SA Firefighter
Equipment => All Equipment discussion => Topic started by: jaff on August 15, 2008, 09:37:54 PM
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One skill drill I would like to see everyone do as a requirement, like the burnover drill is, CPR.
As the average age of our firefighters increases and with no fitness tests/challenges in place, we are probably more likely to have a firey go down with a heart attack or something of that levity.
So I think every person that is on the fireground should be annualy drilled in CPR ,so hopefully we can at least we can keep that person alive until they are taken out for further attention.
This skill might also be used in the home to save the life of a loved one and the more we practice it, the more it becomes second nature.
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One skill drill I would like to see everyone do as a requirement, like the burnover drill is, CPR.
As the average age of our firefighters increases and with no fitness tests/challenges in place, we are probably more likely to have a firey go down with a heart attack or something of that levity.
So I think every person that is on the fireground should be annualy drilled in CPR ,so hopefully we can at least we can keep that person alive until they are taken out for further attention.
This skill might also be used in the home to save the life of a loved one and the more we practice it, the more it becomes second nature.
Well we tried to get Oxy Viva for our appliances for that very reason, but Region says its A) not standard stowage and B)Cost of getting everyone accredited in Advance Resus is prohibitive.Whats your life worth :? very little in the eyes of CFS :evil:
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So if it's decided to add CPR - then why not put the machinery on the truck that's going to save the life as well....like basic oxygen resus kit and semi-auto Defib?
CPR alone only prolongs the inevitable until SAAS gets there...and we all know what those response times are like.....
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So if it's decided to add CPR - then why not put the machinery on the truck that's going to save the life as well....like basic oxygen resus kit and semi-auto Defib?
CPR alone only prolongs the inevitable until SAAS gets there...and we all know what those response times are like.....
When I did my First Aid Course back in December the instructor at the time stated that by end 2008 all fire appliances will have Oxy Viva and Laerdal Defibralators....ill believe it when I see it :-P
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One skill drill I would like to see everyone do as a requirement, like the burnover drill is, CPR.
As the average age of our firefighters increases and with no fitness tests/challenges in place, we are probably more likely to have a firey go down with a heart attack or something of that levity.
So I think every person that is on the fireground should be annualy drilled in CPR ,so hopefully we can at least we can keep that person alive until they are taken out for further attention.
This skill might also be used in the home to save the life of a loved one and the more we practice it, the more it becomes second nature.
Well we tried to get Oxy Viva for our appliances for that very reason, but Region says its A) not standard stowage and B)Cost of getting everyone accredited in Advance Resus is prohibitive.Whats your life worth :? very little in the eyes of CFS :evil:
Weird coz all members at Mt Barker have done Advance Resus training (with regions approval) & we have the gear on the the trucks plus a few extra bits. :?
I have used it many times at jobs, with a very positive pt outcome.
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So if it's decided to add CPR - then why not put the machinery on the truck that's going to save the life as well....like basic oxygen resus kit and semi-auto Defib?
CPR alone only prolongs the inevitable until SAAS gets there...and we all know what those response times are like.....
When I did my First Aid Course back in December the instructor at the time stated that by end 2008 all fire appliances will have Oxy Viva and Laerdal Defibralators....ill believe it when I see it :-P
Trust em.....The cheques in your mouth and I won't .... in your mail :wink:
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Oxygen Therapy is classed as standard stowage equipment for RCR brigades, hence why Barker would be allowed to carry it. Also if you had it before the whole standard stowage thing got serious you would still be allowed to keep it and train in it. It's just when you try and purchase it yourself and pay for training yourself that they crack the shits.
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Oxygen Therapy is classed as standard stowage equipment for RCR brigades, hence why Barker would be allowed to carry it. Also if you had it before the whole standard stowage thing got serious you would still be allowed to keep it and train in it. It's just when you try and purchase it yourself and pay for training yourself that they crack the filtered.
Kangarilla has it :wink:
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So if its seen as standard stowage, does that mean that it gets issued? Or just gets the OK tick of approval?
I'm not a huge fan of Snr. First Aid being a requirement only for RCR, I believe it should be a minimum of qualification, like BFF 1.
In all honesty the 1st Aid and Resus stowage is more about saving firefighters lives than those of the public. It's great to have on board for RCR/Medical Assist, yet when you start couting the minutes taken to reach people, its far more valuable in a witnessed collapse - such as a firefighter down. Whats our greatest cause of fatalities?
I don't see any reason, apart from cost, for 1st aid/resus/AED *NOT* to be issued statewide. It would be a great PR stunt too - especially in rural areas with ambo coverage issues. Its not like the 'training' in Resus/AED is any stretch of intelligence. Its still basic CPR with mechanical assistance, and if you can't follow the AED prompts, then I hope you're resigning from the CFS.
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So if its seen as standard stowage, does that mean that it gets issued? Or just gets the OK tick of approval?
I'm not a huge fan of Snr. First Aid being a requirement only for RCR, I believe it should be a minimum of qualification, like BFF 1.
In all honesty the 1st Aid and Resus stowage is more about saving firefighters lives than those of the public. It's great to have on board for RCR/Medical Assist, yet when you start couting the minutes taken to reach people, its far more valuable in a witnessed collapse - such as a firefighter down. Whats our greatest cause of fatalities?
I don't see any reason, apart from cost, for 1st aid/resus/AED to be issued statewide. It would be a great PR stunt to. Especially in rural areas with ambo coverage issues. Its not like the 'training' in Resus/AED is any stretch of intelligence. Its still basic CPR with mechanical assistance, and if you can't follow the WED prompts, then I hope you're resigning from the CFS.
This is my argument that its more for us than the public, and after 5 years of fighting for it through the right channels its a simple "NO" you cant have it because it costs too much :-o
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Not True Matt,Naracoorte tyred to get it and where informed its not standrad gear....mind you most region one RCR brigade's have it....time for change on some of these state committees.... Remote area firefighting is something we see each year and but by the time you get there the house or shed is well involved or its on the ground,If your house is not in town it takes time to drive the 45KMS to your place but the its way to late....
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Bill it may be standard stowage for CFS RCR but O2 is not listed in the equipment list in the Road Crash Rescue directory. And this is the "bible".
And why should it? RCR brigades/units/teams role in life is to provide a Rescue capability, not be a "super team" that does everything!
Last time I looked into a SAAS bus they carried all of that stuff & based on recent events they would be paged to a RCR job before rescue, so why carry gear you don't need! It's just more training & maintenance you need to do.
On the other hand ask yourself why Inland marine don't carry O2? Would have thought the need was greater. If you want to take on the Paramedics job as well become a community responder unit for SAAS & all of the training & equipment needs would be coveeed by them :wink:
I think it's about time that CFS & it's people start looking at every wildfire enquiry in Australia since Ash Wednesday. Hidden in the pages somewhere is a recommendation that the Lead agency for wildfire (CFA,RFS,CFS)needs to focus on their core business - combating wildfire! Thats why in the states that have tried to combine their emergency services, there is still a volunteer "bush" fire brigade.
So in my humble opinion stop worrying about some piece of gear that someone else has (& something we have never missed) & just focus on what you have got & need.
cheers
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Agree with a lot of what your saying Chook, and im sure youll be expecting this...
But, CFS cant 'focus' on rural training only... Were not just the 'bushfire brigade' anymore.
[my comment not necessarily in regards to O2]
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Yep - expected that :-D
Just sometimes think that CFS is trying to have its finger in too many pies & its really hurting the membership.
In the Riverland if someone wants to do stuff their local brigade doesn't do, they join another service as well.
I know there are CFS people in one of the local SAMFS stations & SAMFS people in a local SES unit, as well as CFS in SES, SAAS & St Johns etc.
Intersetingly the NSW VRA has recently changed their name to NSW RESCUE SERVICE, to reflect their core role!
It will become harder for CFS to attract & retain members if the list of requirements continues to grow, when all most people on a truck want to do is fight the wild fire in summertime.
cheers
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Oxygen Therapy is classed as standard stowage equipment for RCR brigades, hence why Barker would be allowed to carry it. Also if you had it before the whole standard stowage thing got serious you would still be allowed to keep it and train in it. It's just when you try and purchase it yourself and pay for training yourself that they crack the filtered.
Kangarilla has it wink
As I said Jeff - If you had it before they cracked down on the whole 'standard stowage' thing then you were ok, exactly the same reason we are able to keep the reciprocating saw kit and you guys have the lightweight cylinders. Try and get them now and it might be a different story - basically the RC has to approve it or it stays in your station.
Not True Matt,Naracoorte tyred to get it and where informed its not standrad gear
That is interesting Bill, I remember seeing all the 02 kits sitting in Region One a few years ago waiting to go out to all the RCR brigades, maybe your Region shafted you and you missed out.
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Get realistic - I know most of you are community minded, but having AED and O2 resus gear on the truck would be purely for selfish reasons...in looking after your own! ...and not just for stowage on RCR appliances either....they should ALL have them!
Numbers is on the money.......
SAAS is slowly increasing it's capacity in rural areas - with more Volunteers Community Emergency First Responder (CERT) teams coming on board in areas where it's not been possible to put an ambulance - but as other inteligent individuals have pointed out..the difference in a save and a trip to the coroner's lies in having rapid access to the aforementioned equipment...
...and trust me when I say there's nothing more demoralising than losing one of your own when you know how much more of a chance at survival they would've had if access to BASIC LIFE SUPPORT equipment was available!
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thats probly what it will take though BM...
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Ok if it's for our own people then I agree - but don't use RCR as the justification!
cheers
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i dont think RCR is the justification at all Chook, this was the requirement that CFS set so that they could avoid the cost of issuing said equipment
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There is a station (no names here) that has Oxyviva sets on all the appliances and one appliance I believe also carries a AED.
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There is a station (no names here) that has Oxyviva sets on all the appliances and one appliance I believe also carries a AED.
Mate theres a group that has O2 on every appliance ;) dunno bout your AED though, havent heard of one of those in the CFS yet
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Ah that expains it then - sorry if I miss read the post :oops:
Would have thought all fire appliances would have been equiped anyway as BM said for selfish? reasons. Would have thought basic first aid for smoke inhalation, would have been O2? I mean your not going to do mouth to mouth are you?
And as for the AED more likely from over exertion at a fire?
Just the requirements for this equipment is higher in regards to training etc & the need to keep current - ask how many industrial sites with first aid rooms have an occupational first aider? This is a requirement under the current code of practice (which is being rewritten as I type). As a matter of fact the whole first aid thing is being looked into, due to the complex nature of the current system.
So unless SAAS is going to provide the equipment & training (like CERT training ) then it's a big ask. Maybe thats the answer - all emergency first responders are CERT trained? Would save the services heaps in first aid costs :-D
Cheers
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There is a station (no names here) that has Oxyviva sets on all the appliances and one appliance I believe also carries a AED.
Mate theres a group that has O2 on every appliance ;) dunno bout your AED though, havent heard of one of those in the CFS yet
That would be Region 7 :-P :lol:
Just to clarify BM we want it for firefighters as well as the public, which is the argument :-D
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We wanted it for two reasons,One we kept on beating SAAS to jobs or they where busy else where and there was a few needs for the O2 gear...secondly we did have a couple of jobs where SAAS showed up and the patient or a member was fine and they Left the scene patient then collapsed and SAAS were re paged but busy else where. As I keep saying outside of Metro we are more than just the local fire service and my old brigade has members who are trained in how to drive the ambulance but are also trained in where the gear is and how it works.....
As for the autodefib I did hear that it was on a region one pumper.... :roll:
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It will become harder for CFS to attract & retain members if the list of requirements continues to grow, when all most people on a truck want to do is fight the wild fire in summertime.
cheers
I wouldn't be to sure about that.
What caused this massive crackdown on standard stowage? It seems like a rather pointless (at least from these somewhat biased opinions on here) rule that just pisses every one off.
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Ah that expains it then - sorry if I miss read the post :oops:
Would have thought all fire appliances would have been equiped anyway as BM said for selfish? reasons. Would have thought basic first aid for smoke inhalation, would have been O2? I mean your not going to do mouth to mouth are you?
And as for the AED more likely from over exertion at a fire?
Exactly. And when do us firies end up falling over? After a fire, due to exertion. This should be the primary reason that we have the gear on the appliances. Treating the public is just a happy side effect. There isn't much that we can medically do, but just putting O2 on someone can make a huge difference to their panic and stress levels. Its basic, but it works.
The benefits of having this gear out in the sticks will no doubt be of assistance as if you arrive before the ambos (common, even in R1) you can help the persons involved feel at ease, and as though they are getting treated - Even with just the O2.
Just the requirements for this equipment is higher in regards to training etc & the need to keep current - ask how many industrial sites with first aid rooms have an occupational first aider? This is a requirement under the current code of practice (which is being rewritten as I type). As a matter of fact the whole first aid thing is being looked into, due to the complex nature of the current system.
So unless SAAS is going to provide the equipment & training (like CERT training ) then it's a big ask. Maybe thats the answer - all emergency first responders are CERT trained? Would save the services heaps in first aid costs :-D
Cheers
The training isn't THAT much more. Bag/mask devices just replace mouth to mouth (squeezing a bag is hard), AED's are so simple it's not funny. Crank the 02 cylinder up to 8-15 L/min and let them suck it in. Its not like we are training to be doctors, or anything more than first aiders.
As for the autodefib I did hear that it was on a region one pumper.... :roll:
Whats with the huge rolling of the eyes? Why do people get so annoyed when another brigade identifies a need for a piece of equipment, trains in it's use and purchases it? Oh no, they're in R1 and its a Pumper! Probably means that they are a busy brigade, know what they are doing and give a hoot about their fellow firies. OH NO.
When will people wake up and realise that there ARE brigades out there that have different equipment and training needs? As for all the Region 1 & 2 angst and hatred, get over it. So what if they happen to be the busiest areas of the state? Yeah, not every brigade needs everything, but there are some that do need a higher proportion and specification of equipment but its because of their local area. Its just the way it is.
I wonder what on earth would happen if people in the CFS didn't make decisions based on their brigade. If all these decisions were made based on the simple fact of whats best for the community. All the whining and mud slinging stems from "They get XYZ and we don't! NOT FAIR!". This seems to be the case for EVERYTHING from appliances, to equipment, even to response levels.
Should a house fire have been a 3rd alarm? No. But according to the grievance lodged by a brigade it should have been. Why? Because at a 3rd alarm they would have been called. Oh thats a healthy way to make decisions.
Don't get me wrong. There is a time for asking questions, but they need to be of a legitimate nature. Got a 15 year old 24 that is doing 300 calls a year? Yeah, I'd be asking questions about why brigades that do 20 calls a year are getting new/refurb trucks ahead of you. Got a 34P a few houses and a heap of scrub in your area, yet the neighboring town with a huge industrial estate gets a pumper? Stop whining and get over it.
[/Rant]
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10/10
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[insert raputurous applauding smilie here]
numbers - I applaud someone who displays rational commonsense - on this forum it would appear to be at best - elusive!
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Could not agree more!
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Numbers for PM !.....Now what does pm stand for? :roll:
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What caused this massive crackdown on standard stowage? It seems like a rather pointless (at least from these somewhat biased opinions on here) rule that just filtered every one off.
Two reasons...
1. $$$ - Regional managers have to come in under budget & AEDs & Oxy aren't budgetted.
That's ambo gear.
2. CYA by OH&S directorate on truck load-outs. Over-weight trucks can get staff &
others charged with criminal offences. How many 8.5T & 9T Hinos were presented for
recertification a few years ago with (heavy) items missing? Remember too that the corporate
answer to the over-weight ones was a propsal to insert an air bladder in the tank to
reduce capacity to between 1200 & 1500L.
3. Compared with (2), dead volunteers from heart attacks & the like are a less taxing
administrative nuisance. Can be plausibly written-off as a personal issue, not
Service responsibility.
Anyway, fancy life-support gear is ambo responsibility. (see (1) above)
You can keep what's on your truck when the standard stowage rules were applied (was it
2004?) But when it wears out, lots of luck trying to get a replacement approved.
Numbers & Boredmatrix are correct. The most likely recipients of O2 & AED attention
are our own aging members. see (1) (2) & (3) above.
on that happy note, i think I'll go to bed.
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Anyway, fancy life-support gear is ambo responsibility. (see (1) above)
So should we take the, advanced fire fighting equipment currently on ambulances off (read dry powder extinguisher) as its a fire service responsibility.
AED's should not be viewed as super dooper advanced life support equipment, when they are put on walls in airports, shopping centres and other public places to assist in saving lives, that may be used by ppl with limited or no training, why are trained FF's less capable of using common sense than your average member of the public.
24p
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Word has it that the manager of I&L has today issued an email stating that AED's are now approved to be carried on CFS appliances, they are not prescribed stowage but if a brigade has one donated to them, or they purchase one themselves they are now able to stow it on their vehicle.
I believe the decision had something to do with the fact that the training for these is now part of every first aid course and the fact that they are basically fool proof. It still doesn't help those of us pushing for 02 but it is good news for all I think.
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I am in 2 minds, yeah AED's are nice, but how long before we get sent to CAt 1's when SAAS are short, O2 would be better as we have to many documneted cases in my brigade of eneding it, can't remember the alst time we needed an AED. But hey, if the lions club gave us one at least we can add it to the truck.
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I am in 2 minds, yeah AED's are nice, but how long before we get sent to CAt 1's when SAAS are short, O2 would be better as we have to many documneted cases in my brigade of eneding it, can't remember the alst time we needed an AED. But hey, if the lions club gave us one at least we can add it to the truck.
Maybe when one of your crew goes "Oh my chest" and falls over?
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mmm agreed numbers, however O2 is such a versatile tool...
both would be very nice, but if i could have only one, personally id tend towards the oxygen.
what do some of our ambo friends have to say?
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one would be nice but not the other?
don't know about you lot, but I like gravy on my roast beef....
...just like I like oxygen and a defib together!
some of you are future managers with these attitudes...
"why do we need it??"
6 months later the coroner recommends AED's on appliances after it's found a FF's death could probably have been prevented had the BASIC LIFE SUPPORT equipment been readily accessible....
"we definitely need AED and O2 resus kit on every appliance so this NEVER happens again......"
Please put your brains in the box on the way out the door.....
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mmm agreed numbers, however O2 is such a versatile tool...
Oh for sure, you'll use the O2 far more often that you ever would use the AED. Just pointing out that although the O2 is used for a range of reasons, the piece of equipment that could help deal directly with our leading cause of death is the AED. We really should have both.
Please put your brains in the box on the way out the door.....
Thank you very much. This is it in a nut shell.
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Word has it that the manager of I&L has today issued an email stating that AED's are now approved to be carried on CFS appliances, they are not prescribed stowage but if a brigade has one donated to them, or they purchase one themselves they are now able to stow it on their vehicle.
I believe the decision had something to do with the fact that the training for these is now part of every first aid course and the fact that they are basically fool proof. It still doesn't help those of us pushing for 02 but it is good news for all I think.
Correct Matt, we used the AED on our First Aid Course last December its foolproof.
Maybe the instructor is on the mark when he said all appliances would have it by end 2008?
Maybe upstairs is finally seeing sense in why we put submissions in to get the life saving equipment on appliances. :-)
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Why is everybody getting so outa shape about saving a fireys life with all this nooo fangled eheequipment, after all were just volunteers :roll: not like were politicians or anything special :evil:
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One thing that we all fail to see is that we are here to provide a community service,if we have members who are trained in the use of all this gear and are willing to help the community and SAAS then they should and now have the right to buy the gear. as I keep saying in remote and Hill's area CFS can get into area's a lot faster and safer than SAAS but can also back up the local SAAS crew..Works well with in the Naracoorte group when the Naracoorte brigade is called to help SAAS...
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Spot on Bill! Not only can AED's and Oxy set's benefit us to jobs that we typical respond to....It potentially can create further resources for SAAS to utilise for First Response to Cat1's.
Typical Radio Chatter for a SAAS general broadcast
Medical Case, Littlehampton, fireys first responding, Crew from City, IC from..Ashford.
(Takes only 3-4 cases to use up crews in the Hills to reach that situation)
you may only need command cars to have this equipment in the long run.
Some serious life saving can happen now.
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Or perhaps Vehicle accident Basket Range, car ex Mt Pleasant....
Not that the patient was hurt...but it would have been nice equipment to have, should it have been required......
Pip
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Spot on Bill! Not only can AED's and Oxy set's benefit us to jobs that we typical respond to....It potentially can create further resources for SAAS to utilise for First Response to Cat1's.
CFA have been running a trial with first responders from CFA brigades responding to CAT 1 (not breathing / no pulse) since about the start of the year. From what I have heard there has been a couple of good saves with most people thinking it is generally a worth while exercise. You do have to pick people that are appropriate though as there is obviously going to be some fairly nasty situations that you would be sent to.
The way the SAAS manager was talking the other night at training it sounds like they are keen to significantly increase the number of first responders around the state and will be targetting people from the local CFS / SES/ Retained MFS stations for this sort of training. It doesn't sound like this will be a joint partnership with CFS and SAAS like the CFA model but more of 'do it if you want to' arrangement. I guess if people have the time to do the training and respond to the occasional call then it can only be a good thing.
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The official word on AED's from the Chief Officer.
CFS has moved to support the use of Automatic External Defibrillators (AED's) within the CFS as approved 'Prescribed Equipment'. This decision clears the way for AED's to be carried on CFS Vehicles - it does not mean that CFS will be purchasing and/or specifying AED's as part of the stowage kits on vehicles. Essentially, if a Brigade or Group has an AED, (ie: it may be donated to them) this decision clears the way for that equipment to be carried on appliances as approved equipment. Training for AED's is now part of the Senior First Aid Certificate.
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The official word on AED's from the Chief Officer.
CFS has moved to support the use of Automatic External Defibrillators (AED's) within the CFS as approved 'Prescribed Equipment'. This decision clears the way for AED's to be carried on CFS Vehicles - it does not mean that CFS will be purchasing and/or specifying AED's as part of the stowage kits on vehicles. Essentially, if a Brigade or Group has an AED, (ie: it may be donated to them) this decision clears the way for that equipment to be carried on appliances as approved equipment. Training for AED's is now part of the Senior First Aid Certificate.
(1)How much is a emergency services suitable AED worth?
(2)How much is a emergency services volunteers life worth?
The answer to the second question by the powers that be would at a rough guess be, "The worth of emergency services volunteers to SA is priceless, the state could not hope to function properly without their tremendous work"
The answer to the first question will in no way take into account the answer to the second question! :-( VIVA LA REVOLUTION :evil:
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You can get away with Question 1 Being about $3k
http://justfirsta.cart.net.au/details/2224406.html
This is what we use at work, they are very veyr handy...
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$1500-$2500ish for Phillips Brand.
for 250 units for the CFS: $440,000 One or Two fire appliances.
https://secure.thelifeguardstore.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=146&idproduct=2301
Not only does it do Defibrillation, Provides verbal First Aid instructions for when a shock isnt required. "Breath...Breath...Breath...x 30, Compress, Compress, Analysing Heart Rate....Stand Clear, Delievering electric current....done"
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$1500-$2500ish for Phillips Brand.
BAH! Phillips makes Walkmans and Steros, not life saving technology. I want to save someone, not make them play a tune.
The Zoll for $2995.95, you get:
* Not pushing hard enough? It will tell you when to push harder.
* Pushing hard enough? It will say, "Good compressions."
* Not pushing fast enough? A metronome will lead you to the right rate.
* It will even show you the depth of each compression. In real time.
* Not yet started? The AED Plus will tell you again to get started.
* Compressions stopped? It will tell you to continue.
As well as all your usual AED funtions. In my book, anything that needs to be used by CFS volunteers, needs to be as simple and retard proof as possible - If its going to be used outside of Region 1 that is ;)
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$1500-$2500ish for Phillips Brand.
BAH! Phillips makes Walkmans and Steros, not life saving technology. I want to save someone, not make them play a tune.
The Zoll for $2995.95, you get:
* Not pushing hard enough? It will tell you when to push harder.
* Pushing hard enough? It will say, "Good compressions."
* Not pushing fast enough? A metronome will lead you to the right rate.
* It will even show you the depth of each compression. In real time.
* Not yet started? The AED Plus will tell you again to get started.
* Compressions stopped? It will tell you to continue.
As well as all your usual AED funtions. In my book, anything that needs to be used by CFS volunteers, needs to be as simple and retard proof as possible - If its going to be used outside of Region 1 that is ;)
So id suggest you stay away from something like the zoll brand then. The phillips AED is full proof and doesnt overload you with instructions like some AEDs, aslong as your doing some form of compressions its better than doing none. If you have senior first aid you should know how to do cpr properly. Phillips also make the MRX defibs that SAAS carry.
It would be a huge plus for an appliance to carry O2 & AED and they WILLsave someones life one day whether it be a FF or member of the public will remain to be seen.
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for 250 units for the CFS: $440,000 One or Two fire appliances.
What is the price of a Firefighters life ??
Bulk purchase much cheaper price, this has all ready been looked at!
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id definately go without two new appliances in order to save even 1 Life, No thinking involved at all.
I think its very affordable, even for the treasury peanut counters to relise.
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So id suggest you stay away from something like the zoll brand then. The phillips AED is full proof and doesnt overload you with instructions like some AEDs, aslong as your doing some form of compressions its better than doing none. If you have senior first aid you should know how to do cpr properly. Phillips also make the MRX defibs that SAAS carry.
Tongue in cheek buddy ;)
Anything is better than nothing, but having seen the results of some Snr. 1st aid refreshers I'd imagine that a little help to make things go a little smoother would be fantastic!
Compressions on the stomach, 2 compressions 15 breaths, 1 compression every few seconds, things like this can be sorted out with a little help.
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If your going to buy the gear make sure you shop around.....
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If your going to buy the gear make sure you shop around.....
Don't we just go straight to the lowest bidder?
Do Fisher Price make AEDs?
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Tongue in cheek buddy ;)
Anything is better than nothing, but having seen the results of some Snr. 1st aid refreshers I'd imagine that a little help to make things go a little smoother would be fantastic!
Compressions on the stomach, 2 compressions 15 breaths, 1 compression every few seconds, things like this can be sorted out with a little help.
Ah right, long day underground, But your right about the first aid refreshers some interesting interpretations of CPR out there.
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Time for some facts ( this is from USA)
* Heart attacks were the most frequent cause of death for 2007, with 52 firefighter deaths.
I wonder how many had AED's or wished they had them.
I think you will also find that more than 1 brigade in the state has them.
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I am well aware of a number of CFS brigade's that have or are about to buy this gear,good on them for having the money to do this but also for looking out of the box.....
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In this case i don;t think the USA augment is applicable as many US fire trucks also run to all medical calls. (hence probably have the equipment anyhow)
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In this case i don;t think the USA augment is applicable as many US fire trucks also run to all medical calls. (hence probably have the equipment anyhow)
Well said bittenyakka plus their fire fighters are also trained EMS technicians hence why they have all the medical equipment on their trucks and respond to medical emergencies
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I think the USA argument was pointing out that firefighters die of heart failure more than they die of burns. It wasn't comparing their stowage with ours...
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CFS_Firey you are correct, it had nothing to do with the EMS calls.
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In terms of the US argument, its the same as we have here:
SA,Vic,NSW etc etc, all run A) Different Appliances B) Different Stwoage and C) some First responder services.
Not ALL US Departments run EMS, and often times those that do include EMS run Ambulances out of the station, they dont just have it all stowed on their Fire Appliances.
The fact that Heart Attacks were the most frequent cause of death has nothing to do with the stowage of appliances or the setup of EMS response.
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$1500-$2500ish for Phillips Brand.
BAH! Phillips makes Walkmans and Steros, not life saving technology. I want to save someone, not make them play a tune.
The Zoll for $2995.95, you get:
* Not pushing hard enough? It will tell you when to push harder.
* Pushing hard enough? It will say, "Good compressions."
* Not pushing fast enough? A metronome will lead you to the right rate.
* It will even show you the depth of each compression. In real time.
* Not yet started? The AED Plus will tell you again to get started.
* Compressions stopped? It will tell you to continue.
As well as all your usual AED funtions. In my book, anything that needs to be used by CFS volunteers, needs to be as simple and retard proof as possible - If its going to be used outside of Region 1 that is ;)
that $2295 is the retail price...I reckon if you were to approach the right people you could knock at least $500 or more off that price....especially being a community volunteer group.....or if a Group wanted more than one I'm sure the distributors would talk turkey.....
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$1500-$2500ish for Phillips Brand.
BAH! Phillips makes Walkmans and Steros, not life saving technology. I want to save someone, not make them play a tune.
The Zoll for $2995.95, you get:
* Not pushing hard enough? It will tell you when to push harder.
* Pushing hard enough? It will say, "Good compressions."
* Not pushing fast enough? A metronome will lead you to the right rate.
* It will even show you the depth of each compression. In real time.
* Not yet started? The AED Plus will tell you again to get started.
* Compressions stopped? It will tell you to continue.
As well as all your usual AED funtions. In my book, anything that needs to be used by CFS volunteers, needs to be as simple and retard proof as possible - If its going to be used outside of Region 1 that is ;)
that $2295 is the retail price...I reckon if you were to approach the right people you could knock at least $500 or more off that price....especially being a community volunteer group.....or if a Group wanted more than one I'm sure the distributors would talk turkey.....
actually in the large part of the rest of the world...the Phillips brand is on what we see here as the Laerdal brand. Phillips make it - Laerdal brand it. Its just that in Australia (and a couple of other places) they signed a deal about single market access for the units (smart people them Laerdal types)
Don't be fooled by the Zoll bells and whistles....they are not that good and the research says that untrained punters get bamboozled by them. Depth of compressions cant be measured adequately for each particul;ar body type with their dinky little sensor....sorry, smokescreen marketing at play there. Also in Australia, Zoll are a pain in the arse to deal with. My advice (based on a lot of discussions with them over a number of years) - avoid them like the plague - sorry Robert.
All the major brands for sale in Australia do what they say in terms of delivering a shock when needed, some use different energy levels, although there is no independant research that defines a set energy level as best. All are relatively easy to use, although some of the cheaper lesser used brands (like the Sammaritan) are more difficult in my opinion for untrained people to use. Retard proof??....have to find a trial region to test it if u like....suggestions?...lol
As for costs.....if you were going to buy 400 units.....u'd get them for around $1000 ea...maybe $900 if the dollar picks up a little.
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Don't be fooled by the Zoll bells and whistles....they are not that good and the research says that untrained punters get bamboozled by them. Depth of compressions cant be measured adequately for each particul;ar body type with their dinky little sensor....sorry, smokescreen marketing at play there.
so if these chest compression things are such a smokescreen - why does the latest MRx from phillips that is being supplied to SAAS come with them as a standard item??
not to mention SAAS isn't even buying their (Phillips) AED's (not monitors....the AED's)choosing instead the Cardiac Science brand.....
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so if these chest compression things are such a smokescreen - why does the latest MRx from phillips that is being supplied to SAAS come with them as a standard item??
because the sophistication of the algorithym in the $18k MRX is vastly superior (and several generations more advanced technically) to the $2k Zoll, but the statement is still valid that there is NO PROOF that these things work better than having nothing at all. Interestingly I'm aware that there was some anecdotal evidence that came out of a Company (who shall remain nameless) sponsored trial that showed that using a metronome tone and light resulted in decreased depth of chest compression.....funnily the trial was terminated- go figure. The algorithym the Zoll unit uses is to measure displacement between 38mm and 51mm which is the AHA guidline for compression depth. The Australian Resus Council rejected those numbers as possibly erroneous and without valid proof, and opted for 1/3 the depth of the chest, which makes allowance for differing body types. I can't find the actual algorithym data on the QCPR function in the MRX (not surprisingly - Laerdal are very secretive about what things ACTUALLY do and HOW they do it) , but it looks a similar concept
As the the Cardiac Science units for SAAS. They have always been good units, and if SAAS have bought the G3Pro (which i would assume they have), then it is an excellent unit, especially when you compare it to the tired Laerdal FR2, Lifepack 1000 and Zoll AED Pro units. Their only problem ever was that they were $1000 dearer than the competition. I hear around the traps that SAAS got the deal of the century on them - maybe there were some other (Cardiac Science) motives behind getting them into the system regardless of making money on the deal - but that is just supposition and conjecture (and normal practice in the AED market in Aust)
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thats an awful lot of technical information on that equipment for a pleb....
MOD! - WE HAVE A SALESMAN IN THE ROOM!!!
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I think he is only a part time salesman !
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thats an awful lot of technical information on that equipment for a pleb....
MOD! - WE HAVE A SALESMAN IN THE ROOM!!!
Mu'um!!!.....mu'um!!...make him stop mu'um
awww c'mon...lol...dont misinterpret someone who has worked with them, compared them AND studied the research as having to be a salesman. Funny how the same reference isnt made to all the Monday night experts in the fire related forums...lolol. If you dont know the science behind your equipment.....then ur just a user....and anyone can do that...it certainly doesnt take a degree :wink:...nor justify a case for wage increase.....which may or may not be in the process of being formulated :wink: All the information mentioned is off the companies concerned websites,, its there for anyone with an interest to look at and critically review.
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I hear around the traps that SAAS got the deal of the century on them - maybe there were some other (Cardiac Science) motives behind getting them into the system regardless of making money on the deal - but that is just supposition and conjecture (and normal practice in the AED market in Aust)
Possibly purchased when AU$ was worth US95c rather than US65c ?
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Just wondering if other brigades have started purchasing AED's yet.
Our Group has now got one in each Command Car and each brigade is likely to get one (due to some second hand ones being donated) my brigade is about to purchase at least another one - possibly two depending on how another grant application goes.
Should the CFS be recommending a particular brand or model, or do we just leave it up to brigades to purchase whatever they like.
I've got a few quotes on different models but am still not sure which one to go for, and reading some of the info on here confused the situation a bit more. Anyone got an suggestions for up to $3000.
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The Phillips model seems to be the most common...
Command car > Done
Appliances > Soon (1 AED, several O2's)
heres a question, to get other Point of views.
Would an AED be more worthwhile to be placed on a 34 or 14.
Theory is, that a 14 is able to become a Ad-hoc command vehicle so yes it seems sensible.
Meanwhile 34's are out of the fireground having to do a heap more work in between Rest (refill) breaks.
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Here's another question: Would an AED be better on a rural appliance, or an urban appliance? (If you're in a brigade lucky enough to have both).
As far as resuscitating members of the public, it's more likely to get used on an Urban (inc. Rescue) appliance, but if you want it for the fire fighters, I'm thinking a rural appliance would be better?
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The Phillips model seems to be the most common...
Command car > Done
Appliances > Soon (1 AED, several O2's)
heres a question, to get other Point of views.
Would an AED be more worthwhile to be placed on a 34 or 14.
Theory is, that a 14 is able to become a Ad-hoc command vehicle so yes it seems sensible.
Meanwhile 34's are out of the fireground having to do a heap more work in between Rest (refill) breaks.
Correct me if I am wrong, but if it is a multi-appliance incident that requires a command vehicle around, would you not have first-aid facilities already at the base for everyone (eg eye wash, smoke affected, exhaustion, small wounds, etc)?
At least the base would be easy access via sealed roads for SAAS (thus quick response) & multiple people around to assist.
But out at the fire front, you would have a longer delay in the AED & O2 getting to the casualty. Also less people to assist the casuality & a more dangerous environment (incl dust, dirt, smoke, heat, etc). Not only for fellow crew, but also if you find a casualty on the fire ground.
If so, personally I would put the equipment on the 34. They will be more isolated when working & the bonus is that the equipment is at site for a less than 3 appliance incident, when the command car is not around. That is if you can fit the extra equipment in the truck.
If you are going to transport the equipment via a command car to the site, I would have thought it would arrive too late to be useful.
If the 34 did the transport, it will have extra protection equipment for the casualty in the fireground environment when compared to a command car.
Just my thoughts.
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Correct me if I am wrong, but if it is a multi-appliance incident that requires a command vehicle around, would you not have first-aid facilities already at the base for everyone (eg eye wash, smoke affected, exhaustion, small wounds, etc)?
The CFS uses command cars as spotters and strike team leaders, as well as for shipping around the big wigs. Usually any incident bigger than a 2 appliance response (including RCR, House fires, Hazmats etc), will have a at least one command car on scene. Using the principle that the same command cars will cover an entire group, it could make more sense to fit them out, rather than every fire appliance, which may not leave their own brigade area.
I agree that it makes more sense to have the AEDs on scene though - if a command car only ever goes to the group base, I don't think it's worth having and AED on it.
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Correct me if I am wrong, but if it is a multi-appliance incident that requires a command vehicle around, would you not have first-aid facilities already at the base for everyone (eg eye wash, smoke affected, exhaustion, small wounds, etc)?
The CFS uses command cars as spotters and strike team leaders, as well as for shipping around the big wigs. Usually any incident bigger than a 2 appliance response (including RCR, House fires, Hazmats etc), will have a at least one command car on scene. Using the principle that the same command cars will cover an entire group, it could make more sense to fit them out, rather than every fire appliance, which may not leave their own brigade area.
I agree that it makes more sense to have the AEDs on scene though - if a command car only ever goes to the group base, I don't think it's worth having and AED on it.
Extract: Usually any incident bigger than a 2 appliance response (including RCR, House fires, Hazmats etc), will have a at least one command car on scene.
- Not at any 2+ appliance job ive ever been at!.. Sure rural jobs maybe, but what about all the over resourced prangs and car fires, alarms and rubbish like that.. - I have only seen Command Cars at 2 Alarm incidents or above.. - Is that what you meant?
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Just wondering if other brigades have started purchasing AED's yet.
Our Group has now got one in each Command Car and each brigade is likely to get one (due to some second hand ones being donated) my brigade is about to purchase at least another one - possibly two depending on how another grant application goes.
Should the CFS be recommending a particular brand or model, or do we just leave it up to brigades to purchase whatever they like.
I've got a few quotes on different models but am still not sure which one to go for, and reading some of the info on here confused the situation a bit more. Anyone got an suggestions for up to $3000.
mattB.....at the probable risk of being hammered again as a salesman, here is my summary of what to look for;
a. device delivers at least 150J of energy. There is no data to confirm the optimal setting, but in my experience less than 15oJ is less likely to be sufficient - again, personal opinion
b. you want the device to be a minimum of IPX5 rated....this relates to its water proofness....it correlates to its dust proofness as well...which as u know is an issue in appliances.
c. Minimum of 5 year battery and electrode life...they are expensive to replace....about $180 a set.
d. You want the electrodes pre-connected to the machine.....in an emergency, time counts and clumsy fingers will be present
e. don't pay more than $2200 for a unit.....there are good examples under or around that
f. whoever u get your unit from, u should get a free training session for all of your crew - and get hands on fitting it to a manikin, not just a talk.
g. dont be fooled by the sales gimmicks like the depth measure etc....see my comments on this post earlier....they arent a good indicator of adequate compression (according to the Australian guidelines)
I think thats about it....if u want further advice....pm me if u like, otherwise no doubt some sooky la-la will get all ansy
I have a document with a single technical comparison for all common brands of AEDs on the market if you are interested, but i cant post it with this reply as the file is too big If you want a copy leave your email on here and I'll send it through There is a second document which is of a newer one that is on the market that I havent had a chance to incorporate into the larger document....please compare them all and see what suits u guys
as for other Brigades....yes there are at least 7 that I know that have them. Most of them are on rural response appliances - if u think the ambos or the command car will get to u in 4 minutes, then u probably dont need one on that appliance...otherwise please consider, as they say.
Theres probably no value in the CFS recommending a single model, their technology changes that frequently that it would make it mostly superfluous....and lets face it, no-one follows those rules anyway with anything else..lol. As I said in my original post, ALL of the units on the market deliver a shock when the button is pushed....thats what counts - the rest is but incidental
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I think its more likely to be beneficial to the brigade being on the appliance used for primary rural response, as this is where the old fat vollunteer fire men are likely to run up a hill then cark it. This is also when SAAS are likely to have a longer response time, due to the fact that you might be up the boon docks but also they dont auto dispatch to rural fires.
However, it would be more beneficial to the community/publis being on the urban response appliance, for road crash, structure fires, special service calls, etc. In this case though we are more likely to have a faster response from saas or even have them on scene to begin with.
So really depends on the reasoning behind purchase... I'd lean towards putting it on the truck for the firies protection though.
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- Not at any 2+ appliance job ive ever been at!.. Sure rural jobs maybe, but what about all the over resourced prangs and car fires, alarms and rubbish like that.. - I have only seen Command Cars at 2 Alarm incidents or above.. - Is that what you meant?
Geeez.... mate, you need to spend some time in my group. Cant sneeze without falling over a command car.
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trust trust trust......where's the trust Trev?
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I think thats about it....if u want further advice....pm me if u like, otherwise no doubt some sooky la-la will get all ansy
Thanks misterteddy, PM sent to you regarding this.
As for the whole rural truck v urban truck issue, there is probably no right or wrong answer. Our whole theory behind the purchase was that it was there for our primary use and if we can use it on a member of the public then that is great too. The likelihood of one of our guys going down on the fireground is reasonably high, the chance of having a SAAS or St John unit on scene within four minutes is very low so at least we can try do and do something ourselves. Murphys Law however will ensure that what ever truck is carrying the AED will be in a completely different part of the fire ground though.
In an ideal situation all trucks would have one - and that is what we are trying to do. No doubt once someone dies from a heart attack on the fireground they will end up as part of the standard stowage kit.
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- Not at any 2+ appliance job ive ever been at!.. Sure rural jobs maybe, but what about all the over resourced prangs and car fires, alarms and rubbish like that.. - I have only seen Command Cars at 2 Alarm incidents or above.. - Is that what you meant?
Yeah, re-reading that the 2 appliance comment was a bit stupid. Would it be safe to say any incident that's a worthwhile incident? (Structure fires, Rescues, Going-well grassfires etc?)
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Just thought I would update our situation at Morphett Vale in regards to the AED's.
We have been successful in gaining two grants for the purchase of AED's. After some consultation and a bit of investigation we are looking at getting two of the Lifeline Defibtech units http://www.defibtech.com/ (http://www.defibtech.com/). There are other units around that have more bells and whistles but for robustness and ease of use these seem to the be pretty good. Apparently the service from the company is very good as well. There is a good demo on their website of how easy it is to use if you are interested.
We have some training organised from the supplier in the specific use of these units as well as some general AED training for those that haven't done it on their first aid course yet.
I know of one other brigade that has also received a grant for one, anyone else buying them yet ??
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I know of one other brigade that has also received a grant for one, anyone else buying them yet ??
Not for lack of trying, but someome just keeps us doing more submissions and then says NO anyway :evil:
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Jeff, are you talking about grant application being rejected, or do you mean someone is not allowing you to purchase an AED and carry it on your appliance ??
Or are you referring to Oxygen therapy gear, in which case I think it may be time to have another crack at getting it approved.
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Bill it may be standard stowage for CFS RCR but O2 is not listed in the equipment list in the Road Crash Rescue directory. And this is the "bible".
And why should it? RCR brigades/units/teams role in life is to provide a Rescue capability, not be a "super team" that does everything!
Last time I looked into a SAAS bus they carried all of that stuff & based on recent events they would be paged to a RCR job before rescue, so why carry gear you don't need! It's just more training & maintenance you need to do.
On the other hand ask yourself why Inland marine don't carry O2? Would have thought the need was greater. If you want to take on the Paramedics job as well become a community responder unit for SAAS & all of the training & equipment needs would be coveeed by them :wink:
I think it's about time that CFS & it's people start looking at every wildfire enquiry in Australia since Ash Wednesday. Hidden in the pages somewhere is a recommendation that the Lead agency for wildfire (CFA,RFS,CFS)needs to focus on their core business - combating wildfire! Thats why in the states that have tried to combine their emergency services, there is still a volunteer "bush" fire brigade.
So in my humble opinion stop worrying about some piece of gear that someone else has (& something we have never missed) & just focus on what you have got & need.
cheers
So the core business of the CFA (Victoria) is wildfire?
So why do they protect over half of the urban area of Melbourne and all of the rest of the state including Geelong (pop 160,000), Ballarat (80,000) and Bendigo (80,000)?
So why do they have seven aerial appliances (Bronto's, Telebooms)?
So why do they employ 480 career firefighters (that's firefighters - not support staff).
So why in comparison do they have a greater structural/rescue/hazmat capacity than the SA MFS.
Because you say their core business is wildfires? - I think not. :evil:
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Interesting point Whiteknight - so who's core business is it? Considering last weeks activities in Victoria.
Flood & Storm is SES core business in every state, but my last two units did far more RCR in a year than storm damage - still SES core business!
Yes I appreciate the fact that the CFA has moved from its rural volunteer back ground.
But as I said if it's not your primary role - then who is doing the wild fire fire fighting (don't worry I already know the answer).
And no offence was meant. :-D
cheers
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chook!!! u have no idea, your posts crack me up!!! get a life!
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Don't get personal..
get back on topic or make a new core business thread.
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Thanks for your constructive input Jason - its not I who should get a life chief!
Read what was written properly & both you & Whiteknight jump in at the last minute Whiteknights comments were at least sensible.
And while I'm at it how about you read the coroner's/ Judicial reports re: bush fires in Vic & SA since Ash Wednesday (including Ash Wednesday)- funny the judges say the same thing!
Anyway again thanks for your insightful comments - really increased our collective thoughts on the subject.
cheers
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Jeff, are you talking about grant application being rejected, or do you mean someone is not allowing you to purchase an AED and carry it on your appliance ??
Or are you referring to Oxygen therapy gear, in which case I think it may be time to have another crack at getting it approved.
Just the gear Matt :wink:
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I am wondering if some of the people out there that carry 02 therapy gear on their appliance can tell me (or put up a pic or two) what type of kits they are carrying. I am interested in seeing what other brigades have purchased and what they actually use.
I am wondering whether we actually need to carry a suction kit ??
I am thinking that a few various sized masks, bag and mask and a variety of Oropharyngeal airways might be main things we need, I guess a cylinder and tubing would also be handy :)
If someone could supply the brand and model numbers of the kits they have that would be useful.
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email inbound over the weekend Matt
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Matt, most brigades have the Oxy-Viva Resuscitator 3 which are getting a bit old, but there are a later version and comes in a kit the same as MFS carry on board.
The advantage with the Oxy-Viva was it also had suction capabilty.
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I am wondering whether we actually need to carry a suction kit ??
depends how many ppol you plan on drowning.....
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The advantage with the Oxy-Viva was it also had suction capabilty.
At the expense of having oxygen to deliver... (it uses your oxygen to provide suction).
I reckon a hand operated pump will suffice.
I also not a fan of demand oxygen for lay persons or for Health proessionals - Stick with BVM, I reckon. ;)
Cheers
Shane
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er - demand oxygen? Isn't anything that comes out when you turn the cylinder or outlet on - on demand?
or are you making reference to oxygen POWERED resuscitation devices which deliver oxygen under greater pressures?
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Thanks for the pick up, BM..
and YES thats what I was referring to.
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Does anyone have a completed CFS risk assesment for the stowage and use of Oxygen Therapy equipment.
I know that a number of brigades are carrying it so I assume that someone has probably done a risk assesment at some stage on it. I am trying to avoid re-inventing the wheel, if someone else would be kind enough to send me theirs it would be greatly appreciated.
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Does anyone have a completed CFS risk assesment for the stowage and use of Oxygen Therapy equipment.
I know that a number of brigades are carrying it so I assume that someone has probably done a risk assesment at some stage on it. I am trying to avoid re-inventing the wheel, if someone else would be kind enough to send me theirs it would be greatly appreciated.
Matt
contact the RCR Training Officer at Brukunga. As the CFS provide it for RCR crews, then there should be a CFS'ified version already available that u can modify for any unique situations that might affect ur Brigade. If they cant find one or tell you there isnt one....then obviously its not a requirement and refer the person asking for one for you, to the CFS Training Dept for the definitive guidance.
Failing all that, if you have to do one as a Brigade, and want a hand with it, let me know
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Thanks to those that have assisted me with this project, as a result we are now carrying an 02 Therapy kit and an AED on Morphett Vale 24P and Morphett Vale 24. For info we went with the Defibtech Lifeline AED, and the NEANN-OBR 02 kit.
After having completed and Senior First Aid refresher and an Advanced Resus course on the weekend I can say that the Advanced Resus was definitely the most useful and more interesting. No offence to St John but I think the course could easily be made more interesting and relevant (I know they are trying to cater for the whole community but really how much bandaging have we ever done). At least it is now only one day for an initial or refresher.
The instructor for our Advanced Resus focused on what we need to know as first responders, and the sort of things that we would actually expect to be doing, all of the guys came away from that saying that course was better than any of the first aid courses we have done.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s185/mattb850/O2kits002-small.jpg)
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Good to hear Matt, did those companies provide the training as well or was that outsourced?
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The supplier of the AED and 02 equipment also did the training.
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looks good in its new home Matt...well done on all your hard work to get it for your Brigade....let's hope you never have to use it...lol
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Matt,...good job, earlier you asked as to any other brigades had done a risk assessment on this equipment?
Had a previous risk assessment been done that you could use as justification, for your own brigades placement, or did you need to carry out one yourself?
AED's as I understand it have already been approved for brigades to carry, if purchased by themselves, has the question been asked as to whether oxygen will now follow suit?
Can you give us all an idea of what hoops your brigade had to jump through, to get it accepted?
Cheers Jaff
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My brigade have also just added O2 to its AED Package. It goes on the first responding appliance.
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The process really isn't that involved, the hardest part is convincing the Group that we need the gear and working out who is going to pay for the kits, the training, the annual servicing, the cylinders and the ongoing re-accreds each year. Once we worked that out the Group Officers were happy to support it.
The next step is to get a 'Prescribed Equipment Form 2' completed and signed by your Group Officer, that then goes to the Regional Commander who then signs off on it and it goes to the Infrastructure and Logistics gurus, once they are happy with your what your are purchasing and how you are going to stow it you can then place an order. As we were using some money left over from the AED grants we had a few other things to sort out but the whole process took a couple of months from the time we got serious about it to the time we completed the training and put the gear on the trucks.
We were also fortunate enough to obtain a previous risk assessment that had been conducted by someone at Region One, fortunately it was for the same kits as we purchased so required very little alteration.
As for other brigades purchasing 02 therapy gear I guess it depends where you are as to how likely your Regional Commander is to sign off on it. Our Group Officer had some discussions with with the Regional Commander prior to our application and he now seems happy with the concept, other R.C's might not feel the same way though.
As for the AED's, they are approved to go, there is an email from the Chief with his permission to carry these. However because they generally cost over $1500 you will still need the approval of your Region to purchase them.
After conducting the training on the weekend and undertaking a fair bit of research into AED's and how they work I am pretty comfortable that our brigade has spent the money wisely. I can see a huge benefit to the community and the CFS if these are widely deployed on fire service vehicles. It will only be a matter of time before a life is saved with this gear.
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We at Happy Valley also had 2 new O2 kits approved at the same time as Morphett Vale, we didn't do anything different in our submission than we did the other half a dozen times, it seems that the change in Region 1 commander has made a change in attitudes to this equipment, or maybe it was just a coincidence.
We haven't gone for the AED yet, we are very please about the O2, as we have so many documented times that it could have been used, so this will come in very handy.
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Sounds like a good Win Darren. Well done.
I understand your the EO there, definately a good 'notch' of acomplishment to add to the belt!
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I can't see why it took a long time. A few brigades around the state have had this equipment for many years.
Brigades know what they need, why can't others