SA Firefighter
Equipment => All Equipment discussion => Topic started by: bittenyakka on March 11, 2008, 05:28:34 PM
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as are BA sets are of Sabre Centurion type who are they made buy? and does this company exist anymore? as Google has failed me completely.
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check this out
http://www.scottint.com/categories/Air-Supplied/Escape-Breathing-Apparatus/2506
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ah... The Sabre Centurion is made by Sabre...
Sabre make other set like the Contour and the ELSA.
http://www.sabreh2s.com/
http://www.sabreh2s.com/H2S-datasheets/BA%20Data/Sabre/BA%20BROCHURE%20ENG.pdf
Enjoy!
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thanks I take it the reason our sets are not on these sites is because they are acient?
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Pretty much. That and the Contour is essentially the better version of the Centurion. The centurion appears in the above linked BA catalog, but not in the Fire Service BA catalog - That links to SCOTT airpaks.
Wear almost anything other than a Centurion and you'll see just how painful the Centurions are.
I hear the Siebe Gorman Proto could be a good investment opportunity for the CFS...
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understand that the service contract of CABA is going out to tender....so watch this space.....
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Were lucky we have even got Sabre's,otherwise we would still be wearing Drager P80's :-o
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well the sabers are fine could we just have carbon fiber cylinders?
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The Centurions would be fine if it wasn't for that lovely metal back plate - that is a world of pain right there.
One day CFS will get on the Carbon Fibre journey.
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They better get a move on, we have 4 sets approaching there use by date!!
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where is the used by date? and i am guessing they can't be purchased any more?
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I didn't know that they sets themselves had a used by date, seeing as though most components can be replaced. How long is the service life?
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Guys
CABA sets do not have a used by date. They have a service date and what happens is parts are replaced and serviced to the age of the CABA sets. Therefore the older the set the more work is completed. A full major service is done every 10 years. Then its start from 0 years again.
All parts are still available as the SABRE Contour uses the same CABA running gear.
If you have recently received a new CABA set you will notice it is a SABRE CONTOUR.
CFS at this stage has no intentions in replacing the CABA sets as the sets we are currently using are still meeting our requirements.
Also remember that SABRE CENTURION are also used by industry and oher fire services interstate.
CFS did have input on the working party with SAMFS for their new CABA sets and I am guessing at that time which was a couple of years ago CFS were looking at completing a replacement. But when looking at the finer details it would have been a serious change in equipment and training therefore I presuming it did not occur.
If you think about it, the set replacement would of been easy but changing the valves in all cylinders to meet the new sets would of been a big nightmare.
My opinion is this, CFS uses CABA over the whole state at 15% of incidents, so with this low number usage our CABA sets are quite fine.
If your backplates are giving you grief well then you are either not wearing the set correctly or the harness has stretched on the backplate.
At some time we will have to replace but just not at this time. We don't want to have the same problem like we did 20 years ago when some groups were using three diffent CABA sets. SABRE CENTURION, DRAGER P80, DRAGER A100.
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Well will 300bar Carbon Fibre, "OHS Friendly" BA Cylinders, ring a bell?
Since everything else is OHS this OHS that...might be soon rather than later when this change occurs to suit with the OHS parrots.
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Zippy
A 300 bar 8 litre CFW cylinder which I presume you are taking about has less total duration than a 207 bar 9 litre FRP or CFW cylinder.
Do the maths!! :wink:
But if you are concerned about the weight, I can not see the issue of brigades / groups changing to CFW cylinders instead of FRP cylinders as the price difference is only $100.00. I do know of groups which are looking at the replacement of CFW when their FRP 15 year life span is completed. I would believe the groups would pay the extra $100.00
But problems consist with this:
* Different size cylinder, therefore a quick release strap is more appropriate to be fitted to the set if you run both type of cylinders.
* CFW cylinders have a more of a chance of being damaged and being condemned out of service on inspection.
So really for the minimal usage of a CABA set for the CFS does it really warrant having CFW cylinders. I guess each group will be different with it needs.
FRP cylinders are not that bad when you can consider the steal cylinders we were using 10 years ago.
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like myself Zippy wasn't out fighting fires ten years ago :lol:
Does anyone think that if we went to lighter cyliinders the idea of "i don't want to get a BA set out it's sooooo heavy" which i know exists would dissapear? or would the dread of cleaning them still hold the whole thing back?
I tend not to think like this but some older people i have spoken to seem to have "the way we used to do it" stuck in their head
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Toughen up...Dont be Lazy :-P
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Does anyone think that if we went to lighter cyliinders the idea of "i don't want to get a BA set out it's sooooo heavy" which i know exists would dissapear? or would the dread of cleaning them still hold the whole thing back?
I agree with that theory. I hear that a lot.... I dont mind the FRP's...but reducing the back stress when you "CAN"...should be done ;)
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Dan, I did the maths, did you?
Working duration is:
300 Bar - 41min
207 Bar - 36min
The 300Bar CFW cylinders on polycarbonate backplates are an amazing difference. Its like chalk and cheese. I agree with your point about the low usage of SCBA in the CFS, but perhaps individual groups and regions need to get on the journey and investigate the purchase of better sets and cylinders for brigades that do use SCBA regularly. The obvious candidates are going to be Hazmat brigades and those that do a fair number of alarms/structural fires.
CFW cylinders aren't the precious little eggs that everyone seems to suggest, they can take a beating for sure.
Plus, think of the fun you can have running dual 300Bar cylinders, for a whole 92 minutes of working time! Oh the joy!
Bittenyakka, time to get people who think like that a few bucks for a can of harden up and a phone call to 1800-Boo-Hoo. Throwing a set on isn't that hard, and your lungs will thank you. Good heavens the cleaning takes a whole 10 minutes and most of that is letting the disinfectant do its think. Oh life is tough! :P
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I was just about to post and Red Message beat me to it. My calculations support his, assuming you expand the cylinder to atmospheric pressure which is actually a bit more than 1 bar, but close enough.
For the 9L 207 bar cylinder:
1.863m^3
For the 8L 300 bar cylinder:
2.4m^3
In short, (depending on the usage rate), it turns into 37 minutes for the 200 bar cylinder and 48 minutes for the 300 bar cylinder... Close enough to what Red worked out.
Maybe Dan was actually thinking of the 6L or 6.8L 300 bar CFW cylinders which I thought some services are going to, in which case:
6.8L = 2.04m^3 = 40 minutes
6L = 1.8m^3 = 36 minutes
So the 6.8L 300 bar cylinder holds slightly more than a 9L 200 bar cylinder but the 6L 300 bar holds slightly less.
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Bittenyakka, time to get people who think like that a few bucks for a can of harden up and a phone call to 1800-Boo-Hoo. Throwing a set on isn't that hard, and your lungs will thank you. Good heavens the cleaning takes a whole 10 minutes and most of that is letting the disinfectant do its think. Oh life is tough! :P
Ok i shall where do I buy it tho as i need a Bit :-D
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Colour me confused (and tired at 0145), but where did all the talk of 8 and 6L Cylinders come from?
As far as I knew, the CFS used two types of cylinder, the 9L 207 Bar FRP and the 6.8L 300Bar CFW.
SAMFS have their short and stubby 300Bar cylinder, which I am assuming must be the 6L?
I remember their being talk of issues with the fitting of the SAMFS cylinders and sets when they changed them over a few years back, can anyone shed any light on that? Are they still using the MSA Auer BD88/96 airsets?
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I can confrim they are still MSA sets on MFS as i see them at the Uni alarms.
wehere are the 6.8 L CFW that the CFS use or have used as i haven't seen any of them?
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I can confrim they are still MSA sets on MFS as i see them at the Uni alarms.
Where are the 6.8 L CFW that the CFS use or have used as I haven't seen any of them?
Thats because CFS dont have them as standard but there is a brigade that bought their own :wink:
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wehere are the 6.8 L CFW that the CFS use or have used as i haven't seen any of them?
Compartment fire behavior training and State Hazmat carry CFS issued ones. Some other brigades have also purchased them out of brigade funds (I believe Happy Valley have?).
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Guys,
I presumed Zippy was talking about the SAMFS 300 bar CFW cylinders.
Even so I did make a typo 8 should of been 6. Doesn't matter.
Another point to take is the concept of the first SABRE CENTURION entered into service 25 years ago and are still going strong. (NOT CFS SERVICE).
Yes we all agree updating and keeping up with improvements in CABA would be great, but this is with a cost.
Which that cost probably could be used better in buying new appliances for brigades which have 20 - 25 year appliances in their station.
The facts are to replace the backplates would not even add up to one brand new QAV, but is it really required? Probably not, if you have good operators which know how to adjust the back plate strap you should be OK.
One day we will get a different or new type of set. But not right now.
We also all agree if you can't handle the weight get on the filtered pump!!
This problem has come back from the training. Instructors are being to soft and are not working students as hard as they use to. I can remember quite clearly when I did my initial course the first night we were running and dragging casualties with the set to sort out who can handle it and can not.
I understand times have changed and PC is in. But I think this is a bad way of teaching such a course which provides personal protection.
Don't agree we should bring back to hard times like it use to, but at least make it harder to achieve the standard which is currently set.
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I thought State hazmat ones where 200bar 9L aliminium
note I have used them and have only had 200 bar
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Thats right,
9 litre 207 bar
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Which that cost probably could be used better in buying new appliances for brigades which have 20 - 25 year appliances in their station.
With the current quality of appliances we seem to be receiving, do you really think they will be in service in 20 years time?
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Which that cost probably could be used better in buying new appliances for brigades which have 20 - 25 year appliances in their station.
With the current quality of appliances we seem to be receiving, do you really think they will be in service in 20 years time?
Couldn't comment about that can only comment that I have a 23 year old appliance
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Its a fair call though.. The 23 year old appliances are out living the 5 year old ones.. (On a number of different levels)..
Says alot about things..