SA Firefighter
General Discussion => SA Firefighter General => Topic started by: jaff on June 30, 2009, 04:28:04 PM
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Darren or one of the other Adelaide fire boys can you let us know how you coped with todays weather event, paging out and comms wise?
Realistically, it was a small non event but you guys seemed swamped......and the powers that be tell us everything will be okay :wink: when and if we have a big one!. Well are you sure, me I am starting to think maybe sometimes... we maybe sometimes.....well you know......uummm ..... get buullshitted too.....or those rose coloured glasses have been doing the rounds again!
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jaff....i'm with you...listening in today from 1000....there were numerous times when calls to AF went unreplied, info missed...they were genuinely under the pump with their paging if stations wanted default pages sent......just a little scary considering it didnt generate more that more than a cpl hundred jobs, many of them low priority....
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ringing them by phone for everything except Mobilisation and Alarm upgrades, should be or "is" the standard practice is it not....
remembering the bulk of MFS's radio work is done on MFS Metro 150, 1 bloke on that radio all the time...and just 1 radio operator for Country Radio (8 radio channels). undoubtably the 5 others were busy with phones or other things...The only thing that can help things is when an operator is available to do "something else" like be the 3rd radio operator randomly...
Remember voice requesting....it puts your callsign onto a computer screen queue.
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I am hearing ya zipster and dont get me wrong, I am not blaming the operators! They in my opinion are set up for failure and on a not so out of the ordinary day like Tuesday were under the pump, but we keep hearing from CFS comms, that everything is just tickety boo :wink:. Just curious thats all!
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ringing them by phone for everything except Mobilisation and Alarm upgrades, should be or "is" the standard practice is it not....
remembering the bulk of MFS's radio work is done on MFS Metro 150, 1 bloke on that radio all the time...and just 1 radio operator for Country Radio (8 radio channels). undoubtably the 5 others were busy with phones or other things...The only thing that can help things is when an operator is available to do "something else" like be the 3rd radio operator randomly...
Remember voice requesting....it puts your callsign onto a computer screen queue.
Zippy....sorry common complaint today was that AF couldnt be contacted on the usual phone numbers to acknowledge pages, or to request default ones sent
Sorry, if that is the standard then why dont we just use telstra call centre and save the cost of a Communications Centre .....ringing in IS not how a professional response system is worked anywhere in the world.....if there is 1 operator for a piddly amount of TG150 calls....and 1 operator for everything else....then guess who is being shitcanned again in terms of the service we get. Was there truly only 5 operators to receive 000 calls and relieve for breaks etc today?
Today was forecast to be bad......we should have had a better service in place
Again.....not dissing individuals concerned....just the system
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the worst combination of things can happen on a day like today. just a single example:
All 7 phones ringing at once + a bankup of calls.
All those jobs paged out within a 10 minute block....imagine how many "non-000" phone calls will then flow into the phone system, let alone radio traffic which in itself is spread over roughly 10 radio channels.
Have to think about how much may go on in the background for a simple Private Alarm or Vehicle Accident...roughly at least 3+ phone calls, and say a gazzlion radio transmissions? :evil:
Yeah...the system is gay. Both the system that the adelaide fire operators use, and the system firefighters have to use.
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Yeah...the system is gay.
So something is ..........either fishy, or.........smells like shitte :-o
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just remember, there are 7 operational consoles plus the officer in comms
yesterday one metro [150 plus emerg channels] plus on country radio [8 TGs then 7 once SES SCC opens] and 5 call takers.
considering the number of jobs on the board i would think theyd be pretty busy with call taking [as pointed out general business/acks as well as emerg calls] and notifications.
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well some people might be being kidded but probably not many. I think it is widely known that adelaide fire simply won't cope if we have a properly busy day in summer. No fault of their own, as someone mentioned above, but it is set up to fail.
But what hope have we got when CFS HQ are advising brigades to ring 000 and ask for 'fire' to respond additional resources (Ops Planning newsletter Dec 2008) instead of ringing adelaide fire direct.
For my group I just try to ensure we have the procedures and methods in place to handle as much as possible ourselves. Is this improved service or progress? no way but what else can you do.
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I worked, all the calls were disptached, every console was manned, which doesn't normally happen, but we didn't have anyone away for a change, 000 calls were still banked up, which means your lower priority calls won't get through, GRN 150 was flat out, Country radio was flat out. All the call takers were flat out, and SES took an hour to open, so we had all the SES lines which are a priority line as well.
After some time pushing we have been allocated a 5th operator, but at the end of the day it was a busy period, everyone worked through, no breaks were taken until it slowed down later. So that's how it will operate on a busy day, nothing more we can do from our end. You just need to keep calling either on radio or phone, if it takes you 10 tries on the radio so be it, can tell you right now, you weren' being ignored on purpose. Bit hard to talk on 2 radios at once.
I think all things condsidered, it worked well, couldn't have worked any better with what we had at our disposal.
Thats all I will say :-)
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Interesting comments....yes the telephone lines were overloaded yesterday and people were ringing other numbers...and yes things will get better with integrated systems....BUT
* how many operators, telephone systems and associated costs do you want ?
Between SES & MFS ComCens you would have had 10 plus telephone operators working at any one time. Then, additional CommsOut operators were seperate in SES.
I personally would prefer the balanced approach to funding so that some money flows to better buildings, volunteer support, vehicles, preventative measures, etc rather than throw it all at comcens so that they can answer your telephone calls.
I am glad that local SES Units were contacting CFS Brigades for assistance during yesterday. Thanks to everyone for the co-ordinated effort and working together to help the community.
Hopefully the SES person makes a full recovery from his injuries.
Personal belief....do you honestly believe that any telephone system will cope if masses of people call at the same time ? I dont think the technology exists.
Anyway, pagers just gone off so I better respond. See ya.
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Just a question....did any CFS Regions open ComCens to assist busy Brigades yesterday and thus provide you an alternative for operations support ?
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Just a question....did any CFS Regions open ComCens to assist busy Brigades yesterday and thus provide you an alternative for operations support ?
Region One Headquarters + Radio Commmunication's = non-existant...
But i believe Region Two is a bit different??
Imagine this process...
GRN 124 - "Adelaide Fire, Hicks Flat Pumper.... Mobile incident 279 ...."
GRN 125 - **hicks flat moves to channel, listening only** (Gives any Arrival, Upgrade, Sitrep, Stop Messages to Region 1 HQ if no volunteer station is open)
Ding Dong Station is manned, listening on 125.
Ding Dong station contacts Region 1 HQ by Phone. Taking Communications for Incident 125.
GRN 125 - "All Appliances responding to Incident 279 #type, location#, Talkgroup 155 through Ding Dong Station"
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I worked, all the calls were disptached, every console was manned, which doesn't normally happen, but we didn't have anyone away for a change, 000 calls were still banked up, which means your lower priority calls won't get through, GRN 150 was flat out, Country radio was flat out. All the call takers were flat out, and SES took an hour to open, so we had all the SES lines which are a priority line as well.
After some time pushing we have been allocated a 5th operator, but at the end of the day it was a busy period, everyone worked through, no breaks were taken until it slowed down later. So that's how it will operate on a busy day, nothing more we can do from our end. You just need to keep calling either on radio or phone, if it takes you 10 tries on the radio so be it, can tell you right now, you weren' being ignored on purpose. Bit hard to talk on 2 radios at once.
I think all things condsidered, it worked well, couldn't have worked any better with what we had at our disposal.
Thats all I will say :-)
Darren, I have been at pains to point out, "I am not having a go" at the operators!
Just pointing out you guys were swamped/inundated in a very short period as the front moved through, this is too a small extent what could be expected on a bad fire day if 1 or 2 fires get up and running in the peri urban area and isnt now the time to gauge capacity and ask questions?
I hope the senior comms people are paying attention and reviewing procedures.
I promise to hug an operator next time I see one...................................maybe! :-D
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Congratulations to the MFS ComCen operator who very quickly answered the emergency GRN button calls yesterday.
From a volunteer, it was very reassuring to know they were answered quickly & profesionally when the centre is busy.
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Jaff, reading with interest what's coming out of the Black Saturday Inquest & this thread - both highlight the fact that the system can be overloaded.
400 plus jobs? Not a bad effort - Sydney/Newcastle 19000+, so I guess it really is scale!
The comcen answers to your questions were quite correct, prioritise & keep on calling! I'm not sure where you are heading with your recent threads, seems like you want major improvement (in fact a perfect world) & has been pointed out previously it may not be possible :wink:
Finally I too would like to express my best wishes & a speedy recovery to the person who was injured & a well done to all who were active yesterday.
cheers
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Jaff, reading with interest what's coming out of the Black Saturday Inquest & this thread - both highlight the fact that the system can be overloaded.
400 plus jobs? Not a bad effort - Sydney/Newcastle 19000+, so I guess it really is scale!
The comcen answers to your questions were quite correct, prioritise & keep on calling! I'm not sure where you are heading with your recent threads, seems like you want major improvement (in fact a perfect world) & has been pointed out previously it may not be possible :wink:
Finally I too would like to express my best wishes & a speedy recovery to the person who was injured & a well done to all who were active yesterday.
cheers
Victoria uses there Regional Operation Centre's when times like Febuary 7th occur. There's just no such backup plans here that i know of.....
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if we think about it logically....the response yesterday should have been no different to the response on the fireground....when u get busier than u can control....you sectorise. AF Comms needs to be able to be devolved to Region Ops Centres quickly (remember this WAS forecast - no excuses for no manning). and if needed, down to Groups to manage their own areas....Remember the span of 5 thing in AIMS......thats not some nerds theory...its actually research. This frees more people in MFS Coms to call take and dispatch...and leave the admin radio chatter (mobile, arrived, sandwiches needed etc to the other bases).
When the same happens in summer...its the only way we will survive.
The next question.....was the State Emergency Centre activated, if not why not?? What is the plan for answering 000 calls when 5 operators (such a ridiculous number for the circumstances)are swamped? Is there a state 000 overflow plan? Whats the plan for just a fraction of the 10,000 Triple 0 calls like were witnessed in Vic? Why dont we have a floor of somewhere with computer stuff and phones ready to hook into the network, a network, any network.....surely it cant be that hard....hell u could even have the filtered thing in Mumbai and it would help.
Wayne....more ammunition mate...I hope you're taking notes
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Jaff, I'm not sure where you are heading with your recent threads, seems like you want major improvement (in fact a perfect world) & has been pointed out previously it may not be possible :wink:
Yeh, Chook your right......we should settle for mediocrity, I am sure that a coroner would understand...........or maybe not! :-)
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The next question.....was the State Emergency Centre activated, ??
Yes it was, as it was today.
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From a base volunteer perspective....
* CFS & MFS liason officers were at SES State Operations Centre yesterday during the storm event.
* I did not hear the SA State Emergency Centre go active, but SAPOL (SEC co-ordinator) and SA Goverment would have been updated by SES SitReps via chain of command.
* 000 calls do auto failover to other comcens that are on the comms loop.
* SES State Operations Centre, SES Central Region & SES North Region Ops Centres manned. East & West REegion Duty Officers contacted often.
I agree with Chook's posting, this event was small compared to NSW or VIC. Big for SA, but not in an Australian context.
Also for SES, I believe Adelaide Fire comcen is a 'Call Receipt & Dispatch' service only. Not Operations Support or Resourcing. That is one reason for the SES State & Regional Operations Centres manned by volunteers & paid staff. CFS have a different system, so I cannot comment from that perspective.
Again, how much $$ do you want to throw at this risk compared to frontline equipment ? Would the coroner prefer to see more telephones or frontline volunteers to reduce response times ?
A room of computers might not sound much until they need to be connected to the comms loop for fast dispatch systems (radio, paging), maintained, operators trained (a lot of training), updated, managed, GRN upgraded to cope with extra traffic, information storage upgraded, reporting systems upgraded, etc, etc.
Re your comment on a different state or country handling comms....what is the outsourced company to do with the call after they have taken the information :? Dispatch the requested resource via SMS or email ??
It will be interesting to see what Victorian recommendations are for call receipt & dispatch when they are released.
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No Jaff I don't support mediocrity - far from it! However as Bajdas said"there is a plan", it also seemed to work. And I would have thought not being tasked to MVA's in a timely matter, responding to task with untrained/poorly trained crews, responding with less than the minimum crew numbers, responding with inappropriate/out of date/damaged equipment was more likely see you in front of a coroner! And is OHS (Stop take five) trg being delivered to the troops, is OHS covered off on the teamleaders course yet? These are the thing that you will be hung on, as Andrew said when there was an emergency it was handled promptly.
There is always a bit of confusion at the start of an event (its part of the forming part of team building). And there is no need to rush about, afterall it still takes time to get things organised (as you know :wink: )
So I just curious what the real agenda is here - more operators? more money? more embarrassment for the government/Safecom? Does anyone know has SA adopted the excellent NSW RFA system? I agree there is always room for improvement, but at least acknowledge that things have improved :-) cheers
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As someone has said Victoria have 3 regional call centre's,so should we also have one in a regional area???
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We do stuff all calls compared to Victoria and NSW. I don't think its worth it. Also the victorians run everything through VKN8/VICFIRE. Where as we are still back in the era of stations do comms after the truck books mobile.
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i can't be bothered arguing about how good we were or werent yesterday....but seriously if you guys think yesterday was a great example of how a quality CRD system works....then great, sleep soundly tonight
Yesterday was piffling on the level of activity that could be expected on a major shitfight day in summer in the URI......and it fell over with calls going unanswered. Whatever the reasons...thats not acceptable, whatever system we have
As for whoever asked what any third party company could do with information.....migrate it real time to any quality CRD system....its just 1s and 0s....and this is the 21st century,
Heres a thought.......take Fire and Rescue (and Medical for that matter) CRD away from all of the Agencies and privatise it....at least that way someone is accountable
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Thats what ESTA is in Victora, crashnddash....
Worthwhile dream of having a similar organisation here ey...
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agree Zip...not to say they do it well there....but they are much further advanced than us.
We are hamstrung to a system driven by one organisation for what they want...and whatever everyone else can get out of them is a lottery.
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As someone has said Victoria have 3 regional call centre's,so should we also have one in a regional area???
This kinda reminds me of back when SAAS had regional call centres before everything was centralised to Adelaide everytime an emergency call requiring CFS response went through any call centre a page would be sent out
SAAS: Respond ______ Station
CFSRES
Too bad we cant go back to the regional call centres now :-(
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Have people forgotten that they are currently buidling the CAD system for all agencies.....Of course they aren't going to spend more money on an out of date system that won't be used soon.
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of course...all hail SACAD....for thou art the saviour.....brought to you by the people who gave you, I mean charge you for.....the SAGRN..lolol :lol:
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There is that, but I have seen the trial version, shites all over what we have now.....we could always go back to the old fire phone system with the special button that activated the siren and bells, I remember that as a kid. I also remember Glen Osmond 441 responding to a house fire at mt barker, but hey, whats progress... :-P
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People knock SACAD concept, but having SAAS Comcen able to dispatch all resources to a road crash seems to be a huge advantage for example. Because all four comcens will be on the same database they will all see and dispatch from the same data.
Then if one ComCen is overloaded, then another ComCen can easily assist with processing the calls.
Not sure how each agency will handle Operations Support after dispatch has been completed though. Will wait and see what business plans and procedures each agency implement.
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i can't be bothered arguing about how good we were or werent yesterday....but seriously if you guys think yesterday was a great example of how a quality CRD system works....then great, sleep soundly tonight
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I agree the system failed in some respects. But I have seen it fail a lot worse previously processing less calls.
It will get better when processes and computer systems are refined. It will never be perfect and everyone needs to strive to do better.
Without change it would be boring volunteering in Operations... :-P (yeah it is boring sometimes...hee hee)
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So Zippy & Crash are you promoting the Vic model? The same one that is being criticised in the commission now? And you keep pointing to a Summer time "big one" - that may not be the incident that will cause the call/comm centre to fall over - think earthquake, tempest that sought of thing. And having sub comm cens located in rural/semi rural areas would have to be co-ordinated a lot better than the Vic model
Finally yeah we were all sad to see the demise of the local SAAS comcen, however its happened move on! The same thing is happening in every state, comms being centralised in the city, why? cost & control. As I said the system ain't perfect & there is always room for improvement - but there are much bigger issues. You can have a 21 century communications system, not much point when you have nothing to dispatch :wink:
For emergency help in floods and storms, call the SES on 132 500 :wink:
cheers
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Yeah i actually am....Because Victoria already use what we call SACAD pretty much ;) and we're praising SACAD arent we??
Im promoting it because its by far better than what we have now....how we can right now stand up to royal commissions now beats me!!!
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I think to a big degree, what we move forward with (SACAD is a given..........All hail SACAD) will be shaped too a degree by some findings in Victoria!
That being said, I think its a good thing, there is no point relearning lessons of the past and a lot of what went on and didnt go on that day, could be used too model our system!
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No Jaff I don't support mediocrity - far from it!
Just checking Chook................thought those damm Mexicans might of had their way with you! :-D
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No mate - just reflecting on some stuff I did about teamwork & change management(3 day leadership cse) & the fact that you can't have a successful team if everything is in the negative. And a wise person on this site (wouldn't know who they might be :wink: )gave me some very sage advice a while ago when I had a very black outlook on the emergency services in SA. So whilst I agree that things are not perfect & should be improved, people need to remember where we were (by the way things are not perfect here either - had to borrow a ute from council as ours wasn't allowed to be driven!). And with some other potential changes coming latter in the year in SA, it might not pay to be seen as the naysayers all of the time - if you know what I mean! And everyone is quite right - quietly accepting below standard performance isn't the way to go, starting fights over every conceivable subject isn't either (fight the important fights & the one you are guaranteed to win was what I was always told). Anyway mate take it easy cheers
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For emergency help in floods and storms, call the SES on 132 500 :wink:
cheers
actually in SA, please call 000 for emergencies, and reserve other numbers for non emergency functions
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So Zippy & Crash are you promoting the Vic model? The same one that is being criticised in the commission now? And you keep pointing to a Summer time "big one" - that may not be the incident that will cause the call/comm centre to fall over - think earthquake, tempest that sought of thing. And having sub comm cens located in rural/semi rural areas would have to be co-ordinated a lot better than the Vic model
Finally yeah we were all sad to see the demise of the local SAAS comcen, however its happened move on! The same thing is happening in every state, comms being centralised in the city, why? cost & control. As I said the system ain't perfect & there is always room for improvement - but there are much bigger issues. You can have a 21 century communications system, not much point when you have nothing to dispatch :wink:
For emergency help in floods and storms, call the SES on 132 500 :wink:
cheers
and why is it being criticised?? Chook......because there wasnt a sufficient capacity to deal with incoming 000 calls and farm out the jobs. Thats not saying the system is perfect (as i highlighted previously), just that it was under resourced on that day - although as has been heard already, no amount of resources would have coped on the one particular day. Our system couldnt cope with a piddling 200ish jobs from 0900-1100 on the day.
Until you get the jobs on the table, we have no hope of knowing what we deal with in any response to major incidents. As for SAAS Coms handling overflow 000 fire/rescue calls....good luck with that...lol, I'd be very surprised if you'd ever see that happen....and if it is put on the table, watch for the AEU to push for a big payrise for EOC staff (rightly so - down Boredy...lol).
As for the old just because it is done in every other state that makes it right thing......go read some overseas literature, there is plenty of examples of large overseas agencies (LAFD, CFD and NYFD) moving to County or Borough CRD Centres, to allow sectorising of their cities in the event of major incidents.... wow, but of course we know better, cant ever trust those overseas types.
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No Crash at what point did I say "can't trust the overseas types"?
And the 132500 number is the NATIONAL number for storm & flood emergencies (last time I checked SA was part of Australia) - why do you find that a problem?
If the population actually used the above number for that purpose then 000 would not over flow during storm events!
I didn't say decentralisation was a bad idea but it ain't happening in this country & have a look at the areas in the US (who do major emergency management so well), they have huge populations. If you decentralise CAD/COMMS how do you coordinate? how do you equip them? how do you fund them? Yes there needs to be improvements, but as I said previously there is a big Investigation currently going on over the border & have a feeling that when the recommendations come out of it that a lot of what we are talking about here will be examined by SAFECOM & the Chiefs (just like in every other state) to ensure that the same mistakes/problems are not repeated. And the last I heard SA was looking at the NSW RFA system (which is live online) for storm/flood/tempest events. This would also free up the comcen/dispatch system. So yes there are solutions, including getting rid of the filtered states in the first place so we can have one system & use regions rather than stupid artificial state borders for "sectorising".
cheers
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crashndash, I am beginning to think your associated with Unions supporting paid staff. If so, welcome to the world of change that is and could be happening.
Yes, I am annoyed that UFU sealed shut any opprotunites for others to participate in Adelaide Fire comcen. But that was done along while ago, so I am getting on with life.
If your bias is towards bigger and better paid staff comcens, then good luck. You might need it...... :evil:
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Victoria ESTA comcen's are pretty much multiagency comcen's....
According to my research (when i once considered goin for a job in esta), When you get hired you can start out as a call taker for one of the agencies,then get trained in higher tasks or in another agencies call taking...
So an employee at a comcen, can be a Fire, Police, Ambulance Call Taker (Phone), and a Fire Dispatcher (Radio). They could be everything...and purely do a specific role according to rosters. Then there are the multitasking gun's that can answer whatever comes up on there screen....
"State Emergency Communications Centres (SECC) are staffed by a team of approximately 400 emergency calltakers and dispatchers who operate 24/7. The total number of calls to ESTA in 2007/2008 was over 1.8 million."
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Think they were advertising a few weeks ago Zippy - so why didn't you apply?
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too much to finish sorting out at my current job still, and well just plain too lazy to add a level of stress encountered when moving interstate.
sooo, twiddling my thumbs till something happens in SA.... $53 million is more possible ;)
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crashndash, I am beginning to think your associated with Unions supporting paid staff. If so, welcome to the world of change that is and could be happening.
Yes, I am annoyed that UFU sealed shut any opprotunites for others to participate in Adelaide Fire comcen. But that was done along while ago, so I am getting on with life.
If your bias is towards bigger and better paid staff comcens, then good luck. You might need it...... :evil:
hahahahah Badjy.....I'm so far removed from that.....my desire is for a system that works....the current one is broke (yes, less broke than it was).... my concern is that one service owns the CRD process for Fire and Rescue by and large...and please dont tell me SES and CFS are equal partners in this process....cos they arent
If the system cant answer the phone when its bad....then its hardly worth defending it is it?
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crashndash, I am beginning to think your associated with Unions supporting paid staff. If so, welcome to the world of change that is and could be happening.
Yes, I am annoyed that UFU sealed shut any opprotunites for others to participate in Adelaide Fire comcen. But that was done along while ago, so I am getting on with life.
If your bias is towards bigger and better paid staff comcens, then good luck. You might need it...... :evil:
hahahahah Badjy.....I'm so far removed from that.....my desire is for a system that works....the current one is broke (yes, less broke than it was).... my concern is that one service owns the CRD process for Fire and Rescue by and large...and please dont tell me SES and CFS are equal partners in this process....cos they arent
If the system cant answer the phone when its bad....then its hardly worth defending it is it?
FULLY AGREE
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sooo, twiddling my thumbs till something happens in SA.... $53 million is more possible ;)
Then start the process to join MFS has a recruit. At the moment that is the only way you will become part of Adelaide Fire comcen because of the UFU agreement with the old Minister.
Maybe it will change in the future, I dont know..
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Fair enough Zippy - sometimes I wonder whether moving was really worth it(trouble is I've signed on with the devil now so I'm stuck :wink: ) However new responsibilities will mean I will be spending more time in SA - for now! And no won't be renewing my membership of the SA emergency services :-D
Yep its a big call & until the smoke clears (pardon the very poor pun), I would be keeping well away from the emergency services in Vic.
cheers
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Why on earth would we want to staff for the 1 in 30 year fire, and the odd storm :wink: Most times we have plenty of staff for the 70 or 80 calls we average. We have upgraded staffing levels twice since taking over CFS and SES.
Trust me, when I worked at CFS that was hardly a proper CRD centre, it was no better than having airsource and a radio in a brigade radio room. At least when we turn out an MFS response some sort of SOP is followed, the CFS respones vary so wildly, from 4 trucks for a house fire, to one truck, and we will get back to ya if its really something (it happened a few days ago...)
I think some of you are wanting this state to be more than it is, compared to Victoria and NSW we don't do anything, they would laugh at our call rates here.
As for it going private, hmmmm, good luck, maybe with a change of government, but with the clowns that are running the Liberal Party, can't see it happening any time soon ! :lol:
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ah balled my eyes out when you mentioned Liberals and Privatisation in the same sentence :)
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Why on earth would we want to staff for the 1 in 30 year fire, and the odd storm :wink: Most times we have plenty of staff for the 70 or 80 calls we average.
Trust me
Darren, there is NO question AF CRD is for the most part brilliant for as you say the 70 - 80 calls a day scenario. My doubts are how we cope with the short sharp high impact incidents, it seems unless I am missing something that groups need to have a more formalised default system in place for this scenario!
As has been previously mentioned the Victorian coroner, may influence any future modelling.
Trust me , the cheque is in your mouth :-D
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Ah now you may have nailed it Jaff! Storm/Flood events that are not occuring in Adelaide are not managed the same way as a normal day. Normally a Field HQ is setup (Renmark, Pinnaroo)etc. The tasks are handled by that HQ & the tasks are given out either by voice or radio (on an allocated TG) & yes AF does still pass on tasks but the local HQ deals them out (that would handle the brigades/units that can't attend e.g. default pages)as the HQ would know what resources it has & what is coming. The RFA system formalises this process even further, every task is documented & a "pink" handed to the responding crew. It has the task, address & other info on it - this helps to free's up the radio network.
Also this allows for multi agency crews to attend the task, with the right number of people & the right mix of skills & equipment. I understood Adelaide events can be managed the same way - once the HQ group becomes operational of course. Bare in mind RFA's are not used in SA - yet! This system works elsewhere as well, it ensures proper allocation of resources, proper prioritisation & enough relief crews to provide extended operations over days or weeks e.g QLD/NSW Flood/storm events. If you think about it similar to what crash was talking about. It is a pity that this system isn't used more often. cheers
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Ah now you may have nailed it Jaff! Storm/Flood events that are not occuring in Adelaide are not managed the same way as a normal day. Normally a Field HQ is setup (Renmark, Pinnaroo)etc. The tasks are handled by that HQ & the tasks are given out either by voice or radio (on an allocated TG) & yes AF does still pass on tasks but the local HQ deals them out (that would handle the brigades/units that can't attend e.g. default pages)as the HQ would know what resources it has & what is coming. The RFA system formalises this process even further, every task is documented & a "pink" handed to the responding crew. It has the task, address & other info on it - this helps to free's up the radio network.
Also this allows for multi agency crews to attend the task, with the right number of people & the right mix of skills & equipment. I understood Adelaide events can be managed the same way - once the HQ group becomes operational of course. Bare in mind RFA's are not used in SA - yet! This system works elsewhere as well, it ensures proper allocation of resources, proper prioritisation & enough relief crews to provide extended operations over days or weeks e.g QLD/NSW Flood/storm events. If you think about it similar to what crash was talking about. It is a pity that this system isn't used more often. cheers
errrr....isnt this the same system in different words that i mentioned earlier and u bagged me for?....sectorise the big stuff, handle it locally, when the flaps over, sent it back centrally
maybe i should have wrapped it in gladwrap and mounted it on a stop go stick
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Lets not get all wacky and let our minds drift to worst case scenario days...
Lets take a 'normal' 70-80 call day and make AF actually do the resource tracking job they're meant to do. None of this broadcasting SITREPS and urgent response upgrades into the ether, to random appliances or to some poor GO trying to run comms from his car. Let us actually be able to have a dedicated commcen to talk to, 24/7 (Be it AF/RHQ/Group Base/Station). Try using the old style system with poor old AF now and the old dear would fall flat on her face.
Its not the operators fault, but the implementation of the system. It sucks and is appalling to use even on the quietest of days.
Honest to god, people will die if it's not fixed - And it won't have to wait until the next blow up day.
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Not quite Crash - you also mentioned to set up regional comcens/cads etc (like the Americans do). But as far as sectorising command & control locally yep similar idea - in-fact it is already covered off in some of the training we already do & is already done (just no body makes a big song & dance about it). And it was how large operations were managed prior to the advent of personal PC & mobile phones.
So no you dont have to wrap anything in Glad wrap :wink:
You still exist numbers? Nice to hear from you again :-D
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If SACAD is going to be exactly same or similar to the ESTA setup in Victoria i sure hope they give us new pagers :-)
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If SACAD is going to be exactly same or similar to the ESTA setup in Victoria i sure hope they give us new pagers :-)
Wont Happen, they'll tweak the intergraph software to use CFSRES instead of @@ALERT and QD :P
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Even so Zippy new pagers would be good it doesnt matter if they tweak the intergraph software so we get CFSRES instead of Alert :wink:
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....Bare in mind RFA's are not used in SA - yet!....
Chook, the NSW RFA system was used has a basis for the current SES SOC system. Started about two or three years ago. I believe the process is very similar.
For example, the SA SES Request for Assistance database produces the tasking form that can be facsimiled or emailed if required.
In the case of last Tuesday, instead of all SES local HQ's in Adelaide opening, the Regional (eg Central & North) and State Operations centres handled the resource tracking, sitreps, etc. Central Region and State operations centres are in the one room now. MFS and CFS liason officers were present during part of the day.
Then later in the day some Adelaide SES LHQ's opened to handled localised suburbs of damage. This kept more people & trucks on the road.
More formalised AIIMS structure is the future when training completed.
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You still exist numbers? Nice to hear from you again :-D
Oh yes, still here... Just need to take a break from the asylum once in a while ;)
If SACAD is going to be exactly same or similar to the ESTA setup in Victoria i sure hope they give us new pagers :-)
Wont Happen, they'll tweak the intergraph software to use CFSRES instead of @@ALERT and QD :P
New pagers are being trialled... ;)
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so we've gotten down to the crux of all of the real world issues......the system is fine....but we need a pager that says one thing...not another....cool, I'll be able to sleep easy tonight then
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New pagers are being trialled... Wink
Cool, ill go get a cup of tea from Argentina by foot...
Wonder if they'll stop my boss asking me "is that some 80's galactica music on ya phone?"
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So you are using a RFA type system? - about time, as for AIIMS it is taking too long to implement. Mate I have heard about AIIMS type structures within SES for ages (remember I've only been gone less than 12 months) & the Request for assistance stuff may have been used by HQ but not at any of the events I was associated with (not in a formal way anyway). The trouble is everything is taking too long - for example I notice that a swift water rescue team has been developed - marvelous! We have it here to - difference is the course is available to all who have flood boats & are fit!
Eventhough I don't believe in throwing heaps of money & technology at every conceivable problem, there are some very good simple systems about the place that SESSA & SA in general could adopt (without having to reverse engineer/re-invent). It shouldn't be too hard to use an online system, that can generate RFA's locally & resource track, task track & monitor crews from any LHQ in the state. Afterall we were almost there already :wink: (saw some pretty cool resource/ task tracking on one of the tasks wew were on a while ago!)
Anyway mate keep up the good work - see ya :-)
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New pagers are being trialled...
I am sooo jealous of the brigade or brigades who get to trail these new pagers :-P before the roll out of these new pagers begins
Wonder if they'll stop my boss asking me "is that some 80's galactica music on ya phone?"
:roll: It cant be any worse than my team leader at work picking on me for having Boys From The Bush as my ringtone :roll:
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New pagers are being trialled... ;)
Hope its nothing like the Horse trials they have in the parklands, 5 or 6 years they've been tried now, and they still havent found the barstards guilty!
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I am sooo jealous of the brigade or brigades who get to trail these new pagers
Geezus Robert, thought you would want a new kite, before a new pager
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Hmmm - yes Numbers I see what you mean :-)
Sooo are these new pagers going to have a tracking device?
Thought it may be handy for resource tracking etc :wink:
Or even better they could transmit subliminal messages - you know along the lines of"the government is great! everything is peachy!, all hail SAFECOM!!!".
Sorry Robert - just not sure how new pagers will fix the issues discussed in this thread, you are actually lucky to have the ones you do (or any at all!).
Anyhow - time to put the evil twin away & move on with some sensible stuff :-D
(hope you get the new pagers soon Robert - without the Spook mods of course)
cheers have a good one :wink:
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If we compare the new GRN radios to a new Pager...will the pagers also be mobile phones? :P
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yes....but connected to Vodaphone so they only work within 5 kms of the GPO
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Hope the new pagers are not the same size as CFA one's, way too big and bulky
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bring back the tone only pager!!!
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yes....but connected to Vodaphone so they only work within 5 kms of the GPO
Dont remind me of my phone's shitness....my nearest 2 local towers for home were down or faulty for about 2 weeks in May/June.
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Ahhh the joys of being apart of Optus i get signal everywhere :-D
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Ahhh the joys of being apart of Optus i get signal everywhere :-D
They are refered to as DRoptus for a reason Robert.... :roll: