SA Firefighter
General Discussion => Country Fire Service => Topic started by: pumprescue on February 08, 2012, 11:44:56 AM
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So here we are, new Chief, same old rubbish. Does anyone out there actually think there is a positive future for the CFS, or do we just give up now and revert back to the old bushfire brigade status.
Has anyone actually seen any positive developments. Those urban brigades that don't have MFS covering them, do you actually think you will ever get what you truly need.
Those rural brigades, is the way the CFS operates helping you or is it to the point where your better off just having your own slip on for the odd fire you get?
What is the vision for the future? What are your views, not a whinge, not overated never going to happen ideas, just the genuine feel from your brigade, and what feed back are you getting from the regions ?
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I'll admit I think I come from a pretty good region, given the negative comments that everyone else seems to have about theirs.
Our regional staff and commander are quite progressive and strive for continual improvement.
Yes, there seems to be a public service and "jobs for the boys" mentatility in Waymouth St.
As long as the CFSVA remains a toothless tiger and does what it's executive want to happen, and not what the rank and file want, we will never get any better. There is no one fighting for the fire fighter on the end of a hose/rake hoe / rcr extraction tool.
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You must be from region 2, I agree too many agendas from empire builders makes it hard to stand as a united front, some groups call other groups wannabes whilst other call other groups banjo playing numpties, so whilst that is happening, and staff that "seem" to not want to push anything we are just deteriorating into almost nothing, or at least a mere shadow of our former selves.
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I think the last couple of years we've been heading more and more back to the "old days" of brigades/groups doing their own thing, mainly driven by the fact we have such incompetent staff. However for my brigade that's not such a bad thing, we're happy to tick along making small improvements to the way we operate, ignoring anything above group level and just get on with the job.
One positive thing of such poor management and leadership (sic) from HQ/region is I that can see my neighbouring brigades (and group officers) working together probably better than ever before.
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You must be from region 2
probably, but could be R6, you don't hear a lot about R6 (well I don't anyway) but since the 2005 Eyre Peninsula fires I get the impression from talking to people, they've come a long way.
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Yes region 2 is good :-D also you don't hear a peep from region 4 either
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Obviously the future is going to hinge hugely on $$$$ I'm really not sure where it is going to go!
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Just have to read the SFEC discussion papers that are up on the CFS members site to get an indication of where some members wish the CFS to go in the future. Seems quite confusing at the moment, on one side you have the Chief writting bloggs stating that the CFS also does all these Urban type response roles such as chemical spills and RCR, then we have these clowns trying to turn us back into a "Bush Fire Brigade".
Certainly not presenting a united front.
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maybe the Chief should get out and drag more hose and write less Blogs
Given that all the other Regions seem fine and dandy.....must just be Region 1 thats filtered then :-P
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Well there is probably some truth to that MR T, but as a service overall, where are we going. Are we heading down the path of being like the RFS where we just concentrate on Rural with the odd truck equipped with BA and leave the urban risk to the MFS?
I just feel after 17 years in the CFS that when there used to be some form of hope that we might take things seriously, that really now there is no hope, and what is the point of really trying.
Why do the CFS bother persisting with pretending to have an urban part to their fire service. Why do they bother getting the information on the risks and training that they need but only ask with a little tiny mouse voice for any help or money.
I don't know, I guess maybe its time to stop smashing our heads against the wall and hand it over?
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Well it seems there will be a forum held in march at Salisbury Cfs station to discuss this exact topic!
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Yes, but is it going to do anything, why do we have Salisbury and the likes when other areas that actually need to CFS funding can't get a look in. Talk about duplication of resources, same with having MFS in some 1 horse towns. Come on lets get the mix right ! You can't tell me a meeting of CFS volunteers from those brigades are willingly going to sit down and say ok so no we can't do it, we will hand this risk over to MFS, and we are willing to stay on as a rural and support brigade.
This whole mess needs looking at without ego's and weekend warriors.
So much wasted money, in all SAFECOM agencies.
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I'm 200 km away from Salisbury and got notified of it ..
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Salisbury was chosen as it can hold a large amount of people not so much because it has a certain type of volunteer. However ti is a good opportunity to hear from some experienced people who have been in other types of fire service model. It is a start and at least we can make an opinion before the government forces theirs upon us eg MFS comcen ...,
Also we all know $$$ seem to be being ripped out of SAFECOM and that was the last fire service model the Government tried :?
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Salisbury was chosen as it can hold a large amount of people not so much because it has a certain type of volunteer. However ti is a good opportunity to hear from some experienced people who have been in other types of fire service model. It is a start and at least we can make an opinion before the government forces theirs upon us eg MFS comcen ...,
Also we all know $$$ seem to be being ripped out of SAFECOM and that was the last fire service model the Government tried :?
I'm sorry....Salisbury can hold how many??...100 people or so?? Why on earth not hold this in a neutral venue that can hold 400 in a Northern Area, and the same in a Southern Area over 2 nights, and heaven forbid you could even hold it in the country and get an opinion from people out there too.
Good on you CFSVA, you have the market cornered in halfarsed
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Traditionally CFS vollies have had a pretty poor attendance at thess sort of things so I would think 100 is a pretty good number to start with.
And CFS stations are also Cheep :-D :evil:
And where in the country? R5 R4 R6 ????
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Anyone head along today?? Anything come out of it??
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Yep went along out of interest. Must have been possibly 110-120 there, although there was probably room for about 160ish. Discussed were different models which could be applied to the CFS by different speakers from various states / fire services.
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Were any CFS staff present ?
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Were any CFS staff present ?
A few.
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The Country Fire Service is slowly dying.
MFS manage call, receive, dispatch so if there is a boundary call who's side of the road do you think the job will be!
SACAD is written heavily leaning towards MFS and because CFS did not and still does not fully understand the model and will now and into the future get bent over by MFS.
Whilst CFS management in town do not have the ability to run the CFS as a business and look at growth by changing the service model provided to the community and slowly hand over to the MFS and let the UFU boss around both services watch the CFS slowly die!
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The Country Fire Service is slowly dying.
MFS manage call, receive, dispatch so if there is a boundary call who's side of the road do you think the job will be!
Who ever's gazetted area it is.
Whilst CFS management in town do not have the ability to run the CFS as a business and look at growth by changing the service model provided to the community and slowly hand over to the MFS and let the UFU boss around both services watch the CFS slowly die!
Sure the CFS doesn't need to exist in the future but who is going to cover the huge areas of the state that don't justify a 24/7 crew?
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The Country Fire Service is slowly dying.
MFS manage call, receive, dispatch so if there is a boundary call who's side of the road do you think the job will be!
SACAD is written heavily leaning towards MFS and because CFS did not and still does not fully understand the model and will now and into the future get bent over by MFS
Mate it seems to me you might not have much if an idea what you are talking about.
Firstly if you really believe that MFS comms cares who's area a job is in your quite mistaken. Jobs are placed against SACAD maps as accurately as possible based on information available and resources responded per the data input from mfs, ses and CFS. If there is then deemed to be a issue with the response plan that may put lives or property at risk it will be changed by the comms officer and appropriate paperwork lodged with notifications to regions if necessary.
Re the sytstem being written and leaning heavily towards MFS, once again you may have been misinformed. The software is not designed or written by any one agency, it was purchased from an external provider and then customized with input from all three agencIes concerned to meet there needs. Any issues with responses are not the fault of the "MFS", responsibility falls on those who have provided data.
I read a set of minutes from a recent CFS meeting where quite a few comments were of an almost slanderous nature towards what they called "Adelaide fire operators", as a person who is both a CFS vollunteer of twelve years, ex-CFS staff and currently employed by the MFS I was pretty disappointed to see all of this when I feel MFS Comcen does it's best to facilitate the needs of all three services operationally, with the training and the facilities provided and the data & response plans that have been entered by all agencies.
Perhaps you and your brigade should organize a visit to the Comcen to clear up any misconceptions. Feel free to organize it on a night when I'm there and I will assist with a tour.
Hopefully I have not misread or taken your comment the wrong way.
Alex
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Alex you've sort of misread what I had to say by no means am I having a go at any Adelaide Fire Comm's Officer you are at the bottom of the process. My rant is with the the hierarchy of this states fire services.
I've heard differently off the record from Comm's operators that will go unnamed due to working in Adelaide Fire that they've been told by the Officer to put the job on the MFS side of the boundary!
Understand the software was written by an external provider but it’s the data entered into that given software!
I’ve been to CFS meetings in the past in regards to the interface on the urban fringe told one thing by CFS and now almost the exact opposite has occurred due to CFS either not being fully informed or telling volunteer stations one thing and doing the other!
For example “boundaries will become faded and the nearest and most appropriate will be responded” therefore CFS can also remove “EMA”. Then brigades question why are they not responded metres from there station and the answer of the legislative gazettal takes priority over any agreement relating to the nearest and most appropriate (SOP and MOU).
So now MFS appliances get responded almost right up to CFS brigades with no CFS resources used and now we are seeing single MFS appliances being responded right into CFS areas where 2 or more CFS appliances are also being responded. I now hear it will be 2 MFS appliances for structure fires in CFS area, so how far?
I understand both services have a duty of care to the general public but if these urban fringe brigades are not utilized properly then morale will drop even lower. If we are not using these brigades effectively shall we get rid of them? Then that becomes a double edged sword unfortunately if you don’t use these urban fringe brigades on a regular basis so they maintain their skills and knowledge what happens when MFS has those large incidents? Where they require CFS to do COQ into the metropolitan area will these brigades then be appropriate into the future or CFS brigades further out that lack even less urban fire fighting skills, experience and knowledge. Also these brigades provide large numbers for strike teams and numbers to HAZMAT incidents in the state.
All I'm saying the service provided to the community across the state could be done a lot better if resources were managed with more fiscal prudence and strategic effectiveness whether it is full-time, retained or volunteer.
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So now MFS appliances get responded almost right up to CFS brigades with no CFS resources used and now we are seeing single MFS appliances being responded right into CFS areas where 2 or more CFS appliances are also being responded. I now hear it will be 2 MFS appliances for structure fires in CFS area, so how far?
Aren't you talking about mutual aid areas?
Maybe the CFS areas in question have problems getting a crew?
Yeah, CFS has BA operators but what are the trucks urban pumping capabilities?
How far into urban environments are some of the CFS Brigades?
Have you seen some of the CFS/MFS boundaries and the risks on the CFS side?
Are you worried that you can't tell anyone that you are a firefighter anymore?
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Fly on the wall sorry to disappoint but I'm actually paid and volunteer...
I think we could just have a better model of fire and rescue response in this state. Some paid stations could be retained, some retained could be volunteer or the other way some volunteer could be retained to cover the individuals cost then once those retained stations become too busy they could become paid!
CFS and MFS duplicate some services in both HQ's that could be cut as well!
To answer your questions
Maybe the CFS areas in question have problems getting a crew? NO
Yeah, CFS has BA operators but what are the trucks urban pumping capabilities?
Some have pumper and some have 34P's which dont cut the mustard but they can be found deep in CFS area's in large country towns so change is required there!
How far into urban environments are some of the CFS Brigades?
urban fringe think that pretty much explains it!
Have you seen some of the CFS/MFS boundaries and the risks on the CFS side?
Bit of a broad range and diverse statement!
Are you worried that you can't tell anyone that you are a firefighter anymore?
As above both paid and vol!
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Bundy old mate, think you have been sucked into the raving lunatic CFS world, what you say does not happen, I swear to god some of these CFS goons sit there and make stuff up just for the fun of it.
CFS is a lost cause, if it wasn't for the fact it was the only fire protection my town has available I sure as hell wouldn't be a part of it.
Run by volunteers who are raving lunatics, just read the minutes Alex was alluding too, not a single one of them has the community in mind at all, its all about the EGO.
God I can't wait until the MFS walk into my town and take it over, the CFS is a joke, a sick joke!
This is me talking as a CFS Volunteer of 17 years service!
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I think we could just have a better model of fire and rescue response in this state. Some paid stations could be retained, some retained could be volunteer or the other way some volunteer could be retained to cover the individuals cost then once those retained stations become too busy they could become paid!
.....WTF?
..... paid become retained, retained become volunteers and then volunteers become retained, finally retained become paid. :?
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You could close some retained and leave it to the CFS and make some CFS day crew retained, but good luck telling a retained station that they are now volunteer "by the way you got paid for it last week but now we want you to do it for free"
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I'll try to come back to topic!......
First and foremost, I have not had anything to do with the CFS. My only experiences with the CFS have been responding with CFS crews to calls and working with CFS crews at incidents, so I cannot comment on how the management operates the CFS as a whole.
I can only comment on what I have read, both in the paper and on this forum. I have worked as a volunteer and understand the issues that come with volunteering, both internally and externally. There are always issues between induvidual brigades/units/stations, and the good old 'recognition' of the service that has been provided free of charge.
Now back to the topic,
.....a future to look forwards to?....
From my outsiders point of view, each time I see a story in the paper regarding the CFS, it always seems to be a whinge about something. Last time I recall an article that I read was something along the lines of - the CFS is having issues with the SACAD system and are being overwhelmed by the amount of calls that the CFS is attending. Yes, there are issues but complaining about how many calls the service is now going to,..... I mean, C'mon. I do realise this is coming from the management but this is what is being put out there to the public.
I have personally attended jobs and heard the CFS guys say " If this is not a going job, we don't want to be responded " - this was in one of those urban fringe areas that is CFS area.
All that ever seems to happen on this forum is people whinging. From what I have picked up on here, it seems that the CFS is one big circus being run by each brigade because no one knows what the management is doing. Unfortunately, I believe that without a solid foundation, the house will never be straight and in the CFS' case, the footings are crooked and until everyone is reading the same page, your future looks dim and might even collapse one day.
My opinion from the outside looking in.
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I agree with the last part of your post, CFS still operates as 450 seperate fire brigades, until that changes we won't go anywhere but backwards.
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Why not just have the SAFS? Run all the fire services under one roof and that way everything is more consistent and streamlined?
A SAAS volunteer has the same uniform, callsign, qualification (in some cases), ambulance and equipment as the paid staff. They get sent into paid station areas and vice versa. It doesn't seem that hard?
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Why not just have the SAFS? Run all the fire services under one roof and that way everything is more consistent and streamlined?
A SAAS volunteer has the same uniform, callsign, qualification (in some cases), ambulance and equipment as the paid staff. They get sent into paid station areas and vice versa. It doesn't seem that hard?
3 reasons it would never happen.
1. U
2. F
3. U
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It would if it involved gaining more paid staff members and more paying members....
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If that were the case (having one fire service) I would bet my house on it that the CFS would still run like the CFS - 450 brigades doing their own thing.
Can we start by rubbing out the urban fringe brigades?
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If that were the case (having one fire service) I would bet my house on it that the CFS would still run like the CFS - 450 brigades doing their own thing.
Can we start by rubbing out the urban fringe brigades?
I don't think you'd get too much argument from any of the urban fringe Brigades about turning up as Volunteers in Blue. In terms of systems, training, equipment, vehicles and support they would be 100% ahead of where they are now.
If you are talking about them being paid - not sure what planet you're on or what paper you read.....where do u think the extra $1.5mill per station just to cover wages of 4 people per shift is going to come from?