimum
-pulling chains or belts for spreaders
-auxillary pump
-generator, lighting
-general hand tools
-hazard cones and lights
cribbing blocks and wedges (stabilisation gear)


the rams may be combined to be one telescopic unit...
this is the bare donkey minimum required to be a rescue resource in the green book, in saying this some units may have extra gear, but that is the standard set by the RCR working party.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Mike on October 16, 2006, 09:57:26 AM
Heavy rescue does not necessarily mean RCR capable in SES terms....
In saying that, not sure.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: 2090 on October 18, 2006, 02:00:40 PM
It really deserves another thread, but its surprising to see just how little is officially listed for an RCR resource. Are there any units that carry the bare minimum?
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: bajdas on October 18, 2006, 06:22:27 PM
It really deserves another thread, but its surprising to see just how little is officially listed for an RCR resource. Are there any units that carry the bare minimum?

Community Response trailers most probably only carry the minimum. They respond to incidents in the far northern and far west regions of the state while the trucks are deployed from the nearest resource.

For example, Hawker SES support a trailer at a property in the Northern Flinders area. I think Ceduna SES were looking at the same concept in the Aboriginal lands area.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: SA Firey on October 18, 2006, 06:27:09 PM
PRIORITY TWO = SES responding only, lights and sirens
Hold up there big fella... why the buggery is anyone going with lights and sirens to a P2? Maybe lights, but a 10m branch does not constitute alarming the public like that. Maybe if it were on a busload of girl guides, but certainly not if it is already on the fence and in the school grounds.

Hold on a minute - before we point too many fingers - there are a lot of fire service resources that will respond P1 to everything - including tree's down, minor flooding, spillages (non hazmat) even tractor boggings - each service has it's SOP's and from there down each station has an OIC who makes a determination when the call is received

Yeah... I know that. Its just a shame that a lot of those OICs are adrenaline junkies and like to use their lights and sirens when it isn't always necessary.

Just to clarify for everyone the SES responses as follows are

P1-Life threat-MFS/CFS/SES respond as nearest service
P2-Priority 1-SES attending only
P3-Priority 2 response
P4-Non urgent job

Hope that helps :-D
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: probie_boy on November 26, 2006, 02:02:49 PM
hey, a question.

which SES unit has the most rsponse vehicles? Is it sturt with 5?
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: bajdas on November 26, 2006, 06:34:30 PM
hey, a question.

which SES unit has the most response vehicles? Is it sturt with 5?

Please remember that metro SES Units have built equipment standards so that they can respond to multiple incidents at the same time. For example, a storm can generate 30+ jobs for one Unit in a night.

The response to a single life threat incident has only been occuring in the metro region for the approximately the past two years. So we are still adapting equipment.

New vehicles are being issued at the moment after the SA government released the budget. I believe a flat-bed truck with tailgate lifter is heading for a south metro Unit and some replacement 4wd's are arriving soon.

I am not absolutely sure, but I believe Western Adelaide, Sturt, Metro South and Tea Tree Gully have 5 or more vehicles. Each Unit also has multiple trailers.

A problem at the moment is that the Unit's cannot accomodate the equipment. To expand the land & buildings will cost $$$$$$.

I was speaking to one Unit member this morning of a southern Adelaide Unit (not Sturt SES). They have 2 trucks, 3 4wd's, 3 specialist trailers and a tandem trailer.

Unit membership is 40 people with a waiting list. They do intake once per year.

Compared to a northern metro Unit which has 1 truck and 1 4wd. They have one flood pump trailer and a tandem trailer. Currently they have just over 20 members but are actively recruiting. This Unit does not have the facilities to store all of the equipment.

So the metro units do have alot of equipment and some is very specialised (BA, USAR, flood, lighting, etc). But because of the cost of metro land and buildings, units are spread out more when you consider the population.

To accomodate this problem, all first response vehicles / equipment are stored at Unit's LHQ and some of the second response / general trailers are stored at Unit members homes.

Some Units like the SES Dog Unit have all of their equipment and vehicles in Unit members homes. They do not have a headquarters buildings but share a section of another Units.

In country regions, the SES are more setup via history for single response life threat incidents. But Kapunda have multiple vehicles and trailers to transport the horses / quad bikes. I do not know other country Unit equiment levels.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: bittenyakka on January 14, 2007, 05:49:08 PM
The other night i came across a road that the SES had closed as there was a tree down. the member controlling traffic was only wearing the orange overalls and had no traffic vest on. as we have to wear one in CFS isn't this the same in SES?
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Alan (Big Al) on January 14, 2007, 09:08:39 PM
The law for anyone working on a road, Hi visibility clothing or vests that meet Aus standards must be worn.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Pipster on January 14, 2007, 10:29:28 PM
Except if the road is closed, then no requirement to wear vest.....however, if you are the one closing the road, you need one!!

There is some info in the latest SPO's / COSO's in relation to this, which details the situations where you don't have to wear a vest.

However, the situation outlined here wouldn't be one of them!!

 Pip
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: squiddy on January 15, 2007, 05:36:54 AM
New SES overalls and 2-piece PPE meet Australian standards for road visibility so a vest does not have to be worn... otherwise every single RCR unit would need to put their members in vests for RCR jobs, which would just be unsafe as the vests can catch on everything.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: RescueHazmat on January 16, 2007, 11:17:34 AM
Most fire services still wear hi-vis traffic vests while undertaking rescue operations.. Well.. Having them on when arriving at a job, I have never seen an operator take one off to commence a rescue.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: sesroadcrashrescue on August 16, 2007, 12:10:58 AM
hay
 i have only read the first page so i am sorry if i am repeating someone else

I'm in the ses at kapunda we have only 4 minutes to notify mfs comcen that we will be responding then we have another 6mins to be out the door this only applies to RCR any page we receive we have 4 mins to reply to storm damage we have extra time to get gear together and stuff like that if its a land search then we can take an hour to be out the door by the time we organise crews logistics etc etc

at kapunda we have four main responsibility's which are

Road Crash Rescue
Land Search Operations
Mounted Search team (horse and quadbike)
Storm damage


most of our calls come from RCR related jobs 
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: sesroadcrashrescue on August 16, 2007, 12:24:09 AM
i can tell you what kapunda unit has in the way of vicheals

we have

231- primary response for RCR
     only has has RCR gear with some storm damage gear built on an isusu 550 base

233- Primary response for Storm damage
     fitted with al the tools a man could want or need plus plastic, sandbags, built on an isusu 500 base

235- Command car
     carrys all incident control equipment, computer, printer, maps,
     toyota landcruiser

flaot 1 horse floats carry three horses per float
float 2

lighting plant- built on a tralier for land search at night for lighting at forward command

Quad 1
Quad 2 quadbikes for land search

multi tralier used for all sorts carring flood gear or generator

bike traler large tandam traler built for the mounted team to transport the quads

sorry for the spelling mistakes
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: bajdas on August 16, 2007, 10:20:47 AM
i can tell you what kapunda unit has in the way of vicheals

we have.....

Welcome.... I thought Kapunda had a F250 to tow the horse floats. I know this was expensive on fuel to run.

What do you use now to tow the horse floats now ?
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: CFS_Firey on August 16, 2007, 10:42:35 AM
231- primary response for RCR
     only has has RCR gear with some storm damage gear built on an isusu 550 base

What extra RCR gear do you carry on here (Other than the standard stowage)? eg. Air bags,spinal boards & first aid, air tools etc?
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: piriejono on August 16, 2007, 12:03:20 PM
Kapundas f250 came to Port Pirie last year and that has now gone on to leigh creek ses.

Jono SES Pirie
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: 6739264 on August 17, 2007, 11:39:41 AM
231- primary response for RCR
     only has has RCR gear with some storm damage gear built on an isusu 550 base

What extra RCR gear do you carry on here (Other than the standard stowage)? eg. Air bags,spinal boards & first aid, air tools etc?

Combi Tool and a Ram... its RCR gear! ;)
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: sesroadcrashrescue on August 17, 2007, 03:02:02 PM
we have reciprosaws mutliple rams stabaliser bars some new thing from germany for cars no there side or roof medical equipment etc etc
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: sesroadcrashrescue on August 17, 2007, 03:06:13 PM
as you can see in the pic 231 and 233 are used now and the crusier tows the bikes unfortunitly we dont have enough trucks anymore since the bus was taken away and the f250 so we can always take both floats which means that at times some of the hourse team has to stay home or the bikes dont go.

did anybody go to the search at neals flat eudunda on wedensday??????

Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: squiddy on August 17, 2007, 03:55:05 PM
we have reciprosaws mutliple rams stabaliser bars some new thing from germany for cars no there side or roof medical equipment etc etc

I take it you were talking about the StabFast when you mentioned the thing from Germany? Nice piece of equipment.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: sesroadcrashrescue on August 17, 2007, 04:52:56 PM
yeah thats it i can never remember what its called but its very good havent had to use it yet at a job but have used it in training alot
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: uniden on August 17, 2007, 04:55:06 PM
What or who were they looking for at Neales Flat the other day? Did they find them/it?
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: sesroadcrashrescue on August 17, 2007, 05:07:23 PM
i cant tell you what we were looking for but we did find it well norlunga did
there was kapunda norlunga enfild metro south, tea tree gully, dog unit if i missed anybody im sorry
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Pipster on August 17, 2007, 05:18:41 PM
They were searching for a missing person - car left by the side of the road, and a suicide note in the car.

Body located later that day, somewhere in the vicinity of the car.

Pip
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: sesroadcrashrescue on August 17, 2007, 08:46:09 PM
pipster

how did you find that out?? and i didnt think emergency services should put information like that on the net or even in a chat with friends you dont know who could be reading things like this for all we know somebody related to the person could be a member.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: rescue5271 on August 17, 2007, 09:14:19 PM
You need to make sure that it has the new stripping on PPE/PPC which is in 3 sections otherwise you must wear a vest.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: sesroadcrashrescue on August 17, 2007, 09:20:53 PM
but isnt still night work on a road where a hivis vest?????
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: uniden on August 17, 2007, 10:37:34 PM
i cant tell you what we were looking for but we did find it well norlunga did
there was kapunda norlunga enfild metro south, tea tree gully, dog unit if i missed anybody im sorry

Whats the big secret ?? This information was probably broadcast over the scanner somewhere along the line.

They were searching for a missing person - car left by the side of the road, and a suicide note in the car.

Body located later that day, somewhere in the vicinity of the car.

Pip
pipster

how did you find that out?? and i didnt think emergency services should put information like that on the net or even in a chat with friends you dont know who could be reading things like this for all we know somebody related to the person could be a member.
Dont see the big issue here. No mention was made of the persons name or injuries found etc.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Firefrog on August 17, 2007, 10:51:09 PM
no issue 8-)
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: sesroadcrashrescue on August 17, 2007, 10:54:25 PM
at no time on the raido was it stated that we were looking for a body.
how would you feel if we were called to look for one of your family or friends who was missing and we found them dead. and then somebody posted it on here
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Pipster on August 17, 2007, 11:37:43 PM
Just stating the basic facts of the case.  I was busy dealing with the other end of that job, so I know a fair bit about it - a lot more than I posted - and info which I will not be posting either.

The friends of the victim were well aware of the circumstances of this case, long before the body was located...and I doubt highly if they would be sitting down reading through this site a few days after the case.

Pip

PS Don't assume that all knowledge re this case has come from a scanner or pager site - emergency services volunteers, by their nature, work in a diverse range of areas, and are hence privy to much information officially though their paid work
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: sesroadcrashrescue on August 17, 2007, 11:48:58 PM
im sory pip i since posting the msg have been infromed as to how you know how ever is it correct to post any information on the net about a job of that nature wither friends and family know what is going on or not??? i am under the understanding that even the small amount written can have massive implications latter as i have been to jobs were information even less then what you wrote has been leaked to the public and the reaction by services involved was not a plesent one to say the least

my opinion
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: 6739264 on August 18, 2007, 10:12:52 AM
Hmm, that StabFast looks interesting. Without taking things too far off topic, how is it better/different than either the FARA Side stabilizer, Holton Foot, or Imporvised Holton foot?

From the pics it looks like it would take a far while longer to set up and is more complex.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Pipster on August 18, 2007, 10:42:34 AM
im sory pip i since posting the msg have been infromed as to how you know how ever is it correct to post any information on the net about a job of that nature wither friends and family know what is going on or not??? i am under the understanding that even the small amount written can have massive implications latter as i have been to jobs were information even less then what you wrote has been leaked to the public and the reaction by services involved was not a plesent one to say the least

my opinion

I think you'll find that the bulk of the information I posted was actually released to the media....it'll probably make the local paper.

These days there seems to be a reluctance to talk about death, just in case we upset someone, somewhere....obviously, those who are dealing directly with the case (eg family, firends, emergency services personnel) don't need people making insensitive comments... however, the other side of the coin is that if no one speaks about death, when they have to deal with it, it becomes so much more difficult.

I deal regularly with death through my work - the odd murder, (too) many suicides, death through natural causes - and ranging in age from children through to the elderly, and ranging from a fresh body to a few weeks old.  Not talking about it in any form (in an appropriate forum) would not be good for my mental health.

I'm sorry if you found my previous posting upsetting - however, I do not believe that I have posted inappropriate information in this case.

Pip
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Alan (Big Al) on August 18, 2007, 03:24:27 PM
Hmm, that StabFast looks interesting. Without taking things too far off topic, how is it better/different than either the FARA Side stabilizer, Holton Foot, or Imporvised Holton foot?

From the pics it looks like it would take a far while longer to set up and is more complex.
Here is 2 pics from a VA we had the took about 3 or so minutes to set them up, extremely quick, i think about $1000 each too
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: 6739264 on August 18, 2007, 04:41:37 PM
Are those straps magnetised to the door?
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Alan (Big Al) on August 18, 2007, 05:29:07 PM
don't believe so, only seen them the once, but are much quicker to set up than the fara bar
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: 6739264 on August 18, 2007, 05:48:43 PM
MundCFS, lets go here: http://www.safirefighter.com/boards/index.php?topic=1402.0
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: sesroadcrashrescue on August 18, 2007, 07:49:51 PM
there are some hooks pn the straps that can be slid into positon and with the use of a hole punch you can pounch holes in to attach the hooks
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Lizzy on September 07, 2007, 08:46:27 PM
Keep it ontopic

Do any members of the SES find themselvs responding to clean up treas on houses of people who are not responsible enough to keep their houses in proper condition? ie being a free garden clean up service.

With the new CAD system these types of calls are slowing getting weeded out. The odd one still gets to us. Normally what my unit it does if we get there and its a gardening service job is give them a list of numbers of people to call that will do the job, and leave.

Sorry i have to put this straight. im in the same unit and we have never done that. if its a tree job on a house we always do it. the only time we hand out numbers is if we dont have the equiptment do complete the task.
yeh it is quiet annoying, and we have an unbelieveably long responce time but it does get done and it means that the fireys can b out protecting communitys from more important things.
in sayng that most of our ses unit r members of cfs aswell so its not like its the only thing we do but. 'hey, someone has to do it, right!'
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: bajdas on September 07, 2007, 09:19:29 PM
Keep it ontopic

Do any members of the SES find themselvs responding to clean up treas on houses of people who are not responsible enough to keep their houses in proper condition? ie being a free garden clean up service.

With the new CAD system these types of calls are slowing getting weeded out. The odd one still gets to us. Normally what my unit it does if we get there and its a gardening service job is give them a list of numbers of people to call that will do the job, and leave.

Sorry i have to put this straight. im in the same unit and we have never done that. if its a tree job on a house we always do it. the only time we hand out numbers is if we dont have the equiptment do complete the task.
yeh it is quiet annoying, and we have an unbelieveably long responce time but it does get done and it means that the fireys can b out protecting communitys from more important things.
in sayng that most of our ses unit r members of cfs aswell so its not like its the only thing we do but. 'hey, someone has to do it, right!'

At least it is good to see that the Adel Hills SES Unit is assisting another country unit at a showground demonstration in October. I understand the plan is for a pole derrick & some vertical harness demo.

It is also good to see you guys at the Adel Show & Clipsal500 events as well.

I am surprised at your comments because I have seen multi-taskings going to Adel Hills Unit during a storm night. Esp for flooding.

How long have you been with the Unit ?
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Lizzy on September 07, 2007, 10:47:00 PM
i have been in the unit since the start of the yr.  i know not very long but i have only missed 4 jobs!
our unit are known for trees. im not saying we dont get flooding we have had a few flood jobs this yr with the storms - but the flood work involves cutting down the fallen tree and putting plastic over it. but we basically get trees. and thats fine like i said. someone has to do it, and we dont mind helping out those who cant.
im not complaining, im just stating. everyone in our unit realise we respond to trees. and thats why our unit has members who live further away from LHQ. we usually get trees which arent always a high priority, if it is we have to wait its as easy as that but if its life threatening MFS will page closest cfs who will usually stop call us, thats fine!
we are all volunteers we need to get along, even if they do cut up a tree for us, coz atleast they go to it b4 it hurt someone rite?!
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: chook on October 11, 2007, 10:14:01 PM
Just to get the thread back on track :wink:.All SES units are different, each unit has different Standards of Emergency Response that they are responsible for. Different specialities (for example our unit provides boat support to the CFS in summer, including fighting fires from the water -we have a flotation pump and standard pumps of various sizes) we have USAR Cat 1 qualified people, a Lot of extra storm damage stuff including battens & nail guns, vertical qualified people + access gear, extra stretchers, backboards, Hand operated hydraulics, various battery operated tools, quick cut saw for TBO & some gear + qualified people for confine space. We also have pollution booms & people who can use them. This is on top of our normal RCR responsibilities & gear. Plus we have some highly qualified people in land search, map reading, Navigation.
One of our neighbouring units has quad bikes, extra boats, Light towers, traffic lights and specialise in heavy RCR (i.e very difficult extrication's, multiple extrication's & heavy transport major incidents by backing up the first response) they have a high level of RCR equipment, would make any unit/brigade envious :-D.
Another unit specialises in vertical ( has the gear, people, etc) and again back up the first responding unit in that task or any other task.
The last one specialises in Land search, ex specially in boats.
Several years ago we decided to specialise in different areas to reduce the amount of duplication.
As you can see there is more to SES than cutting up trees :-D. Cheers chook
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: 24pumper on January 01, 2008, 03:38:08 PM
Chook,
CFS have a system where training numbers are limited to what management believe is necessary to achieve the job (Standards of Fire & Emergency Cover). So set a minimun and maximum number of people to be trained in things like CABA. Just wondering if SES also have a limit on numbers of people for training and if so does it impact on the ability to perform emergency responces??
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: chook on January 01, 2008, 04:00:08 PM
The short answer is no. However there are certain courses that our unit for example can't attend i.e. air observer.
As there are a number of primary roles that all units must forfill then it is expected that all rescue members would be qualified if able - General Rescue is 1.
There is a number of secondary type roles that certain units perform - RCR is an example again it would be expected that all Unit rescue members would attempt this course. However non RCR units have not had much success sending people on this course - they are usually very low priority.
Finally there are some very specialised roles like Air observer that have limited numbers.
There are a number of non rescue roles within the service, those members who do not wish to be rescuers would forfill these roles.
Depending on the size of the Unit there could be one or more of thes positions e.g we only have two on the books & won't accept any more without very good reasons.
Really its up to the unit manager to decide how many of each skill the unit requires & who attends courses; currently there is a study going on to determine the numbers required accross all units. No one in our region as far as I know has reached a "ceiling"
Thanks for the question cheers
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: 24pumper on January 01, 2008, 05:03:57 PM
Cheers,
For example in CFS if you have 4 CABA sets, then generally mangement determine that 2x (eg 8) is enough CABA trained for a brigade, this is the minimum number however once you have 8 trained it is very difficult to train any more. I have also heard that RCR training is similar.. Not sure if MFS retained have similar restirctions on doing training courses??Can make things difficult as in a volunteer environment oyu never know who will turn up for a job, even if you train a member with great availabilty it doesnt mean they will always have good availability.. I gues it comes down to money in the end.. only a certain ammount of cash for training to go around.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: chook on January 01, 2008, 05:13:35 PM
Nup we don't have that problem - metro may be different though as they are bigger units. As I said its up to the unit manager, if you meet the prereqs & there is a vacancy on the course your on :-D.
We are currently looking for at least 4 more RCR operators, 3-4 vertical, usar cat 1's, Cat 2's etc.
The good news is with firies RPL & RCC come into play, so in my unit at least you can expect to be fast tracked if you work out ok that is - 3 months probation :-(. But no we don't have any ceiling - yet :wink:
cheers
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: 6739264 on January 01, 2008, 05:41:33 PM
Can't you get most people trained in USAR Cat 1?

Pretty basic course and nothing like the Cat 2.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: chook on January 01, 2008, 06:09:06 PM
Yep you are right of course, that was a subtle way of saying more members :wink:
Thought there might be some local FF's who would be interested in something different. My apologies for trying some quiet poaching :-D
cheers
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Jimmy on January 01, 2008, 10:39:37 PM
As training coordinator for my unit hopefully I can shed some more light on the situation. I've never heard of an upper limit on unit numbers of any particular skill. At the same time though, when a course is oversubscribed I think unit existing capability is taken into consideration.

There are some conditions to some roles that mean that not all units can nominate thier members for them, RCR is limited to units with RCR responsibilities (although I have heard some non-RCR units have been able to get members on courses with low numbers though this is meant to be stopped at region level), air observers need to be within 30 minutes of Mt Gambier, Port Lincoln or Adelaide airports. Air observer courses are reserved for members with a proven commitment to SES at my unit, partly due to the costs placed on the unit for the medical clearance etc. My training budget is blown each year with just First Aid courses let alone any other expenses.

At the same time state funding for courses is based on the percieved need for training in these areas. If a region is low on vertical access (for example) personel they are more likely to get a State funded Vertical Access course in thier region. So if it is percieved that there are enough trained people in an area there will not be state funding for that course, thereby effectivly capping the numbers.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: chook on January 02, 2008, 04:31:21 PM
Yes Jimmy, you are correct, if oversubscribed then there is a priority placed on potential attendee's.
And yes courses are based on the areas risk (that is why shoring is not on our high prioriy list - yet).
I had a talk with someone from regional HQ, who is also a CFS vollie & he explained the CFS system. So the final answer to the question posed is NO SES does not operate like that.
cheers
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: SA Firey on January 02, 2008, 08:47:08 PM
Well lets see I did my Basic Rescue Course,was never issued with my certificate,attended training every Tuesday night,was given a pager and was responding to jobs,then pager was taken back because we dont have enough :?,then we had paging buddies if your buddy wasnt able to respond he/she was supposed to ring you-never happened,then they were ringing me to respond to jobs,then that stopped,then wonder why I stopped coming to training...YOUR LOSS BOYS :mrgreen: 

No letter or reply from an organisation who calls themselves professionals after repeated requests.

Thank god for the CFS.....of which I am now a Life Member :-D
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: chook on January 02, 2008, 09:00:24 PM
Mate that is a filtered disgrace, and I guess there is nothing I could say to undo the damage caused. That would not happen in my unit and the organisation is improving. Please don't judge us all by what  happen to you.
cheers
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: SA Firey on January 02, 2008, 09:12:44 PM
Its true what they say cant be a member of both :wink:
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Benji on January 02, 2008, 10:39:23 PM
Its true what they say cant be a member of both :wink:

There is nothing stopping you, we have a number of dual service members (Even had a tri service memeber)at our unit.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: SA Firey on January 02, 2008, 11:05:51 PM
Its true what they say cant be a member of both :wink:

There is nothing stopping you, we have a number of dual service members (Even had a tri service memeber)at our unit.

You obviously missed it...I WAS a member of both but my above post already explains it... :roll:
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Benji on January 03, 2008, 07:29:50 AM
You know I did infact read that post first.. geez Im going back to bed.. :oops:
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: chook on January 03, 2008, 08:18:09 PM
Its alright mate - we understand :-D
For those of you who are SES members & are on this forum, what happened to SAFIREY should not have happened. Yes there are always reasons (excuses :wink:).
If we want to be treated as equals by the other services then need to be professional.
That means as individuals, teams, units, regions or as an organisation!
It doesn't take much to take someone aside and explain the situation, follow up shortages of equipment, issue certificates or if someone doesn't fit explain to them why and wish them the best (not saying that applied in this case :-D). After all we are volunteers that are prepared to give up a lot for little reward, so it is the least we can do!
Now I don't know the full story behind this particular incident e.g sharing pagers?
But now a whole heap of people have a perception of our service which is to say the least not flattering. Sadly this is not the first time I have heard of this type of stuff  happening, so we need to improve or people will stop volunteering!
So the next time something doesn't feel right asked the question, talk to unit management or what ever. In other words do something! after all people are our most valuable asset. Here endth the lesson :-D
cheers
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Ashes on July 20, 2011, 10:13:05 PM
Sorry to add to an old thread, but am doing some study on SES Units and would like to get some basic info.
What is the Unit building called, ie shed, building or station etc, and how does the vehicle numbering go, where the vehicle has a two digit number but the callsign is three.
Thanks in advance.

Ashes
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: USAR123 on July 20, 2011, 11:08:23 PM
Sorry to add to an old thread, but am doing some study on SES Units and would like to get some basic info.
What is the Unit building called, ie shed, building or station etc, and how does the vehicle numbering go, where the vehicle has a two digit number but the callsign is three.
Thanks in advance.

Ashes

I don't know what other SES units call their buildings but we call ours either unit, HQ or LHQ.

The 2 digit number relates to the type and number of the vehicle. Similar rip off from the CFS and MFS.

41
4 = 4x4 1 = vehicle number in the unit
31
3 = Truck 1 = vehicle number in the unit
91 = The SES hook lift
61 = The flat bed truck?

hope this helps a bit
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: bajdas on July 22, 2011, 01:54:38 AM
Sorry to add to an old thread, but am doing some study on SES Units and would like to get some basic info.
What is the Unit building called, ie shed, building or station etc, and how does the vehicle numbering go, where the vehicle has a two digit number but the callsign is three.
Thanks in advance.

Ashes

The Unit buildings make up a 'Local Headquarters' (LHQ) for a Unit. Same naming since Civil Defence days.

Then have four 'Regional Headquarters' (RHQ), but multiple 'Regional Control Centres' (RCC).

One 'State Headquarters' (SHQ) and one 'State Control Centre' (SCC). Both currently in Waymouth Street. The 'State Communications Centre' is currently in Wakefield Street.

I will look up my Comms documentation for the exact SA SES vehicle numbering details. If any different from below, I will correct this posting.

But from memory:

* first number designates vehicle type.
    2 = two wheel drive (eg car, dog transport, etc)
    3 = salvage/general rescue truck
    4 = four wheel drive (eg light rescue)
    6 = special truck (eg Field Command bus, flat bed truck, hook lift, cherry picker, etc)
    9 = Road Crash Rescue (matches MFS coding)

* second number designates number of vehicle in Unit fleet. For example the second 4wd in Enfield SES is ENF 42

I believe this was developed after Virginia floods when management could not tell from radio callsigns, what type of vehicle was responding and thus its capability.

Difficult to load sandbags from a vehicle setup for Road Crash or go to a flooded area in a Commodore.
    
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: HeavyRescue on August 23, 2012, 02:29:08 PM
Sorry for bringing up an old thread.
But I would like to know what the codes mean at the end of a pager message for SES.
Eg. MRB20 H SNOTIFY E / NOA20 M SNOTIFY C / OLO20 B SNOTIFY C.
I understand the unit code (murray bridge / noarlunga etc) but what are the H Snotify C things?
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: bajdas on August 23, 2012, 03:58:08 PM
Part left over of the old Regions. This has now changed recently to two Regions & 10 Divisions that paid staff work in now. ut pager codes have not been updated to reflect this, but I think it does not really matter.

Each pager message is duplicated to paid regional staff on duty. This enables them to keep track of Unit workloads and any taskings that require more assistance.

I believe:
SNOTIFY C = State Notify Central region
SNOTIFY E = State Notify East region

Certain taskings (eg Marine Rescue) also automatically page the paid State Duty Officer as well as the regional.
 
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: HeavyRescue on August 23, 2012, 04:32:25 PM
thanks for that. but what about the letters at the end of the vehicle codes?
eg. WAD20 Z  /  EAS20 U  /  TTG20 S  ??
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Alex on August 23, 2012, 04:51:10 PM
To be able to stack their jobs SES wanted multiple resources per unit in SACAD.  26 letters in the alphabet, so 27 unit resources (one without a letter).
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: CFS_Firey on August 23, 2012, 08:30:24 PM
To be able to stack their jobs SES wanted multiple resources per unit in SACAD.  26 letters in the alphabet, so 27 unit resources (one without a letter).

So for WAD20 Z, would that mean there are 27 stacked jobs, or would that just be the 27th job that day?
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: Alex on August 24, 2012, 02:12:20 AM
To be able to stack their jobs SES wanted multiple resources per unit in SACAD.  26 letters in the alphabet, so 27 unit resources (one without a letter).

So for WAD20 Z, would that mean there are 27 stacked jobs, or would that just be the 27th job that day?

No. Doesn't necessarily mean either as they don't generally go out in alphabetic order.

One is picked by the system, i was told some time back of a 'time-breaker' rule, which chose whichever appropriate resource had been available in that zone and in an available status the longest.

You may notice in CFS land at any CFS station with two or more appliances of the same type & attributes they will get differant appliances for the same type of job from time to time; ie a rubbish/waste event in Coromandel Valley may get their 24 one day and their 24P the next, as they are both HTs with the same attributes in the same zone when K5. It will pick whichever resource has been K5 the longest.


I hope this helps.
Title: Re: SES familiarisation thread
Post by: NicholasBerry on January 28, 2013, 03:19:14 AM
In regards to what units do... Noarlunga SES also does USAR and Swiftwater Rescue

In regards to vehicles:
Noarlunga also have 5 Vehicles:
- Noarlunga 31 (Isuzu 550 FFS Crew) Used for flood and Storm
- Noarlunga 32 (Isuzu 550 FSS Crew) Used for USAR and building impacts
- Noarlunga 41 (Nissan Navara) Used as a general rescue 4wd
- Noarlunga 42 (Toyota Landcruiser)Used as a vertical rescue 4wd
- Noarlunga 43 (Ford F250)Used for towing USAR Trailer

We have 6 trailers
- USAR
- BA
- Swiftwater
- Lighting
- flood and Storm
- Spare trailer