SA Firefighter
General Discussion => SA Firefighter General => Topic started by: David on December 28, 2007, 06:41:16 PM
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Can someone in the know please answer a question thats been a hot topic in our brigade over the last couple of weeks. If our 34 attends a call, eg grass fire and logs into Adelaide fire that its attending does that put our 24P off line as well, or do Adelaide Fire still recognise 24P as being an available resource?
Cheers
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They probably dont know you've got a 24P ? :-D
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Can someone in the know please answer a question thats been a hot topic in our brigade over the last couple of weeks. If our 34 attends a call, eg grass fire and logs into Adelaide fire that its attending does that put our 24P off line as well, or do Adelaide Fire still recognise 24P as being an available resource?
Cheers
The answer is NO, MFS will continue to page your brigade for incidents unless you default,ie dont acknowledge the page within the allowed time frame 4 minutes if EMA, and 6 minutes rural.
Just because you have mobiled one appliance doesnt restrict your brigade from getting further calls. :wink:
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Simply if your brigades ran out of appliances...Default. They dont specifically page any appliances just Brigades till they dont have any further resources.
Dont Forget, the way to call them up on regional channel is:
Adelaide Fire, this is *BRIGADE NAME* 34 responding Incident *NUMBER* over
after all they only do Call Reciept and Dispatch...pretty much no resource tracking at all.
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if your appliances are going to be tied up for a while at an incident, you can always ring adelaide fire and book your brigade offline. otherwise as safirey said, theyll continue to page you.
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"Adelaide Fire, this is "insert brigade name" 34 responding Incident 43(number) over"
Zippy if you could train every MFS, CFS & SES member to approach the radio in this way I'll be very happy. Getting the incident number first makes a huge difference when it's busy.
after all they only do Call Reciept and Dispatch...pretty much no resource tracking at all.
Actually we do use crimson for resource tracking. Nearly every incident related appliance movement given to us is put in Crimson. We don't for SES but definitely CFS and any non MDT/MCT MFS vehicles responding, usually Commanders, FCI or Safety Officers.
We don't require arrival messages or sitreps unless a station isn't open, in which case we'll put the info in crimson. What we definitely don't want to hear is 'returned to station' and other non incident related stuff.
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Zippy if you could train every MFS, CFS & SES member to approach the radio in this way I'll be very happy. Getting the incident number first makes a huge difference when it's busy.
nah mate i dont want THAT huger task on my hands....lol
A Lot of operational update material doesn't seem to sink into peoples minds and old habits seem to be the problem. I am 50/50 sure there could still be brigades out there, who dont even know who Adelaide Fire is :|
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Comms when I phone in to accept the job, we normally quote the incident number on the pager message (depends how late at night it is & how awake I am :wink:).
The reason we were telling you guys when a task is complete, is some times other units were being responded instead of us and we assumed that you guys thought we were fully committed.
However if you don't want us to continue this practice we will (we have been told not to tell you when we are closing down anyway).
However we will cease this practice immediately, if you guys wish.
Keep up the good work - cheers
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The reason we don't need to know when you've returned to station is it changes nothing as far as turnouts go. We'll put jobs on your pagers the same way whether your tucked up in bed or already at a job.
If you're already committed you can decide whether you can respond or need to default. Also helps if what sounds like separate incidents turn out to be the same or related.
Stating who you are and an incident number really helps. Sounds proffesional too. :-D
Maybe I should stop using 'we' as I'm not posting on behalf of everyone up here...
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thats alright mate - we understand :wink:
cheers
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If only someone could teach Region 6 the correct procedure on radio :roll:
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Chain Of command information "brickwalls" occuring??
HQ(planning and comms) > R6HQ > Group officers > Brigade Captains > Brigade Members.
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That doesn't sound very politically correct :wink:
Should be like us - very flat structure :-D
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Chain Of command information "brickwalls" occuring??
HQ(planning and comms) > R6HQ > Group officers > Brigade Captains > Brigade Members.
What is chain of command?
Not sure it exists around here :x
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Thanks for all the replies, it's nice to know I was correct, have to see if I can get an ale out of this now. :lol:
[/quote]We don't require arrival messages or sitreps unless a station isn't open, in which case we'll put the info in crimson. What we definitely don't want to hear is 'returned to station' and other non incident related stuff.
Comms, Understand the first part, however as to a returned to station message this directive was given to the brigade about 3 months ago by the captain, I'll have to investigate where he got it from and let you know.
Chain Of command information "brickwalls" occuring??
HQ(planning and comms) > R6HQ > Group officers > Brigade Captains > Brigade Members.
Just watch out for the "chinese whispers" game. :evil:
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Chinese Whisper's would be avoided if all directives were sent in PDF format directly to CFS Firefighters. :evil: :-P
HQ <> R-HQ <> Group officers <> Captains - Consultation.
HQ > every member of CFS via Email or Brigade Captains - Delivery.
thoughts??
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Ah the big problem you have there is interpretation - however its a good idea.
This happens in our service now - all directives that apply to units are sent to the unit manager (brigade captain :wink:which I think you already know) & deputy by email. However it is then up to those individuals to pass them on to the troops. Now I do (well I hope I do :-D), however I have heard of some who don't :-(.
For a lot of people they wouldn't be interested, sadly thats the nature of the beast.
As I have told the guys time and again "if its not in writing it doesn't exist".
I also insist that any direction given to my guys goes thru my deputy or myself e.g request to help out at the field days etc. That is plain courtesy!
As you are proberly aware, SES units tend to function differently to CFS brigades; we don't have a group structure sitting above us :-D.
And there is only us/region/state HQ, mind you there is a lot of stuff that goes on we don't hear about :-(. So yep great idea, if managed correctly.
cheers
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Being worked on I hear & hopefully a multiple delivery method system will be available during 2008. This will cover the volunteers that meet twice a year & do not have internet, to the staff/volunteers who want the information yesterday.
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Group Structure in the CFS works in the Administration and Financial parts, while i dont think so in the Operational Response...simply because of the word u presented 'interpretation'.
Having Group Officers and Deputy Group Officer in the system is fine, it works for Incident Command...but its the Response procedures that are kinda obsurd. Ideally it should be the decision of Adelaide fire of who goes to incidents based on location of it. Also applying upgrades of alarm.
eg. first alarm, 2 closest brigades, 2nd alarm next set of closest brigades, and so on.
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Ah Andrew you are still with us? :-D.
I hope its not email, fax, phonecall, SMS, meeting & smoke signal stuff we were doing in 07 :evil: Oh and I forgot letters as well :wink:
By the time you read it all, it changes!
The easy way to find out if the info is getting thru is audit the units. It becomes very obvious when for example training a few questions are asked & there are blank looks.
A simple solution is to send out the manuals we were promised with the current amendments, run some information sessions relevant to the target group i.e you don't want everyone sitting in on a finance update - boring :-D.
And then check with the target audience that the important stuff has sunk in.
Then at a later time, audit the units & if issues are found i.e unit/people are ignoring the instruction - take action!
And this applies at all levels, not just units. It is very hard to be professional, when the instructions seem to be written in the dust on the appliance shed floor! Or worse that individuals & Units can continually ignore instructions & nothing happens :x.
Well Andrew I think I have said enough :wink:
cheers
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Have to disagree there Zippy....
Under current conditions, with the information that Adelaide Fire doesn't have, relying on them to turn out the nearest & most appropriate resources is not a good thing....there are many instance of the wrong brigades being responded, or a brigade not being responded when they should have been - all based on the info (or lack thereof) at Adelaide Fire. Until that situation is remedied, who to respond and when should not be the sole domain of Adelaide fire.
Upgrades of Alarms should not be the sole domain of Adelaide Fire either. There should be (and there is, in some areas a preplan for things) like fire ban days, when instead of one or two brigades being responded to a grassfire, three or four are sent instead - but currently, as I understand it, that data is not complete for all areas. So, the next best thing is local knowledge - and that means Group Duty Officers / Captains having some input
Pip
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Lets send Adelaide Fire some new years resolutions :-D
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They dont specifically page any appliances just Brigades till they dont have any further resources.
This is the case for most brigades, however in some circumstances specific appliances ARE specified on the pager. (Being Tankers and Hazmat appliances).
If your brigade has a tanker, and you get responded with a 42 suffix instead of 00 or 19, then you should respond your tanker, not your 24. :)
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yeh you are right, ...but hey how many poeple in rural south australia would remember that...i think they would use common sense to deploy tankers and hazmat appliances to appropriate jobs.
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yeh you are right, ...but hey how many poeple in rural south australia would remember that...i think they would use common sense to deploy tankers and hazmat appliances to appropriate jobs.
Not if they don't know what resources are already mobile, it makes perfect sense to respond a 24/34 to a grassfire if you don't know that the tanker in the next group is offline... ;)
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such a painful thing to think about...lol...if only it was so much simplier.
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It can't get much simpler.
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"i think they would use common sense to deploy tankers and hazmat appliances to appropriate jobs."
Trouble with common sense - its just no that common :-D.
cheers
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"i think they would use common sense to deploy tankers and hazmat appliances to appropriate jobs."
Trouble with common sense - its just no that common :-D.
cheers
It is MFS comms we are talking about after all. :-)