SA Firefighter
General Discussion => Other Government Agencies => Topic started by: medevac on April 18, 2006, 07:46:24 PM
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Not sure if anyones interested but just something ive been compiling as ive noticed these things...
METRO; 20's
STURT 73420
WESTERN ADELAIDE 73620
ENFIELD 72420
METRO SOUTH 72620
PROSPECT 73120
NOARLUNGA 72820
COUNTRY; 20's
CLARE 75329
LAURA 75929
MURRAY BRIDGE 72729
BARMERA 73829
SNOWTOWN 77029
MT GAMBIER 74629
ROXBY DOWNS 76829
MARLA 76229
MINTABIE 76329
KANGAROO ISLAND 72529
KAPUNDA 75829
BERRI 73929
MAITLAND 77229
WAROOKA 76129
KINGSTON 74329
i was trying to work out what the final two digits may stand for and have come to the conclusion that it is to do with road crash units (29) Vs non-road crash units (20)... originally i thought it may be road crash responses Vs storm responses, but then one of the 29's getting responded to a flooding/salvage job blew that out of the water..
was also wondering if perhaps 20s were metro units whereas 29's were contry...
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Thanks for that Medevac. Quite topical as we were paged this afternoon to a tree down along with SES. Some of the members were not aware of which code was for which SES unit. (Some weren't aware what the code was at all) We had assumed that Sturt was responding due to the location, but by your list it was Noarlunga.
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72120 is Adelaide Hills (Mt Barker)
Is there a list around with the CFS station codes, as we have members wondering the same thing.. Well there is now that I pointed it out to them.
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In CFS section of this forum under "Station Numbers Again" might be a few pages back... it only has a few CFS station codes and all MFS station codes.
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Thanks for that Medevac. Quite topical as we were paged this afternoon to a tree down along with SES. Some of the members were not aware of which code was for which SES unit. (Some weren't aware what the code was at all) We had assumed that Sturt was responding due to the location, but by your list it was Noarlunga.
Did you arrive, do the job, and put a stop back before they went mobile ?
:P
Just jokes SES peeps... U know we love you....
:lol:
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That's exactly what happened, with all respect to our fellow vollies. Appliance was already back in the bay when SES unit drove passed the station enroute to the job.
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Did you arrive, do the job, and put a stop back before they went mobile ?
PLEASE PLEASE do that.. we have had a couple jobs where the CFS have gone too, done the job, and we didnt get a stop call. Nice way for us to waste our time looking for the job and so on.
Like I have said in another post, the area SES units cover compaired to that of CFS/MFS is huge. There are going to be a few more jobs done by the CFS/MFS I think.
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The appliance numbers would make sense - 29 is same as CFS for rescue and mfs 9 and from my understanding no metro SES units have any RCR capabilities???
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Did you arrive, do the job, and put a stop back before they went mobile ?
PLEASE PLEASE do that.. we have had a couple jobs where the CFS have gone too, done the job, and we didnt get a stop call. Nice way for us to waste our time looking for the job and so on.
Question how would the CFS know that you were getting called to the job ??
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Its an odd one with MFS paging. We will have turnouts specifically for our Hazmat appliance or our tanker, but everything else is just '19' - Rescue Vehicle, regardles of the job.
In terms of stopping the SES, most of the time that I've seen them arrive at our jobs, we have had no idea that they were coming. It must be awful to go looking for a job thats already been done, but 'the nearest and most appropriate resource' should be used.
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In terms of stopping the SES, most of the time that I've seen them arrive at our jobs, we have had no idea that they were coming. It must be awful to go looking for a job thats already been done, but 'the nearest and most appropriate resource' should be used.
My suggestion would be to assume if it is storm, tree or flood incident, then SES is responding. Better to be informed that SES did not know about the job, rather than the volunteers travel for no job.
It is automatically assumed that if a fire or RCR exists in rural regions, then CFS is responding.
One of the new rules is that if the incident is car vs building, then SES will be responded for salvage. So if you respond to RCR & a building is involved, then give a quick stop call if no shoring/salvage required.
Ultimately SAFECOM SACAD will assist in resolving this. Hopefully an automatic address search for current incidents will be done within the computer system when a new call is received.
But you will always get the problem. Last year during a large storm event, Willunga CFS and Noarlunga SES (from LHQ at Lonsdale) were responded to a tree job at Willunga. We believe they were individual seperate telephone calls received, and neither organisation knew the other had responded resources.
The ultimate aim is for the emergency incident to be resolved quickly and safely as possible. So it does not matter who resolved the incident.
But all I ask is that you be aware that more resources from other organisations will being responded in case you need the extra equipment.
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Its an odd one with MFS paging. We will have turnouts specifically for our Hazmat appliance or our tanker, but everything else is just '19' - Rescue Vehicle, regardles of the job.
Is confusion caused because with SES you are paging a whole Unit, not a vehicle ? With SES it is up to the responding Officer or Team Leader which vehicle is used.
Also, the SES trucks & vehicles are setup to respond to multiple types of incidents. For example, a heavy rescue truck carries equipment for tree jobs, shoring, building damage, roof damage, verticle rescue, lighting, flooding, etc. This makes it impossible to name vehicles by its purpose.
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Whenever we stop our local SES unit for jobs they still rockup with the line "CFS can't stop call us"
They look like a bunch of donkeys, but thats their perogative though....
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Whenever we stop our local SES unit for jobs they still rockup with the line "CFS can't stop call us"
They look like a bunch of donkeys, but thats their perogative though....
Exactly the same thing happens with us. They jump out of their vehicles as we are jumping in to go home :-P
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I think you will find this is the minority of SES Units. Seem both Units are in the same area though !!!
Personally I believe the rest of the volunteers would appreciate the 'job done, go home early' advice. :wink:
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Now wouldn't a common frequency/talk group be a great idea - could then transmit a direct stop and pass on any relevant info - similar to what occurs in EMA fire service areas - that way the officer of the incoming vehicle can make a valued judgment if they need to continue - sorry for being logical!
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Now wouldn't a common frequency/talk group be a great idea - could then transmit a direct stop and pass on any relevant info - similar to what occurs in EMA fire service areas - that way the officer of the incoming vehicle can make a valued judgment if they need to continue - sorry for being logical!
Too long for a muti-agency talkgroup to be setup, but it would not take long for CFS OCO's to call MFS ComCen to advise of the stop-call.
Be resolved in a couple of years when SAFECOM SACAD in operation. Then we are all talking to the one ComCen.
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fire03rescue - you'll know if an SES unit isgoing to a job with you because there station number will be on the page with yours...
mundcfs - your talking about VARs... SES got burned a couple of times a while ago by CFS putting stop calls on them before they'd even arrived, SES went home and an hour later got called back because a rescue truck was required... they know downgrade to priority two (or they should) and continue rather than taking a stop...
in reality though if MFS commcen does its job as its being payed to and per there new protocols... then vehicle Vs building will now be "Building Impact" and respond the nearest SES as well as fire and rescue... also CFS/MFS should not be being responded to tree downs at all, seems to me that the dispatchers are fiddling with the responses... time for SES heirachy to put the foot down?
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seems to me that the dispatchers are fiddling with the responses... time for SES heirachy to put the foot down?
how are the SES heirachy meant to put their foot down when the CFS cant?
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why cant the CFS? in relation to what anyway??? CFS dont seem to be 'pushed' out of responses or screwed over really...
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Medevac- yes they (SES) keep coming for VA's and even in the green book it says if first rescue is stopped then they can keep going on lower priority to the job for any other assistance but when the first rescue resource is already on scene there's no need to keep coming...
We've had them roll up to a job in the middle of town at 3am after putting a stop on them, were about to leave and they arrive jump out of their truck throw up all of the lockers start up their incredibly noisy generator, all before checking in with the OIC, that why they look like donkey's.
But anyway filtered happens and until everyone is responded at the same time by the same people miscommunications will happen and the services will have to work their best to get through it.
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Medivac's info about stop calls is spot on.... SES have been burned a few to many times.
The situation has been explained, and most are happy. When notified that they are not required they revert to priority 2. Its good to have a quick chat to OIC etc, and it gets any 'green' crew at least a little exposure to RCR.....
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Sorry to continue taking this threat off the topic, but SES is not alone!
There have been many instances in the past where both CFS and MFS have failed to take a stop and continued P1 to the incident .... just in case!
(Actually sounds like a Group Officer or two I know :wink: :wink: :wink:)
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Medevac
I have never seen SES called on my pager, I have been to a few calls where both SES and CFS has been called.
Most of the time SES has been called in later
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Medevac
I have never seen SES called on my pager, I have been to a few calls where both SES and CFS has been called.
Most of the time SES has been called in later
the transition has only happened just recently.. i believe your talking about car v structures where SES havent been on your page? this is probably due to MFS puttingthe call in as "Respond RCR" instead of "building impact"... and then doing it properly later...
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73329 - Strathalbyn
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Just for the record. When we established that SES were not required, we advised MFS to issue a stop, which they did. Some time later, after our appliance had returned to station, we observed an SES unit (Noarlunga?) driving away from the scene. I assume they had received the stop page and continued P2 to scene, found nobody there and all OK, so went home. We were aware of SES's response to the initial call by the 5 digit code at the end of the pager message "72820".
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Just a quick comment on the SES stand down.
When I was a SES Member at Murray Bridge we had a stand down policy, that we could only be stop called by the agency that called us.
If the Ambos called re a RCR - we would call up on air and get told to stop (via CFS Comms - from info from CFS on scene) - no one trapped. - The Ambos wanted us to assist with casualty handling or lighting not just rescue - 12 Casualties at the RCR. If we listened to the stop call we would let down the Ambos.
Some times we are at the job before we could confirm the responding agencies stop call.
With RCR it is better to be safe than sorry.
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Sounds like a sound theory....
Hope all is well in your 'new' neck of the woods Andrew
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NOARLUNGA - 72820
NORTHERN DISTRICTS - 72920
TUMBY BAY - 78229
BLANCHETOWN - 74029
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Complete list of SES Unit 5-digit codes that MFS use, is up on the wall of the SES SCC. But I was unable to copy it during last callout. Will grab a copy when next in the building. Will then post on this forum and let Matt know for his website.
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cheers.
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OK, below is the list of five-digit numbers that identify SES Units within a MFS ComCen pager message. The list below is in SES Unit alphabetical order:
Adelaide Hills = 72120
Andamooka = 74929
Barmera = 73829
Berri = 73929
Blanchetown = 74029
Booleroo Centre = 75029
Bordertown = 74129
Burra = 75129
Bute = 75229
Campbelltown = 72220
Ceduna = 77420
Clare = 75329
Cleve = 77529
Cockburn = 75429
Cooper Pedy = 75529
Cummins = 77620
Dog Search & Rescue = 79440
Eastern HQ Unit = 79230
Eastern Suburbs = 72320
Enfield = 72420
Eyre HQ Unit = 79130
Hallett = 75629
Hawker = 75729
Kangaroo Island = 72529
Kapunda = 75829
Keith = 74229
Kimba = 77729
Kingston SE = 74329
Laura = 75929
Leigh Creek = 76029
Loxton = 74429
Maitland = 76129
Marla = 76229
Meningie = 74529
Metro South = 72620
Mintibie = 76329
Mount Gambier = 74629
Murray Bridge = 72729
Noarlunga = 72820
Northern Districts = 72920
Northern HQ Unit = 79330
Nullabor = 77829
Nundroo = 77920
Onkaparinga = 73020
Port Augusta = 76420
Port Broughton = 76529
Port Lincoln = 78029
Port Pirie = 76629
Prospect = 73120
Quorn = 76729
Renmark = 74729
Roxby Downs = 76829
Saddleworth = 76929
Snowtown = 77029
South Coast = 73229
Spalding = 77129
State Duty Officer = 79550
State HQ Unit = 79030
Strathalbyn = 73329
Streaky Bay = 78129
Sturt = 73420
Tea Tree Gully = 73520
Tumby Bay = 78229
Warooka = 77229
Wattle Range = 74820
Western Adelaide = 73620
Whyalla = 77320
Wundinna = 78320
Yankalilla = 73720
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I hear someone asking about station numbers for MFS/CFS ok here is a list
MFS STATIONS
Adelaide HQ-20
Glynde-22
Woodville-24
Port Adelaide-25
Largs North-28 including Marine Station
Oakden-30
Golden Grove-31
Salisbury-32
Elizabeth-33
Gawler-35
Angle Park-36
Prospect-37
St Marys-40
Camden Park-41
OHalloran Hill-42
Christies Downs-43
Glen Osmond-44
Brooklyn Park-45
Port Pirie-50
Port Augusta-51
Whyalla-52
Kadina-66
Moonta-68
Mt Gambier-70
Victor Harbor-71
Murray Bridge-72
CFS STATIONS
Burnside-29
Belair-48
Blackwood-47
Clarendon-11
Mt Barker-1279
Echunga-1248
Coromandel Valley-49
Eden Hills-46
Happy Valley-80
Morphett Vale-81
McLaren Vale-82
Seaford-83
Salisbury-91
Dalkeith-92
Tea Tree Gully-95
Virginia-96
Hope that helps
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Stirling 90
Aldgate 88
Bridgewater 89
Upper Sturt 84
Piccadilly 75
Bradbury 86
And Mylor and Ironbank have 85/87 but I can't remember which is which.
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Stirling 90
Aldgate 88
Bridgewater 89
Upper Sturt 84
Piccadilly 75
Bradbury 86
And Mylor and Ironbank have 85/87 but I can't remember which is which.
Ironbank 85
Mylor 87
Burnside 29
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we have a new pager number ours is now kap029 instead of what it used to be
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All RCR units are 029, others are 020. E.g a unit I might know a lot about is Bri029 :wink:
Strangely Noarlunga are Noa029 - not sure why :evil:
cheers
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Chook doesn't norlunga have RCR gear on one of there trucks or is it just a stuff up i have only ever seen norlunga out in a land cruiser so not sure.
so how is bri029 i did a training course with some of the members at at cfs stc a few years ago.
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All RCR units are 029, others are 020. E.g a unit I might know a lot about is Bri029 :wink:
Strangely Noarlunga are Noa029 - not sure why :evil:
cheers
is it because of USAR?
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Not sure why if it was for USAR then so would Sturt & TTG have 029.
Have asked payed staff to follow up but have heard nothing back.
I know some of the old RCR Hydraulic gear is going to metro units for USAR maybe thats what you had seen. But as you are aware there isn't much standardisation down that end of the world :evil:
Yep were they doing a leadership course? Mind you most of those people are not in SES any longer - its a totally different unit from two years ago :wink:
Anyway cheers
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Noarlunga SES 029 have RCR,High Angle Rescue and Confined Space :wink:
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Yep I know they have CS & Vertical (like other units) but since when have they been RCR?
Only spoke to their boss 2 months ago & he didn't mention it - as a matter of fact he said he admired what the RCR teams do.
However if you are right I stand corrected - the RCR trg team will be interested too :wink:
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RCR is not primary but they have the tools as does Sturt
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Yep thats what I thought - like other non RCR units they end up with the old RCR gear so they can use it for USAR & stuff. Not that I agree with it but its hard for Metro units to get on the course. However units like Noarlunga,Sturt, TTG could definetly back up RCR brigades due to the other training they do.
thanks for the info cheers
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RCR is not primary but they have the tools as does Sturt
as USAR equipment
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RCR is not primary but they have the tools as does Sturt
as USAR equipment
Thats nice, but back to the original comment. It was my understanding that callsigns ending in 9, 19 and 029 were to designate RCR resources as listed in the RCR directory not USAR, Vertical, and other types of rescue???
24P
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Yep sadly theory doesn't quite match reality :-(
Some "9" units within the 3 services may claim RCR status & be listed in the directory as a RCR resource, however as I have said in previous posts they don't meet the standard i.e trained operators, incorrect equipment,etc.
There seems to be no interest in rectifying this problem by any of the services :- check out todays task at Salt creek for example(the stop call in particular)unless of course its for empire building reasons :wink:.
Until regular external audits are conducted by the RCR committee and problems rectified, the situation will remain.
As for NOA029 they are not an RCR resource, they are listed in our directory as NOA020 (we have a copy of every unit,brigade & stations code).
So obviously when it was entered into the system it was wrongly keyed in.
There are some other examples of incorrect pager codes, but on the whole not that many.
cheers
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RCR is not primary but they have the tools as does Sturt
as USAR equipment
Thats nice, but back to the original comment. It was my understanding that callsigns ending in 9, 19 and 029 were to designate RCR resources as listed in the RCR directory not USAR, Vertical, and other types of rescue???
24P
yes... very nice, and was not directed at you, but as an explanation to SAFirey.
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Doesn't the problem arise with 'Rescue' being a general term used across three services? As far as the fire services go, a 'Rescue' truck is capable of RCR primarily, and then maybe other things. In SES, a 'Rescue' truck is a decent description of 99% of their vehicles, regardless of its RCR capability.
This is where standards come in to play, and maybe people should try to not apply the same numbers/terms between services.
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Ah but that is not quite true is it?
All SES "9" vehicles are Primary RCR - i.e they have heavy cutters & spreaders & ram + Hydraulic pump either a Simo or Trimo. Plus the other stuff.
CFS who knows! could be a rescue with heavy hydraulic equipment, 24/34p with heavy hydraulic or combitool who knows!
Then there is MFS who can have either heavy hydraulic or combitool & still be called rescue i.e "9".
Remember the directory states that combination tools do not meet the standard.
So I have a 91 (RCR), a 31 which has cutters and all of the RCR stuff but as it does not have a seperate spreaders does not meet the RCR standard.
Therefore once everyone understands our system they know that a "9" vehicle has heavy hydraulic capability & crewed by RCR team members.
Yet I don't have the same confidence in CFS/MFS - combitool/ heavy hydraulic? RCR Crew or not?
Back to NOA020 - there appliance would have a "3" on the door & would be more than capable of any rescue except RCR as they haven't done the course - as far as I know!
Well over half of the heavy fleet would be "9" vehicles, I think the problem lays with the fire service view of rescue - RCR being the mainly/only form of rescue! And of course it would take very little effort to fix the NOA029 problem -train them in RCR :-D Or change the computer entry :wink:
The system is quite fine - if used correctly & EVERYONE follows the same rules!
cheers
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And of course it would take very little effort to fix the NOA029 problem -train them in RCR :-D Or change the computer entry :wink:
The system is quite fine - if used correctly & EVERYONE follows the same rules!
cheers
Are you for real? The only way MFS comms will change an entry on the system if it benifits them. All others are too hard or they dont have the time.