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Messages - Alan J

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426
Country Fire Service / Re: should all cfs/mfs stations take over rcr from ses
« on: December 25, 2007, 08:35:50 AM »
Quote from: Zippy on December 24, 2007, 04:53:40 PM
What if...CFS & SES Joined....and all the SES volly's joined CFS while retaining all the training from SES :)  see my point....Win win situation...

CFS volunteers can easily bolster SES workforce,  SES volunteers can help the CFS workforce within the single organisation :)

its not as if..once SES join CFS that the SES vollys are redundant  NOOOO.

South Australia FIRE and RESCUE service :)

Disagree Zippy.  I used to be a 'one-service' believer, but a older & wiser now. Only a win/win in a full-time fire-service where they have lots of paid spare time on their hands to maintain proficiency.

In Volunteer Land I believe it's a lose/lose situation.  See the "would you let a stranger on your appliance" thread.  As one person unkindly posted (but probably accurately) - 15000 volunteers, 8000 with half a clue, 1000 actually know what they are doing.  Now double the amount that those 15000 are supposed to know & be proficient in. 

The Big Whinge is that too much time is already demanded for training & etc.  Possibly only drowned by the Big Whinge that the required training isn't available in timely manner...
Double the training demands and watch people resign in their droves. And see even fewer of the remainder actually achieving competency.  My guesstimate is you could revise the above figures to more like 10000, 5000 & 500 respectively.  That's after adding SES numbers to CFS.

Neither Service would be any better off.  Certainly the community would be no better off.  Better to get really decent interworking arrangements going between the services, modify training to suit (eg teach SES RCR how to do -their- job in hazmat suits, teach CFS casualty handling) & encourage people to join the service that suits them.
THAT is a win/win.

my two bob's worth
cheers
AJ

427
SA Firefighter General / Re: How long from call to page?
« on: December 19, 2007, 12:38:26 PM »
Quote from: littlejohn on December 17, 2007, 07:33:48 PM
Do any of the learned folk who populate this joint know how long it takes Adelaide Fire to get a page out? ie from the moment someone calls 000, to the pager dropping?
(I'm not interested in comparing it to the old SOC, or knocking Adelaide Fire, just a time frame please!)

How long is a piece of string ?

If you can give the Comms Bod specific info in the right sequence, including UBD ref, maybe a minute or two from dialling to beeping.

Vague location or other info will result in a longer time to get out an accurate response page. Then it will depend upon the geographic knowledge of the Comms Bod, their skill at questioning, & their care factor at the time of the call.

 

428
Country Fire Service / Re: CFS facing lawsuit over Black Tuesday
« on: December 19, 2007, 12:31:11 PM »
Quote from: jaff on December 19, 2007, 07:33:26 AM
Where did you hear this ? Was it just a hook line from a news service or was there any flesh to story? As volunteers we are pretty well protected by the "good samaratin" act!

The CFS can & will be be sued.

According to the VFBA, volunteers can also be named as respondents & have to prove that their alleged negligence was not gross enough to lose the protection of sect.127 the FES Act. http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/sa/consol_act/faesa2005249/s127.html

Vols can also be called (subpoenaed?) as witnesses.

Plenty of opportunity for vindictive people to perpetuate the grief for those vols & staff unfortunate enough to have been involved.   :-( :x

AJ



429
SA Firefighter General / Re: Is there a WRONG reason to get involved?
« on: December 04, 2007, 01:41:51 AM »
Depends if that "wrong reason" is going to impact badly on other members  or safety.
We have at various times discouraged potential recruits who had uncontrolled (& possibly uncontrollable) red light fever.  Straight-out safety issue.

Also the chap who was into stompfen feet und clicken heels und at 19:31 vanted to know vhy all 30 members mentioned on ze veb-site vere not prezent und accounted for in zere sparklingk kleen univorms wen ze ztartingk time ist kleerly stated az 19:30 hours.  Decided he probably wouldn't fit in & suggested the army instead. Last I heard the army wasn't too keen either...

The bloke who wanted to use CFS as an educational stepping stone to a better job in the SA PS annoyed some members, but was a useful contributor while he lasted.
cheers
AJ


430
SAMFS / MFS pre-election leaflet distribution
« on: December 02, 2007, 12:40:28 AM »
The the last few days before the election I was listening to ABC-891. There were a number of calls of complaint about uniformed MFS people with appliances at various locations around Adelaide handing out anti work choices material.

Has any action been taken against the fireys concerned ?  Has HQ weighed in on this at all ?

Just curious, because if I, as an employee of what was formerly a QANGO were to be doing so, especially had I used a 'company' car to transport me to said place, I would be dismissed. Sure there would be a rigmarole to wade through, but eventually I would be g-o-n-e.

cheers
AJ

431
SA Firefighter General / Re: what do you want for xmas
« on: December 01, 2007, 11:48:36 PM »
Enough turn-outs to keep the troops interested, motivated & on-the-ball, but without actually doing any damage to anyone or anything.

Every year.

I would like for communications to & from HQ all the way down to brigades to be watertight & comprehensive - everything we need to know about being communicated fully, frankly, & timely. 

And vice versa.

I would like an immediate trebling of CFS budget so that all the training & equipment & comms & process backlogs can be instantly & meticulously fixed to the satisfaction of all volunteers & staff.

I would like enough beer so I can at least fool myself into thinking any of the above will happen in my lifetime...


(you asked...  :-D )


432
SA Firefighter General / SAAS Comms and paging delays
« on: November 23, 2007, 11:10:02 AM »
Quote from: boredmatrix on November 22, 2007, 10:19:38 PM

given the relative anonymity this forum provides (for me and you lot anyway - I'm just a lowly paramedic working in the city) - I'm thinking that it could be a fair assumption on my part to think that the average firey considers SAAS comms a bit of a joke?

please be honest - it's always interesting to know what other services think!

No, it would not be a fair assumption to think that we think SAAS comms is a joke.
We just wish SAAS -management- would play by the agreed rule-book.
As you'd appreciate, it takes most of us rather longer to get mobile than SAMFS, & we often have much further to travel. We also have some concern for safety of Ambo's in the Hills - blind bends on "racetracks" & etc. A lot harder for you folks to become secondary casualties if there's 13T of truck between you & the idiots...
cheers




433
Country Fire Service / Re: Goss - Aldgate to merge
« on: November 22, 2007, 09:56:59 PM »
Quote from: ltdan on November 22, 2007, 01:02:14 AM
The reason the fence is at bridgewater is for the drive thru bottle shop :-D

What an excellent idea !
A drive-thru bottle shop would be a nifty fund-raiser.  :lol:
Will have to start measuring up the car-park at my own station.
Which franchise would see best returns to the brigade?
BWS, Liquorland, or Cellarbrations?   :-P


434
Emergency Vehicles / Re: Region 3 Hook Truck
« on: November 21, 2007, 02:16:55 PM »
Quote from: chook on November 21, 2007, 09:37:27 AM
I could argue the need for an all terrain forklift, which would counter the loading/ loading issue. I'm sure however my counterparts would howl me down. So I guess it depends where you sit :wink:
cheers

This counterpart won't howl you down. 
Retardant bags.
Arrived on a semi-trailer from Melbourne around midnight to resupply after a heavy day's bombing.
Airstrip volunteers, already stuffed from a day of loading retardant into bombers, paged to return to the strip unload 10 or a dozen pallets-full of retardant bags into the storage shipping container. (approx 10 tonnes in 15Kg bags.)

By hand.

Won't be happening again.
CFS HQ can find a suitable fork-lift or come down & do it themselves.
One of those 4WD Canadian units with the telsecoping boom would do the job. Hire or second one from a brick delivery contractor.


435
Emergency Vehicles / Re: TTG old RFW 34
« on: November 20, 2007, 08:57:08 PM »
Quote from: mack on November 20, 2007, 06:51:40 AM
Quote from: StopCallKing on November 19, 2007, 04:42:33 AM
You are both wrong ! 
The RFW that was on loan to Cherry Gardens CFS was "The Battlestar" !!
http://users.sa.chariot.net.au/~chrycfs/old.htm

dunno where cherry came up with that mate, always edens old rig.


Had to call it something.  As there were ladies in the brigade at the
time, the preferred names were <ahem> unacceptable...   :-o




436
SA Firefighter General / Re: SAAS Responding Other Services..
« on: November 20, 2007, 08:41:56 PM »
Quote from: mack on November 20, 2007, 06:32:20 AM
aaah but surely 'civvys' as you call them... are the way to go.

that way they dont let personal experience or knowledge get in the way of enforcing procedures...


Nothing to do with procedures.  It's about price. 
People who actually know their stuff cost more than people who don't. 
And they are a lot harder to bully into cooperation with management
targets vs. core business.

Sad thing is that it more-or-less works for a while. Just long enough
fpor the manglers who introduce the system to collect their bonusses
& bolt. Then the wheels fall off.  Who here can spell "Intergraph"?



437
Emergency Vehicles / Re: TTG old RFW 34
« on: November 19, 2007, 04:42:33 AM »
Quote from: pipster on October 04, 2007, 08:09:23 PM
I've always known TTG 34 as Battlestar Galactica...never heard Eden Pumper called that....

Pip

You are both wrong ! 
The RFW that was on loan to Cherry Gardens CFS was "The Battlestar" !!
http://users.sa.chariot.net.au/~chrycfs/old.htm


438
Emergency Vehicles / Re: Region 3 Hook Truck
« on: November 19, 2007, 04:36:43 AM »
Quote from: Robert34 on November 18, 2007, 06:44:41 PM
These new pods are a great investment of tax payer dollars cause they can be set up quickly at any IMT staging area kinda like a popup tent which can be set up quickly at a campsite  :-)   

I have no argument with the idea of specialist pods as such - IMT, HazMat, CABA, etc. Can be a cheap way to get Good Gear happening.

The Big Problem I forsee in the case of the R3 vehicle is that generally the first thing it will respond as is "Tanker".  That will pretty much tie the vehicle up for the next umpteen hours, rendering it unable to deliver any other pods anywhere.

So a Tanker pod is probably not such a good idea...




439
Country Fire Service / Re: New Dispatch Vs old SOC
« on: November 19, 2007, 04:16:30 AM »
Quote from: Mundcfs on November 18, 2007, 09:03:39 PM
Quote from: 6793264 on November 18, 2007, 06:59:52 PM
A good point has been raised here. There does need to be a way to categorise the urgency of messages on the radio.


Doesn't NSW fire services (can't remember which one) run a numbered
or colour system to denote the urgency of the message??

Yes they do.  I hear that some parts of NSWRFS even use it. 
Red, Yellow & Blue denote urgent, important & routine respectively.
Idea is to help comms hub of busy network sort out which ones to deal with first.
Example:
"District CommCen this is Wotterbuggerup one alpha. Red.  Need Bulk water this location."
NSWRFS situation is perhaps a little different to us in that much of their operational comms is supposed to go to their district or zone commcen (equivalent
of a Regional comms) rather than to their brigade or group. So there's much more
opportunity for commcen overload than in our model.
They may use other colours too, but these are the 3 I know of.
cheers

440
SA Firefighter General / Re: SAAS Responding Other Services..
« on: November 19, 2007, 03:53:19 AM »
Quote from: boredmatrix on November 17, 2007, 11:48:30 PM
<snip>
as for specific agreements on when should fire services be involved in VA's?  I don't believe there is one - but I know that in Metro Adelaide -
<snip>

But there is a written agreement.  It's called the "Road Crash Rescue Memorandum of Understanding" or RCRMOU.  It is dated around 2000 (+/- a couple of years) & on one of the first few pages are the signatures of the CEO's of SAPol, MFS, CFS & SAAS.
From memory - it's a few years since I held a copy in my paws & read it - it says that the agency receiving the 000 call WILL respond the other 2 services. First arriving agency can stop-call the others if not required.
cheers


441
SA Firefighter General / Re: Responding to calls
« on: November 19, 2007, 03:42:50 AM »
Quote from: Robert34 on November 18, 2007, 06:35:38 PM
The only time a amber beacon would be useful on private vehicles is if you come across the scene of an accident or fire and providing traffic control thats why i've got a beacon for my car incase its needs for that reason

I guess that improves your visibility but don't count on it to save your bacon.

2 weeks ago, a mate in NSWRFS pulled up on the side of the road to help another vollie who'd broken down. It was night, good visibility, he had his hazards plus amber beacons going.
The truck ripped the side out of his 4WD, slammed into his mate's car & tossed him away off the side of the road.  No broken bones, but certainly very sore.


442
Country Fire Service / Re: cfs volunteers
« on: November 11, 2007, 08:24:08 PM »
Quote from: 6793264 on November 09, 2007, 07:15:12 PM
Now why not put people through the "Drive vehicles under response conditions" public safety package...

Easy....
Big Kev won't give Carmel the moolah to run it.
Always assuming Carmel asked in the first place.
Of course, David might not have passed on the message from
Euan to Carmel that he needs a bit extra pocket money this year.

But mostly, Kevin won't part with the cash, & has flagged a cut
in Euan's allowance next year.



443
Country Fire Service / Re: cfs volunteers
« on: November 09, 2007, 07:06:29 PM »
Quote from: SA Firey on November 08, 2007, 11:44:12 AM

CFS has an extension till 2009 to complete the training.
 

That's good (I think.) 
Was sitting down the other night thinking about getting every driver from every brigade through the course before January. Even counting all my fingers & toes plus those of the wife & kids I kept coming up short.

So, as a local "CYA" activity, we've grabbed the course notes from the sole member who has been on it, picked the brains of our experienced drivers plus some 4WD clubbies who've done the full 3-day course, and got our resident Adult Educators onto it.  Happily one is also a registered driving instructor. 

We will be putting all our people through a "local familiarisation" (just as soon as the tracks dry out) and hopefully, they'll all be deemed fully competent when they get to do the "real" course sometime between now & Julember 2016...


444
Country Fire Service / Re: White CFS Trucks
« on: November 09, 2007, 06:46:06 PM »
Quote from: Darius on November 09, 2007, 06:47:46 AM
here's a poor quality photo

LOL !  That much red & yellow will give the conspiracy theorists unlimited
goss-fodder & confusion about just who is going to take over the CFS.

Will it be MFS or DEH !!
Keeps everyone happy.    ;-)

445
SA Firefighter General / Re: Interesting Fire and Emergency Related Paging
« on: November 03, 2007, 01:49:12 AM »
Quote from: captain on November 02, 2007, 01:00:47 PM
No its just good pre-planning, bacause at our last group meeting (Mawson Group) all the Captains were asked to submit name of people who could go on task jobs in or out of state and for how long they could go for.

That part is the easy bit.
The head-scratcher is this...
You've just sent your only 5 people in-district off on a strike
team to the neighbouring group's area. All the rest of your
members work out-of-area in Adelaide CBD or further..
How to crew the second appliance for _possible_ local fires having
regard for members losing pay (food & shelter).
Remember, there isn't actually a local fire - just the possibility
of one.  It may not even be a TFB day.  How to spring your members
free of their employers without losing pay & good-will....

cheers
AJ


446
SA Firefighter General / Re: US firefighting aircraft
« on: November 01, 2007, 09:18:30 PM »
Quote from: firehawk on October 31, 2007, 03:47:44 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfCwChAg6lE

Evergreen Supertanker video

I think we might have 3 runways in the state capable of taking that aircraft or any of the other big tankers.
Adelaide Airport, Edinborough, & Woomera somewhere.  And I'm not sure about the second & third...
A bit limiting, that.


447
SA Firefighter General / Re: US firefighting aircraft
« on: November 01, 2007, 09:13:54 PM »
Quote from: jasec on October 31, 2007, 09:57:51 PM
I might be wrong but didn't they consider that option with that canadair bomber that was here for a demo years back, but it was realised that it has to be totally flat on the ocean to be able to fill it.  :?

Not exactly - the Canadairs can handle moderately rough water.
The biggest issues are that there is hardly any inland waterways suitable for them to scoop. If they can't scoop, they need lots of concrete runway. Not many of them around either.

But mostly, they are hideously expensive (AU$26M in 1998) & inflexible compared with the AT802F (AU$1.2M in 1998) in our environment.

cheers

448
SA Firefighter General / Re: GRN RADIO;S
« on: October 20, 2007, 02:39:51 AM »
The fact that we CFS tend to hunt in packs makes us our own worst
enemy for radio comms.

That said, seems to me that the comms plan as laid out in the
Operations Handbook should mostly work ok, so long as we actually
adhere to it (have we ever done so?) and:
- strike teams don't import their home TGs into the fireground,
- appliances stay off the IC TG
- Sector commanders & IC recognise VHF congestion & get additional
  channels allocated sooner rather than later.

What say others ?
Also, isn't there a portable GRN cell can be wheeled out to big jobs ?


449
SA Firefighter General / Re: burn over drill
« on: October 20, 2007, 02:18:24 AM »
Quote from: Darius on October 18, 2007, 11:16:32 AM
really, is that the rumour? if you're referring to the occasion I think you are
then your info is incorrect, neither the car nor appliances were "caught" but
made a considered decision to enter the road. Yes things got hot but the car
was never in danger of burnover and the strike team saved possibly up to 6 houses.

however all that aside, I do agree it is odd that command cars do not have the protection curtains and often not even blankets accessible in a hurry.


We may have different perceptions of what constitutes "caught".
I don't for a moment dispute the "considered decision" to be there.
I was there.
We picked our spot to park at the property we "defended" & apart from
stray ember damage, were never at risk. (The home was well prepared
& protected us perhaps more than we protected it.)
As I understand it (we were a bit busy!), the command car was still
out on the road where the heaviest fuel loads were, & it copped more
direct heat than most of the appliances.

That is the sense in which I use the word "caught". I'd have been a
happier if the car had been off the road in a sheltered spot as our
appliance was.
"Burn-over" - too strong a word perhaps (I didn't actually use it). 
Exposed to a direct & high radiant heat load - yes.
Where does one end & the other begin ?

cheers


450
SA Firefighter General / Re: burn over drill
« on: October 18, 2007, 01:04:16 AM »
Quote from: bittenyakka on October 12, 2007, 12:28:14 PM
I think 5217 was referring to a burnover drill for if you are on 5 layflats and can't actauly get to a truck or using, wait for it, a Rakehoe (shudder)
. What do you do?

BFF1 - "Avoid Injury" has one paragraph of answers. Which are not carried forward into COSO-12. We are a long-lining Adelaide Hills brigade. This year, I intend/insist that our burn-over drill will also include a 15-lengths-away-from-the-appliance scenario.

Watched a good PPT from the US fire safety mob last training night.  Key common denominator for the vast majority of fire-fighter fatalities is a quiet fire in low fuel loads which suddenly went bunta. Can't find that particular URL.  But this one is good.
http://www.blm.gov/style/medialib/blm/nifc/training/pdfs/refresher.Par.99870.File.dat/SWB_04_Refresher_print.pdf




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