SA Firefighter
General Discussion => Country Fire Service => Topic started by: rescue5271 on October 30, 2005, 02:50:42 PM
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I did hear on the CFS grape vine that we are no longer allowed to go on roofs to do anywork has anyone else heard or know about this????? if it is true can I please order a skyjet for all brigades that have to attend fires in roof spaces and chimney fire's please.
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unheard of down this way,if thats the case we wont be able to even go out on the truck soon, any reason for this?
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Not too sure but it may be OHSW??? If that is the case take the ladders of the truck and before we go to a job send out a safety officer and let him/her say if we can attend.
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i think that may be just a silly rumor mate...
altho' ther is a part of the OHSW policies that say safety harnesses must ebe worn when worjking at heights above 1.4m .... so thats when were working on ladders... on the roof of the truck (where we keep foam and stuff)... even getting into the truck is probably that height.
but no... getting on the roof is a part of normal firefighting work... maybe somebody was told never to work on the roof with fire beneath you, and they misinterpreted it the npassed it on... stranger things have happended///
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lol... Think you may have been told an urban myth...
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There is an issue about working at heights, hence the massive amount of safety railings on Stirling pumper.
I sincerley hope its just a made up story because working on the roof is essential, one of the first things to do for venting etc.
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There is an issue about working at heights, hence the massive amount of safety railings on Stirling pumper.
I sincerley hope its just a made up story because working on the roof is essential, one of the first things to do for venting etc.
exactly so it cant possibly be true... unless the CFS's new policy will be to just let it burn and do defensive attacks.. .LOL
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The only time Ive heard that were not allowed a roof was just after a ff fell through it..... long story not getting into it..... but have never heard an official directive saying so, was just a post accident directive for that job.
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Heard from a friend of a friend that CFS are going to paint the front of their trucks red , as people get out of the way of red trucks quicker................
Now I just made that up, shows how easy it is for people to start rumours that have no factual information at all...
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It is true that you are not supposed to go over a height of 1.4m or the likes under teh OHSW Act however some brigades are worried about their personnel and have started approaching group and region for roof working kits (includes harnesses and ropes etc) :? :oops:
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hahahahahahah omgwtf....
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Was talking to a DGO from another group in region five and he said its true we are not allowed on the roof of anything over 1.4 meters.
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what next :?
how about a hot weather policy :evil:
anything about 40c and we will return back to station
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Was talking to a DGO from another group in region five and he said its true we are not allowed on the roof of anything over 1.4 meters.
I reckon it would be near 1.4 metres high to get into the cab of our new 34, might not be able to get in without a harness anymore.
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There is an OH&S thing about working above 1.4m but common sense must prevail, my understanding is that you can work outside of oh&s guidelines providing there is a risk management process. The OH&S gurus could probably shed some light.
Could you imagine a situation where fire fighters where not allowed to go up a ladder to rescue a trapped person on the second floor of a building.
This is more than likely a case of something small being blown out of proportion. Don't give rumors too much weight until and if they come out in written policy as in the COSO/SOP or Operations guidelines.
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Perhaps a fall arrest system for enter/exiting the cab of the 34P?
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Just to clarify there is NO act or regulation that stipulates a safe height in SA. If you can fall then the risk must be managed, proper steps, good grab handles & 3 points of contact are all that's required. Now you may have some stupid rule in CFS about 1.4 mtrs, but to repeat there is no standard height.
Now if you were in Vic they talk about 1.8 mtrs, so that is why my company has that as a safe height across the whole country.
And yes Numbers, there is a "ladder safety system" you could use but you would have to wear a harness & it hurts when it pulls you up suddenly (guys would understand):wink: Me thinks the cure would be worse than the fall!
cheers
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Guys and gals, I have heard the don't go roofs any more, i believe it was told to me from the Naracoorte area, can't remember exactly who.
The things we need to consider are. is the structure sound, how do you tells this standing out front on the ground, too late if you climb up and the roof caves in.
Legislation actually state's that in SA fall protection must be considered above a height of 300mm. Yep that is 300mm.
This can be achieved relatively easy in industry, put a handrail up, Done.
In our service not so easily, As far as i know the statement about no going onto roofs is incorrect, Look at BFF 1, You are still taught to climb ladders, ladders can be used for other things than accessing roofs i here you say. but roof ventillation may need to be used in a structure fire if the internal ceiling fail and allows fire into the roof space.
The comment about getting skyjets for all CFS brigades, Good joke, they dont actually serve any usefull purpose apart from wasting lots of water.
We all need to be carefull and consider our own safety before going on to any roof. a simple risk assessment before acting may actually increase your life span.
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it's all relative in context...
....last I heard firey's were affectionately calling ambo's FERRETS..
....primarily due to getting to VA's and ambo's being in the car before they'd done their vehicle stabilisation and D/C the battery.
I laughed...but they had a point - but then putting it into context - if the car isn't stable and there's any other hazards - we'll hold off...it's about assessing the risk and making an informed decision in regard to your own safety. I've worked with people who won't enter somewhere that I'm happy to and Vice-Versa......each to their own!
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it's all relative in context...
....last I heard firey's were affectionately calling ambo's FERRETS..
....primarily due to getting to VA's and ambo's being in the car before they'd done their vehicle stabilisation and D/C the battery.
I laughed...but they had a point - but then putting it into context - if the car isn't stable and there's any other hazards - we'll hold off...it's about assessing the risk and making an informed decision in regard to your own safety. I've worked with people who won't enter somewhere that I'm happy to and Vice-Versa......each to their own!
wo wo wo, just hold up there tiger, Boredy if your suggesting using common sense then your obviously on the wrong forum and its about time you sat down and had a good, hard look at yourself! :-D
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I reckon this rumour would of snowballed after the recent stop-work order placed on Foxtel contractors due to their unsafe work practices when installing satellite dishes on rooves.......
Here's one for you - don't go near fire, it's hot and you might get hurt.
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I've heard of the 300 mm rule - like to know where it is coming from as regulation Prevention of falls - Division 2.13 does not mention a specified height
(2) If—
(a) a person must work—
(i) in an elevated workplace from which he or she could fall; or
(ii) in the vicinity of an opening through which he or she could fall; or
(iii) in any other place from which he or she could fall,
and it is reasonably foreseeable that the person would be injured in such a fall
due to the distance of the fall; or
(b) a person must work in the vicinity of an enclosure or container into which he
or she could fall and there is a reasonable likelihood that the person would be
injured in such a fall,
reasonable protection against a fall must be provided—
(c) by the provision of a safe means of access to the workplace; and
(d) by the provision of secure fences, covers or other forms of safeguarding or, if
that is not reasonably practicable due to the nature of the work, by the
provision and maintenance of safe systems of work.
Now don't know about you but to me blanket banning working on a roof is just plain stupid - it is another knee jerk reaction by people who don't have practical experience in these matters.
If you want good information take a look at the "Prevent of Falls - Emergency Services" Guide book from WorkSafe Victoria. It has good practical information in it, Safework SA also produces a "Work at Height" book. Again this has some useful information.
It really pisses me off when people use OHS as a tool so tasks can't get done, I spend over half of my working day dealing with half truths & mis-understandings & it gives OHS a bad name.
Anyway thing thats all I have that is constructive.
cheers
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Ah the good ol working at heights debate. We have a no working beyond a 2mtr height without fall arrest equipment at work. There benefit is huge but in an emergency services sense a pain in the rear. We had to have out roof top monitor converted to remote control because of them.
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wo wo wo, just hold up there tiger, Boredy if your suggesting using common sense then your obviously on the wrong forum and its about time you sat down and had a good, hard look at yourself! :-D
you're right - i retract my statement - i musta have lost my mind...
..besides - anyone should have guessed by my use of correct grammar, spelling and big words that clearly I'm out of my depth on this forum!
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There was a discussion paper I saw a while back relating to the effects of fire on a roof for firefighters, and basically if its one of these new style houses with the multilink nail trusses, the weight rating drops dramatically on the roof you might be walking on..take care out there :wink:
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..besides - anyone should have guessed by my use of correct grammar, spelling and big words that clearly I'm out of my depth on this forum!
Yet you cant stay away! :lol:
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I'm 6'5, I nearly need a harness everytime I stand up!!
But seriously..
Its always going to be the subject of lengthy debates.. However, in a house fire, i'll be up on the roof popping tiles for my interior crew, and getting ventilation while a few of you get your harness and fall arrest gear ready..
And yes, I have fallen through a roof in a house fire. Sure, you weigh up the risks every job you go to. Its a tough gig, but it has to be done. OH&S gets a little crazy sometimes.. In a controlled environment, I can see the reasons for putting every pre-caution in place.. (E.G, non-emergency site works etc). But like BM stated with the getting into cars, you have to weigh up the risks.. - Yeah, the airbag *might* go off, or the car *might* shift, but if the person WILL die if you dont get in there, I know where I would be!.. (In the car, for those trying to work it out!)
Same goes with a roof.. You *might* fall through, or you *might* fall off.. But if your crew need that ventilation, or if some one is up there and they go down for what ever reason (or rescue), like I said, I know where I will be..
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So really, in our environment, it is about weighing up the risks of doing something (eg get on the roof) vs not...and making a decision based on the info you have at the time.
Pip
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Exactly Pip.. Sometimes I think all the OH&S guru's and policy makers need to realise this!
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quite often safer to open windows/doors at the back of the building to ventilate rather than run the risk of clambering around on the roof during a fire.. especially if you have a fan. Obviously different jobs have different needs..
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I've heard of the 300 mm rule - like to know where it is coming from as regulation Prevention of falls - Division 2.13 does not mention a specified height
(2) If—
(a) a person must work—
(i) in an elevated workplace from which he or she could fall; or
(ii) in the vicinity of an opening through which he or she could fall; or
(iii) in any other place from which he or she could fall,
and it is reasonably foreseeable that the person would be injured in such a fall
due to the distance of the fall; or
(b) a person must work in the vicinity of an enclosure or container into which he
or she could fall and there is a reasonable likelihood that the person would be
injured in such a fall,
reasonable protection against a fall must be provided—
(c) by the provision of a safe means of access to the workplace; and
(d) by the provision of secure fences, covers or other forms of safeguarding or, if
that is not reasonably practicable due to the nature of the work, by the
provision and maintenance of safe systems of work.
Now don't know about you but to me blanket banning working on a roof is just plain stupid - it is another knee jerk reaction by people who don't have practical experience in these matters.
If you want good information take a look at the "Prevent of Falls - Emergency Services" Guide book from WorkSafe Victoria. It has good practical information in it, Safework SA also produces a "Work at Height" book. Again this has some useful information.
It really filtered me off when people use OHS as a tool so tasks can't get done, I spend over half of my working day dealing with half truths & mis-understandings & it gives OHS a bad name.
Anyway thing thats all I have that is constructive.
cheers
Chook
Do you have web links to the work at height Guide Books???
Cheers
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I have been reading these posts concerning working at heights with some interest. So I though it about time to put forward my 2 cents worth. Firstly I have included the links to the Safework SA site and Workcover Vic where you can download the "working at height" booklets. Bare in mind that SA one is written mainly for the construction industry. The other booklet that Chook referred to is better, although it of course quotes the 1.8m Vic height regulation.
My day job has me playing the role of a Workplace Safety Officer, so I have the joy of dealing with working at height issues on a daily basis. The Regulations are what they are, their is no getting around them if you want to stay compliant. I would be the first to admit the stupidly of different rules for different states that just added to the confusion. But, here in SA there is no stated height before you require fall protection. Having said that, as emergency service workers we are able to work outside the guidelines if we are working in an emergency situation. (the 2nd booklet highlights this quite well) But, we should allways remember to look out for ourselves and fellow firefighters 1st no matter what task we are doing, this includes working at heights.
My brigade has recently purchased two roof kits (plus training) to enable us to work on roofs that much safer. Now obviously if the situation was that to enable a time critical rescue to take place we wouldn't be using precious minutes doning harnesses etc. But for jobs where there is a greater exposure to the risks, eg venting or laying out tarps where you are likely to be spending a longer amount of time at height then if the gear is available and you have been trained in it use, then the task can be carried out with greatly reduced risk.
Links to Safe Working at Height booklets
www.safework.sa.gov.au/show_page.jsp?id=2774
www.worksafe.vic.gov.au/wps/wcm/resources/file/ebcdbf435dcb573/prevention_falls_emergency.pdf
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My brigade has recently purchased two roof kits (plus training) to enable us to work on roofs that much safer. Now obviously if the situation was that to enable a time critical rescue to take place we wouldn't be using precious minutes doning harnesses etc. But for jobs where there is a greater exposure to the risks, eg venting or laying out tarps where you are likely to be spending a longer amount of time at height then if the gear is available and you have been trained in it use, then the task can be carried out with greatly reduced risk.
Storm damage, I can partially understand but at the same time setting up the rope systems really, really slows down your ability to work - not so much an issue for single houses, but when there are many houses it can really show. As far as venting/fire fighting operations go, wouldn't the more common sense approach of testing the roof and evacuating if it feels spongy work out to be safer and more efficient, rather than trying to setup ropes around a structure that is burning?
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quite often safer to open windows/doors at the back of the building to ventilate rather than run the risk of clambering around on the roof during a fire.. especially if you have a fan. Obviously different jobs have different needs..
Yes but do the CFS have a training course in place for the effective use of fans? (Or the MFS for that matter?)
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They...did, and see what comes up in 2009 regarding CFS structural training ;)
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They...did, and see what comes up in 2009 regarding CFS structural training ;)
Hopefully...anything!