SA Firefighter
General Discussion => SAAS => Topic started by: kellyp on October 31, 2011, 08:41:53 AM
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A new licensed private provider will be looking for experienced ambo's and amb nurses with uni quals with on road exp.
Apparently, they will be seeking to appoint co-director/partners experienced in amb ops to operate the service in SA.
Will keep an eye out for this one for sure.
Kellyp
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and who might that be this time?
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and who might that be this time?
Fly By Night Patient Services?? :-D
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Fly By Night Patient Services?? :-D
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Hello Shoes 1970,
It appears you have no faith in anything that could possibly a service you cannot undertake. There are many an old 1970 'Jacks' crew members and quasi members who distrust anything new.
Have a look at IMS, they are doing it right, so what did you want to say about them 'Flybynighters Perhaps'. Get a life sunshine or just grow up.
Regards
Kellyp
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And for the one success of IMS, how many others have tried and failed? Not only in SA but other states as well?
Yes, I am a former St John volunteer. Note former. I have no vested interest in whether a new PTS service succeeds or fails. I do not work in the emergency service sector at all, so it doesnt affect my job security.
If it works, good luck to them.
History suggests they wont.
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IMS is a success?....
So Kelly.....instead of attacking someone who really didnt have a shot at your company....maybe you could answer my query???...
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Yeh who?
I hear Alan Joyce is looking for new business opportunities.
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IMS is a success?....
Well.....they're still operating....so far......
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Hello Mister Teddy,
My apologies to Shoes1970 and the forum as I was not meaning to demeans any member with any perceived vitriol. I just stated the obvious, that being there are knockers out there who make comment without first enquiring.You asked and perhaps others should have also.
Anyway in answer to you original question; I cannot give any direct answer as I was informed in passing from a Sth Australian Ambo.
My business is not of any consequence but for you readers I am simply a removalist.
Regards
Kellyp
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Hello Mister Teddy,
My apologies to Shoes1970 and the forum as I was not meaning to demeans any member with any perceived vitriol. I just stated the obvious, that being there are knockers out there who make comment without first enquiring.You asked and perhaps others should have also.
Anyway in answer to you original question; I cannot give any direct answer as I was informed in passing from a Sth Australian Ambo.
My business is not of any consequence but for you readers I am simply a removalist.
Regards
Kellyp
Hello fellow Forum Users,
Further to the above reply I would like to add the following items.
My business occurs at the very end of life. I work in the funeral industry and many professionals would have passed by me many times with not a blink of the eye. I do my job as professionally as do ambo's and firies and was a former Jack (SJA) 4 years (not in SA). I also hold the necessary and appropriate qualifications in ambulance studies.
Regards
Kellyp
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As I'm new to this site I'll try not to ruffle to many feathers in one go. Tell me boys and girls. When your time ends in the ambulance service where will you go?
What are your quolls worth in the big wide world?
Very few end up retiring from the service from age!
Think before you answer........
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As I'm new to this site I'll try not to ruffle to many feathers in one go.
well you're just not going to fit in around here then...... :evil:
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As I'm new to this site I'll try not to ruffle to many feathers in one go. Tell me boys and girls. When your time ends in the ambulance service where will you go?
What are your quolls worth in the big wide world?
Very few end up retiring from the service from age!
Think before you answer........
Your language, 'spelling' and tone is very similar to our medicated friend once active on the topic of privates :roll:
Jobs for conversion and degree paramedics:
Mining and Exploration Sector $100k
Offshore Gas Platforms $100k +
Ships - name your price
Rehabilitation Consultant (degree qualifies) $80k
Jobs for exSJA ambulance or CertIII PTO
Ice cream truck driver
Taxi
Funeral home pick up service & forum trolling :-D
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Baboon 145 has made a good point.
If you feed bananas you get monkeys....
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Point taken all.
I'm in the mining industry and work for a number of providers.
So rubbishing me and my spelling is just juvenile and hair splitting.
The point is.
What will you do when you've had enough, when the politics fry you, because the job won't.
I'm all for national and state licensing of paramedics so that, like nurses there is a register of qualifications and a license to practice, so that the title of paramedic is again recognized.
Currently any first aider can call himself a paramedic.
I've worked hard for my quolls and find that, repugnant.
Having stated my thoughts. I have in the past worked for paramedical services and I will state to you all that my memorie of them back in the early 2000's is interesting. Let's say we were slave labour with no protection. I used to call it paraledical circus.
At that time if you wanted to stay a paramedic after state service, it was ether them or work care, and that was
it. No mining ,no private providers and quals that were not recognized outside of the state service.
Today there are a number of health dept ment approved providers out their, the choice also means the hacks will fall by the way side. As more competition come on line the various state governments will be be forced to regulate the industry.this will take time and patients and hopefully som real court prosecutions.
Maybe then via privat industry, paramedics will finally be recognized as a profession and be paid accordingly.
At present the quolls are not degrees they are advanced diplomas in paramedic science. You are not payed graduate salaries (start at 60,000/y). You are paid wages . I can't see state services suddenly pay an ICP From 55000 base to 150000 salary grade ten which is where it should be if it was classified as a profession.
In terms of mining jobs. Try get one.
There is currently a flood of ex military, uk and us medics and the pay for FIFO is starting to go down. The last job I was offered was 500/day on site, for a 12h shift and on call during the night.
You talk about evill.
Rubbishing private services is nuts.
Patient care is the number one component of every protocol. If it's only eliteism that's the problem, then patient care is compromised.
As a private provider I assist state services with appropriate treatment and good hangovers. Good out comes all round.
I am accountable totally and personally for every pt I touch if I stuff up I loose my house and go to jail and that's what working outside the state service ultimately means.
You guys can stuff up all you want, the service will be prosecuted not you. That's your protection in the Act.
Thank god you cull your own.
Accountability....
This I think wil be a really god debate.
Let's go.....
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I ment to say Hand over not hangover. #!&?@# IPAD..
Sorry guys.
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Baboon should not find it repugnant that any first aider can call themselves a paramedic - it is just a name that sounds cool and has been claimed by the industry as a mark of professionalism. When I started with SAAS "ALS" was the standard for the multitudes and "Paramedics" were the elite. Then one day at the stroke of a pen, every Diploma graduate became a "Paramedic", and the old Paramedics became "Intensive Care Paramedics".
Registration is a different matter. Paramedicine or pre hospital care needs people with many different levels of skill, and any national push for registration should encompass all in the industry, not just those with a degree. - This includes the career (emergency) professional, the non emergency sector - and even volunteers. Maybe then it wouldn't matter whether you worked for metro SAAS, the privates or on a country vollee station - you would still be a professional.
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Check out this private provider.
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So it looks like anyone with $1,500-$2000 to buy a 1980's Ford Ambulance can set up without an Ambulance licence or regulation. Who looks after clinical governance? Who authorises controlled substances (if they use any at all)? What level of professional indemnity insurance or qualifications are in place?
How did this Ford Ambulance gain SA registered plates (pictured) to allow it to be driven on road when the fitting of a red light that flashes is a breach of Road Traffic Act in SA and by virtue of fitting these lights automatically renders the vehicle as non-compliant with registration, Act and regs. (or were they fitted after registration?).
When is the government going to start addressing first aid & event providers "holding out" as something they are not. If it looks like an Ambulance then it darn well is an Ambulance and therefore needs to be treated as such including all the oversight and regulation.
Gillman Speedway is extremely high risk stuff. Only a matter of time before the preverbial hits the fan. Unfortunately someone's kid is going to be the test subject.
Rumour is St Johns are moving away from the higher risk events due to whole of organisation risk. Could just be rumour (happy for SJA to correct that statement if not correct).
But what type of services are popping up? bearing in mind event organisers want St Johns type rates (volunteer services small $$ charged). SAAS are correctly overpriced as part of cost recovery for having a professional Emerg service on standby.
If this provider pictured is licensed and ticks all the governance boxes then I will eat my hat (liabilty/indemnity insurance alone is more than the cost of the Ford Ambulance pictured).
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Numpty....firstly, I agree with the general thrust of your sentiments. I suspect that our charity friends at EMT provide this service as that vehicle looks like their old one (with a paint job and new lights) and the first aid attendants leaning on the vehicle look like they are dressed like EMT uniforms. Community ambulance service must have a different definition out west :lol:
However a few of your comments are worthy of reply;
a)If the vehicle is not driven on the road and remains on private property (ie the speedway), you can call it what you want and put whatever coloured lights on it you like.
b)It could be argued that the vehicle is a industrial rescue vehicle, and is therefore able to legally display Red lights under the Australian Road Traffic Act, including on public roads. The legality of actually turning them on and using them as emergency lights is a different matter and the SAPOL advice is that this will be dealt with on a case by case basis. Park in the Westfield Marion carpark with them on impressing your mates, you'll probably be impounded and fined. Turn them on at an MVA you come across whilst you provide assistance, thereby protecting yourself and the patient - probably ok.
The use of the term Ambulance.....that one is pretty dodgy without an exemption, but then again the EMT brethren have an exemption still don't they?
Sadly, I'm sure that Gillman don't understand the implications (other than they are getting a dubious service no doubt very cheap). All the more reason that Paramedic Australia's moves to legally protect the term Paramedic, and the national registration of Paramedics should be supported to weed out the pretenders.
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Rumour is St Johns are moving away from the higher risk events due to whole of organisation risk. Could just be rumour (happy for SJA to correct that statement if not correct).
St John are not 'moving' away from higher risk events per se... They are seeking to work with the various regulatory sporting competition bodies of the higher risk events that are covered to ensure that the event medical service provided meets the minimum requirements of the regulatory body. Examples of such bodies include CAMS, MASA, NASR and ANDRA...
The organisation is keen to ensure that a sound match is achieved between what a regulatory body requires, its own clinical skillsets and capabilities and the expectations and requirements of the end user - competitors / patrons etc.
St John certainly seeks event organiser risk assessments to utilise as part of determining event acceptance and coverage. Whilst it is still in somewhat of an immature stage, the use of risk management methodologies regarding events is evolving internally and is maturing across the organisation.
With a more robust risk management framework around its event work, it then seeks to create opportunities for the organisation...
I am aware that there will always be sceptics and critics but change has to start with the smallest step and I am confident that the last 18 months - 2 years has seen some positive change...
As for the Gillman event medical provider, along with any other private provider - I suggest that people explore what Professional Indemnity and public liability insurances are held along with the integrity of the providers equipment, clinical governance framework and pharmacological scheduling / licensing and management... (just to list a few considerations)... St John recently (4 - 6 months ago) published an internal memo regarding private providers to its membership regarding its existing members whom might wish to work for them... It wasn't creating a negative slant but rather attempting to assist members to make an informed choice / decision...
Cheers
Shane
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Sorry guys - EMT Ambulance has nothing to do with the Gillman Speedway service. Might be one of our old vehicles and uniforms look same. Perhaps look at some disaffected ex Johnnies who might be running this outfit.
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I would like to challenge Numpty's insinuation (and apologies if I have mis-ead it) that only a SAAS (or equivalent) paid crew is a "professional" crew.
Professionalism isnt judged by a pay packet. It is judged by an attitude, by a skill level and by a general holistic way of looking at things.
I would love to see a 2nd year student paramedic rock up to a job, with someone akin to Dr Bill Griggs wearing at St John volly uniform, and the paramedic student telling the Dr Griggs type person that they were a professional and to move out of the way.
Get sick and tired of the attitude of "if I get paid, I am a professional". Met plenty of paid emergency service workers who are anything but that not just medically based).
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Flametrees. I was playing the ball not the man.
The ball being the provider organisation (legal entity or ma n' pa self employed partnership).
The ball being appropriate licensing, holding out, professional indemnity and public liability insurance for medical services, ambulance equipment/specifications, vehicle ADR compliance, qualifications/training, clinical governance, medical director oversight, controlled substances approvals and pharmacology guidelines and the list goes on.
Didn't play the man .. Although I did very much like the "medical advisor" label on the high vis vest. Unless that is a doctor pictured I would suggest that the general public could be left with an incorrect impression as to what that person is.
Fact remains that even the most skilled and qualified Paramedic is not covered to provide pre-hospital care and treatment if they are out working (self employed or otherwise) without the employing entity having in place all the clinical governance, systems and appropriate approvals.
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Oh totally agree, and I think I misinterpreted your comments.
Having just come back from Tasmania, I must say how suprised I was at the prolific presence of alternative providers, with red and blues,even with things like "first response" and "rapid intervention" on them. Yet also seemed to be TAS Ambulance sprint / TL type vehicles in abundance as well.
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at one stage in tassie the privateers had oranges, but i understand that a decision was made to allow red n blues under disaster legislation which would allow them to assist in MCI, the private guys are not allowed to transport emergency cases (as a rule), they have to call AT comms and get a ambulance, we also have two major PTS services ( ambulance tas PTS and Ambulance Private) and a couple of smaller ones ( St Johns and a new mob i cannot remember there name, Ambulance Tas also have a number of First reponder groups as well
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What level of professional indemnity insurance or qualifications are in place?
But what type of services are popping up? bearing in mind event organisers want St Johns type rates (volunteer services small $$ charged). SAAS are correctly overpriced as part of cost recovery for having a professional Emerg service on standby.
If this provider pictured is licensed and ticks all the governance boxes then I will eat my hat (liabilty/indemnity insurance alone is more than the cost of the Ford Ambulance pictured).
Numpty it's not as hard as everyone thinks.
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Rumour is St Johns are moving away from the higher risk events due to whole of organisation risk. Could just be rumour (happy for SJA to correct that statement if not correct).
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As for the Gillman event medical provider, along with any other private provider - I suggest that people explore what Professional Indemnity and public liability insurances are held along with the integrity of the providers equipment, clinical governance framework and pharmacological scheduling / licensing and management... (just to list a few considerations)... St John recently (4 - 6 months ago) published an internal memo regarding private providers to its membership regarding its existing members whom might wish to work for them... It wasn't creating a negative slant but rather attempting to assist members to make an informed choice / decision...
Cheers
Shane
Shane based on the memo, are you loosing volunteers and work to other not for profit and private companies?
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Heard from a mate in Victoria that the Ambulance Victoria PTS contract from 2013 is up for grabs. National Patient Transport and Medical Transport Services current share the contract for all AV PTS jobs. Interesting to note that St. Johns and RFDS are in the tender pool for the AV 2013 contract.
Nice little money earner for either not for profit organization if they win it.
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No chance of either getting into AV. . One doesn't have the capability or funds required. The latter you may find just purchased a mob called AMT (www.amtser.com.au (http://www.amtser.com.au)) who work for private hospitals running Toyota hiaces with single PTS cert iii. I've heard of one private hospital AMT contract where they charge $16 per transport between facilities !!!! (it is that cut throat amongst privates trying to get private marketshare .. why even bother)
NPT and GSL have well over 200 Ambulances between them. To put it in context SAAS has 234.
GSL (MTS) is owned by a global entity worth in the billions and I suspect have many friends in Federal and State government to support a further contract.
Unless SJA and RFDS can find 200 ambulances (circa $18m-$22m) and recruit a few hundred plus staff there is no point as the market there is already well serviced.
AV doesn't want to deal with multiple players or run risk of unsettling a stable system under the two large contractors. From all accounts the two contractors are working quite nicely and everything is cozy over in Vic.
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Never say never Numpty.
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Re Victoria Private Services.
It would be big news in Victoria if MTS, NPT, St Johns or RFDS has bought or taken over Advance Medical Transport AMT (www.amtser.com.au (http://www.amtser.com.au)). AMT is currently doing bits of AV work and is not known for their attention to detail, ie staffing. They current work out of the Epworth Private hospital charging a ridiculous low fee (to quote: We'll do what it takes to keep this contract). You forget there is two other companies in Victoria presently doing AV work. Outfits known as Health Select and Total Patient Transports (TPT) two very distasteful lots currently do some work for AV and would will quickly fold if they lost it. TPT has secured the Austin Hospital and all it relative area's from MTS under some wonky deal which would read more like nepotism. (Numpty you may be right about the $16.00 trips).
AV is currently seeking outfits to do their work BUT are also outfitting new PTS ambulance which means that they are slowly taking back the work they lost when it was privatised. Of course AV will never ever have total control when you have the likes of MTS and NPT (and don't forget Paramedic Services a long standing AV contractor)doing AV work. Rumour has it that NEPT providers will be doing most code 2 (with possible use of L&S) and Code 3 work, freeing up AV for exclusive emerg calls. Remember the privates are fully equipped to do everything AV can do, plus.
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Numpty2012 is spot on with the sale of Advance to RFDS. There are three major players in Victoria and they are NPT, G4S (formerly MTS) and Paramedic Services these companies always had the AV contracts. Another player is Health Select with reportedly 20 vehicles.
St Johns are already part of the AV displan loop as is Red Cross.
SBA, St Johns do not have hundreds of vehicles sitting around. They are first aid trainers and do event work. They may have a couple of new Mader built vehicles in the country (state government money ie displan) and lots of older vehicles but they are not equipped to operate large volumes per AV. Yes they pay RN's to attend events (which is unfair to the volunteers)and have some very well trained doctors and paramedics volunteers as well.
We shall all wait and see because the AV contract/s will not be awarded until next year and only after the state government has made some subtle changes in legislation in favour of AV (again).
Regards
Kelly
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SJA Victoria has 1300+ adult volunteers to recruit from. In addition they now run a commercial unit of FTE and casual staff (they have a contract to supply medics to Vic Rail stations ect.)
You will note they are now teaching/training in certificate II, III (non emergency transport), IV (health care ambulance).
http://training.gov.au/Organisation/Details/70876a96-d2a5-4c9e-bdf4-5a5c35ee72d3 (http://training.gov.au/Organisation/Details/70876a96-d2a5-4c9e-bdf4-5a5c35ee72d3)
Check out their latest annual report and you will note they have purchased their trial NEPT vehicle, obviously getting ready for something?
http://www.stjohnvic.com.au/you-about-annual-reports.asp (http://www.stjohnvic.com.au/you-about-annual-reports.asp)
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Hi all,
Medical Transport Services in Victoria are fully changing their identification to 'G4'.
RFDS still hasn't released information to what they will be doing with the former (currently owned) Advanced Medical Transport. AMT staff members are in limbo wondering!
St John Ambulance is limbering up becoming a player (they have an advantage as they are covered under a grandfather clause to use ambulance in the short term BUT they would need to change their name if they are going to operate under the NEPT regulations because in Victoria one is not allowed to use the term ambulance.
So SBA is spot on again though I cannot find anything in the St J annual report.
Regards
Kelly
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Meanwhile in NSW
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/ambulance-trial-a-mates-job/story-e6freuy9-1226326524370 (http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/ambulance-trial-a-mates-job/story-e6freuy9-1226326524370)
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So it looks like anyone with $1,500-$2000 to buy a 1980's Ford Ambulance can set up without an Ambulance licence or regulation. Who looks after clinical governance? Who authorises controlled substances (if they use any at all)? What level of professional indemnity insurance or qualifications are in place?
How did this Ford Ambulance gain SA registered plates (pictured) to allow it to be driven on road when the fitting of a red light that flashes is a breach of Road Traffic Act in SA and by virtue of fitting these lights automatically renders the vehicle as non-compliant with registration, Act and regs. (or were they fitted after registration?).
When is the government going to start addressing first aid & event providers "holding out" as something they are not. If it looks like an Ambulance then it darn well is an Ambulance and therefore needs to be treated as such including all the oversight and regulation.
Gillman Speedway is extremely high risk stuff. Only a matter of time before the preverbial hits the fan. Unfortunately someone's kid is going to be the test subject.
Rumour is St Johns are moving away from the higher risk events due to whole of organisation risk. Could just be rumour (happy for SJA to correct that statement if not correct).
But what type of services are popping up? bearing in mind event organisers want St Johns type rates (volunteer services small $$ charged). SAAS are correctly overpriced as part of cost recovery for having a professional Emerg service on standby.
If this provider pictured is licensed and ticks all the governance boxes then I will eat my hat (liabilty/indemnity insurance alone is more than the cost of the Ford Ambulance pictured).
Numpty the vehicle in question is a mid to late 1990's Ford Longreach ex country ambulance that did not do service with SAAS but a SA Country independant service.
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Meanwhile in NSW
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/ambulance-trial-a-mates-job/story-e6freuy9-1226326524370 (http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/ambulance-trial-a-mates-job/story-e6freuy9-1226326524370)
Good spotting SBA....