SA Firefighter
General Discussion => Country Fire Service => Topic started by: rusty on September 29, 2006, 11:44:14 AM
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I can't understand why Brigades will page for more crew... either they're coming or they're not... I believe that if you have to page for more crew (or a driver etc) then you should default instead.
Whaddayareckon?
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It depends, sometimes you have a truck out the door and need a second crew. This page can hurry up the people who are getting the shopping out of the car or washing the shampoo from their hair. :-D
If it's been a awhile and the first truck has not responded then the it should be a default no question.
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sometimes i haven't heard the first page, but the second gets me going, it also tells those who are considering if they should come or not, to come.
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I know of some brigades which used their "More crew required" button as an indication that someone is a the station (perhaps they need to get their decoder buttons reprogrammed!)
I am also aware of a number of people, in different brigades, who often don't get the initial message, but for some reason get the next one (which is often the "more crew required button" )
So, for some brigades, that message is not necessarily an indication of lack of crew.
Pip
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Yeah, we just default if we can't get crew. Although it might be an idea to get one of the buttons re programmed for summer, along the lines of "More crew required for tanker" hmmm....
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I can't understand why Brigades will page for more crew... either they're coming or they're not... I believe that if you have to page for more crew (or a driver etc) then you should default instead.
Whaddayareckon?
disagree. we have a problem with getting drivers at the moment, so its often the case that a driver is around, but just decides not to respond. As manny said its also gd to get the ones that are around but not responding to respond if you need 1 or 2 crew.
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Rusty is spot on. If people choose not to respond on the first message why are they there at all? Slack, no-interest, good-for-nothing, waste of SFEC spacers. Public would love to know that Bill didn't feel like driving today, so his family died in a house fire. That's OK though, Bill. No worries.. We'll page for someone else to come. Maybe after 15 mins we'll ask for another brigade, then wait while they page for more crew.
If members don't get the first page then FIX THE PAGING SYSTEM.
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We send out the messages so as the siren goes off as well for the blockies on the tractors. :-D
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Fix the paging system?
Unfortunately you are dealing with a medium which will never be perfect. There are many things which will alter/block/distort radio communications.
We have many people in our are that have negatiated with their employers that they can go only if short of crew (better than nothing), so the second page is a good way of communicating that is the case. We know they are there, they just have other obligations with their employers.
Besides we know in 3 minutes of arriving if there will be an issue with numbers. this doesnt force our response times out to 15 minutes. it would take quite a bit longer for the neighbouring brigades to get a crew and roll than it takes the pager message and extra crew to respond.
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All fair enough. Especially see the point with employer negotiations.
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I'm with Mike,
A lot of our members have also negotiated with employers to go on second siren or page. We also have members that work 20 minutes from town on farms. Usually they don't respond on first page as they will never make the truck but on second page at least they can get moving for second crew, or meet second appliance on scene.
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Rusty is spot on. If people choose not to respond on the first message why are they there at all? Slack, no-interest, good-for-nothing, waste of SFEC spacers. Public would love to know that Bill didn't feel like driving today, so his family died in a house fire. That's OK though, Bill. No worries.. We'll page for someone else to come. Maybe after 15 mins we'll ask for another brigade, then wait while they page for more crew.
If members don't get the first page then FIX THE PAGING SYSTEM.
HEY, I thought we were all volunteers that actually have a life outside of emergency services.
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If members don't get the first page then FIX THE PAGING SYSTEM.
How do * we * as CFS fix the paging system?
I have one road in the district, which has eight members living on it. On any given call, less than half will get the first pager message. (Hence, we use our siren regularly. )
We have submitted the relevant phone calls / reports etc via the GRN helpdesk, but the eventual answer is "The provider is meeting the contractual obligations"
So, we just end up wearing the problem. Other brigades in my area are worse of then my brigade, in terms of GRN pager coverage.
Long live the siren!!!
Pip
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indeed and then there's Mylor who are still on Orange/3 paging and have been told the GRN pager coverage will not be fixed/improved in their area so stop reporting it.
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Responding more crew is good if you need to get more people. However our station has used it and had to wait 2 minuts for the page to be recieved after pressing the mor crew button. Buy which time there had been a stop call.
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We push the 'More Crew Required' button four minutes after the initial page if we haven't got a truck going, at the same time we also respond another brigade to the incident. This lets people know that we may be a bit short on crew today so they should turn up for any other incidents, in some cases this may mean leaving work when normally they wouldn't.
We have had a number of times where our members have slept through or not heard the inital page but then heard the second one and responded.
Today's incident wouldn't be a good example as it was only a priority two response, so the four minutes was extended out to seven minutes.
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We push the button only if we have not got enough members,but these days we tend to use the siren as that works but also allows other brigade members who are in town from our rural brigades at chance to turn out with us.....
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Rusty - i agree with you, personally i dont see the point of sending out a page asking for more crew as rather stupid, because in theory everyone who is available should already be on there way....
on the other hand some brigades use it as a chance to send out the "URGMSG" prefix and activate the siren... perhaps it should all be changed over to the "manual siren activation" message.....
:?
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Some people are tired or have other things that need doing so cant respond at the time but they see more crew are required so they decide to go. I know a few people who do that, decide against it on the first time but are prepared and do go if more crew page comes through.
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I still strongly believe that if you're in the area, and can go, you go.
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yeah I agree some dont however.
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some pick their calls they want to attend......
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and I hate that, but this has been talked about in another thread.
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some dont want to be In CFS to be part time professional unpaid firefighter. They join for the social aspect and for something to do, they are in it for fun which is also good and dont want to go to some call outs.
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as with anything there is pros and cons for every thing....
personelly there is time when all you want to do sit done and relax for 5 mins and that is normally the time the pager goes off.....
i that at time said no im not going tonight cos im too tired on the first page but whin the second page comes across i pull the boots on and find the enagy to respond. does this make me slack NO it is me putting myself before the call out for a change, anyother call that i am avaliable for i respond.
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rusty i agree with Matty B, wait for the 4 minutes, default then push your more crew button. If your members choose to ignore the first page well bad luck for the community. problem with having pagers saying what the job is, people are too picky.
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Yeah, we just default if we can't get crew. Although it might be an idea to get one of the buttons re programmed for summer, along the lines of "More crew required for tanker" hmmm....
Contact AEC and they will program whatever you like on the decoder :wink:
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Yeah, we just default if we can't get crew. Although it might be an idea to get one of the buttons re programmed for summer, along the lines of "More crew required for tanker" hmmm....
Contact AEC and they will program whatever you like on the decoder :wink:
Thanks for that enlightening piece of information! Im making a list of what we should get done to the FSI.
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This is a problem
1909102 10:04:50 02-10-06 SHQ: CFSRES: NEALES FLAT & TRURO RESPOND BUILDING FIRE 12KM NORTH OF TRURO TOWARD EUDUNDA ON EUDUNDA-TRURO RD. BELIEVE DUTTON AREA - NO FURTHER DETAILS < 2/10/2006 10:04:38
then
1909434 10:12:12 02-10-06 SHQ: CFSRES: EUDUNDA RESPOND BUILDING FIRE 12KM NORTH OF TRURO TOWARD EUDUNDA ON EUDUNDA-TRURO RD. BELIEVE DUTTON AREA - NO FURTHER DETAILS - DEFAULT FOR NEALES FLAT < 2/10/2006 10:11:59
and then
1909434 10:20:26 02-10-06 EUDN: *CFSRES: MORE CREW REQUIRED RESPOND EUDUNDA STN 02-10-06 10:18
it is all good but they wanted more crew 20 min after the first page to cover a Defult
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some people cant leave work unless another message comes saying they are short on crew... there are heaps of reason... but how long should one wait after hitting more crew req button?
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Contact AEC and they will program whatever you like on the decoder :wink:
on the last 2 buttons of the decoder (F1 to F6 are fixed, see SOP 10.1), although it should be coordinated at group level (at least) to get some kind of consistency.
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By the look of the paging screens - looks like there were problems yesterday with getting crews to go to KI "*CFSRES: MORE CREW REQUIRED RESPOND STN"
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Well its because crews were busy right around the state yesterday oz fire i was suprised CFS didnt ask for region 5 crews to go to KI but that is because we had our own fire problems down here including the large fire @ Beachport
Plus it wasnt just KI from what i seen on the news last night there was trouble in getting a strike team from Port Linc or Victor Harbor to respond to a scrub fire leaving a couple brigades and bombers to do the dirty work due to crews already being on KI
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Rusty - i agree with you, personally i dont see the point of sending out a page asking for more crew as rather stupid, because in theory everyone who is available should already be on there way....
What About This Situation. I Am Looking After My Brothers So I Am Not Really Available. But If We Are Short Of Crew I Can Arrange For Someone Else To Look After Them While I Respond.
How Is This Not A Suitable Use? I Was Not Available Before Hand But Because The Need Was There I Am Able To Make My Self Available.
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I see your point... but i still stand by my theory that if your available you respond, otherwise you dont really need to care, and your brigade can send its neighbours to back them up
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Looks like some people obviously don't have kids. Basically, if the pager goes off, some parents may feel that they shouldn't bother the neighbours etc. But if the pager goes off again, then it certainly makes that decision to dump the kids off with the elderly neighbour a lot easier.
Since we don't get paid to sit around on our duffs waiting for calls, I don't think it is unreasonable to sometimes miss that first page through circumstance.
For example: anyone been caught on the bog when the pager goes off? What are you gonna do, shove some TP up ya crack and run for the door?
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For example: anyone been caught on the bog when the pager goes off? What are you gonna do, shove some TP up ya crack and run for the door?
Ha Ha Hasn't Happened To Me Yet But I Know A Few Members That It Has Happened To. I Have Had It In The Shower.
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Regardless of what the page is if we are available we go, and the circumstances surrounding why we couldnt straight off the back is the individuals business.
It has been demonstrated on this forum there are other factors taken into account, but yes if you cant get out the door in 4 or 6 minutes default.Noone is going to shame you for following SOP's :-D
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I cant believe how within few days what was green now turning brown looking at the Sellick Ranges just show that..
last weeks fires.....showed how low the responce numbers were and its not really summer....even though the fire season has started
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Regardless of what the page is if we are available we go, and the circumstances surrounding why we couldnt straight off the back is the individuals business.
It has been demonstrated on this forum there are other factors taken into account, but yes if you cant get out the door in 4 or 6 minutes default.Noone is going to shame you for following SOP's :-D
4 to 6 minutes might be alright for some brigades but an average turnout time where i live is 8-12mins. And there is nothing we can do about it. Its just the fact that our crews have to travel so far to the station.
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4 to 6 minutes might be alright for some brigades but an average turnout time where i live is 8-12mins. And there is nothing we can do about it. Its just the fact that our crews have to travel so far to the station.
Thats it in a nut shell - we all provide the same service to the community - fire response, just some communities, due to size, geographics and population spread take a little longer to get on the road - and their community accepts that :-D
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4 to 6 minutes might be alright for some brigades but an average turnout time where i live is 8-12mins. And there is nothing we can do about it. Its just the fact that our crews have to travel so far to the station.
Thats it in a nut shell - we all provide the same service to the community - fire response, just some communities, due to size, geographics and population spread take a little longer to get on the road - and their community accepts that :-D
And if the community doesn't like it, perhaps more of them should put their money where their mouth is, and join themselves! :evil:
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And if the community doesn't like it, perhaps more of them should put their money where their mouth is, and join themselves! :evil:
Amen to that.
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Second that thought - all in favour?
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Second that thought - all in favour?
I
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Carried!
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Carried!
On that note we expect more people in our community to stand up to the plate :evil: