SA Firefighter
General Discussion => Country Fire Service => Topic started by: pumprescue on July 05, 2006, 06:36:46 PM
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Hi there
I have noticed in various forum topics that CFS members (especially Stirling members) seem to have an issue with Mt Barker, they seem to want them to shut their doors, remember which brigade is between Glen Osmond and Mt Barker and is struggling for crew especially during the day.....Other CFS brigades dont want to push this Take Over or they can pack their bags as well. Yes Mt Barkers days are numbered but let the guys do the job until then.
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From an outsider to the politics of this situation and a person always interested in an opportunity.....DONT LET ANY EMERGENCY SERVICE VOLUNTEER BE LOST BY CHANGES....get them to transfer if needed...their volunteer experience would always be welcome in a USAR and other rescue roles...lost volunteers and their experience will always hurt South Australia in the longer term.
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Andrew your right, the thing our fellow brothers don't realise is when they are screaming for help at a big job where is your back up, not coming from a service who wont leave their town, if you have bigger volunteer numbers in adjoining brigades you can have the support.
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i think its sad in this day and age how some brigade will not come and help mind you they are only down the road and we should help each other. Now if my memory is correct it was not long ago that stirling brigade where asking for support at a council meeting about its future in that town????.. MOUNT BARKER keep up the good work....
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I think frankly, you're a complete idiot.
Edit, to add some content: Care to point out where Stirling members, specifically, have an issue with Mt. Barker?
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Now Toast don't take that to heart buddy, I just laugh that Mt Barker brigade can still get bagged by fellow brigades even when they can get 2 trucks out the door fully crewed in good time to most jobs and stand strong against all the crap thrown at it recently
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Thats half the problem has stirling bagged mount barker or is there a rat in here???? We should all support each other no matter what the problem is....
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I'm not taking anything to heart. I just don't like people who can't back up things that they say, especially when they point out specific brigades.
Mind you, the fact a brigade can get two trucks out the door doesn't mean a thing about their prowess on the fire ground :wink:
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:lol:
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I believe in the last thread, Mt. Barker MFS:
http://www.safirefighter.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=53&topic=526.0
The two Stirling blokes I know of on here, along with nearly everyone else, were rather supportive of Mt. Barker? Not to mention the fact that they can crew better than most brigades out there...?
Oh pumprescue, what ARE you on about?
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(http://www.fishraider.com.au/Invision/style_emoticons/default/1fishing1.gif)
^^pumprescue
ya got them mate, hook line and sinker... your mean ya know.
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Yep, shitstirring on the internet... it's a great way to pass time :roll:
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It sure is but it may come back and bite you on the rear....
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Especially on this website which seems to get talked about a lot out of here and taken to heart.
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let's get back to some constructive discussion. Accusation and negative talk is a bit too easy. It is very easy to bag people but I suggest we don't fall victim to tall poppy syndrome or tribalism.
Thread will be locked or deleted if we can't get friendly.
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Both service's need each other,if we look at MFS in mount gambier they call on the CFS for help alot as they did today with a house fire. It does not matter if they are full time or retain members we all can work as a team,Can't we????
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red truck, white truck. No difference if someone is colour blind....
WHy should there be a differnce to those who can see and perform just as well as each other.
Is the problem from the older members hwo grew up in the were different era cause it seems most dont seem to have an issue with calling other brigades, services.
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PF: I dont think its a age thing its just that some sections of each service dont get along and its time they did.
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Yeah I think oyure right. By the way I wasnt insinuating all older people have a problem.
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Well we had a pretty big house fire yesterday down here in the Mount. All of our red trucks were there and we needed help. We got Moorak and Compton CFS to the scene and Yahl for change of quarters. Everyone worked together well and we appreciate having the help down here from the CFS when we need it.
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Is Mt Gambier going completely full time or just during the day time?
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During the day only,but the reatin guys still have to turn out to all call outs...Is that correct athol?
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The full timers will only work Mon-Fri 8.30-4.30. Retained people will still respond to jobs as there is only going to be 1 crew of full timers. Outside of these hours and on public holidays will just be the retainers.
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Are they allowed to respond out of working hours if they want?
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Pretty sure they are not allowed to because it would work out as a triple shift i guess.
work 8 hours then spend 5 hours at a large fire then go back to work the next morning i doubt they would be too happy
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Short answer no. If you are a retained firefighter and you get a full time firefighter role with the MFS you have to resign as a retainer. Otherwise they would have to pay you overtime rates for the calls you respond to as a retained firie. Apart from that we need a full complement of retained people as well as the full timers on the books.
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The problem with the CFS is that you can't guarantee a response... you might get the truck out the door 9.9999% of calls, but as long as a chance exists that no-one responds, you can't guarantee it... Thats the reason the MFS would move in...
No one is bagging Mt Barker CFS, they evidently do an excellent job, but because of the nature of the CFS, the government has a responsibility to provide a paid service if needed.
When a town expands to a certain size, or has a huge amount of assets, the government will (or should) provide the best protection - and that is a full time paid service.
If Mount Barker want to get defensive and blame other brigades that are having crewing issues, then thats their problem...
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No no no... Regardless of how many members a volunteer brigade have, they can never *guarantee* a crew. Yes places like Barker do a great job of *usually* getting both appliances out the door, but still they do have times where they are short on crew. We had all our rescue crew at a certain bus down hill exercise, had an RCR, defaulted to Barker, they only had 1 rcr person on the truck. It may not happen often, but it still CAN happen.
In terms of callout numbers, the word on the street is that Barker is just a smidge over 300/310.
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so how many times have stirling defaulted in the last 6 months???
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so how many times have stirling defaulted in the last 6 months???
What has that got to do with MFS takover?
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so how many times have stirling defaulted in the last 6 months???
Christ you Barker boys have some issues. As long as no-one starts talking about actually fighting fires, you'll be fine.
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Who cares if a lot of calls are alarms. This doesnt mean that most of them are justified calls. The alarm usually activates for a reason. Yeah burnt toast may set it off but it is just doing its job and picking up smoke. A high percentage of MFS calls are alarms too.
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I'd rather go to hundreds of false alarms than see someones home burn down.
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well im perfect...
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Not too perfect :lol:
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Thin ice here!
Let's work on encouraging each other and avoid the pitfalls of tribalism. eg "my tribes better than your tribe".....That thinking is just silly. Thread will be closed if the tone doesn't change.
Thanks now back to the topic.... 8-)
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honestly, i believ an MFS station in mt barker is necessary. It doesn't have to be a wakefield street setup, all it needs to be is a one truck station with a standard scania pumper, nothing more, nothing less. I don't think anyone is suggesting we eradicate barker, just modify their setup to a more rural one, with a 24, 34p and a QAV for small grassies. with that setup, chances are barker would still get precious numbers as they would backup the MFS if an incident was large. as manuel said, hahndorf, l/hampton, nairne are all close by as well if things got nasty at a job.
I feel just having that full time crew there would do the job.
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^^ in 5 - 10 years...
so until then...
personally i think theyd have to go the christies type set up. with a 1 and a 9... actually m,ight as well go all out and have a 3 as well...
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WhenMFS go to MT Barker they would probably be set up like awler (now it seems tribal) Just a standard brick station with a 9. Need a rescue/Hazmat type for the SE Freeway.
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No one can dispute the fact that MFS will move into Mt Barker and Seaford, it's happening so lets get over it.
They will also take over RCR, if your not sure then have a look at the campaign the UFU has run over a number of years against the vollie rescue unit in Penrith.
http://www.rescuepenrith.com/ (http://www.rescuepenrith.com/)This site previously contained some pretty hostile info against the Penrith VRA , the UFU will push very very hard for full timers to take over rescue from vollies in the same area no matter how good a job the Barker boys are doing.
Maybe now would be a good time for the Barker brigade to start looking at another specialty - Rope Rescue, Hazmat, Lighting, BA Support or Catering :mrgreen:
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Maybe this will turn into a SAFECOM facility like Pt Lincoln's proposed new headquarters. :?
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Would be interesting to see what would happen with the rescue side of things.
If the Mt Barker station was only setup with a 9 i would doubt they would be keen on sending that appliance too far out of town for rescue.
Which to my thought Mt Barker CFS would keep there type 2 rescue for out of town rescues and a 34 and maybe a 14
Possibly a doubling up resources like we see in a few other places but until we all operate as one fire service under safecom im afraid thats what it would look like to me.
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Now was not mount barker hazmat before??? and they gave it up so as to do RESCUE calls only, along with other fire duties..May be have MFS/CFS in a new station in mount barker....
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Then they wouldnt be CFS anymore. And it would go against CFS morals.
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Why could you not have a paid full time CFS firefighter and have Volunteers in the same station??? works well else where in Australia....
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No one can dispute the fact that MFS will move into Mt Barker and Seaford, it's happening so lets get over it.
Well said Crankster, the cold hard facts are that over the next few years, there will be some SACFS brigades that will close (or have significant task reduction) in favour of SAMFS due to urban sprawl, this doesn't mean that vollies aren't doing a great job, but "Joe Public" pays for a service and he wants it!, so there's no use Gongbeating on about the "but if this and that's". Just focus on the task at hand, and get on with it
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well I personally think the biggest question is when, because Mount barker is one of the fastest growing towns in South Australia, it will no doubt happen unless the developments stop. I liked the suggestion of making them a Hazmat brigade before, as Heysen group does not have one, and it would be good to get Barker to work with Stirling on the freeway :|.
It would however be intresting the area in which they would cover, as towns near by are in reach, would this mean that we could lose up to three urban brigades?? as i said before if it is stationed on the freeway.
It would be interesting to see what area an MFS station would cover for rescue. Currently Barker has a rather large RCR coverage area, much like many others in the state. It makes sense for Barker to be HAZMAT, due to the industrial parts of town, although it would mean that there would be a large nuber of HAZMAT brigades in one area. Simply, Burnside (State HAZMAT, ok so its not a group/brigade resource, but still), Stirling, Oakbank/Balhanna and then further out, Strathalbyn. Would thiss mean that another brigade would lose its HAZMAT capabilities?
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Aren't all MFS stations Hazmat?
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Mount barker does cover a very large area, and to have a single truck MFS station would not work that well, unless there is some dual response, but with mount barker being RCR they cover all the way out to Kanmantoo way, which MFS would not go to even if they are RCR. Although Mount Barker is becoming a very large town, Areas which they cover include Wistow, and Mount Barker springs and if there was a house fire out there, the MFS trucks would firstly not be able to go up some of those roads. What would work however is put a CFS station at wistow, which could also cover some of the southern parts of Mount barker, and put the MFS station on the south eastern freeway.
?? who knows we can only guess?? :| :| :| :|
Any particular reason that MFS trucks can't get up the same roads that Barkers Heavy Urban and Medium Urban pumpers can get up? I assume by "on the freeway" you mean around the exit, near Anembo (sp?) park? Looking at RCR coverage in the CFS, its all a bit screwy. I mean Brker covering out to Kanmantoo Way, Stirling being second rescue to Dawsley... its a biiig drive.
Aren't all MFS stations Hazmat?
Not all MFS stations have HAZMAT capabilities, although all of the 'Country' Stations do. Depends on how they would class Barker I guess.
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Aren't all MFS stations Hazmat?
Not all MFS stations have HAZMAT capabilities, although all of the 'Country' Stations do. Depends on how they would class Barker I guess.
Hi all,
In relation to this, all SAMFS stations have a HazMat capability. All SAMFS General Purpose applainces (well Metro ops anyway, not 100% about regional ops) have 4x BA Sets (and spare cylinders), 4 x Splash suits, PVC & Nitrile gloves, overboots and some other assorted HazMat equipment. As well as a crew of 4 Fire-fighters with HazMat training. Some GP Appliances in addition to this also carry 2 x Gas Suits and atmospheric monitoring equipment. I presume regional stations are similar.
SK
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Ah very good, just going on what incorrect information I have.
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thanks SK :mrgreen:
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Well Gawler MFS go well out of their city limits to MVA`s. So why couldnt any new MFS stations like MB do the same??
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the differance is that Gawler is a rescue resource... im sure if MB were too, then they would cover a certain area to assist also.
the main differance is that its not too bad to send a COQ to gawler, whereas its a 25min drive for COQ to barker from any other MFS station...
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You could still COQ Barker with Pumpers from Bridgewater/Stirling. Both of which have rapid intervention gear on board. Not sure if Hahndorf has and RCR gear.
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hahndorf dont have any RCR...
COQ everytime they got a call would greatly increase call rates for nearby CFS though...
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You wouldn't COQ every time they got a call, only when they were out of their district for an RCR... remember they would still have Mt Barker CFS for fire cover...
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well then, why not MT barker cfs for rescue coverage?
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I think the suggestion was that they won't need rescue and Hazmat because MFS will cover that - but they will still be a fire service... So not CFS for rescue because they wouldn't be a rescue brigade...
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meh... why bother taking it away from them then...
there's an MFS station in kadina, and yet Kadina CFS are still the rescue resource for that area :wink:
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yeah but both kadina cfs and mfs are responded by pager....MT Barker would be full time there fore respond within the minute i guess.
Which would mean it would be silly to have the CFS still do rescue (at least for the city) as they couldnt respond as fast.
Not knowing what the RCR directory states but i would imagine the quickest responding service would be primary rescue.
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I say wait and see if MFS move there at all they may be looking for the land,but its up to SAFECOM.Me think the union is playong a scare campaine like they did years ago in Victoria and if you look there the MFB is now over run by CFA paid metro station with full Volunteer back up :evil:
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I would reckon that Mt Barker CFS will shut down completely and Mt Barker MFS would have 1 x full time pump/rescue, 1 x retained pump, 1 x retained 4x4 pump and maybe a 14 if they are lucky. They would cover a reasonable area for rescue but something else may have to be done, the retained pump would have RIV as well so that would cover the area until another rescue brigade got there.
I also heard the other day that MFS won't put a station at Mt Barker until they have a station in the Stirling/Bridgewater area so that they can back each other up. Maybe the MFS have changed their priorities to cover the areas that have crewing issues before covering the areas that don't.
I'm sure we will find out in the next 10 years.
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look at the posts from "a tough day for stirling" well maybe put one in Crafers 8-)
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not too sure about that tillerman - i believe they have mroe than enough isues arising in pt pirie, where there is a combination of full time and retained... just doesnt seem to work well.
the comment re; an MFS in the stirling/bridgie area makes sense though - would be much easier forthem to step up appliances for COQ
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Yes, a MFS station in Lofty Group would certainly be a viable and good option. The group does around about 1100 jobs a year. I'm not sure on the primary/support numbers but if a MFS crew was responded to most jobs we had they would be doing around 400-500 calls I believe. A central location with freeway access like Crafers/Stirling/Bridgewater would no doubt be the way to go.
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Ahh yes saw that now, i am sure that by the time they think about MFS in either area both Stirling and Mt Barker will be doing about 500-600 jobs a year and with the sourrounding brigades to those areas to back up an MFS station in both areas would find enough work to do.
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I also heard the other day that MFS won't put a station at Mt Barker until they have a station in the Stirling/Bridgewater area so that they can back each other up. Maybe the MFS have changed their priorities to cover the areas that have crewing issues before covering the areas that don't.
Its still a good 20 minute drive up to Mount Barker from Stirling in a truck, plus I'd think that Heysen group or Lofty group could easily COQ an MFS station, in their own groups, as both groups have atleast ONE pumper that could go and sit in an MFS station.
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I have been in the service for over 20 years and the same comments about MFS going into these plus other area was around then.
I will believe it when i see it.
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has anyone considered the option of placing an MFS station DIRECTLY ON THE FREEWAY? It could sit on the side of the freeway btween bridgewater and hahndorf. have 2 appliances, 1 rescue/pumper, 1 pumper.
here is my plan:
on both the uptrack and downtrack, have warning lights on both sides that illuminate about 1 km each direction from the station. These can be auto activated when the alarm goes. Even further back, place standard road signs warning drivers of an approaching fire station. place a crossover section opposite the station so the trucks can get on both sides of the freeway quickly.
I believe if you did this it would keep everyone happy because you now havea central resource for both rescue on the freeway and pumper back up for domestics that would service the WHOLE mt barker/hahndorf/bridgewater/stirling area. a brigade sitting directly on the freeway would make sense.
anyone else like this idea or should i just return to my hole? :-D
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I think boom gates on the freeway would be much too dangerous, although I like your idea. Maybe have it next to the freeway on an overpass, like bridgewater. That way there is the quick access, without the danger of trying to pull out onto the freeway.
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the station would need to be at an actual properly set up exit... your plan of boomgates and warning lights wouldnt really work, and many an accident would occur, becasue as we all know, people in general are stupid and disregard warnings...
much better place would be somewhere like crafers, where there is easy acess to uptrack and downtrack...
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You two are right, an overpass would be more suitable. I would go with bridgewater, purely because it is more central to barker, hahndorf, stirling etc.
however, a station at bridgey would eliminate the need for bridgewater CFS, not that thats a bad thing! :evil: :-D KIDDING KIDDING KIDDING!
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I guess you would have to do alot of testing of times etc. You would still need to meet the 8 minute arrival to a house fire which wouldn't work because from bridgewater to mt barker springs would have to be more like 20 minutes. I think if you are going to pay 2 crews 2 seperate stations would be better, that way both areas have at least 1 truck to a house fire quickly followed up by the other station and retained crews or local CFS brigades.
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on both the uptrack and downtrack, have warning lights on both sides that illuminate about 1 km each direction from the station. These can be auto activated when the alarm goes. Even further back, place standard road signs warning drivers of an approaching fire station. place a crossover section opposite the station so the trucks can get on both sides of the freeway quickly. Sitting about 50-100 metres from the station place eithe boom gates or traffic lights that will stop traffic so both trucks can roll.
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:? :? :?
Gee can't imagine that being too hard to get. If the pedestrian boom gates at a level crossing cost $400,000 this would only cost about a gazillion dollars........ :roll: :roll:
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it was merely a suggestion. Besides we've moved on from that anyway.
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I still prefer our suggestion for Stiring station, that it be built underground, entered by a brass pole in the middle of the local park. When we need to drive appliances out, the roundabout in stirling opens up and the appliances are on a platform that raises them up to road level... Mind you, it sounds cheaper than the freeeway setup :wink:
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I still prefer our suggestion for Stiring station, that it be built underground, entered by a brass pole in the middle of the local park. When we need to drive appliances out, the roundabout in stirling opens up and the appliances are on a platform that raises them up to road level... Mind you, it sounds cheaper than the freeeway setup :wink:
Sounds like a scene from Thunderbirds....sure no one is pulling the strings on the puppets ??? :evil:
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I still prefer our suggestion for Stiring station, that it be built underground, entered by a brass pole in the middle of the local park. When we need to drive appliances out, the roundabout in stirling opens up and the appliances are on a platform that raises them up to road level... Mind you, it sounds cheaper than the freeeway setup :wink:
by the way, to access the brass pole, you need to undo the musical lock and get your eyes scanned.
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I still prefer our suggestion for Stiring station, that it be built underground, entered by a brass pole in the middle of the local park. When we need to drive appliances out, the roundabout in stirling opens up and the appliances are on a platform that raises them up to road level... Mind you, it sounds cheaper than the freeeway setup :wink:
Sounds like a scene from Thunderbirds....sure no one is pulling the strings on the puppets ??? :evil:
[Insert witty comments about us all being puppets of CFS corporate]
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a freeway in south Australia, means a fast road with no stoppages, if there was boom gates in place it would turn it into a highway, and would slow the whole speed limit to 100. i don't like this idea at all, and if it was just off an exit like bridgewater it would not take longer to get anywhere.
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ok everyone, the boom gates are gone! happy? :oops: :-D
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Overjoyed mate, overjoyed... :D
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MFS will have a lot more paid/retained stations n the future so the boys will have to learn to hold hands. With day shifts being pushed in most retained stations it will happen in the hills as well.MFS would not get CFS to to COQ each time they have an out of area call, they will get MFS to step up...this is why they will have a station at bridgy and mt barker.
I am not sure what truck you are driving but it is not 20 minutes from stirling to mt barker in a truck....
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I wouldnt get too carried away about these things you mentioned happenning in a hurry. The first of the day staffed stations (Mt Gambier) is starting next year and I am sure that will be looked at closely for a while before it is introduced into other retained stations. Even then there will only be a few in the state where this will be justified. As I have said before the land that has been looked/purchased in other locations not serviced by MFS is only a plan for the future.
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Where does 8 minute arrival to a house fire come from? When you are out in the sticks some houses are 30 mins away from the closes fire brigade.
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Get used to having a paid fire service be it MFS/CFS or a SAFS cos eventually know one will want to volunteer there time and each town will have its own truck and paid crew.
Expensive but do you see an alternitive?
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How many urban stations do you see in the sticks....
8 minutes is the national standard for arrival at an incident for a paid, retained or urban volunteer crew...
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I have to disagree Camo. You cannot justify having a paid service everywhere, even SAAS dont do that and look at what happened there in the 80`s. There will always be people around to volunteer there services, you just have to harness them and keep them.
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the way i see it....maybe they wont be paid right across the state but most if not all rural brigades will eventually close and town brigades will have to cover the area they did in the past.
With prices getting higher in everything, social restraints and no one being able to leave work anymore im sorry but i really think is what is going to happen.
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I think you will find in some towns where there is cfs/ses/mfs/that there will only be one service and from what I did hear if they dont have to pay the members that will be the way to go....Lets face it in some areas there is no need for MFS,look at wallaroo is there a need for MFS there?? as for putting stirling underground will that mean quick to the fire pole......
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SAFECOM.......
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I don't believe ghost stories pumprescue... :P
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There will always be a volunteer service as long as people give there time for free but also if you remove some of the bull##** and politics in the service things will be fine....if there is a paid service it will be to help volunteers and you would be surprised how good a paid and vol station works well....
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This is one subject that will always be discussed heavily!
I personally think that what will happen eventually, is that a lot of the smaller MFS stations with small callout numbers will close and will revert to CFS.
The larger stations with more callouts will change to MFS and start at maybe retained or go straight to full time depending on call numbers etc.
Also, I think it would only be fair if this occurred, for crews to be selected from existing members of the particular brigades that are being changed over.
One reason I think it will happen like this is, (like already pointed out by others in this thread) is that the government (and unions) have said that there will only be one paid Fire Service in the state of S.A.
Like it or not, no one here makes the rules, so we will have to make the most of it when it happens!
There still is a possibility of one Fire Service, like what occurs in Tasmania, but I don't see them changing to this setup now seeing that both Fire Services are well established in S.A. and both have individual proud traditions that the government will not like to break!
(I believe that Tasmanian Fire Service has been all one service since day one - could be wrong)
Anyhow, could be interesting times..........
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I think the issues with selecting crew from the existing brigade (if you mean the CFS brigades that go MFS) is that no one in our brigade would pass the fitness test. The few people who would pass are the one or two who are applying for the MFS and a couple more health consious members.
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Depending on if you were applying for Retained or Fulltime positions there are different levels.
Fulltime positions at this stage have the higher level of fitness required, but if you are really keen on the job, most people could achieve this with training and persistence.
The retained level is lower, with most people with a reasonable level of fitness being able to achieve this easily.
However, who knows how this may change in the future!
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Toast: People can always get fit if the MFS is going to move in, it won't happen over night... ;)
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I guess it really only means that the four of us need to get fit :wink:
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Any news on who got in down at the Mount mate...
How did you go Senior 70
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Still waiting to find out!
Will be around August 20th when I find out.
Keeping fingers crossed. :-D
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Toast: People can always get fit if the MFS is going to move in, it won't happen over night... ;)
They only have to be fit for the entry period/ recruit course...after that they don't appear to keep it up!
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Unfortunately that could be true about the fitness level dropping after entry and recruit course but hey, if you are working fulltime with the Fire Service and have time allocated to fitness then why wouldn't you do it for your own well being?