SA Firefighter
General Discussion => Country Fire Service => Topic started by: bittenyakka on February 17, 2007, 06:33:23 PM
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I asked this in another topic but decided it should be made into it's own. Personally I think it is a good idea to pay CFS who are filling in for MFS. Eg I wouldn't like to be called into a station outside of my area at 2 am to sit around until the Red trucks come home.
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But you go to MVA's at 2am when its filtered cold and wet and stand around waiting for cars to come so you can tell them to go a different way. Id rather be paid to do that than sit in a station that at least has heating or air conditioning waiting for a red truck.
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No I dont think we should be paid,if you dont wont to go then dont, no one is forcing you to go..time some people woke up and stopped trying to get paid for something that has been the way of the VOLUNTEER service for a long time...If you wont to get paid go join the MFS.......
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No I dont think we should be paid,if you dont wont to go then dont, no one is forcing you to go..time some people woke up and stopped trying to get paid for something that has been the way of the VOLUNTEER service for a long time...If you wont to get paid go join the MFS.......
My sentiments precisely. I think we all need to think back to why we joined in the first place. If my house is on fire I don't care what colour your truck is and I don't care if you're getting paid or not - the big picture is saving life, property and the environment....isn't it? Not squabbling over who's 'patch' it is or who's getting paid.
Blue.
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No CFS shouldnt get paid for COQ, because its no different to assiting MFS in there area with 2-3 alarm fires etc.
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So pay CFS for all responses into SAMFS area. :wink:
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I dont think the volunteers should be paid for COQ. However the CFS as a whole should recieve something.
At a strike team, all expenses are paid for by the primary group, in this scenario MFS is the primary "group" and there fore expenses should be charged to them....??
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So pay CFS for all responses into SAMFS area. :wink:
Thats an interesting thought. I've often thought that if the MFS utilize CFS in their area it's really free labour in a way. Have often been to grass fires in MFS area where we are the last to leave even though its their area. :-)
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Exactly - They are back in station being paid to cover the area while CFS is mopping up their fire ground for hours. I know many would resist being paid in CFS area but surely the emergency services levy should be used to compensate people for the labour component of serving an area covered by SAMFS.
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I dont think the volunteers should be paid for COQ. However the CFS as a whole should recieve something.
At a strike team, all expenses are paid for by the primary group, in this scenario MFS is the primary "group" and there fore expenses should be charged to them....??
*cringe* lets just drive an even bigger wedge between the services! Surely this would make people hesitate (even more than they do now) to call on brigades for support if it means dollars?
If CFS do standby at the MFS station we get free coffee and biscuits/ Now isn't that payment enough? :lol:
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If CFS do standby at the MFS station we get free coffee and biscuits/ Now isn't that payment enough? :lol:
Isn't that exactly the same as strike teams getting catered for? (Except with a bonus comfy couch and TV/DVD setup? :P)
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It's an interesting point. I'm thinking of the Sturt St fires here in Mt Gambier where CFS worked alongside MFS crews, we were all getting stuck into ration packs, but in the morning we all got McDonald's muffins - I wonder if CFS had to foot the bill for this? Or would it have been MFS cos it was their area? Does anyone know how this arrangement works? I didn't even think of that before reading this post.
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This discussion is making me think.
Two points i have
I am wondering when there is a crash on the freeway and Burnside and 441 get responded as 441 will get there first do they sit around and clean up letting the Vollies go home or do they leave it for Burnside to pack up so they can go and provide fire cover? and what do other CFS brigades in this position usally do?
The Idea of CFS being paid every time we go into MFS area is silly but I think that If CFS and MFS are working together MFS in MFS area then CFS should be allowed to go home as soon as possible because they are Vollies.
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Bring on the SAFS where everybody gets paid for their time and effort, everybody has the same color truck, same gear, same training, same qualifications, same admin, same.....
And its all one big happy family.
Yeah right. LOL
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This discussion is making me think.
Two points i have
I am wondering when there is a crash on the freeway and Burnside and 441 get responded as 441 will get there first do they sit around and clean up letting the Vollies go home or do they leave it for Burnside to pack up so they can go and provide fire cover? and what do other CFS brigades in this position usally do?
The Idea of CFS being paid every time we go into MFS area is silly but I think that If CFS and MFS are working together MFS in MFS area then CFS should be allowed to go home as soon as possible because they are Vollies.
It depends whose area it is in. The freeway up to crafers is a triple response of Stirling, Burnside and MFS. Depending on where it is, MFS or Stirling will arrive first, MFS usually hang around untill either Stirling or Burnside arrive to take details or assist.
Why should CFS be allowed to go home first if our paid colleagues are out of their area and in ours? Is it not our responsibility?
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If its our area we should be sending them home and vice versa...but wait they are'nt equipped to fight running grass fires in their area :lol:
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In my area, when MFS come in to our area we release them as soon as possible, and vice versa, we go into there area, they send us home as soon as possible. The way I see it is if it is CFS area, it is CFS responsibility to do the job, MFS area there responsibility.
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There is now an SOP that an MFS appliance must stay in attendance at incidents in SAMFS area until all appliances including CFS have left the scene even at grass fires.
Every job i have been to in MFS area we have been catered for the same as we would at a CFS job and any change of Quarters i have been to we have been given meals at meal time.
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I asked this in another topic but decided it should be made into it's own. Personally I think it is a good idea to pay CFS who are filling in for MFS. Eg I wouldn't like to be called into a station outside of my area at 2 am to sit around until the Red trucks come home.
If you want to go out on the trucks and get paid for it you are in the wrong service. !!!!!!!!!None of us like going to sit in an MFS station and baby sit their area but its all part of the job. Sometimes we got to take the good with the bad. So I guess we sould not get paid because as CFS members we do not have the training the MFS has and we don't have the amount of responsibility they they do ether.
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So I guess we should not get paid because as CFS members we do not have the training the MFS has and we don't have the amount of responsibility they they do ether.
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Whoa......we don' get paid because we don't have the responsibility that they do?
CFS members have some MAJOR responsibilities. I am responsible for 30 people. I have to make sure they are trained to an appropriate standard, following the COSO's & SOPS. I have to make sure they are all equipped in the appropriate PPC. I have to make sure the two appliances, and all the equipment in my brigade are kept at a suitable standard.
I have to live up to an expection of my community. I have to look after bushfire prevention, and ensure people in my area do the right thing. I have to deal with members in my brigade who have big dummy spits over something that has happened, and sort it out (rather than leave it to fester..)
I have to go out & entice members of the community to join, and train them, and help & support them through their training, and to their jobs. I have to deal with members when they face a nasty incident,
I go to incidents, and have to make life & death decisions (thankfully, not often). I go to incidents, and literally put my life on the line, and the life of the 5 other people I am in charge of on that appliance. I have to direct people at incidents, ensuring I do the right things. If I don't, I get a big "Please explain" from the Coroner, or the media. In the case of recent events, even if I get it right, I might still have to give a "Please Explain" to the Coroner, and have my credibility attacked publically.
And I do all of this without a monetary payment.
So, do I really have less responsibility than an MFS firefighter?
And as for training...well, that is another story...
Pip
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where do we draw the line and say we get paid for this and not that??? The SACFS is a VOULUNTEER service now if we were to look at it more closely this is what would happen...A brigade (volunteer) would have two appliances and would or could have a membership of say 40...If you were to be paid then your numbers would drop to a level that would not be workable you would be looking at a membership of 15 or less.
At the moment the UFU are trying to push into Victoria a retain system into CFA brigade's have strong volunteer membership of 50 plus with a station with 2 appliances under the retain system there numbers would drop to a max of 10.....as we have all seen over summer CFA brigade's have had a large work load and the MFB has been very helpful...but do you really want to be paid????
Don't know about anyone else I joined to serve my community and that was 25 years ago I don't want payment and I would not accept payment for something that gives me enjoyment and knowing that I have done my community a service by protecting them and the state.....
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We seem to be talking about 2, ever so slightly, separate issues.
What was the intended meaning of the original post?
- Should personel be paid for their services in MFS area? (I think not)
- Should the SERVICE recieve payment for services provided in MFS area? ( I think we should)
might come back and do some justification a little later..... phones can be so annoying!
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Either way Mike the vollies shouldnt be getting the money.
Any expense that maybe incurred while at MFS (COQ or Incident) should and probaly is covered by MFS. And vise versa.
Vollies getting paid for there services is just crap. If you cant justify your time to sit in an MFS station doing COQ then dont go. But if you cant justify it then when can you? why is it different in MFS area then our own? Your still protecting your community or someone elses which what the CFS is about.
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We seem to be talking about 2, ever so slightly, separate issues.
What was the intended meaning of the original post?
- Should personel be paid for their services in MFS area? (I think not)
- Should the SERVICE recieve payment for services provided in MFS area? ( I think we should)
might come back and do some justification a little later..... phones can be so annoying!
Well Initially I asked in the term of The individual would be paid for their time spent doing COQ. not Time in MFS area.
Don't get me wrong i fully enjoy and respect the volunteer aspect of the CFS. but think we as professionals should get paid when we go to provide fire cover in any area that normally has paid fire cover.
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I thought being professional was a state of mind? Its not going to happen.
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I was using it in that sense not to say the CFS are up themselves.
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It may never happen but it should. It's interesting how many people think getting remunerated is a bad thing. How can it be bad?
- The community get a service
- the vollie gets some cash for their trouble
Everyone is happy.
Where is the negative in this concept - I for one can't see it. In these troubled times of the UFU aggresively pursuing new area for SAMFS - I would have thought most urban or urban fringe vollies would welcome payment with open arms.
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Nice article in the CFA THE FIREMAN newspapaer about the UFU and retain stations that they would like to see in victoria,people should read and may be rethink about payment....
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It's interesting how many people think getting remunerated is a bad thing. How can it be bad?
What about the cost involved in processing this remuneration? It might well work out costing CFS more than the remuneration itself. $4.20 into your bank account for petrol/food/whatever, cost CFS $5 to administer.....
None of us like going to sit in an MFS station and baby sit their area...
As Cam said, if you can't justify the time, don't go. That's the good part about being volunteer - you have a choice. Not like you're going to get sacked fornot rocking up. If you don't lke it, go do something else with your time and let someone on an appliance that does enjoy it, and is happy to volunteer. But in my experience crews are keen fr COQ - you get to respond from the city (and do the whole slide-down-the-pole thing if you want!) and all the traffic lights change as you head to the job. Brilliant. Volantary unpaid COQ. Bring it on :wink:
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I think we could turn this around,should MFS be paid to COQ into CFS stations??? should other CFS brigade's be paid for COQ into CFS stations???? look the list can juct get bigger and bigger. I think we have hit in on the nail...if you dont wont to go let someone else who is willing to go and do the job......
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I think it's quite simple, at the end of the financial year (or other agreed time) Safecom pays you for your effort. this keeps admin costs down. if you don't want the money donate it back or donate it to your station. That way i'm not out of pocket, and you stalwarts of the negativity will be happy with yourselves for not accepting the cash!!!
We all have our opinion on the subject, and we could go on forever. Let's agree to disagree and move on. Next topic?
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Just where is this money meant to come from?
It would seem to me that both the MFS & CFS budgets are stretched. Unless you propose to raise the ESL Minister?
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Just where is this money meant to come from?
Yeah, good point. SHOW ME THE MONEY!! :lol:
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I think it is clear that the government can find the money if it's required. How else can they propose to grow the SAMFS? Answer with more money!
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It's interesting how many people think getting remunerated is a bad thing. How can it be bad?
What about the cost involved in processing this remuneration? It might well work out costing CFS more than the remuneration itself. $4.20 into your bank account for petrol/food/whatever, cost CFS $5 to administer.....
None of us like going to sit in an MFS station and baby sit their area...
As Cam said, if you can't justify the time, don't go. That's the good part about being volunteer - you have a choice. Not like you're going to get sacked fornot rocking up. If you don't lke it, go do something else with your time and let someone on an appliance that does enjoy it, and is happy to volunteer. But in my experience crews are keen fr COQ - you get to respond from the city (and do the whole slide-down-the-pole thing if you want!) and all the traffic lights change as you head to the job. Brilliant. Volantary unpaid COQ. Bring it on :wink:
All except the sliding down the pole bit.. ;)
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Why not RescueHazmat? It's good fun!
Don't say they've stopped that now for some OH&S reason!! :-(
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Why not RescueHazmat? It's good fun!
Don't say they've stopped that now for some OH&S reason!! :-(
Yep.
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*sigh* :roll:
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Hmmm, OH&S, we're in an occupation (yes I know, volunteers technically not, but ya get the point) that involves very very hot conditions, and very very wet conditions, and hey think sliding down a pole is dangerous. Although, I do know a not so nice story of someone climbing a flag pole at my school on muck up night and someone squirted him with detergent and he slid down, not gonna tell ya the ending, but needless to say, he gave off a "piercing" yell.
But flag pole is a bit different to fire pole tho...
Hopefully!
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Who can actually say they have descended a pole from 1 / 2 / 3 storeys ? ..
So lets send a CFS crew COQ, who might get to see Station 20 once a year .. A crew unfamiliar with the building layout, unfamiliar with the systems in place for a call, and unfamiliar and untrained on the use of the pole.. Then let them use it... ??
Hows about no ! .. I think its a great idea that only trained persons, and SAMFS personell can use the pole.. Can guarantee it would avoid many injuries that way.
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I agree on trained people should be using the pole
Definetely no untrained ppl dancing on a pole... :roll:
I thought we were talkin about pole bein takin out of MFS totally
gees, wats the point of being a firie without a pole, i was disappointed when i joined CFS and found out there was no pole...
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The poles remain in station 20, and are for use by SAMFS personell, trained in the operation of descending them.
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im sure its a 2-Day course teaching correct procedure, with theory and practical assessment components
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LOL Footy you're a nut :lol:
Speak to your Group Training Officer about new CFS nationally accredited course - Pole Dancing 101
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:roll:
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group training officer huh?
I wonder who that may be.....
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What exactly do you get told in the training for correct usage of pole sliding?
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What exactly do you get told in the training for correct usage of pole sliding?
Don't do it naked, symptoms from this can range from, some discomfort to serious friction burns where it counts :-P :wink:
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Don't do it naked
Sage advice Mundcfs...
Require level 3 PPE and a vice-like thigh grip :-P
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MFS have to do a training screed, both theory and practical on flash hoods.lol
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CFS also have a flashood training demonstration / pratical..
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Just our of curiosity, how do they build new fire stations without poles? Single story? Fast lifts?
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Single story....new stations built in the last 5 years include Golden Grove (well, Surrey Downs actually, but they call it Golden Grove), and Elizabeth (rebuilt on same location as the old one).
Both are single story......
Pip
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What next? Maybe they'll start sending another service to cats up trees... It could be the end of the fire service!
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CFS and MFS already go to cats up trees,birds up trees(yeah I know what your thinking but we have been responded to those)all because the RSPCA is too lazy to do it.
A cat up a tree for example usually beyond reach of our ladders, and so what do you do out a bowl of Whiskas at the bottom :lol:
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HP line on jet.
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HP line on jet.
I didnt want to say extinguished with a 64mm line :-P
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HP line on jet.
I didnt want to say extinguished with a 64mm line :-P
Could have sworn the cat was on fire, Sir :roll:
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CFS and MFS already go to cats up trees,birds up trees(yeah I know what your thinking but we have been responded to those)all because the RSPCA is too lazy to do it.
A cat up a tree for example usually beyond reach of our ladders, and so what do you do out a bowl of Whiskas at the bottom :lol:
I was actually referring to the fact that MFS no longer respond the fire service to animal rescues - they all go through the SES now...
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I was actually referring to the fact that MFS no longer respond the fire service to animal rescues - they all go through the SES now...
Providing they have changed the database :wink: