SA Firefighter
General Discussion => Fire Fighter Training => Topic started by: Zippy on August 18, 2009, 12:21:04 PM
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Has anyone had any marvelous Training nights/ideas that manages to get all involved in the past few years??? Let us all know your stories.
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anyone? :evil:
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Beer n BBQ.....oh oh and just for "training" flick the dead man zone DVD in the player :wink:
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gahhh, :roll:....forum has not one ounce of goodness for training...im going on a holiday...
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Been too busy planning training to read the forum!!!
We spend some time on hose drill - in all sorts of scenarios.
I get them to work on ensuring they can bowl out all sizes of hose, couple lengths, get water flowing, and then make up (using our nifty "Peter Green" hose winder handles!!)
We give them scenarios, to get them to think out the best way of doing things.
EG, they have to couple together up to 5 lengths of hose, to reach the target, but have fences to get over / under. The crews then have to work out the best way of getting to the target, and work out what works, what doesn't.
Also uses pump operators.
While the exercise might sound a bit basic,it ensures that all crew members are very efficient at getting all types of hose deployed.
Pip
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Has the brigade done a skills audit of its members ?
How does this compare to the SFEC or what you would expect the crews to do at a normal incident for your area ?
With the gaps identified between normal response type and skill set, aim to fix the issue in 3 months.
A training idea is to have an incident where the normal chain of command is disrupted (normal team leader injured) and the team needs to reform to achieve the goal (eg will someone naturally step forward to be the new team leader or will they just look at each other like a head-less-chook).
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Back from my holiday... lol
Badjas & Pipster, great ideas there! ...brb i gotta work ;) watch this space.
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Pip,
Can you let me know more about your '"Peter Green" hose winder handles'? (or pics)
cheers
COBB
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We have handles that you slide under the tray on the truck, and is capable of rolling 25, 38 & 64 mm hoses on the same handle.
It means people can stand up while roll up hoses, rather than rolling them on the ground, and means you don't end up with leaves / dirt etc on the hose
It takes a little bit of practice, but once you get the hang of it, we can roll hoses up far quicker (and far more comfortably) than the traditional method.
The handle was designed / built by one of our members (Peter Green) and they sell for about $150 per handle (all stainless steel).
Our brigade will NOT go back to the old way of rolling!
I have attached some pics.
Pip
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Thanks Pip,
Definitely looks worth investigating.
regards
COBB
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Woulda thought its Standard Stowage by now ;)
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Not standard stowage, but a few versions of them getting around now. One downside to them is it takes three persons to roll a hose without damaging couplings, versus a 2 person dutch roll.
I'd still roll 38s and 64s the old school way, but it sure makes 25mm a lot easier to roll up.
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ahhhh Alex, lets never progress and be open to change, shall we....thats a good chap, and besides, next big one, we always have the stock of canvas beaters in the back of the shed.
These things are a great idea. Contrary to the nay-sayers of doom, one (yes thats right....one) person can roll up a hose using them quite simply if they have big fireman muscles and dont need two wimpy chicken arms to turn the handle. Couplings are made of hard stuff and despite popular opinion do not become warped, buckled or bent by being dragged very slowly along the ground (even bitumen) as u roll up (even when the afore-mentioned big fireman muscles are on scene)
Of course Pip, i'm assuming your brigade still trains to roll them the old fashioned way, for strike teams or cross manning purposes....or even just to remind them to never lose the handle :wink:
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Only train the old way for the newbies......!
A crew of 6 can roll a bunch of hoses on the handles, far quicker than the same number of crew trying to roll them on the ground....
There are a few tips & tricks we have learnt, which makes rolling hoses even easier....a guide does come with the handles... :-D
Pip
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ahhhh Alex, lets never progress and be open to change, shall we....thats a good chap, and besides, next big one, we always have the stock of canvas beaters in the back of the shed.
What change? These arent exaclty breaking technology. We have them in the brigade/group and they get used quite a bit mate, we have carried one on each truck [a differant version though] for at least ten years now.
Your comment re; damaging couplings is way off mate. Anyone worth there filtered knows dragging couplings, no matter how "slowly" across the fireground is no good for them. Doesn't take much to damage barway threads [which most of the state is still using??] or others for that matter, and fills them up with snot.
Not putting the hose winder down, but to be perfectly honest, anyone that uses them will agree it is a three person operation. 1 to wind, 1 to feed and 1 to mind couplings...
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Doesn't take much to damage barway threads [which most of the state is still using??] or others for that matter, and fills them up with snot.
About time to get with the AFAC Storz/Wajax Standard?? ;)
Just need to carry on each group appliance 2x SAFB Male to Storz, 2x SAFB Female to Storz, 2x SAFB Female to Wajax.
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my brigade bought one of these 'peter green' winders per appliance about a year ago, best thing since sliced bread in our opinion.
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Interesting...
http://www.ufuvic.asn.au/common_couplings_paper_1.pdf is the latest AFAC position as of May 2008
Document (justifiably IMHO) assassinates Stortz for small diameter hoses, and
totally igores the existence of any couplings other than Stortz, Forestry & BIC.
Ever.
So it's now Forestry for bushfire 25 & 38mm
Stortz for larger & for suction.
What's odd is that I had a prior AFAC document, 2005-ish vintage which stated
that while Forestry was the preferred small-diameter rural coupling, it wasn't
suited to high-pressure lines (>1200KPA from fuzzy memory). It stated Barway
was the AFAC preferred standard coupling for these. Wonder what changed their
minds about HP couplings?
cheers
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Most of the state has Barway fittings? In SA? Sorry Alex, but there are very few Barway fittings in SA.
However, back to your earlier point - you are right, the best way to roll up 64 & 38 on the hose winder handle is using three people. We don't generally drag our London couplings along the ground....
As for 25mm, with Forestry couplings, we find it better to allow the couplings to drag along the ground.....
But, even using the three people to roll hoses, it is quicker, and far more comfortable than rolling the same number of hoses the old fashioned way!!
Pip
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I believe we are running barway fittings on our 25mm... ive never really been 100% on thread names. Perhaps time we caught up when it comes to those then as they damage easily.
What is the standard? We are running those, DEH are using wajax i believe??? Every time i go to a fire out of district we seem to come across a differant coupling type....
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Doesn't take much to damage barway threads [which most of the state is still using??] or others for that matter, and fills them up with snot.
About time to get with the AFAC Storz/Wajax Standard?? ;)
Just need to carry on each group appliance 2x SAFB Male to Storz, 2x SAFB Female to Storz, 2x SAFB Female to Wajax.
Water Delivery
25mm Wajax
38mm Wajax (odd, but i believe it works great for urban use too)
64mm Storz
Water Collection
64mm Storz
100mm Storz
150mm Storz
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I believe MFS might have had Barway on their 25 mm hoses, but that's about the only service in SA that was/ is? using Barway.
In the early days, when 25 mm was first introduced, there was no standard for coupling, so Groups got what they thought would work best for them. I went to a fire where brigades from three adjoining groups each had a different coupling.
BSP was fairly common in the early days, Wajax (now called Forestry couplings, as Wajax is a brand name, not a coupling type) was also commonly. There were at least two others that I can't think of the name of........
Anyway, Forestry couplings are the standard now for 25 mm....but it was a 20 year plan to change over all couplings to a standard Australia wide....might be about 18 years to go before we are all the same!!
Pip
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I believe MFS might have had Barway on their 25 mm hoses, but that's about the only service in SA that was/ is? using Barway.
Oh well... at least we've got someone to play with then...
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Has anyone had any marvelous Training nights/ideas that manages to get all involved in the past few years??? Let us all know your stories.
Have a callout happen at the same time as training. Its amazing how many people who are usually busy in front of the idiot actually turn up
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Had a good training night a few weeks ago...got us thinking. The BTO filled a floating collar dam about 40 metres from the appliance, without moving it and only using the standard stowage on the appliance we had to draft from it.
After a bit of discussion and planning we used a 30 meter length of side line connected to a wajax/forestry to london round adaptor which was connected to a dividing breach with a rolled 64mm hose blocking the female end of the dividing breach. The other male end of the dividing breach we connected a couple of lengths of hard suction hose which we attached to the appliance.
We backflushed the hoses to help with priming and it worked really well. Good for getting water out of a flooded house for example :-)
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Well have to admit it was do your 3 monthly BA wear and play soccer while your doing it with a dash of basketball while your at it...great for fitness. :-D
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Well have to admit it was do your 3 monthly BA wear and play soccer while your doing it with a dash of basketball while your at it...great for fitness. :-D
It would take a small forest of paper to deal with the OH&S on that one!
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PFFT.
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A nasty little exercise which gives everyone a bit of exercise, and can be run by 2 or 3 people with minimal planning or notice - maybe just a couple of phone calls to get permission to access property.
Take 2 rolls of red/white marking tape to a random bush fire risk location.
Walk them out fully from a common "ignition point", about 20 degrees apart.
These are your fire "edges".
"Respond" the brigade.
On arrival, the two tape-holders start walking, towing the tape.
Steadily in grass-land, more slowly in scrub, depending upon the conditions you want to simulate.
Make sure there are fences en-route. :evil:
Also structures which may need to be defended.
Gives everyone a work-out,
- IC who has to plan, request, assign & re-prioritise resources to achieve RECeo,
- crew leaders who have to figure out how best to use their appliance & people
- hose-draggers who need to keep adding lengths fast enough to run down the "head".
Almost infinite variations possible.
If it starts looking too easy, chuck in a spot fire, or have a pump or BWC break-down, or a blown hose, or a wind change, etc. :evil:
Can be run several weeks running without losing interest, rotating people through the various roles, especially leadership of crews & IC.
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Sounds like a fun exercise.
We did something sort of along those lines, with water soccer.
Put traffic cones around in a circle, and two appliances parked next to each other on the edge of the circle. With 2 x crews of at least 3, and up to as many as you like, they have to weave the soccer ball in and out of the cones, all the way around the circle, using the hose.
Using lay flat hose, part way around, you need to add a length. Another added rule is that only the branch operator and the back up are allowed inside the circle, and only the first part of the hose is allowed inside the circle - the rest must remain outside the circle, along with the rest of the crew.
Both crews start from the same location, and go in opposite directions. The first team back, who doesn't break the rules, wins!!
Water soccer is a great exercise on hot training nights!!
Pip
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We did something similar to that too Pip but from the crew deck on the trucks and on a hill. The idea was to push the ball up the hill and back down keeping it under control at all times, with one truck either side. Great for team work, communications, hose skills and driver training all in one. But yes much better done on a warm night.