SA Firefighter
General Discussion => SASES => Topic started by: 24P on April 29, 2007, 07:14:12 PM
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Is anyone from the SES able to tell me how a unit like Northern Districts, when they got busy yesterday seem to just let the calls back up and get to them when they can? Wouldnt it be more appropriate to pass them off to say the MFS or CFS or other SES units (if not busy themselves) to be done. How long would it have been before some of those jobs got done? Just curious if someone could enlighten me.
Thanks
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SES do things a bit different to the fire services. They run a tasking board each tasking gets allocated a priority. The vehicles go from job to job till there all done.
New calls get added to the board and the list grows until the calls stop.......I assume high priority jobs would get passed off to other agencies if the need arose....I hope.
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In an area where I come from it can take two days after a severe storm, and that was for a house with the roof half ripped off. No other agencies where called not even the MFS who area it was in. They got told to p off
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Metro units work slightly differently to most of their country conterparts.
Country areas tend to call CFS when multitaskings happen, depending on the types of jobs.
In the last lot we had lots of trees, so CFS delt with them and SES dealt with all the tarping etc.
When Lots of buildings etc are involved we break the SES crews up and send them out with CFS trucks to get a better coverage of skills and personel...
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CFS liason officer was at SES SCC from Saturday afternoon onwards.
Saturday morning onwards (could have been earlier as well), some tasks were passed directly to CFS brigades. For example, I understand that CFS assisted at Mawson Lakes, Murray Bridge and Callington.
On some of the tasks, MFS & CFS would not attend due to lack of resources.
SES Regions monitor each Units tasking workload and extra resources can be deployed to assist from another SES Unit. If this is overloaded, then additional resources from another organisation can be requested.
But, it is primarily the SES Unit's Operations person to determine if they request additional resources to assist with the workload. They are the OIC of their area.
Some Units do this and others delay. For example, Murray Bridge SES Unit had a full liason AIIMS structure for the local area. I believe a more consistent approach is being worked on.
I think majority of the taskings were roof damage & internal flooding damage. Only a few of the tasks were flooding from roads, ovals, creeks which required sandbags and a few trees.
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Is anyone from the SES able to tell me how a unit like Northern Districts, when they got busy yesterday seem to just let the calls back up and get to them when they can? Wouldnt it be more appropriate to pass them off to say the MFS or CFS or other SES units (if not busy themselves) to be done. How long would it have been before some of those jobs got done? Just curious if someone could enlighten me.
Thanks
I understand that Enfield, Tea Tree Gully and Prospect completed some taskings in Northern District SES area.
Please correct me if I am wrong, but for sandbags, minor trees and pumping (ground level flooding), CFS & MFS resources can assist.
But I thought it would be dangerous to place a CFS crew on a slippery roof for tarping because a CFS crew is not trained in the skill ? That was majority of the taskings during the weekend.
Just like SES cannot fight a fire because we are not trained in that skill.
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SES do things a bit different to the fire services. They run a tasking board each tasking gets allocated a priority. The vehicles go from job to job till there all done.
New calls get added to the board and the list grows until the calls stop.......I assume high priority jobs would get passed off to other agencies if the need arose....I hope.
Spot on...if tasking involves further damage to the property because more flooding could occur, then this has higher priority than water on the internal walls and ceiling wet because the damage has already occurred.
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hey guys, i am a member of a ses unit close to north/dis ses and we did back them up when they stood down and in between all in a days work
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Thanks for the replies as i said just a query, CFS do know how to work on roofs (well some anyway). Was just concerned that the occupants had to wait a length of time before they were attended to by the SES, just though it may have been better to get more resources on the ground to deal with these incidents quickly to maybe avoid some distress by callers waiting a while for assistance.
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Thanks for the replies as i said just a query, CFS do know how to work on roofs (well some anyway). Was just concerned that the occupants had to wait a length of time before they were attended to by the SES, just though it may have been better to get more resources on the ground to deal with these incidents quickly to maybe avoid some distress by callers waiting a while for assistance.
Fully agree that everyone can improve to do better to meet the 'aim of assisting the community as quickly as possible'.
Procedures are being reviewed & updated after the debrief. This includes ETSA, SAWater & Councils.
I think the multi-agency response at Renmark storm was really great example. CFS & MFS cleared roadways of trees & debris, ETSA ficed power, while SES tackled the roofs and structure damage.
But with multi-taskings over a few days you will have people waiting. The priorities on tasks are really important to get accurate to ensure people with flooded houses/roof damage/Rescue/flooded road/etc get fixed before the tree twig on the front garden.
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MFS: DAILY INC. NO. 75 - 14/07/07 23:27,RESPOND Tree Down,3 DUNCAN RD,BEAUMONT, MAP 131 Q 4 ,,TREE ON PWR LINES & PARTLY BLOCKING ROAD, FROM ETSA WHO ARE IN ATTENDANCE,2919 441*CFSRES: CFS Burnside Response
WHAT THE? Um is that an SES job? I think so...
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How about the nearest & most appropriate resource being sent..?
It seem ridiculous for an SES unit to be sent, when a CFS brigade, with the same gear is only a few hundred metres away...and there are other services waiting for whoever to arrive...why should they waste their time waiting for a resource to come from further away, when there is one only a few minutes away?
Pip
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I would also think that a tree on powerlines would be a considerable fire risk also. Hence the despatching of a fire appliance(s) would be fairly important.
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As Pip mentioned, closest most appropriate resource..... At the end of the day how does a tree down become an "SES job". I don't think jobs can really be classified when at the end of the day we are all here in the interests of public safety.
It's the way it used to be until SES comms moved over to Adelaide Fire and SES magically "took over" incidents such as trees down. Hopefully it will be re-assessed soon and all incidents will just go by the rule of closest most appropriate resource.
Stefan
(my views only!)
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MFS: DAILY INC. NO. 75 - 14/07/07 23:27,RESPOND Tree Down,3 DUNCAN RD,BEAUMONT, MAP 131 Q 4 ,,TREE ON PWR LINES & PARTLY BLOCKING ROAD, FROM ETSA WHO ARE IN ATTENDANCE,2919 441*CFSRES: CFS Burnside Response
WHAT THE? Um is that an SES job? I think so...
Maybe they could be sent also, but I would definately want the fire service responded in the first instance aswell due to the risk involved.
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I have a better solution
How about we disband the SES and stop wasting tax payers money on another emergency service that just seems to be a duplication of other services!
There is nothing the SES do that the CFS/MFS cant do.
Bring on the South Australian Fire & Rescue Service!
Then there would be no arguements on whose job is who!
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if that were to happen under the current labour government theyd probably make the longest name ever lol
"South Australia Fire and Rescue Service: Country Fire Division" ridicolusly long lol
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Interesting that you say disban the SES,a number of country ses units no longer have the mann power to get their appliances out the door and for some crazy reason the people up the ladder(ses) will not allow these units to become part of a cfs brigade all for the sake of keeping a controller in a job.
If we look around the state there is over duplication of services(MFS/SES/CFS) in country towns that can no longer support all 3 or 4 volunteers services but yet the powers to be just let them keep going with low crew numbers and at what cost to the community. We also see new sheds(stations) going up for services that don't have the mann power or the call out rate's. Is it fair that the community and its taxes are wasted in this way????
If services want and are willing to amalgamate then let them for the sake of the community who as been supporting and supply members for all theses services but can no longer do so.
Back on topic,i agree with pip the closes service should be sent..
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Closest service yes,Glen Osmond around the corner but due to it being CFS area CFS/MFS both went.
If we eventually go that way we will more likely be South Australian Fire & Rescue Service and boundaries will be a thing of the past.SACAD will select the closest resource to dispatch. :wink:
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I have a better solution
How about we disband the SES and stop wasting tax payers money on another emergency service that just seems to be a duplication of other services!
There is nothing the SES do that the CFS/MFS cant do.
Bring on the South Australian Fire & Rescue Service!
Then there would be no arguements on whose job is who!
OK, so consider the impact in the metro & regional centres. The specialist search & rescue skills could disappear (eg USAR, vertical, confined space, shoring, tree felling, search, air observers, drop master, dog search, sea & river rescue, etc).
If you used the same logic, the CFS urban brigades can disappear to MFS or become SES Units, because the demand in metro areas is flood & storm rather than a duplicate fire services. This logic means nothing wrong with placing Burnsides and Salisbury rural trucks in a MFS station, because you have duplication of fire services.
Also, please remember that many of the 2000+ SES volunteers will not move to a CFS structure, due to multiple reasons that are not best aired in a public forum.
I have read the anger caused by MFS potentially or moving into Seaford and Mt Barker areas. How do you think SES volunteers feel if a fellow volunteer suggests we be disbanded !!
If people want a sensible discussion on MERGING rather than a TAKEOVER, then send me a message & I would be happy to debate.
Please DO NOT INSULT another emergency service volunteer by saying their skills are useless...it belittles your knowledge of the emergency service sector in SA.
** my personal opinion only **
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Interesting that you say disban the SES,a number of country ses units no longer have the mann power to get their appliances out the door and for some crazy reason the people up the ladder(ses) will not allow these units to become part of a cfs brigade all for the sake of keeping a controller in a job.
If we look around the state there is over duplication of services(MFS/SES/CFS) in country towns that can no longer support all 3 or 4 volunteers services but yet the powers to be just let them keep going with low crew numbers and at what cost to the community. We also see new sheds(stations) going up for services that don't have the mann power or the call out rate's. Is it fair that the community and its taxes are wasted in this way????
If services want and are willing to amalgamate then let them for the sake of the community who as been supporting and supply members for all theses services but can no longer do so.
Back on topic,i agree with pip the closes service should be sent..
I agree with amalgation if the volunteers agree. That would mean that if the SES Unit is stronger than the CFS Brigade, then CFS closes.
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If its not viable then its not viable. No one is saying the vollies are useless and would be more than welcome in the SA fire & rescue service. If they wanna have sour grapes and join thats their problem.
I think if SAFECOM does what it was setup to do the writing is on the wall for the SES. There is nothing the SES does that the Fire & Rescue service could not do!
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If its not viable then its not viable. No one is saying the vollies are useless and would be more than welcome in the SA fire & rescue service. If they wanna have sour grapes and join thats their problem.
I think if SAFECOM does what it was setup to do the writing is on the wall for the SES. There is nothing the SES does that the Fire & Rescue service could not do!
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion... it is not sour grapes.
You are assuming that a merged entity will be more like the existing CFS structure than the existing SES structure for operational volunteer management. I hope it will be merger with the best of the existing systems from all three organisations.
I can see the paid permanent staff being merged under SAFECOM (currently happening with Corporate Communications/Media, IT, OH&S & HR/VMB), but I cannot see the operational sections merging yet. Not unless the UFU, SASESVA & SAVFBA agee.
** my personal opinion only **
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Without dragging the thread to much further off track.....
Even in the states that do proclaim to have a 'Fire and Rescue' (ie QLD, WA) service the SES still exists and has an important role to play. So, in history it has already been proven that the SES has a place in the emergency service structures.
Now, back on track.
Closest most appropriate resource is not disputed. However, in the name of politics and interservice relations - would it not be curtious to let the 'combatant authority' know whats happening?
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How about the nearest & most appropriate resource being sent..?
It seem ridiculous for an SES unit to be sent, when a CFS brigade, with the same gear is only a few hundred metres away...and there are other services waiting for whoever to arrive...why should they waste their time waiting for a resource to come from further away, when there is one only a few minutes away?
Pip
CFS brigade with the same gear?
From my experience both Burnside Pumper and Glen Osmond carry a single "036" (medium) sized chainsaw and possibly a bow saw.
Eastern Suburbs 172 (primary truck) carries a 036 but also a 009 (small) and 076 (large) saw as well as a pole saw.
Even if 172 was otherwise occupied (which it wasn't)... 173 carries a 009 036 and pole saw when responding to tree jobs.
Sure send a fire truck if necessary... but why not send just one fire truck for fire protection (although ETSA are on site so power is likely to be isolated) and the most appropriate resource (SES) for the tree. Eastern have done many many tree on powerline taskings without fire support and do know how to deal with live wires.
The closest resource was defiantly Burnside CFS... the closest appropriate resource is Eastern Suburbs SES.
SES get called to "tree down" as they are the control agency for Storm... and tree down is considered a storm event. Under the MFS/SES Memorandum of understanding fire should only dispatch a MFS appliance for a tree event if it is considered P1(immediate life threat) which is defined as a few criteria (Major road, secondary road completely blocked, person trapped and a few others(I can get this if anyone is dying to know)). This certainly isn't followed.
Some brigades have no issue with SES responding to tree jobs. One even ensures that SES are called even if they weren't on the primary page. Other brigades think they can do it all can call in SES once the job gets too tough for them. (In the same way some SES units think they can do it all and never ask for help)
And as for SES not having anything to offer... why are we called by CFS/MFS to assist them at jobs <eg yesterday afternoon's house fire>? I thought they could do it all?
MFS: DAILY INC. NO. 64 - 17/07/07 17:49,RESPOND To,1 MILBANCA RD,HOUGHTON, MAP 86 B 11 ,,ASSIST CFS WITH TARPING HOUSE AFTER HOUSE FIRE. CFS INCIDENT CONTROLLER. P3,73520*CFSRES:
Even if MFS were trained up to do everything we do... the same argument that keeps CFS in business keeps SES running... the MFS could do all the tasks that CFS does... just not with their current budget. In the event of a major disaster there needs to be surge capacity in any system... something that cannot be afforded with the MFS system. See the Sydney/Newcastle storms just gone... SES, MFB, RFS, Police rescue, Ambulance Rescue, etc etc were all used... but additional resources were still needed from interstate.
/ end rant
James
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Seriously... its a tree job. I don't know why everyone is having a go on this... tree jobs are the suck.
Quit your bitching, people. We are all here for the common good. Who gives a toss about tree jobs and who does them. If you want to cut up trees all the time, buy a Jim's Mowing franchise. Seriously, most tree jobs are council issues. If it is on council land and isn't blocking the road or on powerlines, the local council should be doing the job, not sucking volunteers in to do it.
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Come on if some groups where to leave these trees for the local council to do then call rates would go down....But I have to agree tree jobs are council or TSA job if they are not on a house or poerwlines...
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99.9 % of the tree jobs my brigade goes to are trees on the road - with the bulk of them completely blocking the road.
We could call Tranport SA for the main road. After hours ETA at least an hour, usually more. Because of the nature of the area, it is a very long drive to go "round the block" - longer than waiting for the CFS to cut the tree up.
Same goes for Council (especially with some rationalisation of services, closures to the local depot)
Unfortunately, CFS & SES have worn the brunt of rationalisation to State & Local Government Services - in that the volunteer services can respond far quicker than the other services who have responsibility for it.
And Squiddy - as for who give a toss as to who does a tree job - well I do. If I am on my way to work, and find a large tree across the road, I want it moved ASAP, so I can get to work, or to whatever I am going to. Hence I do not want to wait an hour for one service to arrive to remove it, when the other service can be there in 10 minutes.....
Pip
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And Squiddy - as for who give a toss as to who does a tree job - well I do. If I am on my way to work, and find a large tree across the road, I want it moved ASAP, so I can get to work, or to whatever I am going to. Hence I do not want to wait an hour for one service to arrive to remove it, when the other service can be there in 10 minutes.....
Which explains why most units/brigades can't find the damn trees in rural areas once they have been called, because some good samaritan or farmer grabs a chainsaw and cuts it up or drags it off the road with their 4WD.
But anyway, like I said, it is nothing for people to get so hot under the collar about.
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hay i have been reading a few of the messeages and well im abit disaponted in some of them there has been some talk about tree jobs SES are not responsible for trees that have come down unless there is a risk to the public for (example tree on a house or car or blocking a road.)
i have been with the CFS for six years recently left the CFS due to a safty issue to wich by brigade had no intention of trying to fix for example responding to a possible house fire with only 2 crew.)
i do not see a need to get rid of the SES the amount of gear in which is on our appliances at all tims would not fit on a CFS appliance brigades would need to have extra appliances built there for there would be the same amount of trucks getting around.
we also do fire assistance last summer i spent a week driving food around at wakerie to feed firefighters would any firefighter in here get of a truck to drive a 4wd around??????
i am a RCR operator in a country unit we are very busy and sometimes have multiple jobs going including MVA's and storm damage and today a land search then very nearly a road crash
the SES are need in sa
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i have said this so many times tree jobs are not an ses or cfs or mfs problem unless the pose a risk to public safty if its on the side of the raod or accros the foot path then its no problem if trafic can get past it with out a problem then its up to the council to move it not emergency services as we are not alowed to do the work of some one who is employed to do it
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I agree, Trees down are not SES,CFS or MFS job unless there is a risk to the public etc. So when are CFS going to be put back on the paging for trees down and if there's no immediate risk, ie P3 / P4 why do SES get responded at all?
Further to this thread but on some what of a different angle.... I was driving near The Parade, NORWOOD a few months back. As I approached The Parade I could hear a siren, I sat at a crossroad whilst I could see in the distance what I believed was a police car travelling through traffic, all lights / sirens operating. Now lets set the scene more, it was 1pm on a weekday afternoon and very heavy rain, this was on the busiest part of the parade so quite an amount of traffic and pedestrians. As the vehicle passed where I was located I noticed it was an SES Staff vehicle.
So wondering what was going on when I got home looked up the pager website wondering what was going on. The only job on the eastern side of the city at the time this vehicle was going P1 was a tree down, not on a road and no direct threat to public safety I have since found out.
Now maybe it's just me being crazy, but if you considered the nature, condition and use of road, amount of traffic on the road, amount of traffic reasonably expected to enter the road and all other circumstances.... Would you not consider driving in a manner dangerous???? What requirement is there for a paid staff member to respond from the CBD, under urgent duty driving to a tree down and placing the public at risk?
Stefan KIRKMOE
(my views and opinions only!!!!)
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I agree, Trees down are not SES,CFS or MFS job unless there is a risk to the public etc. So when are CFS going to be put back on the paging for trees down and if there's no immediate risk, ie P3 / P4 why do SES get responded at all?
Further to this thread but on some what of a different angle.... I was driving near The Parade, NORWOOD a few months back. As I approached The Parade I could hear a siren, I sat at a crossroad whilst I could see in the distance what I believed was a police car travelling through traffic, all lights / sirens operating. Now lets set the scene more, it was 1pm on a weekday afternoon and very heavy rain, this was on the busiest part of the parade so quite an amount of traffic and pedestrians. As the vehicle passed where I was located I noticed it was an SES Staff vehicle.
So wondering what was going on when I got home looked up the pager website wondering what was going on. The only job on the eastern side of the city at the time this vehicle was going P1 was a tree down, not on a road and no direct threat to public safety I have since found out.
Now maybe it's just me being crazy, but if you considered the nature, condition and use of road, amount of traffic on the road, amount of traffic reasonably expected to enter the road and all other circumstances.... Would you not consider driving in a manner dangerous???? What requirement is there for a paid staff member to respond from the CBD, under urgent duty driving to a tree down and placing the public at risk?
Stefan KIRKMOE
(my views and opinions only!!!!)
I understand the priority to different tasking classification is being reviewed because of several questions, queries, incidents, etc, etc.
Note that not all SES Commodore wagons are paid staff. Some SES Units have them for crew & equipment transport. So I would not assume it was a paid staff member.
The other option is that the vehicle was traveling to incidents in another part of the city or near country region. Just because you saw them in eastern metropolitan area, does not mean the high priority tasking was in that area.
**my observations only & not based in fact**
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confirmed SES staff member.... I formerly worked in CFS HQ when SES were still on L7 so i know many of the staff.... and well it was probably the only job from memory anywhere within a few hundred k's of the eastern side of Adelaide from memory. I did make follow-ups to see what was going on....
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confirmed SES staff member.... I formerly worked in CFS HQ when SES were still on L7 so i know many of the staff.... and well it was probably the only job from memory anywhere within a few hundred k's of the eastern side of Adelaide from memory. I did make follow-ups to see what was going on....
Hopefully then the person gets a rap over the knuckles....
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So wondering what was going on when I got home looked up the pager website wondering what was going on. The only job on the eastern side of the city at the time this vehicle was going P1 was a tree down, not on a road and no direct threat to public safety I have since found out.
G'day Stefan
"You have since found out"...
Begs the question whether that was _known for certain_ by the responding organisation at the time? How many silly jobs do other services attend P1, "knowing" that P1 is pointless, until the first arriving OIC eye-balls it & down-grades the job? Done purely because the response plan - AFAs / nil injury MVAs / pile burns / etc - says it _might_ be more significant.
Glass houses, & the casting of first stones, etc, etc.
(of course, if the job was already assessed as no-risk and the driver was free-lancing, then he/she needs their bottom smacked.)
cheers
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What is concerning is the almost daily occurrence of building impacts,seems drivers are gettting worse not better no matter how much road safety education is advertised :-o
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Driving on Glen Osmond Road itself is a hazard just for sensible drivers. People dont know how to merge into right lanes these days! Or simply the road hasnt been fixed from having parking filling *half* of the left lane.
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I agree, Trees down are not SES,CFS or MFS job unless there is a risk to the public etc. So when are CFS going to be put back on the paging for trees down and if there's no immediate risk, ie P3 / P4 why do SES get responded at all?
If a tree falls on a house, damage to roof and exposed to the elements, most of the time this should be a P3.
Agreed, more than likely not an immediate risk, but SES are responded to further prevent damage for example water entering the property, or just to simply make the home livable for its occupants..
Not exciting I know, and we may not be saving lives, but we are helping people..
P4, just MFS doing their job and passing on the tasking, we don't have to do a thing at our end but acknowledge and assess its merit..
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I agree, Trees down are not SES,CFS or MFS job unless there is a risk to the public etc. So when are CFS going to be put back on the paging for trees down and if there's no immediate risk, ie P3 / P4 why do SES get responded at all?
If a tree falls on a house, damage to roof and exposed to the elements, most of the time this should be a P3.
Agreed, more than likely not an immediate risk, but SES are responded to further prevent damage for example water entering the property, or just to simply make the home livable for its occupants..
Not exciting I know, and we may not be saving lives, but we are helping people..
P4, just MFS doing their job and passing on the tasking, we don't have to do a thing at our end but acknowledge and assess its merit..
The possibility that water entering a roof where the major electrical cables for the house are located, can increase the risk of electrocution or ceiling collapse onto people. Especially when majority of houses have ceiling insulation which absorbs and transfers the water.
When you speak to people with roof damage when they call in on the 132500 number, they do not understand the risk & evacuate the property.
Thus the debate between possible life threat (SES P2 response) or non-life threat (SES P3 response) response during storm events.
Either way, we are responded to limit property damage.
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Only if there were persons trapped would you need to go lights and sirens though...
The difference that a minute or two makes going P2 to a job like this isnt worth making it more dangerous than the job you are responding to..
Units need to evaluate the job and not just rely on the priority of the page they receive. SES get call back numbers for a reason.
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just because you make a call to the person means you can downgrade to non lights we are given a priority for a reason the answers that the call taker got determine what priorty you go not the crew that is responding only and on site officer can downgrade a crew
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I'm a little confused.....does that mean that only the call taker, or an SES Officer on the scene can change the priority that a crew responds on?
Or can the responding crew, upon speaking to the caller also change the priority that a crew responds at..? (I didn't quite understand your post sesroadcrashrescue)
Pip
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Either the Unit Manager or Duty Officer tell the crews what Priority to travel on :wink:
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when we get paged we have p1 p2 p3 p4 when its storm damge it get a priority p1 to p4 in stom damage the unit manager or who ever is in charge puts them in order to which we will deal with first any p1 job is first RCR is always P1 if its stormdamage we can be down graded however it can only be done by an OIC on scene or by adelaide fire if they get more info
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So the driver, or the OIC of the vehicle has no discreation at all in what priority they respond to an incident.. Is that what you are saying ?
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I would highly disagree with that
Unit manager and/or Duty officer has first descision as to what priority we respond...
And then as pip said OIC can make a decision.
MFS, as we are all aware, dont always get it right.
Especially in a multi tasking evening, what may have been tsked as a P2, and we only get to respond to it 30 minutes later, why the need for lights and sirens?
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Especially in a multi tasking evening, what may have been tsked as a P2, and we only get to respond to it 30 minutes later, why the need for lights and sirens?
If it's tasked as life threatening, and you aren't able to respond until 30 minutes later, would you respond another resource to it in the meantime?
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ok take the ses out of it use a different service if you were a drug user and had been picked up by the ambos alot and you OD and there were tasked cat1 to you but they decided that they had been to you the day b4 on a cat 2 and nothing was worng to the point that you needed to be a cat 2 so this time even though its a cat 1 and your 15 mins away from there location under urgent driving and almost 30 normal driving the go hay its only them again lets go on a cat 3 and drive out to you normal speed dose the crew changing the priorty of the job real make sence just cause its a tree on the roof of a house and your tasked P1 dosent mean you can down grade to a three unless you have more information from a OIC who has already had a look at the job Adelaide fire dont always get it right but they go with what information they get from the caller same with saas same as when CFS had its own commcen and same with SES commcen most calls get put through a star system which will put it in to a catagory there fore giving it a priorty and best resorce for that job.
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If it's tasked as life threatening, and you aren't able to respond until 30 minutes later, would you respond another resource to it in the meantime?
Probably,
But life threat with SES responded should also have a BRT or BWT with them
I suppose I was thinking more of the threat to property jobs ie flooding
Water might be rising whilst its raining, but after the 5 minute down pour and the rain stops, the water subsides and its no longer a priority job to protect the house..
Units can get 10 jobs like this in a 10 minute period if there is an isolated rain patch, so by the time it takes a unit to respond and make a call back to the owners we can find out the waters flowing away and downgrade ourselves...
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A few years ago, I was working night shift, it was a very windy night. A metal sign started coming loose on a building, and there was a risk of the whole sign coming down onto the road, and causing injury / damage to passing traffic.
At the time, there was hardly any other traffic (it was about 2 am on a weekday).
We tried to get hold of owners / security company etc etc, but after much chasing around, could not get hold of anyone associated with the building. So we put a call through to SES, as the sign needed securing.
30 minutes later, 3 SES people turned up...lights & sirens, at about 2.45 am. There might have been one or two other cars on the road..( a four laned road).
So the call taker had presumably given this tasking a Priority 2 (so lights & sirens)...and after 30 minutes, the crew were coming down the road, with sirens on, waking everyone up, when there was no urgent risk (and that was conveyed to them on the initial call).
Surely, the driver & OIC would have some discretion on using the siren at 2.45 am in the morning, for a call that wasn't that urgent....
sesroadcrashrescue, what you are saying is that in this situation, only the duty officer, or the call taker can change the priority... ?
Surely the driver / OIC should be able to use some discretion on the priority that they respond, or at the very least, not using sirens unnecessarily!
Pip
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Sirens should be kept to 8am-8pm, and Yelp only for traffic that has stopped you outside this time. and non-life threatening calls dont use sirens, no matter the priority. As for lights, use them whenever...
my opinion....Edit: explained better below hehe
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Oh dear, don't go trying to put time restrictions on when to use sirens. If its 3am, in a heavy residential area, and I'm coming up to an intersection, red lights and traffic around the place, those sirens are going on and that air horn is getting hit. I don't really care about who I wake up, I'm more worried about the safety of my crew and the timely arrival of my appliance to the incident.
I understand and agree with not using sirens when not necessary, but there are more times than just "stationary traffic" that you need to use them.
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surely things work something like this;
call taker does his/her job, pages the incident with the priority as determined by his/her checklist... and thats them, they dont care anymore really.
duty officer may ack the page and confirm a crew is on the road, but unless there on the appliance then surely they dont have much say anymore as there detached from the incident.
the OIC of the appliance is the person that should determine which priority they respond on, as they are the person in charge of the job as a whole, and the person that will have tojustify there actions later...
whether they travel p1 and shudnt or tyravel p2 and shud have gone p1 well who cares... at the end of the day they will have to justify themselves... and lets just remember, there are just as many siren jockeys in SES as there are in CFS... every brigade has at least one wannker.
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my approach is from a area which has no Traffic lights....Sure...being on Priority one where you need to break the normal Road Law's...you would use Sirens for the time you need them...but not constant surely...its easy to just flick it off and on when you need them....
Like I wouldnt have the siren going on a 80km/h road at 3am in the morning where no cars are present. Lights would be just enough. If a car is slowing you down, in front of you...then a burst of yelp is enough.
"giving way", then going through Traffic light intersections definitely sirens if you are not right of way.
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Sirens should be kept to 8am-8pm, and Yelp only for traffic that has stopped you outside this time. and non-life threatening calls dont use sirens, no matter the priority. As for lights, use them whenever...
my opinion.
Before I just read your latest reply, I was about to write that this is one of the silliest things I have read to date.. - But I think you explained yourself alot better in your last reply..
- I have had a number of occasions at 1 - 6am where traffice has been built up, or when approaching busy intersections or traffic lights where Sirens and Horn have been required.. - The citizens that ring up at 2am complaining of the noise, are the first to complain when you don't get to their house fire in the first 30 seconds.. - Can't please everyone.
But I agree that excessive noise (sirens etc) shouldn't be used when not required.. - Code Red/Priority one/UDD etc. driving conditions are different on every job, the driver/officer should make the call at the time, depending on circumstances.
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Completely off topic I know, but the funniest thing I have seen with regards to sirens was at Mt Bold late on day two.
We had an outbreak on the north eastern side and needed to get some trucks there, next thing I see two trucks going through a paddock and through the scrub with their sirens going, this was no where near a road or cars, just trucks driving around the fireground with sirens blaring. No names mentioned but I think they may have been from a Region slightly to the north of Region one.
Maybe they thought that having the siren on makes the truck go faster, very strange and completely unnecessary.
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Completely off topic I know, but the funniest thing I have seen with regards to sirens was at Mt Bold late on day two.
We had an outbreak on the north eastern side and needed to get some trucks there, next thing I see two trucks going through a paddock and through the scrub with their sirens going, this was no where near a road or cars, just trucks driving around the fireground with sirens blaring. No names mentioned but I think they may have been from a Region slightly to the north of Region one.
Maybe they thought that having the siren on makes the truck go faster, very strange and completely unnecessary.
:lol: :lol: :lol: Not a good look for the service but would've been hilarious to watch
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Mack your comment on who decides the priority is spot on. Initially its on the pager, Unit manager/Duty Officer contacts Adelaide Fire to a) notifying them that crew is being dispatched - before the call is defaulted, b) to gain further information. From that the response is managed - vehicle to use, siren/ no siren, speed etc. The vehicle one might make some people curious, if we are going to support another unit at an RCR for example - if they only require extra crew we would use our 31 Unit (refer to call sign post :wink:)as it is faster than the big truck, takes up less space etc.
Now some from SES may disagree, however, I have been in three units (this unit twice) & when I became manager of this one, discussed this with other unit managers in the area - this is the way they do it as well.
cheers