SA Firefighter
Equipment => All Equipment discussion => Topic started by: Toast on July 19, 2006, 03:55:32 AM
-
So, does the CFS now call these new medium urban pumpers 'Type 2' for any particular reason? Is this an 'official' name in use? Or is this just a carry over from NSWFB naming system?
-
no idea
-
Why not? You're a damn truck for gods sake!
-
Type 2 comes from the CFA as they built these appliances to replace the old type one pumper's that where in staff stations.NSW took over that name when they started getting them,you could always tell a staff appliances in the cfa in the old days as they where a fluro red(pink) colour and the looks we used to get well...
-
Why not? You're a damn truck for gods sake!
thats too good, i have no comeback. :-D :-D
-
Blinky, does that mean we should be calling them "Pumpers" not "Type 2s"...
Sounds a bit like us calling them "Type 2 Pumpers" is like The Vics calling one of our 24s a "24 tanker"...
-
Hmm, indeed we can't go around borrowing other naming conventions (BWC anyone?) Yet the call sign is still Pumper, just people refer to them as "Type 2".
-
Each to there own but the correct call sign is pumper.....
-
The call sign is PUMPER or in Mt Barkers case RESCUE, they are a type 2 pumper though, just like saying Mt Barker pumper is a DENNIS PUMPER, it's just so you know what people are talking about.
-
I just found it odd that its the equivalent of people from NSW calling a new rural appliance a "34 tanker" or something. With type two having nothing to do with this service.
-
What do you call Stirling pumper? Wouldn't it also be classed as a "type 2" in NSW?
-
I think it would be pushing the boundry into class 3, assuming that the only thing that differentiates the classes is pump output.
-
ok, i'm completely confused now!
-
In NSW Eden pumper would be a type 2, stirling pumper would be a type 3 as it has a bigger pump, the dennis from Mt Barker would be a type 4 as it is bigger again, i think. See the link.
http://www.nswfb.nsw.gov.au/education/equipment/vehicles/pumpers/
In CFA a type 1 would be like Stirling 12, a type 2 would be like blackwood rescue, a type 3 would be like Eden hills pumper and a type 4 would be like the dennis or stirling pumper.
I would say eventually there will be no 12's in CFS, there is only one appliance that is blackwood rescue size and thats called rescue anyway, but maybe we should have 2 types of pumpers depending on pump size? Maybe Heavy Pumper and General or medium Pumper.
-
a 12 would be a small town pumper not a type one,type one pumpers where mainly in paid stations and were pink in colour....
-
In NSW Eden pumper would be a type 2, stirling pumper would be a type 3 as it has a bigger pump, the dennis from Mt Barker would be a type 4 as it is bigger again, i think. See the link.
http://www.nswfb.nsw.gov.au/education/equipment/vehicles/pumpers/
In CFA a type 1 would be like Stirling 12, a type 2 would be like blackwood rescue, a type 3 would be like Eden hills pumper and a type 4 would be like the dennis or stirling pumper.
I would say eventually there will be no 12's in CFS, there is only one appliance that is blackwood rescue size and thats called rescue anyway, but maybe we should have 2 types of pumpers depending on pump size? Maybe Heavy Pumper and General or medium Pumper.
Although Stirling pumper and Barker Pumper are on par as far as volume go (from what I've read), just Stirlings lacks a high pressure stage.
-
Yeah wasn't sure, how many GPM is stirling pumper, i was told Mt Barker pumper is 1250GPM simultanious high/low pressure?
I was thinking one class of pumper for 750GPM and below and one class of pumper for above 750GPM.
-
Your Dennis is 900 UK imp. Gallons per min at low pressure stage, I only have high pressure stage specs. from the HP lines.
-
Yeah, from the documentation that I can find (not filtered much) Stirling Pumpers pump runs a single stage 1000GPM (not sure if its US/UK).
Just... no pressure :(
-
Only a single stage? Any reason a 3 stage pump was not fitted from the outset?
-
Hahahahahahahaha, aparently the pump on stirling pumper was a special, it was supposed to be 3 stage, CFS must have got a free stubby holder with the one they ended up getting.
-
Long story. We gave them specs, they said ok, ordered the pump we wanted, it apparently got to Australia, then they did something with that and gave us the one we have currently. Its a bit blurry about what happened exactly. There is talk of getting atleast a second stage fitted though.
Does anyone notice a reoccuring theme of the CFS trying to save money in stupid ways, then it coming back to bite them by costing them MORE money to fix their shortcuts?
-
Long story. We gave them specs, they said ok, ordered the pump we wanted, it apparently got to Australia, then they did something with that and gave us the one we have currently. Its a bit blurry about what happened exactly.
\
ebay?
-
More like Ivans 'Off the back of a truck' superstore
-
Toast they could give us back our old Acco....now theres a pumper :-D
Based at Roseworthy now
-
Toast they could give us back our old Acco....now theres a pumper :-D
Based at Roseworthy now
Negative, its offline and being restored for the CFS Historical group apparently. Roseworthy have a 24P and 34 instead. Which together still dont compensate for the loss...
-
old roseworth pumper looks good in the shed along with all the other appliances that have retired here in naracoorte....
-
old roseworth pumper looks good in the shed along with all the other appliances that have retired here in naracoorte....
*twitch*..... old Stirling Pumper thank you very much! <:x>
-
well it was stirling but ended its fireservice life with roseworthy,does not matter as its a good truck....
-
If theyre not careful at the Appliance Retirement home, they may find the Pump missing one morning...
-
Hey Toast,
Was a damn good appliance the old Acco many a memorable time at Stirling of driving it, and the pump well superb :-(
-
Toast they could give us back our old Acco....now theres a pumper :-D
Based at Roseworthy now
haha, wasn't that that ex MFS beast you guys had for a while? that truck looked awesome.
-
]haha, wasn't that that ex MFS beast you guys had for a while? that truck looked awesome.
No, they are talking about the pumper Stirling had before they got the Isuzu 950... when the new Stirling pumper was offline, we had an MFS Acco replacement, but it was different to the old Stirling pumper ;)
-
Photos?
-
Photos?
(http://content.imagesocket.com/images/StirlingPumper_Internationald87.jpg) (http://imagesocket.com/view/StirlingPumper_Internationald87.jpg)
Click for (slightly) bigger.
-
]haha, wasn't that that ex MFS beast you guys had for a while? that truck looked awesome.
No, they are talking about the pumper Stirling had before they got the Isuzu 950... when the new Stirling pumper was offline, we had an MFS Acco replacement, but it was different to the old Stirling pumper ;)
950 ?
-
950 ?
Isuzu FVD950crew - the make and model of the current Stirling pumper...
-
hmmm looks good....
-
looks like a yankee truck
-
No, no, no, PF - Yankee trucks look like the old Stirling Pumper!
IIRC that pumper was built in New Zealand, specifically for the brigade, and shipped over to Melbourne. It had its first fire on the drive to Adelaide when it came across a vehicle fire of some sort. At the time it was the best pumping appliance in the CFS and also the most expensive...
-
yeah thats what I mean, the one in the picture.
-
yeah thats what I mean, the one in the picture.
I know that's what you meant... I meant what I said too... :?
-
According to the latest Volunteer mag there are 2 to be built this year, wonder who the lucky ones are?
-
Woodside????(lolololololol)
-
Murray Bridge and i think we should run a pool on who will get the second :wink: anyone with any inside info??
-
How about a brigade in suburban Adelaide that is running a 24 year old pumper??
-
Salisbury dont have a 24 year old pumper :-P
-
Burnside?
-
Burnside?
Can't be... Their pumper has got to be older than that... :P
-
Ok,I think the new pumpers will go to (a) murray bridge (b ) morphett vale (c) burnside..... and no this is not inside info....
-
Why Morphett Vale, Salisbury need one before they do.
Seriously salisbury need a proper pumper as a lot of their response area is urban and a pumper will aid them with their constant work with the MFS and the fact they go to a lot of structure fires.
Seems almost a given that Murray Bridge is gonna get the other one apparently.
-
I think TTG will be way up on the list for a new pumper, firstly they don't have one, and instead they have battlestar galaticia.
-
They've got their little canter one don't know what the pumping capacity is on it though.
One brigade that isn't that busy but should have a 34P or Type 2 would have to be Ceduna they've got some seriously big risks in that town and sometimes trigger happy locals :wink:
-
Why Morphett Vale, Salisbury need one before they do.
Seriously salisbury need a proper pumper as a lot of their response area is urban and a pumper will aid them with their constant work with the MFS and the fact they go to a lot of structure fires.
Seems almost a given that Murray Bridge is gonna get the other one apparently.
na, the morph need one. their 24p can't do it all.
i vote a)murray bridge b)the morph c)burnside d)salisbury
-
at least morphett vale dont have to carry rcr gear on theirs.
-
the rumour i heard was Murray Bridge and Burnside...
i dont see why morphett vale would be so lucky, although i do believe they are worthy....
mattB and Skirkmoe might know....
-
Isn't the problem that CFS pumpers need to be able to atttend bushfires as well? If they didnt why not get new Scanias since they are a tried and true applience and we already have the mantaince facilities in SA.
-
because scanias cost twice as much (at least...)
CFS pumpers attend grassies mainly for asset protection if anything... same as MFS appliances, saw more than a few of those at Mt Osmond
-
the rumour i heard was Murray Bridge and Burnside...
Makes you wonder why Burnside. No real area to speak of. Places like Morphett Vale, Salisbury etc have far more risks in the respective areas.
(And you cant use "cause they back up the MFS" so do the above mentioned brigades on a regular basis)
-
oh well, got the argument in for Salisbury first.
-
Makes you wonder why Burnside. No real area to speak of. Places like Morphett Vale, Salisbury etc have far more risks in the respective areas.
A little bit of info about the Morphett Vale primary response area.
Some of the risks we look after are.
The BRL Hardy's bottling plant, this is an A class risk and one of the biggest bottling plants in Australia (over 20,000 litres of stored spirits on site)
Seven schools, including a few three story buildings
Three large nursing homes, including one with a lift
Two Shopping Centres
A number of factories in the Hackham industrial area, as well as two Mushroom farms
Over 20,000 residents
Current developments include a couple of hundred houses in three new estates, a couple more three story buildings in one of our schools and a new 110 bed three story aged care facility ($14,000,000 project).
We regularly respond into Happy Valley and Seaford CFS areas (including the new 21,500 sq meter shopping center at Seaford), and are automatic response to jobs at Colonades, Port Stanvac Oil Refinery and any factories at Lonsdale. We also basically become the second truck for Christie Downs MFS when one of their pumps is out.
Our area consists of about a dozen premises with boosters, including a six headed one.
It would be nice to be able to provide boosting capabilities with our own appliance but as we have found out in the past the 24P just isn't up to it. Something with at least a 750 Gpm pump is definitely needed, whether it is two wheel drive or four drive is still up for debate. A type 2 would be nice but we have to remember that we still have some significant rural risks, including the Onkaparinga Gorge (A Class).
For info in the last financial year we responded to 301 incidents, out of those 179 (60 %) were Urban, 68 (23 %) were other (MVA's, Hazmat, Rescues etc) and 53 (17 %) were rural.
Last year was slightly quieter than previous years with the number of rural jobs in summer down a bit. Interestingly this financial year we have already done 106 jobs, if we keep going at this rate we will be on track to respond to 425 this year.
-
Makes you wonder why Burnside. No real area to speak of. Places like Morphett Vale, Salisbury etc have far more risks in the respective areas.
A little bit of info about the Morphett Vale primary response area.
Some of the risks we look after are.
The BRL Hardy's bottling plant, this is an A class risk and one of the biggest bottling plants in Australia (over 20,000 litres of stored spirits on site)
Seven schools, including a few three story buildings
Three large nursing homes, including one with a lift
Two Shopping Centres
A number of factories in the Hackham industrial area, as well as two Mushroom farms
Over 20,000 residents
Current developments include a couple of hundred houses in three new estates, a couple more three story buildings in one of our schools and a new 110 bed three story aged care facility ($14,000,000 project).
We regularly respond into Happy Valley and Seaford CFS areas (including the new 21,500 sq meter shopping center at Seaford), and are automatic response to jobs at Colonades, Port Stanvac Oil Refinery and any factories at Lonsdale. We also basically become the second truck for Christie Downs MFS when one of their pumps is out.
Our area consists of about a dozen premises with boosters, including a six headed one.
It would be nice to be able to provide boosting capabilities with our own appliance but as we have found out in the past the 24P just isn't up to it. Something with at least a 750 Gpm pump is definitely needed, whether it is two wheel drive or four drive is still up for debate. A type 2 would be nice but we have to remember that we still have some significant rural risks, including the Onkaparinga Gorge (A Class).
For info in the last financial year we responded to 301 incidents, out of those 179 (60 %) were Urban, 68 (23 %) were other (MVA's, Hazmat, Rescues etc) and 53 (17 %) were rural.
Last year was slightly quieter than previous years with the number of rural jobs in summer down a bit. Interestingly this financial year we have already done 106 jobs, if we keep going at this rate we will be on track to respond to 425 this year.
I think they need one.
-
very well said mattb, have you sent something to group or region along similar lines... you advocate it well.
-
very well said mattb, have you sent something to group or region along similar lines... you advocate it well.
Discussions are currently underway with Region.
-
How many of thos jobs were fixed alarms? and False alarms?
-
Ok,I have pulled the names out of the hat and the winners are........................cant say...
-
Salisbury need one.
Maybe they should take Hahndorfs back and then MV and Salisbury can both have one.
-
How many of thos jobs were fixed alarms? and False alarms?
doesnt matter really does it?
but per the promotions site; 36 Fixed alarms and 35 private alarms
www.fire-brigade.asn.au
-
I guess not.
-
For info MFS pay $380,000 for a scania pumper unstowed and CFS pay around $300,000 for a type 2 unstowed so it's not really that much difference when you look at what you get for your money, also i would like to see which is doing better in 20 years time a plastic bottom of the range type 2 or an aluminium top of the range pumper.
-
We regularly respond into Happy Valley and Seaford CFS areas (including the new 21,500 sq meter shopping center at Seaford), and are automatic response to jobs at Colonades, Port Stanvac Oil Refinery and any factories at Lonsdale. We also basically become the second truck for Christie Downs MFS when one of their pumps is out.(Quote mattb)
I dont think you'll be going to Port Stanvac matt its been mothballed hasnt it :wink:
-
doesnt mean it wont catch fire still.... lol
btw; there are pictures on ozfire of murray bridge pumper pre-delivery
-
After spending a week down around GOOLWA I feel its time that the brigade's down that way had a urgent review of their SFEC. Port elliot/Middleton/Goolwa are all fast growing areas with new homes/shopping centres/large industrail estate.large age care homes and not too mention the hugh marina that is being built on hindmarsh isladnd along with all those town houses. I and I am sure a number of people who are members of those brigade would like to see the following take place.
1) Goolwa to have : Type two pumper
2x 34 appliances
The 24p that is at goolwa be sent to Port elliot
2) middleton to have a new BWC and to get a new 34p
3) Port elliot : have a 24p or a 34p
a new 34
I was some what shocked to see that Goolwa has such a large urban area that had to use its 24p to do urban work such as boosting to a large shopping complex. Now I can hear people saying get back in your box bill but dont you think brigade and groups should have some input into what they need for their own risk area???? Nice to see that CFs are doing a review of all SFEC all over teh state one would hope that brigades and groups will have input....
-
I like the Type 2 Pumpers, but what the cfs needs to do is make a better 34p or 24p that can boost properly.It would be good to have a type 2 pumper that was 4wd drive then the appliance could go off road when needed.
-
There is no need for a type two pumper to be 4wd as its a urban appliances and not a rural / urban appliances ifyou want a 4wd pumper stick to your 24/34p(part time) pumpers.....
-
I think you will find there is alot of brigades out there that need more then what they have but i guess we can only do with what money we have.
Minister may we have some more?
MORE?????
-
Yes Minister where is all our ESL going,considering we are paying it as well :evil:
-
Yes Minister where is all our ESL going,considering we are paying it as well :evil:
Bit of a strange statement there safirey... would have thought that as a member of the emergency services you would have an inside perspective of the amount of money that goes into appliances, PPE, training, operational services, etc...
-
Yes Minister where is all our ESL going,considering we are paying it as well :evil:
Bit of a strange statement there safirey... would have thought that as a member of the emergency services you would have an inside perspective of the amount of money that goes into appliances, PPE, training, operational services, etc...
True I do, but some groups dont get as much as they should so why wont the Minister give CFS more funding from all the ESL is the question :wink:
-
Yeah most brigades need more than they have.... Doesn't mean that you cant try with what you have got.. We have a winery here that stores millions of litres of spirits at once, we carry over 1,000 litres of foam... It doesn't last long and once that is gone it just becomes a logistical nightmare.
Anything current that has a decent pumping capacity is normally PTO driven, and normally is 2 wheel drive, except for a few 24 URPs out there.
It is an urban truck made for urban jobs..... You replace a rural truck with one you are down a truck for rural jobs?
Fixed alarms and private alarm, well all that i can say is that the "potential" for "real" incidents is their. I don't care that people say they are only alarms and they did no real fires, but it could just happen all at once one day!
It goes the same with MVA's i think in regards to entrapments no entrapments,,, does it mean that you only do 20 extractons a year and 40 non extractions mean that you shouldn't have RCR gear???
-
There are bulk storage of foam in adelaide and most fire protection companys have foam sitting around just in case.....
-
Rumour has it that Mt Barker are getting another one to replace the Dennis :-o
-
Why I thought they liked that?
-
Why I thought they liked that?
Just underwent a $18,000 transmision rebuild so I dont know why :-o
-
Where did you hear it cost $18,000 dollars?.........I don't think so.
-
Rescue 5271 just wondering where you info is coming from cause i reckon it is way off the mark...goolwa??
PF why would you give Salisbury a Pumper, they don't have an area, they live in MFS area.
-
All of Burton and Bolivar are in Salisbury CFS response area. The water plant, fibreglass products manufacturers and many other industries. Probably have more urban risk than some brigades that do have urban pumpers.
-
Why do barker need 2 pumpers??
-
Its not about the truck, its about the stowage. One is an urban pumper, with urban pumper stowage, the other is a Rescue truck, with rescue stowage. Not to mention that Mt. Barker has a rather decent residential risk and a very nice amount of industrial risk.
Pumprescue, I think you might be in for a surprise buddy....
-
Barker is a has huge areas of recent development and needs those pumpers it is probarly one of the few brigades with sufficent trucks for it's risk.
-
hmmm i would say they still have insufficent appliances to cover there rural risk.... :wink:
-
your being smart :lol:
any rural risk can pull the surrounding rural stuff littlehampton, Brukunga, Nairn, Medows etc... or mabey we should get them 2 more 24s?
-
We currently cover,
6000+ residents in Goolwa and approximatly 1500 on hindmarsh island (Thats full time residents, during holidays that jumps to nearly 13,000)
1 100 bed nursing home and one that has just been completed that covers nearly one hectare in size.
Over 100 two and 3 storey town houses in the marina
2 high density retirement villages with 2 more on the way
An industrial area that in the next 2 years will be the biggest on the flurieu
A shopping complex that has 2 supermarkets and a number of other smaller shops.
2 Schools that have 750+ students each.
An airport that stores up to 20+ light planes at any one time with 2 50,000 litre (approx) above ground AvGas tanks.
And another 1500 houses in the marina and 1200 more in another development down the road which will be built within the next few years.
We will be doing whatever it is you have to do to put in for a pumper, we may not get it but we believe we need it?? who knows we might get lucky and get one but i doubt it. We had to fight really hard just to get our 20 year old 34 changed, but will see???
-
Just out of curiosity what other pumpers out there that would be better for CFS than the type 2's but similar price??
-
If the CFS supported its prototype appliances (eg: Stirling Pumper/Blackwood CAFS) then we would have good options available to us. Stirling pumper for example is a great appliance, it just needs a second stage on the pump. The NSWFB Type Two was built for NSW conditions, not SA conditions. Lets get it right, built our own and then make them standard.
-
dunno bout bwd cafs..... personally i wouldnt of reccomended it as a standard appliance type..... some may argue that.
MundCFS - im pretty sure the CFS might find it hard to ignore a need for a pumper (should it be needed) once the SFEC upgrade is doen... when it will be done? who knows???
-
I wouldnt rave about Stirling pumper that thing spends more time in the workshops than the friggin station. There is a good reason the CFS only had one of them made.
-
Its only been in the workshop as a result of the CFS and their attempts to cut costs :wink:
-
But it wasn't even built here...not sure the argument of "built for SA conditions" really holds up, considering that Stirling Pumper was built in WA....... :|
Pip
-
Who says you have to build a truck in the state its designed for? Type twos are built in SA but are designed by and for the NSW fire service (hence being called type 2s).
Stirling pumper was designed by the locals for the local area... If it had been built to the plan, there wouldn't have been any problems...
MundCFS, I'm not denying that you need a pumper, but are there any boosters that you can't boost with your current appliances, or high-rise buildings that need a pumper?
Finally, does anyone know the cost of a Type 2?
-
The current type 2's built in SA? When did SEM move back to SA? :|
Pip
-
Yeah the problem isn't where they are built it is who designs them, cfs need to design the truck with the help of the brigades that would get one and then tell the manufacturers what to build instead of just picking one out of a book that might do what we want.
Re cost of type 2 as discussed before they are around the $300,000 mark depending on stowage.
-
there is nothing wrong with the design of the type two pumper its just that people dont understand its a URBAN PUMPER not a rural/urban appliances......
-
The current type 2's built in SA? When did SEM move back to SA? undecided
Pip
My bad, I was thinking of the 34s and thinking they were built at Moores :oops:
-
The current type 2's built in SA? When did SEM move back to SA? :|
Pip
SEM are based in Ballarat and that is where Murray Bridges new Type 2 was built recently :-)
-
and Happy Valley's delivered and on the run from tonight :wink:
-
And now it's off the run :cry:
-
And now it's off the run :cry:
Not any more problem solvered and it had its first run to a going house fire last night :-D
-
Does anyone know if there will be any new type 2 pumpers over the next 12 months or do you think they may be trying to use 34P's instead?
-
Does anyone know if there will be any new type 2 pumpers over the next 12 months or do you think they may be trying to use 34P's instead?
I believe all the contracts this year were for 34's, 34P's and QAV's, so I doubt they'll be any new pumpers coming...
-
It will come down to MONEY and what a brigade needs if any more type two pumpers are to be built,I for one would like to see a few more of these they are well worth the money and are a great unit...Just have to sell it too some brigade's who want their own home made unit......
-
It will come down to MONEY and what a brigade needs if any more type two pumpers are to be built,I for one would like to see a few more of these they are well worth the money and are a great unit...Just have to sell it too some brigade's who want their own home made unit......
If it met the needs for those brigades areas risks, then yes it would be fine. OH&S and BA issues are the problems with he Type 2's for the busier brigades.
-
So what are the OHSW and CABA issues????? The design and lay out of the type 2 has been around for many years people keep saying the busy brigade's have issues with these??? Well why is it that CFS brigades are the only ones with the issue?? NSWFB don't have issues CFA don't have issue's....With the Penola pulp mill going ahead i can see a need to have a type two pumper at penola as the currant 24p will not be able to do the job of boosting to the hydrant and sprinkler system .
-
So what are the OHSW and CABA issues????? The design and lay out of the type 2 has been around for many years people keep saying the busy brigade's have issues with these??? Well why is it that CFS brigades are the only ones with the issue?? NSWFB don't have issues CFA don't have issue's....With the Penola pulp mill going ahead i can see a need to have a type two pumper at penola as the currant 24p will not be able to do the job of boosting to the hydrant and sprinkler system .
The NSWFB has no issue with putting Type 2 pumpers in its retained stations, but you will never find them in their permanent stations.
Its good to note though that the CFA also use Aerials and other applicable appliances when the CFS will not even consider the idea.
-
It will come down to MONEY and what a brigade needs if any more type two pumpers are to be built,I for one would like to see a few more of these they are well worth the money and are a great unit...Just have to sell it too some brigade's who want their own home made unit......
Home made unit's like naracoorte rescue and pumper? :wink:
-
Naracoorte pumper was made by Moore, and our rescue was made by SEM(VIC) pumper has had its problem and you have to remember this was the first and last pumper that Moore wanted to make.....
Would like to know what the union says is wrong with the type 2 pumpers or is that a union secrete