SA Firefighter
General Discussion => SAAS => Topic started by: VollyAmbo on June 02, 2010, 03:12:27 PM
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Hi long time viewer first time poster on these forums.
So it look like SAAS is going to make it extra hard to remain a volly ambo with them! (this come straight after they tell us how wonderful we are during volunteer week).
As of this year instead of having to work on road for 160 hours per year (just like Career Cert IV ambos and Paramedics/IC Paramedics) to keep our authority to practice we will now have to work 624 hours !!!
Unlike the Career Cert IV ambos working PTS/ESS who do 8 hours re accreditation training per year volly at the same level will be required to do 60+ hours training per year.
Me thinks SAAS management have lost the plot and we will see an mass exodus of volunteers this year.
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I can imagine a few being unhappy. But isnt that still only approx 1 shift per week? Surely most are hitting that anyway?
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for the majority that won't be hard. For the wannabe's and try-hards who are there for the uniform and a bit of a power trip- it will be a wake up call that it's not just a free side-show for freaks!
There are a number of metro fringe stations who are constantly having difficulty filling a roster despite having 'adequate' numbers on the books.
It's not a witch hunt- rather a much smarter way of weeding out those pretenders, while attempting to ensure that there is a reasonable level of patient contact time to the larger majority of volunteers.
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Gee bored matrix is there any one you actually like (SAAS vollys, St John, SAAS Management, private companies et al... all on the your hit list)?
I'm just asking for a level playing field. I'm happy to do 600+ hours to keep authority to practice, but will all SAAS Managers, RTL's, PSM, Directors people on special projects, educational services etc who hold an authority to practice and don't work full time on road be required to meet such hour requirements? If they don't/wont maybe their authority to practice, operational uniforms and ambulance kits in their cars should be taken away replaced with a First Aid certificate and kit :wink:
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It is important to remember that some of these people have studied for 3 years at university and had many, many years behind them as on-road Paramedics as a full time job, not as a volunteer role where there is not always a high-level of work. Yes, I know some country stations will be as busy as metro ones, but lets face it, City or Ashford or Prospect would see way more jobs in a day than say Mt Pleasant.
Therefore it makes sense to maintain training in a volunteer position where the people in the role have other commitments or fulltime work.
It's like me at the hospital. I am casual and only come in a few times a week. Therefore any new rules or practices I don't know about straight away because I am not there full-time.
As much as some people would like to, being a Volly AO is not like other volunteering jobs. You are actually potentially saving lives (perhaps more so than other emergency services), therefore practice and training need to be maintained in order to maintain a level of safe and best practice.
The only way it will be 'harder' to get into is by preventing the people that can or want to only do a shift or two a month, which really isn't suitable for a job such as this.
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Is there a requirement for the Vol to have to see or tocuh an ambulance or patient in that 624 hours...???? or simply be rostered on shift..???
That makes a big difference, particularly if you are from a station that only does 50 - 100 jobs a year, as opposed to a vol station that does 500 jobs a year...
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correct Straps...the requirement to complete a 12 hour shift every week has nothing to do with clinical competence, it's about being on the roster and filling the hole that SAAS can't do with paid staff. Many volunteers in quieter stations wont see more than 10 patients in that time.
Clinical competence is (supposedly) maintained with the seperate requirement to attend at least 50% of training nights, and a (poorly designed) CPE training package program.
and while we're at it .....disorderley, a very large number of Paramedics and ICPs havent been to Uni for 3 years, instead getting their positions with an internal SAAS program.
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Crash is very right most ambo's (including Bored Matrix vintage) were trained on the job via a internal Diploma (not that there is anything wrong with that)... but many have gone onto management jobs with very little patient contact and only have to do 160 hours on road and a few days training per year to keep a higher level qualification than a volly. Fairs Fair
Crash is also VERY correct about the piss poor CEP program, with book only just arriving (5 months into the year) with very little support material fro RTL's or teams to use for quality training. Vollys have been sitting around for the last 5 months with no direction on 2010 training at all.
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This is silly. Not all people can do that many hours in a week. Some of us Volly AO work more than 60 hour weeks and then try to put in time as a community spirit and helping hand. Not all people have the need to be heroes just want to ease the pain and suffering of all people. Has this been forgotten. Then there is family time. We have it told to us that this is important and SAAS must come second.
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Yes, I know not all ICP's and Paramedics have been university trained. But regardless it comes down to patient contact.
Maybe SAAS should look at modifying the training/minimum hours depending on the workload of regions/stations?
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I do believe the number of Volunteer resignations may be approaching 100 this year so far....double last year. Well done SAAS
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Crashndash this does not suprise me at all (the resignations).
Disorderly I think your missing the point... there are many SAAS manager who have less patient contact than volunteers but get to keep their accreditation, equipments and flashy cars at a higher level of skill with only 160 hours contact on road.
The country Director who is not a paramedic (ex-army) only holds a Cert II in Emergemcy Medical First Response (so I am more qualified than him with a Cert IV Health Care- Ambulance), however he only needs to do 160 hours a year to keep his qualifications, marked car, equipment and operational uniform, but its not the same for the people who he commands!
Volunteer education looks very impressive on paper now but compared to 10 years ago the standards have gone down hill many thanks to clinical and educational services.
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I enjoy seeing everybody getting involved how ever SAAS said this last year the year before that and the year before that and it still hasnt happend it now means that you will have to do 12.3 hours per week on roster.
My station only managed 115 jobs in 12 months may 09 to may 10 but my entire station has done over 500 hours on roster each.by they way we only have 5 crew!!!!!! and we are covering about half of our yearly roster.
if they do bring this new plan in, its not to make it harder but its trying to support us they are bringing in new guidelines so of course we are going to have to work a bit harder, we cry about not getting support and then when they try to support us we cry again i think that after 4 years with SAAS this years CDP book is the best yeat and i have already done quite alot. its not only up to our RTL's and VTC's to train us but there is some self directed study which is good for every one.
and before some one says i have plenty of time on my hands i dont i work 40+ hours a week play sport and still have time for 12 hours of ambulance work a week its called work life balance.
Cheers
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It appear that SAAS have also got manning problems in country stations and where there is a Volunteer downturn are not willing/ able to place staff into those stations as Metro staff dont wont to move or work in the country.....
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allouthere....thats fine, in fact seeing as your station only does that amount it is far easier for you to sit at home and wile away the standby hours and very occasionally get a job, than for some.
For those of us that travel away from where we live to do a shift, and therefore have to stay on station all shift, or whose stations do 600+ jobs a year, meaning that you get multiple jobs (usually to town) on many shifts, it's not so hard to "balance" your life as you put it.
For me a 12 hr shift means I am not at work, nor at home for 14 hours. I cant do any of my study nor any work associated with my employment, because we get multiple jobs, or spend out time at a sleepy little paid station covering their single crew's absence. I've done weekly (and more frequent) shifts for over 6 years now.....I just don't like the inference that I HAVE to or my contribution to a community I dont live in isnt wanted.
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Amen CrashnDash
Alloutthere did you realise just as crash said there are multiple stations like Goolwa, Meadows, Mt Pleasant, Kapunda, Strath, Mahala ect... that rely on 99% of their crews from volunteers who travel from metro Adelaide and sit on station for whole 12 hours on standby and yes do over 400+ jobs a years not including the operational standby coverage at nearby paid stations! We don't have the luxury to sit at home on standby. Without us ambulance services in these areas would collapse tommorrow. SAAS cant cover its metro career sick leave at the best of times let alone metro fringe volly crews.
Don't get me started on the CEP book, yeah it looks great but has arrived 5-6 Months late !!! ( we have had 5 months of "non education" time) Volunteer education is up the creek.
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wow vollyambo- yet another tirade!! .......you're starting to sound like a recently departed member of these forums who went by the name of 360joules.....
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What the .... boredmatrix
You don't give crashndash this attitude even though he/she has said basically the same thing? although previous posts show you have given crashndash in the past a forum bashing before.
From your previous posts it appears you are a career paramedic.
My forum post is in regards to SAAS volunteer issues. Real issues effecting emergency service volunteers. This appears to be the main function of this forum.
A review of your posts on a variety of subjects would also appear as a tirade. If you don't have any constructive comments to say or contribute instead of bait and hook comments why do you bother? :roll:
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it's not so much what you say as how you say it - and you must admit that 360Joules was less than backwards in coming forwards....come to think of it - a lot of what he said was bordering on slanderous! prob a good thing he deleted it all before any of the companies and/or SAAS got hold of it!! (yes....they know who you are!)
as for CnD - he has a little more panache' than some on this forum.....probably myself included!
and as for your last line....glass houses my friend, glass houses!
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:roll:
I leave conspiracy theories to others thanks.
There appears to be many a camelion on here with secret agenda, business interests, volly hate issues.
[Mod Note: The issue has been reported through the appropriate process.
Cheers, Mike]
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A problem is an opportunity looking for a place to happen. If you blokes who travel from Adelaide to near country stations to do your now compulsory 12 hour shift no longer want to volunteer for the government then consider alternatives. There is a small non emergency ambulance service owned and run by volunteers who are on the road every night of the week in metro Adelaide. Not for profit humanitarian NGO.
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Blackfoot, not with all the panache I could muster.....I've made comments on your service (?) before....in the interests of playing nicely with others, I wont repeat them again, but look under your thread and you'll see them
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I did notice in the local paper yesterday that Penola SAAS are seeking permission for a full time paramedic to be stationed there cause of the decline in volunteer enrolments which isnt such a bad thing considering that its hard alot of times to even pull a crew from alot of volunteer stations
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VOLLYAMBO for your information i travel over an hour to be on call i sit there for 12 hours and while im there i do some of my SAAS training to kill time also i have come from one of those busy stations and i have cut back from doing as many hours as i use to. being 60 hours out of a week now down to 12 big change
YES the CDP book came out late not the first time SAAS has done this also if you spent 5 months with no education maybe you should have done something like revision of things you already know to be come better at them.
Some people wont be able to handle the fact that SAAS want vollys to do more of there own learning and doing more hours to weed out the want to be's there are alot of vollys out there who are well lets say unsafe, and this would be SAAS's way of saying shape up or ship out. but as i said last time SAAS have been going to increase our yearly hours for the last THREE years and havent done it so when it happens or should i say if it happens lets give it ago
Lets bring the vollys foward and out of the past and make it a profesinal service that people wont be able to tell the difference between paid and volly at the end of the day if we have to do 162 hours a year or 600 plus.
624 hours a year is 12 hours aweek and its up to you how you get your 12 hours maybe split it into 2 6 hours shifts insted and even if you fall short of the hours providing you have good reason for example work then saas will help you.
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Just in case you missed it
SAAS have been saying they want to up the volly hours for the last 3 years and its yet to happen.
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[Mod Note: The issue has been reported through the appropriate process.
Cheers, Mike]
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Thank you Moderator Mike.... Just to put everyone in the picture I received two private messages today highlighting how both name and email identity theft or misuse can easily happen on this forum either in registration or after set up. Without high lighting how this is done, I am thankful and I'm sure everyone else is grateful the moderators are on the case.
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alloutthere
I agree with you that some volunteers are just dangerous including some who exceed the new expect training and on road hours.
Check the back page of the new CEP book and you will note the new expected hours have been implemented.
I am a true believer in self education, so again no argument.
I'm just sad to see good volunteers who are OK clinically punished and disregarded by management because of work/life pressures cant meet these new expected hours. Just like SACFS, SASES volunteers are expected to do more and more often without support.
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lol....obviously not in you're end of the world alloutthere.... but in some Regions, specifically Central, its gone out and people have received letters asking them to provide reasons why they shouldnt be booted and to sign contracts ensuring they will meet the requirement.
I'm very happy to have a system that guarantees patient outcomes,bring it on I say - read my comments earlier again.....this latest requirement is not about that - its about MAKING people be on a roster and arses on seats. It has everythign to do with reporting crew gaps to SA Health and the state of the volunteer workforce
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Just to reiterate the message - if ambulance volly's from Adelaide are sick of the the SAAS demands then consider the alternative. A volunteer ambulance NGO that respects volunteers for their service to the community, not to the socialist medicine state. Although a few members of this forum may find that difficult to deal with and indeed may be persons that have not met the entry criteria due to medical problems be assured that when the government finally closes the last volunteer station we will still be operating for persons too poor to afford the state ambulance service.
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hahahah.....bet you're not
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and just to re-iterate the point I made previously that was kindly removed by the Moderators.....
I would not consider working with the EMT Ambulance organisation. The thread relating to their company explains my reasons why.
If you want to tout for members in a thread.....dont go running to the umpire when the answer comes back that no-one wants to play
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Wow this is getting quite heated!
Relax guys!
I tried to be a volunteer with SAAS Strathalbyn, but I was knocked back for being a student/not being from Strath and was also told that they were not recruiting because they were not training this year.
I was told however, that Goolwa has been struggling to fill shifts and desperately wants people, but they haven't been allowed to recruit either.
But I still think that saying paid staff who have less contact hours, but many years experience and qualifications and would still maintain their training should not be able to practice is not correct. These people don't drive around all day to attend to patients and are used to respond when resources are low, they are there to stabilise and assess, similar to what volunteers can do.
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Goolwa have been struggling to fill some shifts, not uncommon for a para to be on with a vollie or para's manning their truck or even a para car from victor or FP76 sitting at their station for a shift.... Bit sad considering they have 30 people on the books there.
Disorderly i am surprised they knocked you back for not living in strath, probably two thirds of goolwa's members live elsewhere.
Goolwa station are running a recruit drive around september/october for a february start....
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Can't talk about recent times, but Strath always had a 'rule' that its vollies had to live within the town. I did 10 years at Goolwa and saw many Adelaide people try and do work at Strath station and were always knocked back...
As a side note and slightly O/T - I am somewhat reluctant to post in these medical / first aid / ambulance threads, due to the hiding behind pseudonyms / profiles that people do (and the multiple profiles etc). Whilst I accept that annonyminity does provide some 'cover' for greater free speech, people should have the balls to have their say and be transparent in doing so...
Just my thoughts...
Cheers
Shane
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SAAS has changed the recruiting this year it now works on a 2 year cycle my station is recruiting now and we need all the help we can get having only 5 crew puts alot of presure on others.
The thought of stations not takiing people on because they dont reside in the station catchment is pathetic. i cant live in the town of my station cause of my partners work we have to live within 8 minutes of his station.
i think we should give it ago this year and see what happens at the end of the day we are vollys and what are they going to do sack us we have support through the AEA if anybody thinks they are being unfairly treated then find out who your nearest AEA rep is or contact the AEA for advice.
I realise that volunteeing is harder for somepeople and i do find it hard but manage my 12 hours a week.
Also can somebody tell me where they found out the amount of hours SAAS wants all i can find in the CDP book is 1 shift aweek and 2 trainings a month.
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think we should give it ago this year and see what happens at the end of the day we are vollys and what are they going to do sack us we have support through the AEA if anybody thinks they are being unfairly treated then find out who your nearest AEA rep is or contact the AEA for advice.
Ummm, why would the AEA want to know or care... And they certainly aren't likely to assist with the plight of vollies, I wouldn't think..!!?!??! (Unless something dramatic has happened in the last few years...)
Cheers
Shane
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Wow... Whats worse than Ambos? VOLLO Ambos...
(Like you can't apply THAT to teh Fire Service?)
Play nice kiddies :P
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Hey Numbers,
My apologies if my comments about the AEA seemed harsh.. Wasn't intended to irk anyone, just more stating my previous experience. I have a huge amount of time and respect for vols (in all services), but a union is a union and I can't imagine the UFU going into battle for the plight of CFS volunteers..??!!!
The concept of volunteering is drastically changing and people commit less time at shorter notice now days... An average emergency service vol used to have about 2 - 3 years service before leaving, I wonder whether that has reduced and whether the respective services are changing their crewing / rostering and more importantly their training to reflect this and STILL meet community expectations...
I completely agree that we should provide the highest level of service to any community but is there an argument to have some form of response v's none..???
Cheers
Shane
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Hi all,
Just got around to reading this thread.
Firstly, I don't think you will find it written anywhere that PTS/ESS staff have to work a minimum of 160 hours per year to maintain accreditation - because there is no accreditation, no CDP's no nothing!! - Well, that is not quite true, did have one a couple of years ago.
Secondly, there are plenty of managers who squeeze themselves into their uniform and call themselves paramedics - even though the last clinical thing they did was to put a bandaid on their grandkids teddybear. It should be automatic accreditation for everyone, no tick on the sheet, no wear the uniform.
Having made that last statement might I add that I don't think that qualifications or hours spent in the truck are the main things that make a good ambo. I know plenty of career ambos with years of experience who are clinically incompetent, degree carrying paramedics who know all the correct terminology but don't know which end of the patient to look at first. I also know vollees without any (non SAAS) clinical background and who only attend one job per month who I would literally trust with my life.
It all comes down to knowing the basics, knowing your limitations, keeping a cool head, being a good detective with regards to scene and history and knowing when to call for advice and backup. They are the ones who come back from a job muttering, "The hospital said it appeared to be unstable angina" and then disappear into the world of Google or the volume on cardiac conditions to find out more on the subject.
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There will always be SAAS volunteer stations in rural SA. And by the way your founding members could have gone rural to maintain your skills instead.
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A problem is an opportunity looking for a place to happen. If you blokes who travel from Adelaide to near country stations to do your now compulsory 12 hour shift no longer want to volunteer for the government then consider alternatives. There is a small non emergency ambulance service owned and run by volunteers who are on the road every night of the week in metro Adelaide. Not for profit humanitarian NGO.
WOW Blackfoot it looks look you are actively seeking new volunteer paramedics for EMT Ambulance SA as you keep refering to the only NGO Ambulance Service in Adelaide... I have visited the EMT website and it says the group is a volunteer guild of paramedics? Who is actually a qaulified paramedic within the group?
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There are no suitably qualified paramedics with SA EMT Service. :mrgreen:
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Ah yes...but what is a paramedic??
Until registration happens...there'd is nothing stopping anyone using the term.
Heaven help us if St John ever worked that out......there'd be an army of black and white "paramedics" at every major event......
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Hey to all those out there knocking Strath. I know personally two people who live in Adelaide and go to Strath to volunteer. They have said that they have found the station to treat them with open arms and have had good support from all the crew and RTL. These people came from another station where they lived in the country town but where treated as lepors but where still expected to fill the roster and called upon often when there was a short fall. They have nothing but praise for Strath. :-D
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I have been to Strath station since this has happened (and I know a few members from Strath) and I know that the people there are pretty cool.
But I still have the letter saying otherwise :p
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As if that would happen in your time, Blackfoot. :lol: