SA Firefighter
General Discussion => Country Fire Service => Topic started by: BundyBear on September 16, 2009, 01:43:38 AM
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A little birdy told me CFS infrastructure and logistics department has come out with another cracker. 14 pumpers and they are based on Canter size applainces. God help us if this is a fact!
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they could at least use a 2 Wheel Drive Chassis....end up being a modern 12... not too bad, but water & respect lacking..
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ahh Boys....lets be a little lateral about things for a second....
Most Mets trucks carry around 1400l of wet stuff....so strictly they are 12's....so lets not be closed to it.
If its an affordable way of getting a decent pump that can relay to other working trucks from mains or boost from a static supply or mains for those brigades who have low call numbers but higher risks....then there may be some merit to it. The Canter is just the transport mechanism...you dont need a $400,000 appliance just to propell a pump around the Sticks. So long as the build is good, and they are fit for purpose and cheap enough to warrant the fitout....then I reckon its not a bad compromise for SOME Brigades that would otherwise be left with a dakka dakka rural chaffcutter.
A 2000GPM pump in your Engine Room at a build price of less than $150,000?....we should be able to achieve that reasonably easily ....I'd line up for one, bring them on.
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Agree!!!! Great way to put the right sized pump into stations that need them without the extra expense of a full sized truck! Could be a good move!
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yeah you can't argue if it meets the specs!
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If its up to spec and can carry a full RCR/Urban stowgae we will take one :-D
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Be a good small town pumper, eg a brigade that has a 34P a Hazmat vehicle and needs a decent pumper. Clearly the 34P's aren't up to it.
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Belair 14 with a bigger pump...?
I know the stowage could potentially be a problem but I think they could be a functioning appliance for SACFS, I certainly wouldn't discount the idea until you see the product.
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We still have three of these in the current fleet - Upper Sturt, Stirling & Aldgate
I think it is a good idea to look at different appliance build & designs - although CFS HQ get bagged when they don't look at new vehicles & designs, and get bagged if they do!!!
If it gets trialled, and it works well, then we can end up with a number of useful appliances in the fleet. If it turns out to be a lemon, we don't end up with a fleet of them!!
Pip
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I think it sounds very sensible. Pumper really only requires a small quantity of water on board to act as a buffer until a hydrant is sunk and whilst relaying.
Doesn't matter how much water you have on board, if there is no reticulated supply you aint gonna pump nufin, well not for very long anyway.
Look at the filtered that broke loose at Kilburn due to lack of water. All those $400K trucks with all the gear and 1800 litres of water would have only lasted a few seconds longer than a Canter with a 2 stage pump, 4in-4out plumbing, 10 lengths of 64, 1000 litres of water and a crew of 5 on board. Probably get two (or more?) pumpers for the price of one red truck!
We all know in CFS, it's about value for money. Sounds like a great way of getting effective resources to where they are needed without a 'CFA' budget.
Call em 12P's
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I guess the other concept would be to put a rosenbauer NH30 onto the back of a 34p to see how that going with 4 in 4 out...
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I guess the other concept would be to put a rosenbauer NH30 onto the back of a 34p to see how that going with 4 in 4 out...
James, my brigade would be happy to take something like that. A 34P with at least a 750GPM PTO pump would be ok for us, then we still have a second 4wd for rural stuff and an appliance that can actually have a reasonable crack at boosting should we need it.
I'm not sure if there is some physical limitation or just that no one has pushed it but a few of those trucks around the bigger towns and EMA brigades would be great. That is the urban interface vehicle that has long been talked about.
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A CFS QAV vehicle was on display at the showgrounds.
I did not get a close look at it
Is this the concept vehicle you are talking about or something different ?
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A CFS QAV vehicle was on display at the showgrounds.
I did not get a close look at it
Is this the concept vehicle you are talking about or something different ?
a QAV is good for lil rubbish fires.
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Different appliance...QAV (or QRV!) is designed to carry small amounts of water (that one at the show was 550 litres of water) with a small pump, designed solely for rural fires.
The mini pumper being discussed is more aimed for urban type applications, where mains water is available, and where a large pump is required, due to urban type risks.....
Pip
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I can't work out why they can't put the NH30 on the 34P, it must be something to do with the 4x4 side of things, as our Pumper has the same engine and a 7 speed box instead of 6, but otherwise similar thing.
But yeah, a canter with a decent pump would be ideal, and not a 500 gpm thing, at least 750 gpm 4 in 4 out.
We will see what they come up with, could possibly be that CFA small town pumper ?
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in my haste to be a nice guy for a change and not crucify the CFS Head Shed....of course we are assuming that the power out of a canter is sufficient for a "decent" pump.....might well be a limiting factor, although for many of the towns these would suit, a 500GPM pump would be sufficient I guess.
I doubt the lil Mittsy would have the herbs to cope with a 1000GPM real mans pump in a 4 in and out array.....but...it still has a place, plenty of lil towns would kill for a 500GPM baby-pumper
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I guess the other concept would be to put a rosenbauer NH30 onto the back of a 34p to see how that going with 4 in 4 out...
James, my brigade would be happy to take something like that. A 34P with at least a 750GPM PTO pump would be ok for us, then we still have a second 4wd for rural stuff and an appliance that can actually have a reasonable crack at boosting should we need it.
I'm not sure if there is some physical limitation or just that no one has pushed it but a few of those trucks around the bigger towns and EMA brigades would be great. That is the urban interface vehicle that has long been talked about.
I agree with you Matt, mind you at the moment our brigade would be very happy with a stock standard 34P, but a 750gpm version of the 34P would be great for us and still keep the extra rural capability we would need in our area.
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in my haste to be a nice guy for a change
Going by your previous posts its more of an anomaly.......I'm sure normal transmission will resume reaalll soon! :-D
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If the 500 GPM had 4 in 4 out, 2 stage pump, with decent plumbing, then you might have a winner, but in the current 34P configuration it will never work well.
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just to refresh me the current 34p is 500gpm? and FDNY is 2000 or 4000? and mfs is 1000?
i think the idea is good i just want to see some blueprints or the finished thing.
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All new FDNY engines are 2000 GPM. The older engines are 1000 GPM, there are a few 2000 GPM high pressure engines for boosting highrise buildings. They are single stage but they don't use HP lines, so high pressure isn't so important.
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yeah i guess using at least a 70mm hose fixes that problem.
is there a mid mount NH30that we could put on a 34p and remove the crew deck ? that would work really well for and urban ish truck for lots of brigades?
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http://www.cfaconnect.net.au/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=viewcategory&catid=516&Itemid=11
This is the CFA small pumper, I am wondering if this is what they are talking about, trying to find some specs on it.
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Thanks for that was just interested to see what response I got.
The positives everyone came up with was a decent size pump and recognising a dedicated pumpers does not require a lot of water (but if it can handle it why not!) if working on the urban fringe or large rural township.
Can I share with everyone now don't let your brigade take on one of these small pumpers as if they are on a chassis such as a Mitsubishi Canter or a like it won't have the guts to pull the skin off a rice pudding.
The appliance will be grossly under powered with all the necessary urban kit and then if you've got to carry rescue gear or hazmat it will be worse. Plus they are not real roomy especially wearing PBI Gold.
I know this from experience due to being at a brigade that suffered with this sort of concept appliance a few years back on the urban fringe. I understand CFS has budget constraits like all businesses but be warned. A 34P would be a better option even though the storage on them is a pig of an idea.
I think Burnside has set the bar realistically for a pumper and why should we as firefighters that are unpaid except sub standard equipment to complete the task.
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Of course, it would be even cheaper again to mount the big pump on a trailer.
To be towed behind the Hyundai van of course...
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We push push push, but we don't have several hundred thousand in our account, so we can only push so far.
This isn't the worst idea, but needs to be looked at very carefully, and SHOULD NOT be seen as a one size fits all truck, NOT a hazmat truck, NOT an RCR truck, just a jump in and go to the fire vehicle. Hose, BA, and a decent pump.
I would hope brigades won't accept this to do the jobs of a full size rescue/hazmat pumper.
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We push push push, but we don't have several hundred thousand in our account, so we can only push so far.
This isn't the worst idea, but needs to be looked at very carefully, and SHOULD NOT be seen as a one size fits all truck, NOT a hazmat truck, NOT an RCR truck, just a jump in and go to the fire vehicle. Hose, BA, and a decent pump.
I would hope brigades won't accept this to do the jobs of a full size rescue/hazmat pumper.
Wait till you have to operate one of these small appliances at a reasonably busy brigade not good mate!
I'd like to see one pumper fit all obviously it would probably fail with carrying HAZMAT gear but why not have a good general pumper design with decent stowage, hoses, pump and room for rescue gear. Possibly you could have a reduced HAZMAT storage on there for the HAZMAT brigades instead of the rescue gear.
What ever happened to having a standardized fleet like other fire services?
If we build the same thing for all brigades that require pumpers would not that make sense?
The wheel just seems to spin around not long ago we tried these small pumpers and years before that some 15+ years ago we had rescue vans. Infrastructure and Logistics in CFS HQ are not coming up with any innovations they are just going in circles.
Give me a good reason for not building decent size pumpers?
I'm not having a go I'm just throwing it out there!
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The other issue not yet mentioned is size, and in this case it "does count". Some of the streets / lanes in the 'urban fringe' are so tight that you would be lucky to get a 34p into so you can forget even trying to use something like Burnsides Pumper other than for relay pumping. So the concept of a 'mini-pumper' as a 12 replacement is certainly worth a thought.
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Are you all thinking this is what we will see in urban fringe brigades like your happy valley and Morphett vales etc or the brigades just back from them (ie not righto on urban fringe) like Aldgate, Piccadilly, most of Sturt group.
I like the stowage layout on the CFA truck But think the cab looks a little tight
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I don't understand what the fuss is about pumpers in CFS. MFS has spent the effort and money developing a good urban pumper, why doesn't CFS just tack on to their orders (in white)? Instead either the I&L staff or volunteers like Burnside members put in so much time and effort, free usually, reinventing the wheel.
How much does/did the following cost:
- an MFS pumper?
- Burnside's pumper?
- now what was the real cost of Burnside's pumper if you include all the volunteer time (and brigade fund-raised money of course)?
- Stirling pumper? (including all the repairs and volunteer time)
- refurbishing the Dennis?
- a newly designed 12 pumper type appliance? including staff time/wages writing the specs, inspections, volunteer consultation etc etc
I bet if you work out the real costs then buying white MFS pumpers would be cheaper, quicker, a lot less hassle for all concerned and result in a far better outcome for the community.
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The Cost difference between a CFS 34P & a TFS 3.1P is big enough lol...CFS spend so much on low value appliances...
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The other issue not yet mentioned is size, and in this case it "does count". Some of the streets / lanes in the 'urban fringe' are so tight that you would be lucky to get a 34p into so you can forget even trying to use something like Burnsides Pumper other than for relay pumping. So the concept of a 'mini-pumper' as a 12 replacement is certainly worth a thought.
I'm on the urban fringe and yes a 34P, Burnside pumper and a Scania find it tight in some streets but you would not drive those streets at a greater pace in a smaller appliance to make that much difference in arrival times. Plus these little pumpers have not got the acceleration or torque of larger engined appliances.
Darius I've heard a lot of brigades ask this question that you've raised you'd think cooperation on this might be a good idea from both CFS and MFS considering any business that orders greater numbers in anything the price is cheaper.Plus a white or red paint job cant be to hard!
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Yes but Arfa didn't think of it, so it can't be a good idea.....he just calls us MFS wannabe's when someone mentions it..... :roll:
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Not neccessarily in favour of the little pumper idea, but it is reasonable way
to get a decent pump close to fires down some of the laneways up in them thar
hills. I can think of a few within a few km that our old 24 is unpleasantly
tight. Our 34 just can't go there. These are bitumen through-roads, not driveways. And 24 is due for repplacement with an even bigger 34.
Once you add parked cars, the smaller vehicle gets better again.
While the big pumper has the muscle to shove parked cars around, there
sometimes isn't an out-of-the-way place to shove them ...
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When I referred to size it wasn't speed that i was concerned with but what Alan J just mentioned, we have streets here that if two cars are parked either side, there is no way through without "repositioning " one of them.
Reading today's Advertiser's "carsguide" it has an article on the new Canter range. They are now releasing a crew cab with a GVM of 7.5 tonne auto (2x4) A new engine mated to a Auto trans, 130Kw & 530Nm which they say is an increase of 14% pwr & 26% Tq over the Isuzu N series and 18% pwr & 36% Tq over the Hino 300. The question is are these figures capable of driving a 500gpm - 750gpm pump, carry 1000lt, sufficient hose and 4 BA.
As a comparison, Isuzu FTS 800 figures are 176Kw & 706Nm, 13,500 Kg GVM
Isuzu NPS 300 figures are 114Kw & 419Nm, 6000Kg GVM
Previous Canter figures were 110Kw & 471Nm, 6000Kg GVM
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From a brigade who currently has a 12 pumper appliance, I think it is a great idea for cfs looking at building 12 pumper appliances.
Besides the current 12 which we have is a bit slow on response due to the weight on the vehicle, they are a very versatile appliance.
These type of appliances are good in our area where vehicle access is tight. Majority of our area of response you would find it difficult to drive a 34 or 34p in driveways etc.
These appliances can be used for a urban and rural response with asset protection.
Well Done to CFS for looking at this !!
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From a brigade who currently has a 12 pumper appliance, I think it is a great idea for cfs looking at building 12 pumper appliances.
Besides the current 12 which we have is a bit slow on response due to the weight on the vehicle, they are a very versatile appliance.
These type of appliances are good in our area where vehicle access is tight. Majority of our area of response you would find it difficult to drive a 34 or 34p in driveways etc.
These appliances can be used for a urban and rural response with asset protection.
Well Done to CFS for looking at this !!
They may be viable for one or two brigades, our brigade got rid or our little pumper for the fact it had shocking acceleration away from intersections and torque for climbing hills, cramped for crew, PTO pump was to small not big enough for a real pumper and I think you'll find the stations that have got these little appliances left like Stirling have a real size pumper in the station as well (I'm not just talking actual cab/chasis size!)
Plus if there are driveways in your area that you can't get an appliance down just do what we do inform the resident and you'll see changes if they're serious about their property's protection. Should we be taking appliances in such tight areas?
This whole small pumper thing if it happens is just a smoke and mirrors deal from CFS corporate as they have not got the balls to ask for whats really needed. So to look good for the government ministers we get a sub standard product. Hence let's buy a second-hand Dennis then jump through hurdles!
Look at how offen they change tenders and the lack of quality on the appliances. If cheap as chips could build them CFS infastructure and logistics would be giving them a contract. Another question when is it that CFS has purchased a fleet of vehicles and there has only been slight teething issues? Not for a long time!
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They may be viable for one or two brigades, our brigade got rid or our little pumper for the fact it had shocking acceleration away from intersections and torque for climbing hills, cramped for crew, PTO pump was to small not big enough for a real pumper and I think you'll find the stations that have got these little appliances left like Stirling have a real size pumper in the station as well (I'm not just talking actual cab/chasis size!)
Plus if there are driveways in your area that you can't get an appliance down just do what we do inform the resident and you'll see changes if they're serious about their property's protection. Should we be taking appliances in such tight areas?
This whole small pumper thing if it happens is just a smoke and mirrors deal from CFS corporate as they have not got the balls to ask for whats really needed. So to look good for the government ministers we get a sub standard product. Hence let's buy a second-hand Dennis then jump through hurdles!
Look at how offen they change tenders and the lack of quality on the appliances. If cheap as chips could build them CFS infastructure and logistics would be giving them a contract. Another question when is it that CFS has purchased a fleet of vehicles and there has only been slight teething issues? Not for a long time!
SO we can complain to the local council, and they will them undertake extensive road works to enable us to drive our big 34's, and our large urban pumpers down the narrow and winding roads in the Adelaide Hills.....! That ain't going to happen!
We can have a word to the local residents, but if the driveway is too narrow, or the hairpin bend halfway down is too tight for the large trucks, it is often unlikely that the resident can do much to change that, even if they wanted to.
And if your old appliance didn't do the job effectively, why does that automatically mean any new appliance / new design going to have the same problem?
And is it really smoke and mirrors - could some brigades have actually asked for a mini pumper, and CFS is responding?
Did you know that the Dennis purchase was an experiment, to see if the vehicle would be suitable for CFS. The issues that it had showed it wasn't - hence we only have one lemon, rather than a whole fleet!
As has been discussed numerous times on various forums, one size doesn't fit all - and here is an opportunity for CFS to trial something new - and yet they are bagged for it.
But when they introduce a fleet of appliances, they get bagged for not trialling it!
Let's hope we all get a look at the mini pumper, and you never know, it might turn out to be a useful appliance!!
Pip
PS Of the three remaining 12's in the fleet, only Stirling has a larger Pumper (well, when it is actually at Stirling) - the other two brigades don't.
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Also i assume that the new canters and other chassis have come along way in terms of power compared to 20yr old ford traders.
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From a brigade who currently has a 12 pumper appliance, I think it is a great idea for cfs looking at building 12 pumper appliances.
Besides the current 12 which we have is a bit slow on response due to the weight on the vehicle, they are a very versatile appliance.
These type of appliances are good in our area where vehicle access is tight. Majority of our area of response you would find it difficult to drive a 34 or 34p in driveways etc.
These appliances can be used for a urban and rural response with asset protection.
Well Done to CFS for looking at this !!
They may be viable for one or two brigades, our brigade got rid or our little pumper for the fact it had shocking acceleration away from intersections and torque for climbing hills, cramped for crew, PTO pump was to small not big enough for a real pumper and I think you'll find the stations that have got these little appliances left like Stirling have a real size pumper in the station as well (I'm not just talking actual cab/chasis size!)
Plus if there are driveways in your area that you can't get an appliance down just do what we do inform the resident and you'll see changes if they're serious about their property's protection. Should we be taking appliances in such tight areas?
This whole small pumper thing if it happens is just a smoke and mirrors deal from CFS corporate as they have not got the balls to ask for whats really needed. So to look good for the government ministers we get a sub standard product. Hence let's buy a second-hand Dennis then jump through hurdles!
Look at how offen they change tenders and the lack of quality on the appliances. If cheap as chips could build them CFS infastructure and logistics would be giving them a contract. Another question when is it that CFS has purchased a fleet of vehicles and there has only been slight teething issues? Not for a long time!
Sorry Bundy Bear but I totally disagree with you.
Yes, accelaratio is not the same like a Hino 24 but the accelaration is not that bad, maybe slow in some areas but with a splitter gear box it is not the end of the world. Agree sometimes a bit emabarassing that a push bike rider probably can go faster than you up a hill. But remember this, those appliances are 23 years old and are still going hard. Remember they are a 2.4litre non turbo diesel, so for what they are they are pretty good.
My station does not have a bigger pumper the 350 GPM PTO pump on the 12 appliance is a good pump for the size of the tank and size of the appliance, kicks filtered over my 24 waterous/deutz pump.
You can tell the resident to make their driveway better but this can not always occur. As Pip said, how will we change roads which belong to local councils and Transport SA when it is cheaper to provide an appliance to suit the response area. I can assure you that the discussion with a 34 or 34P has been discussed with our brigade in the recent years and it has been physically proven that these appliances are not safe to manouvre in the area and making it difficult to respond. What does this mean when there is a big job in our area and we need strike teams to come in for support, I just don't know. Also I am talking about normal roads, not dirt tracks.
Think about going up someone driveway to respond to a domestic or asset protection response, and tell the owner or nearby resident that we can not help you because we can't get up your driveway. I reckon that would look great on the Morning Advertiser don't you think!!
The CFS is not smoke & mirrors this is an issue which has been discussed by me to the CFS and it is now being investigated and idead are being discussed. So really, I guess they are listening to the volunteer and adressing specific response area problems. So stop bitching about CFS in not listening to CFS volunteers when in fact they are.
If you think I am full of filtered, mate bring your 34 or 34P to my response area and I will see if you are a truck driver or a truck steerer. Maybe you don't drive a truck at all. I would be happy to show you the response and let you have some appreciation to what some brigades in the hills deal with.
Thanks PIP for your support. I know you have exactly the same problem when your 24 is replaced.
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Lets skip all the narrow, over vegitated driveways, lets skip all the questionable appliance builds, lets skip the long response times on windy hills roads, the answer is simple to all these conundrums A TRUE ONE SIZE, FITS ALL APPLIANCE.......The Boeing, yes sir house fires BOMB IT,... Factory fires BOMB IT,... Car fires BOMB IT and my personal favourite, Cats up trees ....oh yeah the complete salvo,....... happiness truly is wheels up and a wet pussy! :-D
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:lol:
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Lets skip all the narrow, over vegitated driveways, lets skip all the questionable appliance builds, lets skip the long response times on windy hills roads, the answer is simple to all these conundrums A TRUE ONE SIZE, FITS ALL APPLIANCE.......The Boeing, yes sir house fires BOMB IT,... Factory fires BOMB IT,... Car fires BOMB IT and my personal favourite, Cats up trees ....oh yeah the complete salvo,....... happiness truly is wheels up and a wet pussy! :-D
You are an ideas man JAFF,
but imagine the complaints when the guys cant get on the pilots emergency flying course because there all booked up or theres no funding. I can here the crying now. Then you'll get a certain crowd saying how come Burnside can have a A380 Airbus and we only get a crappy 737-400, its not fair. :-D :-D :-D
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ahhhh gold....sometimes its all so silly isnt it...lmao
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PIP & ITDAN
I said the idea was viable for some brigades not all.
Yes Pip I was fully aware the Dennis was a a trial appliance but who in their right mind buys an ageing appliance has it retro fitted to meet service and Australian specifications which could have been resolved at the case study level to realise it was not a good idea.
How many brigades would actually use a small appliance like this and just asking?
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As far as the Dennis is concerned, I know a bloke who knows a bloke in the UK who
is a fire service mechanic. Apparently, that particular Dennis was a lemon in the
UK too. It was gotten rid-of for that reason. Other vehicles of its vintage are
still in service.
Or so the story goes. If true, it is hardly a fair test of the appliance type.
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I visited the station the Dennis came from and also the worckshops, they couldn't beleive we had it on the run, said we must have spent a fortune on it. When it left them it was full of rust, the rear locker door had collapsed, BUT, it did have a brand new engine in it, as part of the lease agreement is that it has to run when returned.
They said you could have picked any other truck and never had an issue.
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Just some information on the CFA "Light Pumper"
Costs around $200,000
2500 LPM Pump
1100L Water
http://www.hino.com.au/News_LatestRelease.aspx?TabID=6&newsTabID=2&newsID=+HYk6T1D/mUNjcnLbfH/zg== (http://www.hino.com.au/News_LatestRelease.aspx?TabID=6&newsTabID=2&newsID=+HYk6T1D/mUNjcnLbfH/zg==)
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there are more and more pics of this type of truck popping up on ozfire. looks like a good starting point but only has 2ba in the ones i have seen. also all most of the hose is flaked and i don't know how that would be accepted in CFS.
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there are more and more pics of this type of truck popping up on ozfire. looks like a good starting point but only has 2ba in the ones i have seen. also all most of the hose is flaked and i don't know how that would be accepted in CFS.
Flaked hoses aint a bad thing Yakka I've worked from an applaince that had flaked 64mm hose so it was quick to run out those hoses from the appliance to a hydrant.
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yeah personally i like the idea but i have got the feeling that CFS is largely in favor of rolled hose.
are there any smaller truck dual cabs that could fit BA seats? just throwing it out there?
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yeah personally i like the idea but i have got the feeling that CFS is largely in favor of rolled hose.
are there any smaller truck dual cabs that could fit BA seats? just throwing it out there?
Now wouldn't that be nice. :wink:
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yeah personally i like the idea but i have got the feeling that CFS is largely in favor of rolled hose.
are there any smaller truck dual cabs that could fit BA seats? just throwing it out there?
Only if you mount the seats at right angle to the direction of travel ;)....4 seat cabs ;)
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BA seats, one can only dream... Failing that it wouldn't take too much to rejig the locker to fit in another two sets. (refer new photos on ozfire) Sounds like it might at least have a decent pump, and possibly a two stage at that. The information I read quoted it to be a Rosenbauer N-25 series pump, wouldn't that make it the model down from the pump fitted to the Type 2 pumpers?
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Its a pity that it only has 2 in 2 out, I would hope that if CFS went down this path they changed it to 4 in 4 out, then it would be a very good appliance.
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I don't understand what the fuss is about pumpers in CFS. MFS has spent the effort and money developing a good urban pumper, why doesn't CFS just tack on to their orders (in white)? Instead either the I&L staff or volunteers like Burnside members put in so much time and effort, free usually, reinventing the wheel.
How much does/did the following cost:
- an MFS pumper?
- Burnside's pumper?
- now what was the real cost of Burnside's pumper if you include all the volunteer time (and brigade fund-raised money of course)?
- Stirling pumper? (including all the repairs and volunteer time)
- refurbishing the Dennis?
- a newly designed 12 pumper type appliance? including staff time/wages writing the specs, inspections, volunteer consultation etc etc
I bet if you work out the real costs then buying white MFS pumpers would be cheaper, quicker, a lot less hassle for all concerned and result in a far better outcome for the community.
These are just hear say prices and i don't have these on paper but would be very close.
- MFS pump $400K (we could probably reduce this a touch with on 2 ba seats, just a
foam pro etc)
- Burnside pumper $500K + (not sure why, maybe coz of one off)
- Stirling $500K and still climbing (new pump being fitted)
- Dennis $would have to be 400K + by now (started at about $250k i think)
- New proto type one $pricless... hehe
Just a pity we did not get a decent dennis, our problems would have been solved long ago and we would now have spare parts and mechanics that have worked on them and would be bringing in mid 90's models by now.
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Tas Fire Service / TFS Engineering / "3.1.P" : $150,000-ish Very good consistant quality
SA CFS / SEM.MilsTui.Varley / 34 Pumper : $275,000-ish Good, filtered, Good, filtered, Slowly getting better
Very similar appliance....over $100,000 price difference, go figure.
Which one looks the most practical and...like a fire truck...the award goes to TAS FIRE SERVICE!!
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Tas Fire Service / TFS Engineering / "3.1.P" : $150,000-ish Very good consistant quality
SA CFS / SEM.MilsTui.Varley / 34 Pumper : $275,000-ish Good, filtered, Good, filtered, Slowly getting better
Very similar appliance....over $100,000 price difference, go figure.
Which one looks the most practical and...like a fire truck...the award goes to TAS FIRE SERVICE!!
zippy....have u seen one up live, or worked off one?.....don't be too quick with the adulation....good, but not great
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Tas Fire Service / TFS Engineering / "3.1.P" : $150,000-ish Very good consistant quality
Which one looks the most practical and...like a fire truck...the award goes to TAS FIRE SERVICE!!
Apparentley these builds were specified lap seat belts only, not lap sash seat belts............something to do with the sash, aggravating scar tissue!
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Tas Fire Service / TFS Engineering / "3.1.P" : $150,000-ish Very good consistant quality
SA CFS / SEM.MilsTui.Varley / 34 Pumper : $275,000-ish Good, filtered, Good, filtered, Slowly getting better
Very similar appliance....over $100,000 price difference, go figure.
Which one looks the most practical and...like a fire truck...the award goes to TAS FIRE SERVICE!!
zippy....have u seen one up live, or worked off one?.....don't be too quick with the adulation....good, but not great
Im going by "ease of use" by the firefighter ;) the fricken pump is more straight forward than ever.
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the old dakka dakka pump on the plastic 24s was pretty easy to operate too.....but that a good pumper doth not make
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the old dakka dakka pump on the plastic 24s was pretty easy to operate too.....but that a good pumper doth not make
CnD, a devotee of the old Bard.......I thinketh! :-)
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the old dakka dakka pump on the plastic 24s was pretty easy to operate too.....but that a good pumper doth not make
CnD, a devotee of the old Bard.......I thinketh! :-)
meh....whats a bit of mum love between friends :-D
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Tas Fire Service / TFS Engineering / "3.1.P" : $150,000-ish Very good consistant quality
SA CFS / SEM.MilsTui.Varley / 34 Pumper : $275,000-ish Good, filtered, Good, filtered, Slowly getting better
Very similar appliance....over $100,000 price difference, go figure.
Which one looks the most practical and...like a fire truck...the award goes to TAS FIRE SERVICE!!
zippy....have u seen one up live, or worked off one?.....don't be too quick with the adulation....good, but not great
So whats any different to what we have now, good but not great....
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:-D 14 pumpers i agree wid making them a 12 instead just like the METS appliances i say go ahead and build them and stow them with a full rcr and urban stowage
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:-D 14 pumpers i agree wid making them a 12 instead just like the METS appliances i say go ahead and build them and stow them with a full rcr and urban stowage i say my brigade at Stirling north could do with one of those we could do with a extra fire fightng apparatus to go with our 24P and 34P
The only drama with these 14 pumpers is the actual size of the truck once you load the mup with BA, RCR gear etc they are bogged down with weight.
The idea of these small pumpers only works in some hills brigades where the smaller size helps them get into tight driveways access points etc.
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Rumour has it (from a pretty reliable source) That there are a couple of "village pumpers", built by the Tasmanian Fire Service, ordered by the CFS as prototypes for trialling (similar process to the two QRVs from CFA which were used in the tour down under). They were due last november but are yet to be seen. They would be based on a canter type (could be a hino) chassis, dual cab and probably 4wd to allow for some rural use. They would have a 1000lt capacity and a large (undisclosed capacity) pump.
I believe the idea is that brigades in rural areas but with significant town-based assets (large schools, hospitals, etc.) would be the target recipients, as the pumper would aid in structure type incidents while it would have similar (note i said similar and not identical) capabilities to the CFS 14s of similar size in a rural incident.
As i said this information came from a VERY reliable source (no name as per forum rules, so dont bother asking) but i havent heard any new developments for several weeks.
Cheers
BTW i like the look of that CFA light pumper 'cept for the shortage of BA sets...
edit: typo
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Rumour has it, the CFS don't actually know the first thing about Appliance build ups, or how to actually put a 'Fire Truck' together...
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Rumour has it, the CFS don't actually know the first thing about Appliance build ups, or how to actually put a 'Fire Truck' together...
Are you sure that wasn't from a reliable source, and not just a rumour?
I like the idea of these "Village pumpers". Sounds like a good replacement for the ageing 12s in the fleet, and especially good for those areas with urban assets and narrow streets.
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Well if the guys in Tassie are anything to go buy the pumps aren't anything worth talking about, certainly won't do anything like boosting.
They are just the normal pumps 14's come with, can run 2x38's and have 1 inlet, not anything like the current very old 12's.
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They are just the normal pumps 14's come with, can run 2x38's and have 1 inlet, not anything like the current very old 12's.
If it's just the normal pump 14s come with, how does that make it any different to a 14? JJD?
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They have a different body on them, room for BA and an urban kit.
The CFA version would be more in keeping with the old 12 concept.
It only has 2 airsets though so you would need to turn out both your primary appliances to get 4 airsets, or ensure dual response.
I asked a question of a Tassie vol who's brigade went from an ACCO pumper to a Canter 14P...I asked if they liked the change from the ACCO to the Canter, this is the answer....
"Answer one, no we dont, one inlet 2 outlets and 2 BA. The pump can only just cope with 2 x 38mmTFT's. "
So yeah, says it all really.
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Hmmm a rumour that CFS is going to get some more Type 2's built soon....watch this space I suppose :|
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With word of massive budget cuts I think that might stay a rumour for a while.
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I wasnt informed of the specs of the pump, however i was under the impression that it would be a higher capacity than a 14.
I have my suspicions that it may be similar to the CFA light pumpers. (2inlets 2outlets dont like storz myself though...)
http://www.cfaconnect.net.au/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=viewcategory&catid=516&Itemid=11
Numbers, i would have to agree with your "rumour" after seeing some of the filtered that the CFS has commisioned over the past few years. At least the village pumpers are built by a fire service rather than a company that contracts small portions of their work to build fire trucks they know nothing about...