SA Firefighter
General Discussion => Country Fire Service => Topic started by: Darius on October 23, 2006, 11:33:37 AM
-
Why not pick up the mobile phone in your appliance?
not all appliances have mobiles do they?? - I know our 2 dont
you'd better get some them, a mobile phone in an appliance is the backup to the GRN radio (now we have no VHF repeaters or VHF in stations).
-
We don't have mobile coverage.....so no point in having a mobile!!! :-(
-
Make the CFS supply you with a satellite phone. Tell them it is for OHS&W and they can't say no... because we all know how much the GRN loves smoke and heat.
We don't have mobile coverage.....so no point in having a mobile!!! :-(
-
We don't have mobile coverage.....so no point in having a mobile!!! :-(
Make the CFS supply you with a satellite phone. Tell them it is for OHS&W and they can't say no... because we all know how much the GRN loves smoke and heat.
yep seriously, it's satphone (or HF radio in some areas) if no mobile coverage.
-
Just because (if?) it is an OH & S issue doesn't mean that CFS have to fix the problem...... a problem may be identified, but if it costs too much to fix, it doesn't have to be fixed then & there.....
Don't think HF is much good...no one else in the area has it...and we are in very steep hills...
Not sure if CFS HQ still have HF.....but if they did, we are only 25 km away and not really in the optimum working range for it...
As for Sat phone.....I have only used them out in central Australia, I don't know how well they go in / around pine forests...we have valleys where we loose some GPS coverage...I assume that it would be similar for Sat phones......?
I'd rather spend CFS money on a heater for the station, to stop the dampness, that a sat phone...! :-)
Pip
-
Just because (if?) it is an OH & S issue doesn't mean that CFS have to fix the problem...... a problem may be identified, but if it costs too much to fix, it doesn't have to be fixed then & there.....
Don't think HF is much good...no one else in the area has it...and we are in very steep hills...
Not sure if CFS HQ still have HF.....but if they did, we are only 25 km away and not really in the optimum working range for it...
As for Sat phone.....I have only used them out in central Australia, I don't know how well they go in / around pine forests...we have valleys where we loose some GPS coverage...I assume that it would be similar for Sat phones......?
I'd rather spend CFS money on a heater for the station, to stop the dampness, that a sat phone...! :-)
Pip
Hi Pip,
CFS HQ still do have HF and monitor it, and the fact that you are only 25k's away makes no difference as far as range goes as it works on the ionosphere.
HF radio operates using the sunspot system which basically means you use high frequencies during the day and low ones at night.
I have used my HF in your area when no phone coverage was available from that lovely bend at the bottom of the hill from your station and works no problems.
State Hazmat vehicle has a Codan HF radio installed in it and numerous groups/brigades up north have it.
Benefits are HF radio is cheaper to operate than Satellite Phones as there is no monthly fee just a yearly licence fee which is under a $100 which would be a small price to pay for a better system
Bonus is RFDS also monitor the emergency channel 24 hours a day
Speak to Gary Bau at SOCC he might have a HF laying around doing nothing from appliance changeovers :wink:
-
Why not put a HF or 27 MHz radio in every brigade station or vehicle so that theres is back up emergency communications in the event of GRN & VHF breaking down
Pip is right RFDS monitor HF emergency channels 24/7 and ACRM SA monitors 27 MHz channel 9 as well but only during daytime hours and certain hours at night :-D
I should know cause im ACRM SA inc South East Coordinator :wink: and monitoring 27 MHz channel 9 is one of my duties :-D
-
I've been told that CFS stations aren't allowed to have a radio system other than SAGRN, under the GRN contract..
-
Yes, and for those of us who have done our basic, it is going to be several nights of complete boredom as everything is rehashed that we covered ages ago.
It is also written in the MOGI and SES Code of Conduct that all members will not breach confidentiality.
Thankfully the instructors are using RPL to speed up the process. So if you complete the workbook & the instructor/assessor agrees you have the existing skills, we just attend the OHS&W day and the assessment day. YIPPEE... :wink:
-
Why not put a HF or 27 MHz radio in every brigade station or vehicle so that theres is back up emergency communications in the event of GRN & VHF breaking down
Pip is right RFDS monitor HF emergency channels 24/7 and ACRM SA monitors 27 MHz channel 9 as well but only during daytime hours and certain hours at night :-D
I should know cause im ACRM SA inc South East Coordinator :wink: and monitoring 27 MHz channel 9 is one of my duties :-D
Why do we need another radio? We already have a silly amount of buttons, knobs and mics on the dahsboard, can we even fit another one? Take our 24 for example, GRN, VHF, Mobile Phone, Mic to crew deck, Siren controls + PA Speaker. Why do we need another radio that we wil never use?
-
Why not put a HF or 27 MHz radio in every brigade station or vehicle so that theres is back up emergency communications in the event of GRN & VHF breaking down....
I understand that if GRN voice failed at network level, it means the local tower is either operating by itself (not connected to the rest of the GRN network but replaying local voice traffic) or the local tower is out of action.
Either way, a field command vehicle with a local GRN repeater would resolve the issue for a long term commitment.
-
Part of the SES agreement is that issues within the SES service are not to be broadcast to outside people (eg media).
If the CFS does not have a confidentiality agreement with volunteers, does this mean the CFS volunteer that went to the media recently regards CFS vehicles cannot be disciplined ?.
-
I've been told that CFS stations aren't allowed to have a radio system other than SAGRN, under the GRN contract..
Stations yes but not appliances :wink:
-
Maybe we should move the radio topic to another subject heading??
-
Maybe we should move the radio topic to another subject heading??
Done! :D
-
Hi Pip,
CFS HQ still do have HF and monitor it, and the fact that you are only 25k's away makes no difference as far as range goes as it works on the ionosphere.
I have used HF a few times...and I am certainly not an expert, BUT from memory, the optimum working range is 400-600 km apart...two HF sets 25km apart is not going to get a particularly good reception (HF at best is a crap reception!)
HF radio operates using the sunspot system which basically means you use high frequencies during the day and low ones at night.
I have used my HF in your area when no phone coverage was available from that lovely bend at the bottom of the hill from your station and works no problems.
State Hazmat vehicle has a Codan HF radio installed in it and numerous groups/brigades up north have it.
How many brigades up north still have their sets / know how to use them. The ones I have spoken to no longer have the HF sets in their appliances.....or if they do, no one in the brigade knows how to use it!!!
Benefits are HF radio is cheaper to operate than Satellite Phones as there is no monthly fee just a yearly licence fee which is under a $100 which would be a small price to pay for a better system
Bonus is RFDS also monitor the emergency channel 24 hours a day
Speak to Gary Bau at SOCC he might have a HF laying around doing nothing from appliance changeovers :wink:
Can someone clarify, does CFS HQ still have / monitor HF radio...I thought I heard something about them being removed, as they were no longer used.....
Pip
-
HF radio was removed from the SES SCC when it was moved, due to the radio not being switched on for two years :roll:
Units & regional staff outside of the GRN footprint are being issued combined satellite/normal telephones. I think portable versions.
HF is being phased out due to being more complicated to train in, cost of units, ongoing cost and communication reliability (ionosphere skip).
UHF CB is in each of the new SES vehicles, but not used in the metro area. Certainly not covered in the new Comms course.
-
Yes, the CFS SOCC do have a HF radio.
Robert34 - The outlay in cost to fit every appliance in the state, plus stations with a HF radio, would be Millions... $$$
-
Yes, the CFS SOCC do have a HF radio.
Robert34 - The outlay in cost to fit every appliance in the state, plus stations with a HF radio, would be Millions... $$$
You hit the nail right on the head RescueHazmat it would cost lots to fit every truck or station in the state with a HF radio but it would cost far less to install a HF or UHF CB in every rural brigade station :-)
-
Not necessary for every appliance etc just the areas with no mobile coverage.
The cost would be worth it if it saved one life in an emergency
CFS is still listed in the 4WD Directory as monitoring by selcall :wink:
-
I understand that if GRN voice failed at network level, it means the local tower is either operating by itself (not connected to the rest of the GRN network but replaying local voice traffic) or the local tower is out of action.
Either way, a field command vehicle with a local GRN repeater would resolve the issue for a long term commitment.
does such a thing exist? GRN sites use a microwave link to connect to the network/NOCC, it could be done on a something like a regional comms van but is it? I didn't think so, but could be wrong...
-
Not necessary for every appliance etc just the areas with no mobile coverage.
The cost would be worth it if it saved one life in an emergency
CFS is still listed in the 4WD Directory as monitoring by selcall :wink:
thats right safirey having a hf in the appliances or stations where theres not much mobile coverage would be a life saver and plus they would come in handy in the rural areas like the South East
-
I understand that if GRN voice failed at network level, it means the local tower is either operating by itself (not connected to the rest of the GRN network but replaying local voice traffic) or the local tower is out of action.
Either way, a field command vehicle with a local GRN repeater would resolve the issue for a long term commitment.
does such a thing exist? GRN sites use a microwave link to connect to the network/NOCC, it could be done on a something like a regional comms van but is it? I didn't think so, but could be wrong...
Two metropolitan SES Units have portable GRN repeaters which were mainly designed to beat the 'dead spots' in the GRN network. Baically two GRN radios on specific talkgroups that automatically repeat the voice traffic between themselves.
The SES Units have used them on cliff face rescue to ensure the GRN radios work when you are 'on the cliff face'. They anchor the GRN repeater at the top of the cliff face.
SES NSW have had specific trailers built that are GRN portable repeaters. These are self contained & can be delivered, setup & run anywhere. They contain two GRN radios, pump-up aerial mast and generator. Because NSW & SA are trunked systems, each tower can repeat the signal if required. So tower can talk to another tower until it find a better way (be it microwave or cable)
If you had a crew working in a valley which is a GRN deadspot (eg Onkaparinga George, Deep Creek, Flinders Ranges, Mylor, Adelaide Hills, etc) then the trailer is setup on high point where its pump-up aerial can communicate with a tower. The other aerial can provide communication into the valley.
SAAS also have local GRN repeaters in each of the ambulances.
Murray Bridge SES Field Command & CFS Region 1 Ops have pump-up aerial masts. So they can work has a repeater but just with a person between the radios rather than automatic.
-
Just because (if?) it is an OH & S issue doesn't mean that CFS have to fix the problem...... a problem may be identified, but if it costs too much to fix, it doesn't have to be fixed then & there.....
Don't think HF is much good...no one else in the area has it...and we are in very steep hills...
Not sure if CFS HQ still have HF.....but if they did, we are only 25 km away and not really in the optimum working range for it...
As for Sat phone.....I have only used them out in central Australia, I don't know how well they go in / around pine forests...we have valleys where we loose some GPS coverage...I assume that it would be similar for Sat phones......?
I'd rather spend CFS money on a heater for the station, to stop the dampness, that a sat phone...! :-)
Pip
not quite sure where OH&S came into it, it's comms contingency planning. For a place like yours HF is not really viable, it's more for the remote areas. Satphones are still not 100% coverage and you may still have blackspots. If you have to drive to the top of a hill to get signal, can you get mobile signal? If so, then forget satphones, a mobile will suffice. If not, then ask about satphones, probably talk to R1 first.
they are already in use, I don't believe it's a brigade cost, and it's not like the CFS pays normal commercial rates. Eg. the ambos use satphones with CUG (closed user group) so it operates like a radio, just with a 2 sec delay. This is their GRN contingency plan.
At the end of the day, think about: the GRN radio is dead (how or in what way is not important), you have VHF on the fireground but how can you, as IC, talk to your group base or SOCC? (assuming the incident is not next to your group base!) eg. to request more resources, provide sitrep etc? If you can't, then you're on your own. You need a plan to handle this situation.
-
Two metropolitan SES Units have portable GRN repeaters which were mainly designed to beat the 'dead spots' in the GRN network. Baically two GRN radios on specific talkgroups that automatically repeat the voice traffic between themselves.
The SES Units have used them on cliff face rescue to ensure the GRN radios work when you are 'on the cliff face'. They anchor the GRN repeater at the top of the cliff face.
SES NSW have had specific trailers built that are GRN portable repeaters. These are self contained & can be delivered, setup & run anywhere. They contain two GRN radios, pump-up aerial mast and generator. Because NSW & SA are trunked systems, each tower can repeat the signal if required. So tower can talk to another tower until it find a better way (be it microwave or cable)
If you had a crew working in a valley which is a GRN deadspot (eg Onkaparinga George, Deep Creek, Flinders Ranges, Mylor, Adelaide Hills, etc) then the trailer is setup on high point where its pump-up aerial can communicate with a tower. The other aerial can provide communication into the valley.
SAAS also have local GRN repeaters in each of the ambulances.
Murray Bridge SES Field Command & CFS Region 1 Ops have pump-up aerial masts. So they can work has a repeater but just with a person between the radios rather than automatic.
thanks for the info! I was thinking of a portable GRN "site" rather than the repeater type arrangement. Your mention of the R1 ops bus reminded me it would be good to get that to come to the station one training night and do a little talk about what it's for and it's facilities and so on.
-
CFS used to use HF radios only back in the old days and the appliances had filtered huge aerials on them. On of the drawbacks was that the radios struggled to get decent signals on hot/dusty/smoky days making them a bit useless for the CFS.
-
Not necessary for every appliance etc just the areas with no mobile coverage.
The cost would be worth it if it saved one life in an emergency
CFS is still listed in the 4WD Directory as monitoring by selcall :wink:
Is anyone aware of their s'call I.D number?
-
Our group have GRN, VHF, UHF and we are still looking for a better radio to work in part of our Group.
-
Buy some homing pigeons :lol:
-
So when we are at a fire, we can get our message from the base, AND a hot lunch!! :evil:
Pip
-
It would be nice that the group base could have VHF radio access to appliances on the fireground, when GRN goes down and also if we had better mobile phone coverage along the sa/vic border..
-
Why not bring back HF Radio as a backup for when the GRN goes down as it can be very handy now due to some of the sets being quite easy to install in stations and appliances although there is that 100 bucks a year for licensing
But still its the thought that counts right :-D
-
HF aren't that great when trying to talk to someone close by.....
If we installed an HF set in each appliance (around 700, including command vehicles), each station (around 434) and in each Group base no attached to a station (around 10), and pay a licence fee of $100 per radio, we are looking at $114,500 per year.
Add on to that, the cost of purchasing each set (and they aren't cheap) PLUS training every member in the use of the set, it becomes a very expensive exercise.
And where on earth do we put ANOTHER radio in the command car! :?
And we have installed at least 1 GRN radio into every appliance & station already... and I assume we pay a few for each one of those......
I don't think adding yet another radio system is the answer to our radio problems / perceived radio problems....perhaps upgrading the one we have might be good...but that is another story :evil:
Pip
-
I didnt have any training at all on how to use the HF during my short time with the Wattle Range SES Communications crew they just left me to work it out on my own :-D and surely enough i did :wink:
-
I didnt have any training at all on how to use the HF during my short time with the Wattle Range SES Communications crew they just left me to work it out on my own :-D and surely enough i did :wink:
Thats what Comms Officers are for, to train members in the effective use of the services communication systems :wink:
-
I didnt have any training safirey they just let me go on my own accord cause i had experience with 27 MHz HF CB's and surely enough this helped me become a pro at HF operations instantly :-D although i had to get settled into my role
-
I don't think adding yet another radio system is the answer to our radio problems / perceived radio problems....perhaps upgrading the one we have might be good...but that is another story :evil:
Pip
I agree with you Pip and maybe they should address these GRN blackspots....SOONER rather than LATER :wink:
-
It's funny SAAS ansd SaPol can get excellent reception in area's we get none is this because they have boosters?? And if they do why wouldn't it work for CFS
-
It's funny SAAS ansd SaPol can get excellent reception in area's we get none is this because they have boosters?? And if they do why wouldn't it work for CFS
Its to do with the digital encryption and the power of the radios.
SAPOL use Motorola Spectra which are 110 watt sets compared to our GRN which is only 25 watts,however are not infallable they do have their deadspots which is why all the country cars are fitted with HF radios :-D
SAAS have now fitted Satphones to their ambulances and use CUG(Closed User Groups North and South)
Oh well CFS will get it right one day...main problem on Ash Wednesaday was communications and it still is :roll: