SA Firefighter
General Discussion => Country Fire Service => Topic started by: Cameron Yelland on August 09, 2008, 01:09:03 PM
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Gday,
What recruitment strategies have brigades used in the past that have worked well?
Or what strategies should the CFS use in the future?
Also is there funding available to brigades to help with recruitment?
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we have found attending personally, and inviting members to join has worked well.
Being a small community, we know when new people have moved in, and usually a member of the brigade will drop round, welcome them to the district, and tell them about the brigade - how the brigade can help (eg doing a burn off)etc, and let people know that the brigade welcome new members at any time....
The invitation is put in non-threatening, and open ended way - we don't want people avoiding us, so they don't feel they will get hassled to join each time they see us - and it is open for them to join when the are ready (which may not be right now!)
We also have a blackboard outside our station, which we use to put CFS info & messages on.
At the start of the fire season, we normally put up a notice, indicating for anyone interested in joining, now is a good time, as a new recruit course starts soon etc etc.
Almost every year this notice has gone up, we have attracted new members.
The blackboard is outside our station, which is right next door to the local Post Office, so people stop to get their mail (no roadside mail delivery out here!) and read our notice.
Pip
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Have a open day,bring a friend along night,look at the local media...I think there is a new DVD out but I have not seen it yet.....
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Gday,
What recruitment strategies have brigades used in the past that have worked well?
Press gangs.
Or what strategies should the CFS use in the future?
press gangs.
cheers
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what is a press gang?
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How about looking at what is getting rid of old members? Why have they left? And I agree it is being personally asked that seems to work well with a lot of brigades
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Members leave for a number of reason's and its very hard to fill that spot once they have left, You always hear well he has left we should be able to fill the spot with new members but it is not that easy in the country we don't have 10 new members waiting to join..Some people in the service both staff and volunteer need to put their dislike for members aside and build a bridge and get on with the job of providing a service to the community.. We also need to treat new members with gloves as some are coming into a community group for the first time and may not understand our worp humour that we as emergency service workers have..... Above all the brigade needs to ensure that when a new member joins that the whole family should be made welcome I mean when the brigade has its annual dinner that the wife or husband is also invited to attend there are still brigade's out there that only let the person in the brigade attend.If it was not for the support of our family we would not be able to help serve the community...So cam,we all have to make new and old members feel welcome....
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Some of your recruitment strategies come down to how attractive is your brigade to new members?
If the general community thinks the brigade a bunch of "old farts" who wouldn't know the first thing about dealing with an emergency, then the brigade is unlikely to gain too many new members (although it may just attract more of the same!!)
The truth about the brigade, and the perception of the community may also be miles apart!!
As Katrina mentioned, you need to look at why members stop coming / why they leave. It may be all external factors - eg people move for work or family reasons, some might be because of someone or something within the brigade.
The brigade needs to honestly look at the reasons for people leaving, to see if there is something they can do about it.
The VSO's can assist with a "brigade health check" to help identify any issues.
I am aware of a brigade who had many crewing issues, lack of new members etc. They thought they were doing OK as a brigade, it was just that the community wasn't interested in being in the CFS.
After a brigade health check, they realised that some of the issue were within the brigade. They addressed the issues identified in the health check, and then went out to recruit members....and ended up with a number of new ones.....
I have said it before, (and I'll say it again!) a brigade needs to be attractive to prospective members. Identifying barriers to that, and addressing them, is a way of potentially increasing your membership
Pip
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Gday,
What recruitment strategies have brigades used in the past that have worked well?
Or what strategies should the CFS use in the future?
Also is there funding available to brigades to help with recruitment?
[/quoteGday,
What recruitment strategies have brigades used in the past that have worked well?
Or what strategies should the CFS use in the future?
Also is there funding available to brigades to help with recruitment?
Dont turn people away for the reaason that they are in full time MFS..lol.
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Wasnt camo's decision uniden as you'd know ;), oh well maybe things might change ey right camo?
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Yes that is a group issue not a brigade issue. We had it out with the group at our last meeting about that.
If that member chooses to reapply then i would imagine he will be invited to stay due to the changing demographic of our brigade but unfortunately the group will make it hard for that member and our brigade.
But this thread isnt about my brigade. Its about recruitment within the CFS as a whole.
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I also think that CFS as a whole has to get out there and do some recruitment TV stuff,we only hear about CFS in the fire season but we all know its just more than bushfire's its about all the other things that we do.
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the MFS do quite a lot of yearly "make sure you check your smoke alarm" stuff on the news. Why couldnt CFS do the same....Highlight the need for the same to occur in the Urban and Rural area's. That would do good promotion of a **year round** structural response.
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I thought it was up to brigades to decide who they wanted as members and who they wanted to vote in as new members after probation. Should not be up to the group at all usually.
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I thought it was up to brigades to decide who they wanted as members and who they wanted to vote in as new members after probation. Should not be up to the group at all usually.
It is up to the brigade but the group can make it very hard for the brigade if they dont like the members.
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I thought it was up to brigades to decide who they wanted as members and who they wanted to vote in as new members after probation. Should not be up to the group at all usually.
It is up to the brigade but the group can make it very hard for the brigade if they dont like the members.
sounds like High School...eh.
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it's up to the brigade,but as cam has said the group can make it very hard for the brigade if they accept someone that the group does not like...I say give them ago and if it does not work out then you have a process to work through so as to remove that person..See what I mean build a bridge and get over it.....
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The most valuable piece of advice in the world was given to me upon joining my brigade:
"You'll be fine, as long as you're not an arsehole"
Easy. Mind you, I can imagine that it is different in an urban fringe brigade with people from all walks of life and a wide range of ages/occupations, as well as a large number of crew, compared to a small town, with a handful of members and a well established boys club.
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Too Easy! :-D
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Hey buddy, I never said that I was fine! ;)
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Seems the swearword filter is set to American spellings? That amuses me...
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Last night I was invited out to one of our rural brigade's who wanted someone to give a talk to 8 new members who wanted to join the service.This brigade 3 months ago was in real trouble and was looking at closing as it only had 4 active members.They held their AGM and new captain was voted in and that captain has been out looking for new members and now has 8...My talk was about the service but also about what CFS can do for you in the way of training and a holiday now and then to KI...Two of the new members want to go on the next KI fire so their name will be on the top of the list.
Once I had given my talk,I asked each member in turn why they wanted to join CFS and they all said to help their community,but above all one said that if her house was on fire that she would want someone to come and help put it out...Two of the new members are EX CFS and two are EX CFA who have moved into the area and have had a break for a few years and now want to rejoin....
So I guess may be now and then we need to replace those at the top and see if that brings new members,in this case it has...For those of you that dont know I have taken a big step backwards from the service but after last night I am not sure that I have done the right thing because as anyone knows I am more than happy to help in away way i can be it with my own brigade or with any other brigade that wants a hand.
I would hope that this brigade will grow and become a very active brigade that it used to be and I know with help from other with in the group that they will get there. Change is good and sure has worked....
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Pip and Bill have both said some things that I think is true for any organisation. It can be the way you go about recruiting, the way potential members are treated (sounds like a good idea to get you out to talk to these new ones Bill, would have made them see that an effort was being made on their behalf) Internal "stuff" can cause a lot of trouble and when it is a volunteer setup sometimes it is just not worth the hassle of having to deal with alsorts of problems. Expecially if you are made aware of them before you have even joined. I really can't see the point in spending money on advertising (and this applies for a lot of things) it really seems to be the word of mouth, making people feel welcome and being aware that it is volunteer, that people still have to work, deal with family and friends and just because maybe you live and breath for the CFS that not everyone feels the same way. Jumping all over someone because they haven't got to some call outs doesn't always work (you don't know what is happening with work and home to even know what they were up to) yes I know we might have a whinge amongst ourselves sometimes but being aware that other people do have lives is also very important
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I wouldnt consider working you butt off in hot and smoky conditions then being asked to sleep in the middle of a the day in a tent with no shade a holiday.
Not my idea of a holiday anyway
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After seeing one of the results of a brigade election just recently, one of the things that pissses me off no end is dinosaurs that are past their use by dates grimly hanging onto or nominating for positions, whilst denying the opportunity for the natural growth of a brigade!
Some people have to be made to realise that a coloured hat doesn't give you the respect of your fellow firefighters, The individual gets the respect by doing the smart and right thing, not his headwear!
There are probably a few firefighters reviewing their commitment, now and for the next 20 or so years to this brigade, because one person will not adopt a mentoring role or retire gracefully.
So now this brigade will not only have to continue to try to recruit heavily, but also appease those next teir leaders into staying the course and not saying stuff it.
End of rant...........for now......and no I'm not from that particular brigade.
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RANT RANT RANT
EXACTLY, this is a huge problem in the CFS, along with people using rank like there is nothing else. In addition to this, people seem to think that once you work your way up the Brigade rank structure, you can 'retire' and work your way back down, when perhaps you should just step off all together.
I'd rather follow a white hat with years of experience than a yellow with a year or two. I still can't get my head around brigades voting people as captain after they have been around for only two or three years, but at the same time, if the need dictates it, then fair enough.
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The power is in the hands of the brigade.....if you don't like what the Captain / Lt /any other office holder is doing, then vote them out!!
I know often it is not just as simple as "vote him / her out" but it should be!!
Sometimes it does take effort by people within the brigade, to canvas the thoughts of others, and to identify a suitable candidate, and then put it to a vote at the next election.
It might also then force the incumbent, with his /her butt welded to seat of power to then step down gracefully, and without loosing face. If you are sure you have enough support for the new candidate, then get someone to tell the incumbent nicely that the brigade are looking at a change...it allows that person to step down from there...if they don't take the hint, then they get dumped!!
Pip
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If only it ever was as clean cut as that. Problems arise when more than half the brigade are in the club and change just doesn't occur. Its seems as though this is the case from the biggest of urban brigades to the smallest of country brigades.
If only brigades realised that no matter what you do, if the brigade as a whole are not willing to accept the new people, the brigade will stagnate and die a slow death of defaults and *MORE CREW REQUIRED pages.
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Well numbers i think the idea of Years=better leaders is completely wrong. I have been on trucks with people old enough to be my grandfather and probably fighting fires for most of their lives but there is know way i would let them on my truck.
One thing i have heard of but never witnessed is when the auxilleries arrive for the AGM and vote for the old member as it is the only person they know.
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Well numbers i think the idea of Years=better leaders is completely wrong. I have been on trucks with people old enough to be my grandfather and probably fighting fires for most of their lives but there is know way i would let them on my truck.
One thing i have heard of but never witnessed is when the auxilleries arrive for the AGM and vote for the old member as it is the only person they know.
I never meant to say years served = better leaders, I was commenting on the rank structure and that the colour of your helmet means nothing in terms of your ability to lead or the respect you should be given.
A Lt. may ask me to do something, but if they have no idea, then perhaps that order will be treated as more of a suggestion. Its not like rank means much across the CFS anyhow, just look at the Captains of some brigades versus the white hat grunts of others.
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i will agree with you numbers.
I have been recently elected to the position of captain at my brigade. I probaly have less experience then then a lot of the urban fringe white hats.
Unfortunately there has been a stagnant in my brigade over the years and the position basically fell into my lap. Having said that i am more than capable of taking on the position.
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As PIP,has said the power is in the hand vote them out,You talk about aux members showing up at the AGM what about the so called paid staff that still hold brigade positions of LT'S or those staff that you never see at training and only show up at the brigade election to have a vote then you never see them again till next year.......Come on CFS wake up and sort this kind of crap out once and for all. When members of a brigade i used to belong to joined the paid staff they where asked to stand down as brigade officer's from the RC or H/Q but yet in other parts of the state staff still hold RANK in a volunteer brigade....
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I don't have an issue with paid staff having rank in brigades, so long as they pull their weight along with the other members, I do have an issue like Bill said of those that still insist on running for officer and then putting in a half hearted effort. I don't consider calling in on a training night training, and coming to calls when you feel like it, or calling in after the truck has left. But its up to brigade members to see this and vote accordingly.
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I don't have an issue with paid staff having rank in brigades, so long as they pull their weight along with the other members, I do have an issue like Bill said of those that still insist on running for officer and then putting in a half hearted effort. I don't consider calling in on a training night training, and coming to calls when you feel like it, or calling in after the truck has left. But its up to brigade members to see this and vote accordingly.
Amen to that :wink:
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One recruitment strategy that we dont see is the HIGH PROFILE we once had.
What has happened to the annual CFS parade we used to do in the city? Brigades from all over the state were involved in this at some stage and gave us a great profile to the public, and media.
Why is this not done anymore, its like we have buried our heads in the sand :evil:
Region Field days are starting to happen again which is good to see and also gets us out in the public view, which creates opportunities for brigades to recruit new members from their local area.
Competitions held are not on the scale they used to be and seems to be losing interest by brigades wanting to be involved.
If we are not actively out there, other than sticking a banner up on a couple of star droppers how will you generate interest, wait till the next big fire happens where the media reports regularly.We always seem to attract new members as a result of these.Why, because it has increased our profile.
Some brigades do PR events and other activities,which can also attract new members.
You have to ask why some of us live in an area where the population is thousands, but only a handful in the community is prepared to put their hand up to volunteer their time.
My thoughts anyway
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Maybe Jeff we could do it when SES do their street parade???
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As PIP,has said the power is in the hand vote them out,You talk about aux members showing up at the AGM what about the so called paid staff that still hold brigade positions of LT'S or those staff that you never see at training and only show up at the brigade election to have a vote then you never see them again till next year.......Come on CFS wake up and sort this kind of crap out once and for all. When members of a brigade i used to belong to joined the paid staff they where asked to stand down as brigade officer's from the RC or H/Q but yet in other parts of the state staff still hold RANK in a volunteer brigade....
I belive that the rules are quite clear about who can and can't hold positions in brigades.
You cannot hold 2 ranks at the same time. Meaning if you hold a position of power up the food chain you cannot also hold a position lower in the food chain. If you hold no operational rank as a staff member then you can hold an operational position as a vollie.
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but i believe you can be a "rank-less" paid staff (eg. State Air Desk etc), and still be an officer as part of a brigade.
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As PIP,has said the power is in the hand vote them out,You talk about aux members showing up at the AGM what about the so called paid staff that still hold brigade positions of LT'S or those staff that you never see at training and only show up at the brigade election to have a vote then you never see them again till next year.......Come on CFS wake up and sort this kind of crap out once and for all. When members of a brigade i used to belong to joined the paid staff they where asked to stand down as brigade officer's from the RC or H/Q but yet in other parts of the state staff still hold RANK in a volunteer brigade....
I belive that the rules are quite clear about who can and can't hold positions in brigades.
You cannot hold 2 ranks at the same time. Meaning if you hold a position of power up the food chain you cannot also hold a position lower in the food chain. If you hold no operational rank as a staff member then you can hold an operational position as a vollie.
Tell ya right now, I could list off half a dozen higly ranked members who are also briagde officers.. - What looks good on paper, isn't always practical on the street!!
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Are they operational. Ie take part in a duty officer position within a region?
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YES they are.....
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I belive that the rules are quite clear about who can and can't hold positions in brigades.
You cannot hold 2 ranks at the same time. Meaning if you hold a position of power up the food chain you cannot also hold a position lower in the food chain. If you hold no operational rank as a staff member then you can hold an operational position as a vollie.
All the research I have done suggests that if your an operational staff member you can hold any rank up to Captain. Can you clarify if this has been changed recently and point me/us in the right direction of an an article or COSO that shows this. Thanks.
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But doesn't include Captain....
Pip
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but i believe you can be a "rank-less" paid staff (eg. State Air Desk etc), and still be an officer as part of a brigade.
Operational paid staff are officers in there own respect eg. Staff Officers, SCC Support Officers's
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I belive that the rules are quite clear about who can and can't hold positions in brigades.
You cannot hold 2 ranks at the same time. Meaning if you hold a position of power up the food chain you cannot also hold a position lower in the food chain. If you hold no operational rank as a staff member then you can hold an operational position as a vollie.
CFS and MFS staff can hold an officer position in a brigade or group, all they need to do is get it approved by the relevant people.
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Are they operational. Ie take part in a duty officer position within a region?
Affirm.
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Are they operational. Ie take part in a duty officer position within a region?
Affirm.
Yeh i'm thinking of a bloke out .........Echunga way!
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I belive that the rules are quite clear about who can and can't hold positions in brigades.
You cannot hold 2 ranks at the same time. Meaning if you hold a position of power up the food chain you cannot also hold a position lower in the food chain. If you hold no operational rank as a staff member then you can hold an operational position as a vollie.
CFS and MFS staff can hold an officer position in a brigade or group, all they need to do is get it approved by the relevant people.
Same policy in SES as well.
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Some of your recruitment strategies come down to how attractive is your brigade to new members?
If the general community thinks the brigade a bunch of "old farts" who wouldn't know the first thing about dealing with an emergency, then the brigade is unlikely to gain too many new members (although it may just attract more of the same!!)
The truth about the brigade, and the perception of the community may also be miles apart!!
<big snippo>
Pip
As usual, Pip has hit the nail on the head. For us, anyway.
Especially the truth vs. perception bit.
Also some community interaction/ownership stuff that we are working on.
Have, over some time, been working up a "new residents information pack".
Includes pointed reference to absence of paid fire-fighting sevice in the district.
Also useful phone numbers - fire permits, capt, hotline, region, etc., summaries of
"stay or go early", brigade info, fire restrictions, etc. 8 colour pages in a $2
display binder. Initial feedback is good.
Fiddling with a specific recruitment hand-out for elections & etc.
The CFS HQ one is, in our opinion, ill-conceived.
Or at least, inappropriate to our demographics.
Personal interaction essential in all of this.
Without it, the paperwork is junk mail.
People are getting better at filtering out impersonal advertising.
Have been looking at fire development demo videos on youtube & the like. eg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwpqNc0Hxig
Very do-able.
The smoke detector message being a natural carrier for the "join us" message.
Oh, and a press gang was a recruiting strategy used unofficially & illegally pre-1900
by some Royal Navy captains. At the time, RN hands' conditions were even worse than
Australian or UK call-centres, and with a much higher likelihood of becoming dead or
maimed. So they'd send out a bunch of blokes with cudgels on the night before sailing to "recruit" any shortfall in crew from solitary drinkers departing bars. By the time
the recruits recovered consciousnes, the ship would be well off-shore. There may be a
good reason why it wouldn't work for the CFS but I can't quite put my finger on it...
:-P
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Some brigades recruitment strategy is to induct more members into the "Boys Club Hall of Fame" :-P
Oh well....
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Some brigades recruitment strategy is to induct more members into the "Boys Club Hall of Fame" :-P
Oh well....
The higher the booze intake, the better the decision making no?
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Some brigades recruitment strategy is to induct more members into the "Boys Club Hall of Fame" :-P
Oh well....
Jeff i think most brigades "boys clubs" as you call them are actually the people in the brigade that want to work as a team and are generally the majority and as we know the majority will always rule. Probably best to work with the majority than to fight them with your own agenda.
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Jeff i think most brigades "boys clubs" as you call them are actually the people in the brigade that want to work as a team and are generally the majority and as we know the majority will always rule. Probably best to work with the majority than to fight them with your own agenda.
Either that, or they are the blokes who have been around forever, have their own agenda, don't care for any of the 'new fangled' ideas and are the reason for the brigade going stagnant. Its not hard for a small number of people to strongly influence the direction and priorities of a brigade, especially when they are the incumbent officers and comittee members.
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Some brigades recruitment strategy is to induct more members into the "Boys Club Hall of Fame" :-P
Oh well....
Jeff I think most brigades "boys clubs" as you call them are actually the people in the brigade that want to work as a team and are generally the majority and as we know the majority will always rule. Probably best to work with the majority than to fight them with your own agenda.
Own agenda, that's a bit rich coming from you,look at yourself :roll:
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BACK ON TOPIC. I dont want to do a moderators job for them. No Boxing Matchs here, Go to Beijing for that.
I definately dont agree with some very obvious "clubs" within several brigades, it can often cause factionism..The Entire Brigade needs to work together and support each and every one. Agendas on either side of the road need to be dissolved if they even really exist..most of the time they are only "percieved" agenda's.
BACK ON TOPIC.
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Sorry i forgot i am working out of my forum rank, better post some more "hahas".
Our brigade has been lucky with recruiting alot of tranfer members such as myself, which brings up another recruiting question, how many here have chosen their new house on the location of the CFS station haha.
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Sorry i forgot i am working out of my forum rank, better post some more "hahas".
Our brigade has been lucky with recruiting alot of tranfer members such as myself, which brings up another recruiting question, how many here have chosen their new house on the location of the CFS station haha.
Thats actually an interesting question raised, particularly for those in the UrbanRural Brigades.
Is it actually affordable to now buy a house in these particular area's. Is the cost driving away possible new members..creating a stagnate suburb.
(The word Stagnate seems to be being used more and more in CFS discussion, perculiar, id rather progressive and self-evolving)
Oh...and id consider this forum Rankless. (turns on some peaceful Powderfinger music and gets back to work...)
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how many here have chosen their new house on the location of the CFS station
Quite a few of our members have come from other brigades and actually enquired first whether there would be a place in the brigade for them if they moved into the area.
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Yes i did that, although i knew they have to take tranfers you dont want to go in there being a pain in the rear and i had a choice of 2 houses in different brigades.... I should have seen who could come up with the best deal like a footy contract - front reserved carpark, new gear, drive every call, free drinks from the coke machine haha
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Or you could just live anywhere...and serve the community you live in, by transfering to the local CFS, without being picky lol...
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Or you could just live anywhere...and serve the community you live in, by transfering to the local CFS, without being picky lol...
Interesting I know of a number of brigades who have members who dont belong to the brigade closest to them, be it for a number of reasons; perhaps staying with original brigade after moving, wanting a specialty (eg RCR), fall-out with members, personality, seeing a bigger need for members at another brigade, being in a snr possition they dont want to loose, etc etc etc...
While it probably doesnt result in trucks getting out the door quickly when you have to drive past another stn when going to a call, if it results in ppl staying in the CFS and helping where they can its better than members leaving all together.
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I had a look at the new DVD today about recruitment that has been put out and I say well done to SAVFBA and CFS and Rag's for a Job well done... This DVD is well put together and its nice to see that a cross section of volunteers and cadets are in it... It was great to see that many younger members are in this dvd and I hope that brigade's will used this as part of open days....
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Or you could just live anywhere...and serve the community you live in, by transfering to the local CFS, without being picky lol...
Interesting I know of a number of brigades who have members who dont belong to the brigade closest to them, be it for a number of reasons; perhaps staying with original brigade after moving, wanting a specialty (eg RCR), fall-out with members, personality, seeing a bigger need for members at another brigade, being in a snr possition they dont want to loose, etc etc etc...
While it probably doesnt result in trucks getting out the door quickly when you have to drive past another stn when going to a call, if it results in ppl staying in the CFS and helping where they can its better than members leaving all together.
If that is the case, why can't a new volunteer recruit join a CFS Brigade that is beyond the 6 minutes from vehicles ??
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Some CFS brigades have their own rules as to who can join depending on where they live. For example within a certain distance or travelling time. Only a couple that I know of have this policy.
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As far as i know it...it would be these particular people outside of direct response area, that may be beneficial for Strike Teams and Operational Support. Oh and also when "More Crew Required" Drops. That particular non-standard policy seems to contradict with good recruitment stategies and Volunteer retainment.
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Just watchout that you're not stripping members from other brigades that need them. For example, we have had issues in the past being able to get out the door within 6 minutes, especially during the day.
We have had people wishing to join, but coming from as far away as having to pass 3 stations to get to ours. We've refused them based on two reasons. One being, if they're that far away, they don't bring anything to a brigade that is already packed with people who live closer and the other being the smaller brigades that they have to pass really really need the members.
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Some brigades work on the 3 minute policy if you cant reach the station in that time you are outside the circle.
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3 minutes.....3 MINUTES.....! ouch. that would reduce our membership from 38ish to 20. All are within 6mins, 95% within 3-5min.
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Some brigades work on the 3 minute policy if you cant reach the station in that time you are outside the circle.
HAHA
That would destroy our brigade. I'm double that from the station and make the first truck nearly all the time (obeying all speed limits and the school zone, of course ;) )
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I know we work on 6 mins for day time crew and 4 mins for night time crew, only for the fact that at night we have more people than you can poke a stick at, so its not worth recruiting people further away if they can only respond at night. During the day, as is the case everywhere, we would rather take 6 mins to get out than not at all, so we open the recruitment area a bit wider. Seems to work for us, as we have the books full at the moment.
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I have been a member of this site for some time. I joined the site as I was intrested in volunteering and thought this may be a good way of getting an insight as to what was involved etc. Wellllll, what an eye opener, whilst there are some interesting and informative posts, it baffles me the amount of whining moaning and backbiting that goes on. It seems some people are more interested in stirring the pot and running others and their service down than actually making a valued contribution. I congratulate those of you who are so negative about the service that you CHOOSE to be a part of as it has put me off completely. I'm afraid no Recruitment Strategy could be effective with so much negativity floating around.
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I was a nice person 15 years ago. But hey, I still like fighting fires.
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I have been a member of this site for some time. I joined the site as I was intrested in volunteering and thought this may be a good way of getting an insight as to what was involved etc. Wellllll, what an eye opener, whilst there are some interesting and informative posts, it baffles me the amount of whining moaning and backbiting that goes on. It seems some people are more interested in stirring the pot and running others and their service down than actually making a valued contribution. I congratulate those of you who are so negative about the service that you CHOOSE to be a part of as it has put me off completely. I'm afraid no Recruitment Strategy could be effective with so much negativity floating around.
If you think this site is bad, holy hell stay away from brigades ;)
Mind you, the ratio of morons to knowledgeable people on this site is about 10000:1.
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If you think this site is bad, holy filtered stay away from brigades ;)
Mind you, the ratio of morons to knowledgeable people on this site is about 10000:1.
So which side of the ratio are you from? :wink:
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Getting back on Topic,We need to look at this from another point...how about that we try and get those members who have left the service to come back?? Find out why they left in the first place?? Or we need to target people who are around during the day and those that don't want to fight fires but are able to help out with the radio/paperwork/PR and so on.. I have just come back from two days in the Adelaide hills and brigade's that I spoke to all said that day time crewing was a big problem and that the other service's in town also had the same problem. So what positive strategies are out there for brigade's?? Should we re install our fire sirens and start using them alot more so the community knows that we are short on crews?? Should WE ALL put aside our conflicks that we have with other members and try and get along for the better so that we can do our job.....
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Should we re install our fire sirens and start using them alot more so the community knows that we are short on crews??
If anything, it will get them thinking about what the loud noise is ;) which may lure them to investigate joining.
Oh and also the grumpy old retired city dwellers who moved away from the city for some peace and quiet will complain in the local papers editorial section once again :lol:
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Maybe CFS or SES needs to take advantage of situations like the KI fires and while public interest is at a high place prominent recruitment adverts in newspapers or other media. This obviously wouldn't help in the short term , but we need as organisations to make use in a positive way of any publicity that comes our way.
So a prepackaged recruitment promo sitting on the shelf waiting for an opportune time to surface might help. Any of you old farts would have seen it, that the new members tend to appear soon after large threatening incidents stir the loins, whether its the front loin or more likely the back loin, thats up for conjecture :-D
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Any of you old farts would have seen it, that the new members tend to appear soon after large threatening incidents stir the loins, whether its the front loin or more likely the back loin, thats up for conjecture :-D
Yep, its nearly always after a big state wide incident or in November/December that people rock up to the station. Its mighty disheartening to then be told - 6 months. A good recruitment drive initaiated by the CFS, statewide in about March would be ideal.Perhaps think about lifting the membership caps on brigades - a bigger pool to have at hand is always a good thing and it lets people be 'summer specials' if they want and they're not taking up valuble SFEC spots.
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Ahhh the old after a big fire recruits, god bless em, they really are a waste of space. After 6 months of no real action they soon leave.
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I dont know why some brigade's have this 6month rule,You should be able to join do your police check and BFF1 all with in 8 weeks if the ssystem was done better...
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A police check done within 12 days, true story! I think good re-recruitment worked!
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How do you get one of those done so quickly, ours seem to get sent off and come back via slow camel to Timbuktoo
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Ill let you know soon, it was quite remarkable...
Wish we could sack those Camels :D
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I dont know why some brigade's have this 6month rule,You should be able to join do your police check and BFF1 all with in 8 weeks if the ssystem was done better...
I think its only in some of the Brigades that are a little uppity about "new" members. I was left hanging for about 3 months, without gear. I then got and old pair of overalls, old wollen turnout coat and helmet. Managed to scrounge L3 gear after about 6 months, got a pager and declared active after 9 months, got a pair of boots issued somewhere around the 12-18 month mark. It was only the fact that I was a youngun' and really enjoyed what was going on that I stuck around.
Admittedly things have gotten better, but you still see the people who get drinking with the boys club rushed through BFF1 and get a pager but others get shafted just because they dont have a taste for booze ;)
I dont see an issue with things operating like this (although its not how my brigade works):
Join -> Police Check -> L1 Gear -> BFF1 -> Pager -> Selected Jobs -> 6 Month vote
Simple.
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I had a Federal police check done and it was back with in 10days....That also sucks how you join a brigade and they hand you out second hand gear and get away with it...I would like to see the gear handed out before the BFF1 starts.....
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I had a Federal police check done and it was back with in 10days....That also sucks how you join a brigade and they hand you out second hand gear and get away with it...I would like to see the gear handed out before the BFF1 starts.....
I can understand 2nd hand gear for the first 6 months, as this allows both the person to see if they really want to be a part of the brigade, and also allows time for orders to be placed for the gear to arrive by the time they are voted in.
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Interesting Numbers, The "start-up" time is really a testing time for a new member ey..
Heres the process a new firefighter goes through, in my local brigade.
Sign up -> Police Check -> Induction Night -> L1 Gear/Pager -> Trains with Brigade until next available -> BFF1 -> Active Firefighter
Takes anything from 30-90 Days to complete the process. A vote isnt done, nor is there a probationary period. Any Issues get addressed as soon as possible.
Its a reasonable process and seems to be quite comfortable for new members.
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Sound good Zippy,so does it work well??
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Does indeed.
Katrina in regards to the Police Checks, i think it may have been a Federal Police check. SAPOL take ages to do paperwork.
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A "federal Police Check" and a SAPol police check are all the same thing - a National Police Clearance certificate.....
Pip
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it just seemed strange the difference from 6 weeks to within 2 weeks.
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Heres the process a new firefighter goes through, in my local brigade.
Sign up -> Police Check -> Induction Night -> L1 Gear/Pager -> Trains with Brigade until next available -> BFF1 -> Active Firefighter
Takes anything from 30-90 Days to complete the process. A vote isn't done, nor is there a probationary period. Any Issues get addressed as soon as possible.
Hey Zippy, As per the volunteer admin and finance manual - once an application is received it must go to a vote through the brigade. This was re-inforced to us last night by Andrea Haigh (VSO) at a recruitment and retention workshop.
We don't get anyone to fill out an application form or sign anything because of this, all they do in our brigade is complete an 'expression of interest' form, that means our operations and management committees can still do some vetting prior to taking any applications to the brigade (we get around 30 - 40 applications a year - dealing with them all at brigade meetings would be impossible).
The other interesting point is that all members are classed as being on probation (according to TAS) until they have completed their BFF1, there is currently some re-working of the application process being discussed with a draft workflow diagram currently floating around of how it may work. There is a proposal to have to vote people in the first time (as it is at the moment) and then have them do BFF1 etc and then re-vote that they stay in the brigade after six months - good luck if the brigade decides that they don't want them. You have already signed them up as a member, imagine then being told we don't want you, that's going to go down well - especially in a small town.
If this all sounds crazy and far fetched then check with your VSO, we found it hard to believe as well - luckily it is only being discussed as a draft at the moment but they want to get feedback from brigades on this so please let your VSO's or the Volunteer Management Branch know your thoughts on this.
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Matt,I can't see that going ahead what a slap in the face that would be...Like so many other drafts that CFS do they never get of the ground...I would hope that once the brigade has voted you in once and you have done BFF1 that should be it,the brigade can deal with someone who is not pulling their weight in other ways...I could see that draft as a good court case for unfair dismisslie....
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Hmm, mine was good you know how to use a radio and are organised, quick police check (have you done anything bad? No! good then that will get clearance - everyone wants your help so here's your radio training, boxes all ticked, start talking and writing on that there radio NOW as bush fire season has started early!!!!
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The other interesting point is that all members are classed as being on probation (according to TAS) until they have completed their BFF1, there is currently some re-working of the application process being discussed with a draft workflow diagram currently floating around of how it may work. There is a proposal to have to vote people in the first time (as it is at the moment) and then have them do BFF1 etc and then re-vote that they stay in the brigade after six months - good luck if the brigade decides that they don't want them. You have already signed them up as a member, imagine then being told we don't want you, that's going to go down well - especially in a small town.
Matt,I can't see that going ahead what a slap in the face that would be...Like so many other drafts that CFS do they never get of the ground...I would hope that once the brigade has voted you in once and you have done BFF1 that should be it,the brigade can deal with someone who is not pulling their weight in other ways...I could see that draft as a good court case for unfair dismisslie....
We currently do the vote after 6 months. You need to be able to work with someone before you can vote them in or out, no point voting on them when you've just met them. We've never voted someone out, but all the recruits accept that there's a probation period after which they will be voted on, and they could be voted out. Isn't that normal for any workplace or organisation?
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Isn't that normal for any workplace or organisation?
That would be Performance Development Review's...Positive Negatives..Address the negatives, come up with ways to create new positives...done, Next.
We're a volunteer Service, providing equal opputunities, but it does come down to: "are you continually doing foolish things (aka being a filtered) or arent you"
Is it just Behaviour, or Capability that influences these votes?
Can i safely say 99.95% of volunteers dont need a Vote :)
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No worries, I guess if it works for your brigade then all is good, I wonder what would happen if someone kicked up a fuss after being booted out of the brigade after six months though, given that this is only a new policy in draft mode at the moment - would CFS back you up ?? Having said that the lady from Seaford that did the training with us on Monday said they also do the second vote as well, obviously it is not a completely new concept.
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Perhaps some clarification is need regarding the vote.
We have had issues in the past with people being voted into the brigade only because the "Decline" and "Defer" votes have been split, hence giving the "Accept" vote the majority.
Go figure.
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No worries, I guess if it works for your brigade then all is good, I wonder what would happen if someone kicked up a fuss after being booted out of the brigade after six months though, given that this is only a new policy in draft mode at the moment - would CFS back you up ?? Having said that the lady from Seaford that did the training with us on Monday said they also do the second vote as well, obviously it is not a completely new concept.
I think having a vote is CFS policy, (Part of the standard constitution perhaps?), but when that vote is taken is up to the brigade. I would personally prefer a brigade specific competency based test, to remove the "popularity contest" side of the voting process, but that would require much more work for brigades to develop and update.
Isn't that normal for any workplace or organisation?
That would be Performance Development Review's...Positive Negatives..Address the negatives, come up with ways to create new positives...done, Next.
We're a volunteer Service, providing equal opputunities, but it does come down to: "are you continually doing foolish things (aka being a filtered) or arent you"
Is it just Behaviour, or Capability that influences these votes?
Can i safely say 99.95% of volunteers dont need a Vote :)
Equal opportunity means everyone is given a fair chance - it doesn't mean you have to let everyone stay.
Obviously throughout the 6 month probation period, any problems will be addressed, so by the time you get to the vote, everyone should be happy.
Everyone needs a vote, but perhaps you mean 99.95% will be voted in...?
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No worries, I guess if it works for your brigade then all is good, I wonder what would happen if someone kicked up a fuss after being booted out of the brigade after six months though, given that this is only a new policy in draft mode at the moment - would CFS back you up ?? Having said that the lady from Seaford that did the training with us on Monday said they also do the second vote as well, obviously it is not a completely new concept.
I think having a vote is CFS policy, (Part of the standard constitution perhaps?), but when that vote is taken is up to the brigade. I would personally prefer a brigade specific competency based test, to remove the "popularity contest" side of the voting process, but that would require much more work for brigades to develop and update.
Isn't that normal for any workplace or organisation?
That would be Performance Development Review's...Positive Negatives..Address the negatives, come up with ways to create new positives...done, Next.
We're a volunteer Service, providing equal opputunities, but it does come down to: "are you continually doing foolish things (aka being a filtered) or arent you"
Is it just Behaviour, or Capability that influences these votes?
Can i safely say 99.95% of volunteers dont need a Vote :)
Equal opportunity means everyone is given a fair chance - it doesn't mean you have to let everyone stay.
Obviously throughout the 6 month probation period, any problems will be addressed, so by the time you get to the vote, everyone should be happy.
Everyone needs a vote, but perhaps you mean 99.95% will be voted in...?
Yeah i did mean that Mel,
RE: voting, popularity contests.... Yeah...I agree, Removing any possiblity of a Popularity Contest definately would improve things.
We have a Volunteer ethos to follow.
In regards to 2 yearly elections, i recently read a discussion paper regarding Voting etc, idea of Competency/Merit based Positions within a Brigade was brought up...but obviously this doesnt follow the Volunteer ethos.
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Can i safely say 99.95% of volunteers dont need a Vote :)
Ha ha aha haahaha.
I think you mean 99.95% of Volunteers DESPERATLY need to be voted on...
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lol numbers... Im disagreeing with you this time.
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You can't tell me that you have seen a higher proportion of people who know what they are doing than those who don't?
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You can't tell me that you have seen a higher proportion of people who know what they are doing than those who don't?
mmm so so, it seems to be operational preparedness that might lack in some people...which means not doing things often enough to get it drilled into the mind. Everyones capable, just the environment around them seems to dictate how much they succeed at being capable.
Thats a very hard question to answer, without offending people. So ill take the 50/50 Eddie
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mmm so so, it seems to be operational preparedness that might lack in some people...which means not doing things often enough to get it drilled into the mind. Everyones capable, just the environment around them seems to dictate how much they succeed at being capable.
Thats a very hard question to answer, without offending people. So ill take the 50/50 Eddie
I'm more than happy to offend people. As much as we are a volunteer organisation, we are also an emergency service. There needs to be a level of proficiency that each member maintains in order to function as part of a team. Rather than vote someone in who is not competent, just because we don't want to upset them, we need to look at their effect upon the team and what can happen at an incident.
I understand that there is a fine line between needing people and picking and choosing, but there and numerous examples where people have been voted in/put on courses etc etc when simply enough they should not have been allowed to.
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I'm more than happy to offend people. As much as we are a volunteer organisation, we are also an emergency service. There needs to be a level of proficiency that each member maintains in order to function as part of a team. Rather than vote someone in who is not competent, just because we don't want to upset them, we need to look at their effect upon the team and what can happen at an incident.
I understand that there is a fine line between needing people and picking and choosing, but there and numerous examples where people have been voted in/put on courses etc etc when simply enough they should not have been allowed to.
I don't like offending people, but Numbers is right.
Some people just have to be told "No".
cheers
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Because if you don't tell them no you can spend an awful long time regretting it as some brigades have found out
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Because if you don't tell them no you can spend an awful long time regretting it as some brigades have found out
As some region 5 brigades have found out and are still trying to deal with the aftermath. As those members are stopping new members joining