SA Firefighter

General Discussion => Industrial & Private Fire Services => Topic started by: rescue5271 on January 05, 2005, 11:07:15 AM

Title: private fire appliances
Post by: rescue5271 on January 05, 2005, 11:07:15 AM
What do people think of private fire appliances that have been bought by farming communitys to provide help to CFS in summer? I am all for it providing that all those on the appliances are dressed to level one gear and know what they are doing. I would like to see the CFS introduce a guide book for private units giving them the correct information on who/what and where to report to. The CFA (Vic) have just done this guide book and its not too bad something that we (cfs) could also do.

Remember all the water you can get helps put out that fire.
Title: private fire appliances
Post by: Firefrog on January 05, 2005, 03:57:47 PM
This is tough one for me. In the urban fringe many brigades have hardly seen a private unit but further out there are many.
The issues that I can see.
Comms
Clothing
Training
Knowing and then carrying out the incident management plan
Accountablity

Of course it is the locals right to assist and CFS can never protect every property so private units are good in that regard. I just don't know how best to manage them on the fireground.
If the actions of private units didn't have any potential to impact on CFS safety then we could just let them do their thing. But I think some management is needed.
I have a lot of questions few answers. Does anyone have case studies on it working well?
Title: hmmm
Post by: Macca on January 05, 2005, 10:16:38 PM
Hi guys as a new bloke to SA I can see a lot of fall backs of a private appliance attending a fire such as insurance, training, and a crew manning that truck, when the original crew is stood down  it is a great idea to do it but in the long run what happens if someone is injured 8)
Title: Private Units
Post by: kat on January 06, 2005, 08:31:45 AM
All good issues raised - but how do we stop them? We would have no hope of enforcing any ban even if we were to face the ire of the community by imposing one. And as Blinky pointed out - the extra water is great ('specially if someone slings them a litre or two of A Class foam). And the farmers units have been great front line attack and certainly reduced the scale of a few recent jobs I've been to started by farm machinery. But there is no doubt that there can be some negatives :!:
So perhaps the happy medium is to try to work in together and provide them some information and education. The handbook sounds like its worth a try. Our Council fire prevention leaflet tells local farmers to wear appropriate clothing and report to the fire service (on UHF - we had to buy one  :) ) Anyone out there got an integrated approach working?
Title: private fire appliances
Post by: corocfs on February 10, 2005, 03:48:37 PM
i think the events of black tuesday definitely highlighted some problems with private units...
people fighting fires NEED training, protective clothing, the right equipment and the ability to communicate with the cfs to make sure they r used/being affective..

however there is also no doubt at all that in some areas they are vital for knocking a fire down quickly
Title: private fire appliances
Post by: strikeathird on February 13, 2005, 04:23:29 PM
Private Units (often farmers, and there utes with water tank and pump)  are often the only thing in remote locations which prevent/ totally stop some grass / scrub / crop fires. etc.  I heard that during the Mallala fires a while ago, there was at least 5 private farm units to each CFS appliance....
Title: private unit's
Post by: rescue5271 on February 14, 2005, 05:55:08 AM
I am of to a group meeting this week and the matter of private units will come up,I am all for these unit's providing they met a standard of sorts that cover the following. All members where basic level one gear,they train to level one,they have UHF radios so that they can contact the command car but above all work as part of a team rather than on their own.

There is no way that we can ban them from the fire ground and so I understand that the FS is in the process of doing a hand book just for private units like the CFA one. The other point that I wanted to make is that private units should not have red and blue flashing lights and siren as this is the wrong image that the public dont need to see as they will think thta private units are the CFS as has been the case here in region 5
Title: private fire appliances
Post by: Good times on February 14, 2005, 04:07:30 PM
Yes Bill a very bad idea for them to be running red and blues and siren, people see white they assume CFS, maybe an amber set of lights to at least have some sort of warning, but thats it.
Title: Private Units
Post by: firefighter_sa on April 25, 2005, 10:19:59 AM
Hi there all

There is good and bad issues with private units.  There is already a CFS standard a private unit has to meet before assisting.  

In our area with the national parks the private units are paramount with the majority of incidents.  For Example - a fire in the Hills South of Melrose early in the year private units out numbered the CFS fleet by 2:1 - some time cordinating them possed other problems.

Obviousley it would be difficult to check private units for standards whilst on the fireground - so we do it this way.

Prior to the start of the fire danger season we have a information night followed with a BBQ - the soul purpose is to notify the standards (its all common sense stuff) they are to required to meet with there vehicles whilst on the fireground.  The discussion durring the evening also keeps them up to date with changes and we strongly strongly enforce they notify base before leaving so we can keep a record who is on the fire ground.

Thanks

Wayne
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: Good times on June 16, 2005, 04:11:58 PM
How many brigade members in these rural area's take the private unit first and does this impact the brigade response, would it be of more benefit to have perhaps a tanker in the area looked after by CFS than a 24 or 34, if the appliance is not really of use. Or would some slip ons paid for by CFS be of more use?
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: rescue5271 on August 19, 2005, 07:48:21 AM
A tanker what is that good times :? There are no CFS tankers in region five we have to ask the council for a loan of their tanker so as you can see there is a need to use private fire appliances as long as people are trained and have correct PPC for fire ground.
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: strikeathird on August 19, 2005, 01:41:14 PM
I think Good Times meant that if its better for private units to respond, then they should be given the equipment, and some one rock up in a Tanker to provide water.

We wil never know, as they are no longer on list.
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: oz fire on August 19, 2005, 03:06:50 PM
I would like to see CFS survive and combat allot of the fires across SA without private units!!!!!!!!!!

Our chances are not very good.

Through the Adelaide Hills, no major dramas, theres a fire station every 5 - 10km. Get out a bit and theres a station every 30+ km and this is where private units are worth their weight in gold.

It is important to note though, that for them to be covered by CFS insurance, they must be operating with the incident controllers authority - hence they need to log on via radio (usually UHF) and as previous stated most do abide by a code of practice that has been around for a long time and as per Wayne's example, many areas of the state have info days/nights, to brief the farmers/community what they MUST do and what they can expect.

As for running around with red or blue lights or a siren - this contravenes the road traffic act and if they are impersonating a fire service they contravene at CF Act - so I would think, as has occurred previously in various areas of SA that would be quickly stamped out!!!
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: TillerMan on August 19, 2005, 10:18:13 PM
I do think that private units should have some sort of warning/safety lights. most end up on or near roads at some point and should have an amber flashing light of some sort. Almost everyone doing anything needs to have an amber flashing light these days. That way you can ensure the bombers know where they are and they can be seen at night time.
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: rescue5271 on August 20, 2005, 08:54:08 PM
The private units that on the VIC side of our border all have a amber light and are ex CFA tanker's still in good condition. Yes they need some form of warning device as they do work along road ways but must of all they should all meet before summer with local CFS group and go over the does and donts while on the fire ground. Its fair to say that most private units belong to community groups whos members are trainned CFS members but there is still room for training these people..
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: mengcfs on August 22, 2005, 02:31:47 PM
As stated before there is a CFS standard for private units. They are meant to contact the Brigade/Group controlling the incident to say that they are actually on the fire ground assisting, but how on earth do we Police it :?
Adam
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: firefighter_sa on August 22, 2005, 03:52:53 PM
There is a standard for private fire appliances - as for how you police it - we do the following.

Prior to the start of the fire danger season we have a BBQ at the station and its publicly advertised throughout the Group.  At this social evening each vehicle is checked.

When I say the word check - its a safety thing, ensure the tank is secured to the vehicle, the pumps not rolling around the back of the vehicle wedged in a old tyre (If anyones been at a big rural incident before they know what I am talking about)

Its also strongly voiced during the meeting-BBQ they have to call the Group Base before heading to the fire ground (A T card is filled out and placed on the board) they are also told to let the Officer in Charge on the fire ground know they are at the fire ground - and to be tasked to a job.

Communications on the fire grounds is also explained - usually we dedicate a UHF channel or two if needed.

This is all explained at the meeting - the reasons why - and its also an insurance issue as well.

I must admit this is a rural setting with big national parks all around - big fire risks during the summer.  As for a setting in the Adelaide Hills for example - this is a little different?

I just would like to point out these little rural Firefighters do a mighty job and some times are underestimated on the fireground.

Thanks for reading

Wayne
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: mengcfs on August 22, 2005, 04:22:34 PM
That is great in theory. I can assure you (in our area anyway) that the community minded farmer come firefighter is only worried about one thing. Putting the fire on his/her property out, or stopping it from entering his/her property. Copious amounts of education will not enter the mind of the good spirited farmer when the "heat is on". If these very helpful private units wish to enter the fireground so be it, but on their head be it.
Adam
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: oz fire on August 23, 2005, 01:00:01 PM
Lads - settle - but as with anything in CFS what works at Wilmington won't always work at Meningie just as what works at Tailem Bend may not work at Stirling North!!

The principle is though - that if the farmer wants the protection (legal) and insurance that CFS provides, they need to meet the CFS requirements - now it's a hard line to follow, but even a man on the land in the heat of a fire want insurance should he roll his ute, or get it caught in the fire etc.

The problem is how CFS gets this through to the farmers/privateers who are assisting.

Adam maybe speak with Coonalpyn Group and see how they and Tatiara went with the Bee Keepers - they have a great system now in place and I think they are going to try this for fires on and off of Ngarkat????

All said and done - again a brigade by brigade effort is ALLOT of work, maybe Regional Operations Committees could take the work and in conjunction with Regional Prevention officers be proactive - allowing brigades to focus on their daily business :-D
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: strikeathird on August 24, 2005, 01:36:28 AM
Wayne, thats a fantastic way of preparing the people before F/Danger season.

Adam, wayne is talking about a heavily RURAL area, where all the farmers etc pitch in during a fire, with the local CFS, because they know if they don't, No force in the world will stop the fire that develops.  It is different out there than it is towards the city.

Fair enough, that would never work in the adelaide hills.  And it shouldn't have too, with all the resources available.

But when resources are stretched thin, I say "Good on them" for giving a helping hand.  And i'm sure wayne could testify that on some occasions the Private units would have outweighed the CFS presence! (As resources are considerably less than we are used to back here)

Different way of life, and different ways of fighting fires. - At the end of the day, as long as everyone goes home, and the job is done, that is really all that matters!
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: mengcfs on August 24, 2005, 11:58:54 AM
Adam, wayne is talking about a heavily RURAL area, where all the farmers etc pitch in during a fire, with the local CFS, because they know if they don't, No force in the world will stop the fire that develops.  It is different out there than it is towards the city.

Hi again people. Thanks for the input. I am from a "heavy rural area" not the hills. It is fantastic to see the private units and as has been mentioned they often outweigh the CFS appliances and provide exceptional support to us. Many a time have i worked with private units and everything seems to have ran very smoothly, i guess i would just hate to see something go pear shape involving a farmer who has given up his/her time to help others (like us) due to the good ol' Aussie spirit.  Like always, education is the key, and when us volunteer firefighters have finished with our families, knocked off work, walked the dog, returned from a CFS incident, eaten on the run to a CFS meeting and grown an extra pair of hands we maybe able to deliver it.
As long as EVERYONE stays safe.
Adam
(passionate about the volunteer spirit, hates red tape, but deals with it)
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: rescue5271 on August 25, 2005, 07:51:21 AM
I did read some where that any private unit that comes onto the fire ground must now have a working platform and not just a stand up in the ute type as has been in the past. Private units have there place on the fire ground as long as members are in the correct PPC and the appliances is safe for them to work from.
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: Mike on September 08, 2005, 11:29:05 AM
Im told there is a lot of stuff to come out of project Phoenix about private appliances.....
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: rescue5271 on September 09, 2005, 08:11:18 AM
I understand there is a working party looking into private fire appliances....
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: TillerMan on September 11, 2005, 01:17:23 PM
There's a working party looking into everything, soon there will be a working party looking into working party's.
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: 24P on September 11, 2005, 03:28:53 PM
There's a working party looking into everything, soon there will be a working party looking into working party's.
but do these working parties really work?
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: rescue5271 on September 12, 2005, 07:25:14 AM
Not sure if the working parys work or just get togaether and talk about life,funny how come they never ask people to get on these working partys other than the same old faces????? May be they dont like people who speak their mind
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: kat on September 12, 2005, 12:47:23 PM
That would explain why I was never invited back to a second working party
:-)
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: strikeathird on September 15, 2005, 12:26:55 PM
:lol:
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: corocfs on September 16, 2005, 03:03:12 AM
didnt think anyone in the CFS appreciated ppl speaking there mind???
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: rescue5271 on September 24, 2005, 08:01:12 AM
Why is it that its the same people on all the working partys?? why dont they ask members if they would like to come on board and have a fresh look, fresh view, rather than old faces with old view and who have not been on the frontline for a long time...........
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: Firefrog on September 25, 2005, 11:08:59 AM
I wonder if it's not a matter of being asked. Often we wait to be invited to participate in something but the invitation never comes. I try to be proactive and make contact myself if I would like to be involved.
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: oz fire on September 26, 2005, 09:39:02 AM
Many of the people are on the front line blinky - maybe not down your way but certainly the working parties that I have seen have front line people on them and not just GO's. Those who go on them though often let it be know that they are interested - hence get asked.

I am aware of a number of times that requests have gone to brigades from the Region or HQ looking for interested persons - I guess it's a matter of Captains or GO's knowing who of their people are interested and also ensuring that if they recommend them their time and effort is going to be worth it, valued and that they are not just trying to push their own barrow, but are looking at the whole service.
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: kat on September 28, 2005, 07:50:58 PM
The same old faces on some of these committees and groups are oft heard to comment what a shame it is noone new is willing to contribute.....
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: strikeathird on September 29, 2005, 12:31:38 AM
Maybe no one "new" is willing to contribute cause the feel that its a load of bollocks, and not going o achieve anything?

Maybe no one "new" is willing to contribute because they are tired of seeing the same people at it all the time?

Maybe no one "new" is willing to contribute because they feel what they do say is ignored any way?

Maybe no one "new" is willing to contribute because they are lazy, and couldn't give a stuff.

Who knows!
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: oz fire on September 29, 2005, 09:56:12 AM
Maybe no one "new" is willing to contribute because they are lazy, and couldn't give a stuff.

Maybe it's just easier to sit on the outside and roast those who are doing it than to get into the pot and be prepared to get a roasting!

There are many opinion in CFS - many of the committee, working parties, Groups need to consider all 430 brigades, not just our own individual brigades.

If you want ot go on them, then put your hand up , have a go!
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: Robert-Robert34 on September 29, 2005, 09:41:42 PM
I'm a fire fighter with the CFS in Kalangadoo and when ever we get a call out to a grass or scrub fire near Kalangadoo there is at least 3 or 4 private fire units already combating the fire prior to our brigades arrival

Private Fire Units are the backbone of the CFS if we didn't have these units our chances of knocking down a real big fire in scrub land shortly after it starts isn't very good regardless of how many brigades are on scene and plus these private 14 units can go some places where normal 34 or 24 CFS trucks cant go
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: strikeathird on September 29, 2005, 10:54:15 PM
True that !
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: rescue5271 on September 30, 2005, 07:41:42 AM
With sumer now not too far  away and with the two scrub fires that we have had private units will be very handy for us to use them at jobs, As long as they have correct ppe and now something about fire but above all make contact with people so as we know they are there rather than just show up and do what they want.....Yes they are the backbone as this is how most fire services started ....
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: Robert-Robert34 on September 30, 2005, 04:43:19 PM
A wildfire which happened on the Kalangadoo-Glencoe a few years back was spotted by farmers in that vicinity who responded and restricted it to burning so many paddocks and a hayshed... think about what would have happened if these private fire units were non existent Kalangadoo and Glencoe would have been wiped out by this fire in a matter of hours

I would like to also note that when the call of duty was sent out for CFS fire crews to respond at the same time private fire units from other farms around the district also came to help out therefore proving that in a way these farm fire fighters are the real unsung heroes
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: Robert-Robert34 on February 07, 2006, 05:23:39 PM
This topic has been gathering cobwebs for 5 1/2 months so i reckon we should reignite the subject of privately owned fire units just to keep it active

During last month we had many fires around South Australia started by either lighting,machinery or arsonists which burnt out loads of scrub & grassland....every second day while watching National Nine News privately owned fire units popped up on the screen at a grass fire either putting it out or mopping up

It seems that quick attack units are becoming more increasingly popular when it comes to dealing with grass fires even though these slip on units only carry 400 or 600 litres of water they are still good for putting out the head of a grass or scrub fire

What are everyone else's thoughts
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: CyberCitizen on February 08, 2006, 07:22:47 AM
They Are Great Little Units & Can Be A Valuable Resource, Providing That Adequate Training Is Provided & The Operators Follow All Instructions Given To Them, We Can't Have Cow Boys On The Fire Ground Thats Our Job. (Sarcasm) :-D
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: CaptCom on February 08, 2006, 07:37:54 AM
I agree with Cyber...the private units are valuable PROVIDED that they work with us, are appropriately dressed and follow instruction..we have had a lot of criticism from this group following Black Tuesday and we are trialling a system that incorporates them, using magnetic numbers for doors etc...we also have a few problems with them all sitting around watching us work..my crew are landowners and vollies too...when they start this caper, we leave and hand it back to them.

We also have problems with them not being appropriately attired..eg CFS jacket, board shorts and no shoes on the back of a ute...and they would expect to be covered by our insurance if they get hurt...
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: Robert-Robert34 on February 08, 2006, 08:15:30 AM
Very true Capt Com the crews who man these quick attack units should be properly dressed for combating grass fires but there are a few landowners who's crews outfit themselves with PPE e.g Work Overalls and safety helmets or cowboy hats

I know this may seem abit silly but im in the progress of designing my own quick attack unit however i am taking my time with gathering equipment and the right kinda vehicle  :-D
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: strikeathird on February 08, 2006, 12:25:44 PM
Helmets or cowboyhats...     :lol:
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: Robert-Robert34 on February 08, 2006, 04:31:04 PM
When i get my quick attack built im gonna have my own coloured overalls possibly dark orange or light green coloured along with a fire helmet (same style as CFS but with no logo on it)
 :-D
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: kat on February 08, 2006, 04:38:30 PM
the private units are valuable PROVIDED that they work with us, are appropriately dressed and follow instruction..we have had a lot of criticism from this group following Black Tuesday

This must be so frustrating. This sector does seem quick to knock the CFS. Then they're the ones who think we're being over the top (control freak tossers) when we request to know where they are, how we can communicate with them, offer them radios, foam, proper clothing. They often work contrary to the overall aim, and, as you say, sit and watch us in mop up phase (perhaps loudly commenting on how we stuffed it all up).

I wonder how we would go if we needed to remove them from a fireground though (particularly if it was their property). I don't know that it's logsitically posssible. I'm sure our local cops wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot barge pole!
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: CaptCom on February 09, 2006, 07:32:51 AM
Kat, I believe it's one of those situations that is going to find it hard to please everyone...but we are making a Code that they will sign which is their agreeance to abide by what we ask...you need to look at who they are..mostly they are often NOT CFS members and so they think we are all tossers anyway and often over the top...interesting that the 2 firefighters that lost their lives were in a farmer unit...makes you wonder what we go on about really..
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: strikeathird on February 10, 2006, 11:05:19 AM
When i get my quick attack built im gonna have my own coloured overalls possibly dark orange or light green coloured along with a fire helmet (same style as CFS but with no logo on it)
 :-D

Vigilante fire service mate.. Probably not the best idea!
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: Robert-Robert34 on February 10, 2006, 12:59:03 PM
Its not gonna be a vigilante fire service strikeathird as im actually thinking about providinhg fire cover to landowners and contractors who dont have their own fire crews
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: rescue5271 on February 10, 2006, 01:13:53 PM
robert,before you do that I would make sure that you have insurance and that your units meets the new guide lines on private fire appliances....
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: strikeathird on February 10, 2006, 01:26:40 PM
Thats a whole new thing robert..  You are basically saying you are going to form a private fire service.. !!
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: Robert-Robert34 on February 10, 2006, 04:26:24 PM
Im very much aware of needing insurance and that my unit meets standards rescue5271 im currently in the planning stages of how to design it

You almost have hit the nail right on the head strikeathird yes i am saving up to build my 14 unit but im gonna buy the equipment in pieces and build it my way which not only meets standards but also provides me with enough room to work and store extra equipment e.g. rakehoes and knapsacks

Being i might be going to Mount Gambier tomorrow im gonna buy a couple things to build a scale model one of these quiet possibly will be a scale model size ute like the ones that are sold in K-mart & Toy World

There is no set time frame for the launch of my 14 unit but im really hoping if i get this job as a trainee car detailer i'll be able to have enough money to start buying fire equipment such as a 600 litre tank, fire hose,pump and a ute to place my slip on unit on  :-)
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: rescue5271 on February 11, 2006, 06:27:29 AM
Robert,you can always buy a good seconh hand qav or tanker from the CFA in Ballarat
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: Robert-Robert34 on February 11, 2006, 07:06:03 AM
True rescue5271 i could go to Ballarat and buy a secondhand QAV from CFA but secondhand ones from there cost alot of money  :-)

Plus i have no idea how much one is  :-(
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: rescue5271 on February 11, 2006, 07:27:22 AM
Robert it comes down to how much you want to spend one local farmer here picked up a good 4wd 300lt tanker with pump for $9000 and it goes well.You could always check what the CFS has coming up for sale....
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: Robert-Robert34 on February 11, 2006, 05:14:41 PM
Went to Mount Gambier today and brought bits and pieces to build my prototype scale model QAV.... after building 2 versions i got my parents to say which prototype was best and surely enough number 1 was best for my needs

I brought a pull back white toy ute from Toys Stampede and a small black project transformer from Anvil Electronics along with some wire cover and used my imagination

The end result after doing it over and over again was perfect

My model scale design is as follows.... a 600 litre model tank made out of wood with a piece of wire cover acting as a hose connecting to the pump a.k.a small black transformer with a long piece of string acting as the single hose line connected to pump

I hope you love the sound of this design as my actual design my be different cause the one i have described is only prototype  :-)
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: TillerMan on February 11, 2006, 10:13:37 PM
can you post a picture of your model
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: Robert-Robert34 on February 12, 2006, 06:02:33 AM
Sure tillerman as soon as i gain access to my dads digital camera ans scanner ill save it onto a disk and upload it onto this site some time today
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: Robert-Robert34 on February 12, 2006, 11:18:18 AM
It seems that i cant place the pics on this site for some reason... would it be alright if i sent them to you via email tillerman  :-D
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: strikeathird on February 12, 2006, 04:29:51 PM
You have to upload, and host it.

Go to photobucket.com   .. create an accoun (its free)  .. Upload the photo in that.. (its like a big photo gallery)..

Once uploaded, copy the image tags it puts underneath the thumb nail shot, then put them in a post in here...

should look like  (http://abcd1234)   .. 

Unless this board uses http or html image tags ??   Firefrog ??
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: Robert-Robert34 on February 14, 2006, 10:27:48 AM
Can anyone tell me where i can obtain the new guide lines for private fire appliances cause it seems that my employment is imminent and as soon as i start working a little bit of my pay each week will be set aside to purchase equipment

Is there a website that has the new guide lines  :?
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: Robert-Robert34 on February 15, 2006, 11:23:17 AM
It seems no one has given me an website to go to for the new guide lines some im gonna ask real nicely again

Can anyone tell me if is there a website i can obtain new guide lines for private fire appliances from or do i need to write to my regional office and ask for info
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: fire03rescue on February 15, 2006, 11:43:48 AM
If it your own appliance you can do what you want, it has nothing to do with the CFS
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: Robert-Robert34 on February 15, 2006, 12:45:38 PM
true fire03rescue but it's better to be safe than sorry but the question is do i need to go to a website to get then new guide lines or something
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: rescue5271 on February 15, 2006, 07:27:48 PM
Robert the new guidlines are not up and running yet best you contact the region H/Q and have a chat to the once staff there.....
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: strikeathird on February 15, 2006, 07:52:53 PM
Robert, if no one replied, chances are no one knows.. Cant really have 100 board members go .. I DONT KNOW.. easier for them not to reply..

I personally wouldn't go to all the hassle to spend money on / create and build up a private fire unit mate.. Thats what the CFS appliance is for.. You are still in the brigae aren't you ?  Wouldnt you turn out with them when the need for the unit was there any way ?
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: Lt. on February 19, 2006, 10:03:33 AM
well the Country Fires Act does give an CFS officer the power to remove person or persons from a fireground/incident/dwelling if they are hindering rescue/containment efforts and if life is threatend... SAPOL should and majority of the time will be more than happy to assist with this. but it's a touchy thing to do.
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: rescue5271 on February 19, 2006, 10:58:35 AM
If we all ran out and did this we would only open a can of worms,better to try and fix some of the problems that we have at the moment. Dont get me wrong private units have their place but they need to follow a set of SOPS and they are not allowed to charge or ask the local community for money.. If a community has a CFS brigade they should support and maintain that rather than run out and buy a private unit... support what you have at hand first...
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: Robert-Robert34 on February 19, 2006, 12:17:36 PM
Thats deadset true rescue5271 but bear in mind not all communities support their CFS brigade for certain reasons i should know myself because the town i live in doesn't support our brigade at all 

Whoops i might have said something contraversial :oops: (runs and hides before a shotgun is pulled out)  :-P
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: Lt. on February 19, 2006, 01:50:06 PM
no thats right, as the saying goes many hands make light work.... as long as they are all working for a common goal and are doing it safetly...thats all that really matters
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: Robert-Robert34 on February 23, 2006, 07:44:12 PM
Personally once i get my quick attack unit up and running the first thing im gonna do is get it checked by Region 5 if it meets OHS&W requirements i'll fit a UHF CB Radio & a trunk tracker scanner in it
for communications purposes

If allowed i might make use of my CFS overalls & Helmet as fire ground PPE... this will happen if my quick attack is recognised as a registered CFS 14 QAV unit

its gonna be a few months before equipment is purchased so im looking around between start & mid of next fire season possibly for my units debut  if not then maybe further down the track
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: medevac on February 24, 2006, 07:12:46 AM
firstly,,, you will never get a private (personal) unit recognised as a CFS vehicle.

and secondly, therefore wearing CFS PPE would be a big no as well, and would effectively be misuse of CFS equipment
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: oz fire on February 24, 2006, 08:39:18 AM
mmmm - private fire service, operating in CFS area - slight breach of legislation!

As for using CFS PPE on a private appliance - others on this post talk of MFS wannabees - what is this case then????? CFS wannabees from a CFS member who wants their own truck.

Best solution - do your own private appliance and operate it as just that, a private appliance, operated by a private person (there are hundreds of these across the state that operate perfectly) - trying to mix it with CFS will just add more confussion and BS to a system that is overloaded with it!
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: medevac on February 24, 2006, 09:13:31 AM
also i wouldnt reccomend monitoring a scanner and then turning yourself out to jobs miles from home... (oh god, as i write this i can imagine you going out and purchasing a lightbar and siren for pirvate use...) most private units are used on there own property's and there neighours... with the exception of the big one where the do travel miles to help out...
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: Robert-Robert34 on February 24, 2006, 10:23:08 AM
Thats what i am trying to say oz fire im gonna have my own private unit but im going to have it checked by CFS to see if it meets OHS&W Rules and Regulations for private fire units

Im also gonna have my own private fire fighting PPE... the only reason behind me saying that i might use my CFS PPE if there is the likelyhood of my unit being asked to be registered although that is unlikely  :-)

medevac nearly all private units in this state carry a UHF CB or a scanner and as for purchasing a lightbar & siren that aint gonna happen  :lol: cause im only going to have a simple amber coloured beacon
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: strikeathird on March 03, 2006, 12:06:29 AM
god i give up reading this thread !!

Robert, you cant use CFS PPE, you cant act on the info gained from a Scanner.. You cant / won't be reconised as a CFS QAV..


Turn out with your brigade!!  Don't waste the time and money !

Unless you, yourself, have a property of such proportion that it requires that you take such means to protect it..

But in a fire just turn out with the truck !  What good is the truck if it can't turn out cause it needs one member, and he is scooting off in his ute, with 200l of water, no ppe, and a UHF radio !


Honestly mate..
 :roll:
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: rescue5271 on March 03, 2006, 05:53:14 AM
Robert the new guidelines are out and before you run out and make a private unit I would read them as they are clear as to how you may take ya applinaces to a rural fire but you can not just roll up and start firefighting ... You need to have a few things before you go onto the fireground. You can not wear CFS ppe but you have to buy ya own set...

Robert if I was you mate just turnout with ya own brigade because if you dont and other members do what you intend to do you may find that your town will lose the cfs appliances that you already have...... :evil:
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: Robert-Robert34 on March 03, 2006, 06:57:03 AM
I know it seems like an impossible thing to do strikeathird there reason i am wanting to build a QAV is because our brigade have a real hard time getting a crew during day time hours in summer and on some occasions we dont even have a driver rock up

At the risk of once again being told off for saying contraversial i am just gonna say that we do have a truck driver but he is kind of a panic merchant  :-(

Hey rescue5271 where can i get a copy of the new guidelines or if posible can you send me a copy via mail as i'd very much appreciate it so im able to sit back and read the new guidelines before doing anything

Oh yeah just for the record this QAV will be my own unit for when im out of town out& about during summer time & fire season and to far away from any fire station  :-)  :wink:
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: nomex_nugget on March 03, 2006, 08:05:28 AM
Hey Robert, if drivers are such a problem in your brigade then why not get your truck license and help solve the problem.

I know many brigades will contribute $$$$ to the process, some will pay for the last lesson and the test. It's a win win, you get your license and the brigade gets a driver.

Bring it up with your operations or management committees.
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: medevac on March 03, 2006, 08:21:09 AM
unless you do have a large property robert, i think it is in both yours and the communitys best interest for you too continue responding on the brigade appliance as a brigade member, since it sounds like they have such large crewing peoblems.
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: oz fire on March 03, 2006, 08:54:07 AM
robert - forget the one boy fire service (it dangerous to be out on your own) - focus on assisting your community by crewing the town appliance, that would be of more use to the community and the greater CFS!
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: Robert-Robert34 on March 03, 2006, 09:10:33 AM
Hey strikeathird can you do me a favour mate lock this thread as im getting sick of it  :-)
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: medevac on March 03, 2006, 09:16:18 AM
only th original creator of the thread or a mod can lock threads.
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: oz fire on March 03, 2006, 09:17:55 AM
Sorry Global Moderators - but it has to be said

Robert - if your sick of it, don't read it, no one if forcing you too :-o
Then we may also get back on track and stay focused on the topics posted :-D
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: Firefrog on March 03, 2006, 09:36:14 AM
Please keep things on topic..

I will lock this thread if need be.
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: strikeathird on March 03, 2006, 10:52:40 AM
I cant mate, only Mike, FireFrog, Kat or yourself can lock it.
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: Pipster on March 03, 2006, 06:51:49 PM
Hey Robert, if drivers are such a problem in your brigade then why not get your truck license and help solve the problem.

I know many brigades will contribute $$$$ to the process, some will pay for the last lesson and the test. It's a win win, you get your license and the brigade gets a driver.


I have come in a little late to this discussion, but for brigades having trouble with getting drivers, CFS will pay to train up to four drivers per truck, excluding officers.  So if you don't have four truck drivers, who are not Officers, get in touch with your Regional Training officer, and get the info.....CFS will fund those places, if you don't have enough!!   :-D
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: Lt. on May 08, 2006, 07:54:09 AM
your spot on.. cfs will pay for some of you licence fee or if you live in a remote location ie far north they might even consider paying the whole fee ($110 for test in the far north) thats how I go my truck licence. it's worth the effort. and you'll be suprised at how much the brigade really does benifit from having another driver.
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: Robert-Robert34 on May 08, 2006, 01:49:32 PM
I was considering going for a MR licence out of my own pocket but the cost of it was too dear

As far as im concerned it's better to see how our brigade goes in the next few months as there has been talk that it wont last any longer unless we get more members which is highly unlikely due to our community not wanting to help or support the Kalangadoo CFS  :cry:
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: Darius on May 08, 2006, 11:07:00 PM
my group (in R1, not the far north) paid for me, and many others, to upgrade from car to MR license.
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: Robert-Robert34 on May 09, 2006, 09:04:07 AM
Well i went to a brigade meeting last night and despite it being real fiery over an incident where everyone stuffed up i managed to have the guts to bring about how obtain a MR licence through the group

The reason i brought this issue up was because between 4-4:30pm yesterday afternoon our brigade got dispatched to a fire at CHH Nangwarry below are the pager messages

1909366 16:08:39 08-05-06 SHQ: *CFSRES: PENOLA, NANGWARRY & KALANGADOO RESPOND FIRE AT CARTER HOLT HARVEY NANGWARRY

1909366 16:26:09 08-05-06 WRGC-P: KALANGADOO RESPOND STATION CFSRES

Normally one of the members who is on the captains good side would be first down the shed but on this occasion i was left standing around for 5-10 minutes waiting for extra crew to turn up or at least an OIC to give me authorization to set the siren of

If no one turned up literally full stop i would have set the siren off at the risk of my getting my donkey kicked by the captain for setting it off without a minimum 2 crew and no driver

But after making a phonecall home and informing mum who's pager was in her car that we were needed she came down and the siren was set off however the one thing that gets me is that our Admin Officer who is the Captains wife has a MR licence & CFS Level 1 yet she didnt turn up after hearing the siren instead rocked up when our captain arrived   

I always thought that after Admin Officers do their level 1 & have a MR licence are supposed to be emergency drivers and rock up when they hear the siren but in this case it didnt happen which is real sad  :cry: because god knows how bad the situation was as we had no idea until our captain in asking if we were still needed
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: ElectricEliminator on May 09, 2006, 09:53:32 AM
Well i went to a brigade meeting last night and despite it being real fiery over an incident where everyone stuffed up i managed to have the guts to bring about how obtain a MR licence through the group

The reason i brought this issue up was because between 4-4:30pm yesterday afternoon our brigade got dispatched to a fire at CHH Nangwarry below are the pager messages

1909366 16:08:39 08-05-06 SHQ: *CFSRES: PENOLA, NANGWARRY & KALANGADOO RESPOND FIRE AT CARTER HOLT HARVEY NANGWARRY

1909366 16:26:09 08-05-06 WRGC-P: KALANGADOO RESPOND STATION CFSRES

Normally one of the members who is on the captains good side would be first down the shed but on this occasion i was left standing around for 5-10 minutes waiting for extra crew to turn up or at least an OIC to give me authorization to set the siren of

If no one turned up literally full stop i would have set the siren off at the risk of my getting my donkey kicked by the captain for setting it off without a minimum 2 crew and no driver

But after making a phonecall home and informing mum who's pager was in her car that we were needed she came down and the siren was set off however the one thing that gets me is that our Admin Officer who is the Captains wife has a MR licence & CFS Level 1 yet she didnt turn up after hearing the siren instead rocked up when our captain arrived   

I always thought that after Admin Officers do their level 1 & have a MR licence are supposed to be emergency drivers and rock up when they hear the siren but in this case it didnt happen which is real sad  :cry: because god knows how bad the situation was as we had no idea until our captain in asking if we were still needed

jesus :-o

are you guys in Kalangadoo or freakin Iraq?!?!

It sounds like you are all at war with each other, and waiting for a chance to go off at each other.

The sheer fact that you needed to have "the guts" to ask about how to get an MR licence at a meeting is just plain ridiculous.

Perhaps all your in-fighting is the reason why attendance at calls is poor? It sounds like all your members are too afraid to screw up at the risk of being yelled at so they just don't show up.

By all means, correct me if I'm wrong here, but it sounds like you guys all need to meake peace with each other.

stop drinkin hateorade!
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: Robert-Robert34 on May 09, 2006, 11:36:05 AM
Thats really true probie_boy we need to make peace with each other but the feud only started when 2 members (not mentioning any names)some how got all of their levels as well as leadership certificates in a space of 1 month ahead of each course

I can assure you this i did make peace with one of the members but it was shortlived as the Captain was told about this incident where everyone stuffed resulting in myself & the member getting both our butts kicked and let off with a warning  :-)

Cant we just put this thread behind us and get on with important ones as this one is months old and i dont want to start any arguements  :cry:
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: Darius on May 09, 2006, 01:04:01 PM
Cant we just put this thread behind us and get on with important ones as this one is months old and i dont want to start any arguements  :cry:

if you want the thread to die you'd better stop posting in it.  And don't you think it's a little bit strange you say you don't want to start any arguments and yet have described your brigades response to a callout that, shall we say, does not present your brigade in the best light.
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: Mike on May 09, 2006, 01:34:04 PM
Final comment on brigade isssues:

Time to stop focusing on all the bad things that have happened and try working on how to get things back on track.... and if it hasnt happened to you, maybe a little constructive advise perhaps!

Think about it....

If this thread strays off topic again it will be closed!

Now, I believe a draft copy of a training package for private fire appliances was sent to a few people (not sure who). From what I have heard around the traps it was basically a re-hashed level 1. The general consensus seemed to be that it was not appropriate for the people it was targeting, and they would more than likely think it was a load of 'that stuff you find on the ground that no-one likes to step in'!

This is only information that has come through the ranks..... is anyone able to shed some more light???
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: Robert-Robert34 on May 09, 2006, 04:11:58 PM
I'm not able to shed any light on it Mike as I'm still trying to locate the new private fire appliance guidelines myself so i can read them

From what i can recall going back to late 2004 when i did my level 1 re accreditation in Millicent we had other volunteers from forestry companies like Woakwine where they only use 14 units as first attack

What the CFS maybe trying to say is that any land owners or small businesses who utilize private fire appliances must make sure that their crew or crews are trained up to CFS Level 1 or as it is called now Basic Fire Fighter 1 standards

This is to avoid any injuries or fatalities happening on the fire ground... i hope this sheds some light on it
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: rescue5271 on May 09, 2006, 06:08:57 PM
MMMMMMMM what can I say????????? :?
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: medevac on May 09, 2006, 08:55:03 PM
i reckon i can hear the bangos from here...

i dont see why you need a minimum crew to set of the siren... becasue surely the siren means "mopre crew required.." perhaps more ppl should just wear there pagers in the first place  :roll:

im off track... anyway, unless other ppl on this forum know your particular brigades policies and procedures we cant help ya at all and just get very bored...
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: ElectricEliminator on May 10, 2006, 09:56:47 AM
Is it just me, or does it seem like robert34 has his heart set on this and none of our comments are going to sway him?

Personally Robert, listen to the majority here. A good portion of these ppl are experienced firefighters just like you. GETTING YOUR OWN FIRE APPLIANCE AND STARTING A LITTLE VIGILANTE BRIGADE IS A WASTE OF YOUR TIME, EFFORT AND MONEY. Your clearly willing to spend a lot of time and money on this, instead why don't you add that time and money onto what your doing at Kalangadoo? It would be of greater benefit to you and your community.

rant over
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: Robert-Robert34 on May 10, 2006, 12:04:42 PM
True Probie_Boy i should spend my time & money on trying to keep the kalangadoo brigade going however no body in the Kalangadoo township wants to support nor join the CFS so we can get more crew

Unfortnately this has been going on for years and no matter what tactics we tried they havent seemed to attract members... even Region 5 has tried to help us recruit members but no one in our town wants to join  :cry:
Title: Re: private fire appliances
Post by: Mike on May 10, 2006, 12:21:16 PM
I asked that we not stray into brigade issues again....

THREAD CLOSED