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Messages - Alan J

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476
Country Fire Service / Re: CFS first responder to medical emergencies
« on: August 07, 2007, 10:04:48 AM »
G'day Mack
The thinking about this stems directly from the State Training fella's comments during reaccred sessions. Just moving from the gaseous "Yeah that's a good idea" discussions afterwards to something a little more... rubbery. As DGO2 pointed out last night, since the area is 'serviced' by full-time SAAS, they may reject it out-of-hand. But it doesn't hurt to ask.

But we do need to know the experiences of those already in the program before deciding whether to push ahead with it.
cheers

477
Country Fire Service / Re: Metro CFS volunteers
« on: August 06, 2007, 07:55:39 PM »
I'm pretty sure the SOP's say a minimum crew for an appliance is 4, however it also defines an appliance as having > 2000litres (?) so QAV's, 14s 12, etc don't have a minimum....

Hmmm. must be time to drop 100L out of the 24 & call it a QAV.  :roll:


478
Country Fire Service / CFS first responder to medical emergencies
« on: August 06, 2007, 01:14:09 PM »
Are there any members of First Responder brigades on-list ?
As in brigades that are turned out by SAAS to medical emergencies
automatically, as well as traditional fire brigades stuff.

Some in my brigade are tossing up whether to try & become one as,
although we are near-metro, we are around 15-20 mins from the
nearest 3 SAAS stations or hospitals.   One of the things which has
been highlighted to our members doing 1st-aid & O2 reaccred is the
short window of survival afforded heart patients & etc.  We think we
can offer some value in those few extra minutes between when we
can get there, & when SAAS can get there.

Not after a philsophical discussion of whether or not it's a good idea.
That's for my brigade to decide.
I'm looking for first-hand feed-back from those actually doing it.
What are the plusses. 
What are the pitfalls. 
How much extra load in your area & why. 
Does it really work ?   Why?/Why not?

Need real data to see if it is something for us.  Or something to avoid.

cheers

479
Country Fire Service / Re: Metro CFS volunteers
« on: August 04, 2007, 11:36:20 PM »
Most groups have 4 as a minimum but some do have three.

Is that number a local decision ? 
Or is it (as I have been told but not researched) a CFSHQ COSO/SOP?


480
Country Fire Service / Re: CFS Trailers
« on: August 04, 2007, 11:29:35 PM »
Sturt Group have a trailer used mostly by the cadets for Competitions training.... has also been used for carting other stuff around, but it is setup properly for the dry hose drill...

Never been used operationally.

Pip
Region Seve... I mean, Sturt Group also have a pump trailer stored up at Cherry Gdns. A Godiva pump with a VW donk.  Has been used in anger, most recently I think at the airstrip to augment the fixed pumps for Mt Bold fire bombing ops. (don't quote me on that).  They also used to have a trailer behind a Landy Defender for the air support setup. Might be a few other air support trailers left around the place. IIRC there's a photo of one in "Tried by Fire".
HTH

481
Country Fire Service / Re: CFS, 7 news 6 pm tonight
« on: August 04, 2007, 11:14:59 PM »
We asked about the property identification in one of the CAD meetings, we were told that SA is going through the rural property ID thing, and it will form part of CAD (more like CAD spurred them to do it) so someone can ring, quote the number of their property an get a turn out.

That's still a very MFS/urban-thinking way of looking at it.
Assumes that the caller :
a] is the property owner at the location
b] knows the correct name of the street and
c] knows which township to quote for locality
The system just doesn't cope well with the traveller between towns on their mobile phone.  Which pretty much encapsulates the turn-out accuracy issues we currently experience via MFS comms (& have done so for some years - the Minister has no excuse for not knowing about that).
Who remembers the ambos in the film "The Road to Nhill" ?

A grid reference, even if it is 250M out, is soooo much more exact.
But whatever its shortcomings, the new system is the new national standard.
It _will_ be implemented. 
Somehow we have to make it work for us.
Hopefully one or two clever minds have been directed to do just that.


482
Country Fire Service / Re: Helmets - wearing the wrong one
« on: August 04, 2007, 10:47:09 PM »
I take it I can't interest you blokes in a Protector Safety AS1801 type 3 plastic fantastic then...   :wink:

Must admit, I've been wearing a Cairns so long I can't imagine wearing anything lighter, even if it does stew my few remaining grey cells.


483
Country Fire Service / Re: Metro CFS volunteers
« on: August 04, 2007, 04:27:09 PM »
What is the recommended minimum crew size before a CFS truck roles ?
Genuine curiosity because I have seen & heard different numbers.

I understand it is 4.  But I have not confirmed this recently from the COSO/SOP folder.  It's a sensible number - operating a truck with less than that is hard yakka. But I see no problem with say, 3 appliances turning up from 3 brigades with only three bods per truck, forming into two crews & operating just two of the appliances.  The third is a handy source of extra water & hardware, and a useful traffic calming device.



484
Country Fire Service / Re: Helmets - wearing the wrong one
« on: August 04, 2007, 03:40:25 PM »
Harking back to the question a page or so ago which I don't think was directly answered - why do we have different helmets for rural & structural ?

Two different AS standards
In very broad terms, Rural helmets have less impact resistance & are ventilated to help the wearer shed heat.  Same as rural PPE.

Structural helmets are designed to insulate the wearer from a hot-gas environment, as well as protect from the higher likelihood of severely banging one's noggin.

Something like 20% of body heat is lost through the head even though it's only 9% of your body surface. Allowing for further reduced ability to shed heat through PPE, wearing a structure helmet at a rural fire has a significant impact on your ability to regulate body heat & consequential loss of stamina. But not as significant as wearing PBI Gold.  Whether that physical loss is offset by the $$ saving & convenience of a single helmet is something our decision-makers can argue one day with workcover.  Maybe.

regards

485
Country Fire Service / Re: Metro CFS volunteers
« on: August 04, 2007, 08:57:56 AM »
But if you need the 2nd responders crew, why is it that some CFS Brigades will not let you join unless you are within 5 mins response time  :?

Given that the majority of vols are employed, & in outer-metro areas tend to be employed down in the 'burbs, it can take a full SFEC (funded) list of 1st-response members to get a minimum crew together in the required time - out the door in 4 or 6 minutes or whatever.  Their real need is for more first-response people.  For 2nd-response,,, well, there's the rest of the existing membership list straggling in late to fill that quota.  Why would a brigade with 'full' membership "waste" their discretionary $$ on people who merely duplicate what they've already got?

Of course, if a brigade is way short of its SFEC funded strength and with little prospect of additional 1st-responder recruitment, then out-of-area members might be valuable in keeping the brigade viable as a group reserve for strike teams & etc. At least until local recruiting conditions change for the better.

In any event, I think the CFS may need to revise its minimum 1st response crew size - responding more brigades to jobs to ensure enough hands & feet arrive, especially during B/H. The requirement that a working crew must all arrive in the one vehicle from the one station is pen-pushing neatness rather than a real-world essential. As proven by the number of composite crews on strike teams over the last 2 summers. Don MacArthur's push for standard trucks & training enables just this. Plus, a stop-call on excess responders is easier & quicker to arrange than default turn-outs - as stated clearly by the RCR MoU.  Better outcome for the public too.




486
Country Fire Service / Re: Metro CFS volunteers
« on: August 03, 2007, 01:48:23 PM »
They can come and mop up my fires, so I can get my troops home and rested. Saves having to respond strike teams to mop up, taking resources and precious few available FF's out of area.

Makes good sense.  Certainly that's how RFS used us blow-ins at Arcadia & probably other places.  Their folks went back to earning a living & did first response in the area while we blacked out.  From the PoV of a hose-dragger, it seemed to work well.

487
Incident Operations / Re: Hills Fires 10/01/07
« on: February 03, 2007, 10:13:25 AM »
1991 appliance.  Cushions have been there longer than I. Suggest that the head-rest cushion especially _is_ a safety feature. New seat cushion has been supplied by Moores, hopefully with a fire-resistant cover....

488
All Equipment discussion / Re: NEW 34
« on: January 21, 2007, 11:37:36 PM »
I wounder what testing they did with those burnover spary bars if at all?????

RFS and CFA have funded CSIRO to research & design appliance protection systems. Project has been running 3 or 4 years now.  Lots of simulations then actually burnt a few old appliances to prove simulations.  Official results due soon if not already. No surprises - summary has been out for a year or two. 
Need to cover all glass with water.
Any other sufaces coated are a bonus. 
Water sprayed in the air is wasted.
Ring main around the roof is only way to get the spray nozzles up close enough to the glass that they are to protect.



489
Country Fire Service / Re: Denis Pumper
« on: January 21, 2007, 11:27:34 PM »
If all else fails, blame the terrorists. I agree with ryan, I don't think dennis spend much money on aerodynamics, if any. I reckon that truck is around purely because of bling value. It ain't good for much else in its current state.

Dennis mightn't spend much on aerodynamics (how important *really* is aerodynamics at speeds up to 140kmh?) but they sure spend money on suspension & handling. I was told that their latest pumpers can do donuts until the driver loses their nerve but will not fall over. (I WANT ONE !!)  http://www.johndennisfire.co.uk/products/dennissabre.htm


490
Country Fire Service / Re: Burn Over Curtains for Command Cars
« on: January 21, 2007, 11:01:01 PM »
Maybe it's just not practical to have curtains in command cars... They get in the way enough on the trucks - they'd probably be even worse in a car...

Eh??  <Scratching head...>
Can't say I've experienced this.
How so ?


491
SA Firefighter General / Re: Task Force Complaints
« on: January 21, 2007, 10:57:23 PM »
But you guys had a good cricket game and was a bit of fun.
Poor planing on the night, I hate it when you have been at work all day then go out at night to do nothing. For the safety of crews you should be released about midnight being up for 24 hours is dangerous

36 hrs by the time work all day, fire all night, work all day.
And only 4 hrs sleep the night before after initial response.
Lacking in bonhomie & good cheer by then.... the only good
greenie/manager/customer/wife/IMT/etc is a dead one...  :-D
(I catch a bus to work so road safety is someone else's problem.)


492
Incident Operations / Re: Hills Fires 10/01/07
« on: January 21, 2007, 10:45:13 PM »
Looks like some embers got on there and away it went :-o

Vinyl cushions, not canvas.  Happened when the wind change came through Cut Hill Rd.  Truck was parked on good safe ground & everyone's attention was diverted to things like breathing & avoiding being BBQ'd.  Then our Lt started yelling & waving his arms madly.  Thought he had bee problems at first.  Then we saw the black smoke off the crew deck...  Funny as, later.  Not at the time.  Have paid out the pump operator thoroughly - you were supposed to be minding the truck / not letting you borrow *my* car / etc.   

The new seat is nice.  :-D   The new cushion is a bit thin.
Should have let it go a bit longer - might have got a new truck.
Hind-sight is a wonderful thing.  :mrgreen:



493
Country Fire Service / Re: Burn Over Curtains for Command Cars
« on: January 16, 2007, 10:56:52 PM »
I gather one or two command cars had their paint singed on Wednesday afternoon. Especially on Cut Hill Rd when the wind change arrived... Easy to say in theory that they shouldn't be in harm's way, but given our roadsides have been given over as nature reserves & reveg sites, very easy for a 'safe' spot to go pear-shaped.
I guess no-one has really thought about it.

494
SA Firefighter General / Re: Task Force Complaints
« on: January 16, 2007, 10:52:49 PM »
Stopcallking - which Division were you in on Thursday night, I was in the DivCom car that handed over to the incoming DivCom at around midnight - I did feel for him a bit as he had not seen the lay of the land in daylight and those tracks around the Mt Bold land are like a rabbit warren.

There is still no reason not to get people out working though, when we left the guys were waiting for the fire to come out into grassland - not sure if it ever did.

In Pocock ?Sector?
Arrived Kanga by 19:00 with express instructions to be fed & watered before arrival, for immediate tasking. (Beauty!)  Sat at Kanga without tasking nor any hope (it seemed) of tasking while various officers & respected personages wandered around swearing about the complete lack of A Plan for the night. Some of whom have the direct ear of the CO, I might add.

The arrangements at Kanga were excellent by the way. An apparent surfeit of T-cards compared with appliances or strike teams, but... <shrug>   

Then around 2030, a break-out up at Pocock forced something to happen.
It seemed all the 30-odd appliances at Kanga were responded to the break-out, which we could hear being controlled as we drove.  Also discovered while we drove that the VHF channel allocated to us (VHF-020 I think) *as confirmed by two in my appliance who were at the "response briefing"* is in our mobiles but NOT our portables... Very useful that !  Heard later that in the rush to respond, the incoming DivCom was left behind at Kanga.

Arrived at Pocock on dusk & sat by the side of the road for about an hour. STL directed us onto VHF-055 after negotiation with Sector/Div Command (I assume).
Then we drove drove out into a paddock & waited until 0200 for a backburn that hadn't been lit to come out to us. Lovely clear skies.  Lots of satelites & shooting stars.

And a few appliances just over the next rise doing useful things. Many fewer than were parked & idle within 300M of us anyway.

And we were fed.  I cannot fault the logistics side of things at any stage of Wednesday or Thursday.  Absolutely brilliant.  Water, fuel, foam, food, repairs.  Whatever.  Supplied in abundance as, when, & where needed.   :-D

About 0200 we were directed to some short grass to control the northern end of the burn that was about to be lit. Nothing much happened there for a while so we had a game of cricket by headlight & light masts.  8-)

Then at 0230, a swag of DEH vehicles turned up to do the burn, & we sere sent away further north to black out whatever was left of that edge of the break-out 6 hours earlier.  There wasn't much left of it - few smouldering stumps well inside the black.  The crews before us had done a very good job indeed.

By 0430, that was blacked to 100M in from the edge... yes - 3 full hose lengths.  DivCom couldn't give us any further work & wouldn't release us.  Which was doubly frustrating because there was so much crying out to be done. So we kipped until 0645 then headed back to Kanga.  The three brigade captains on my S/T (that I know of - it was a composite team) - immediately contacted their Group Officers & advised them that their brigades would not participate any further in that fire.  Period.  :x

A bit of an ati-climax after Wednesday afternoon/evening.  And a shocking waste of a lot of peoples' time given that there was something like 30km of edge needing black-out, and 40km of roads needing making safe from falling trees.  As I understand it, our STL offered us to do both of these things & was knocked back.  :|

So yes, sour grapes.  Was a completely useless zombie at work Friday for no good reason other than "we were there".  :x

cheers

495
Incident Operations / Re: Hills Fires 10/01/07
« on: January 14, 2007, 08:53:15 PM »
I was one of the first attending at mt bold last night.

i fail to see how this is possible? as there were heaps of appliances on scene  before lofty group were even responded....  :?

Heard Mt.Lofty S/T being responded to Bradbury as our second appliance was getting away from  the station.  So they were responded only 10 mins or so after the initial smoke sighting message.  Beaten there by most of Mawson, Sturt & Heysen Groups, but well ahead of Murraylands, Gawler, & beyond...
So I guess that makes them one of the first on scene.   :-)

We got to Cut Hill Rd just in time for the westerly wind-change.  Hairy.  Took about 30 seconds to cover 100M to the house we were looking after. And a further 30 secs to fully involve a saw-mill shed & stacks & stacks of wood & rubbish along the fence line.  A few minutes later when we thought we were ok to move on, a machinery & fuel shed round the other side of the house went up. As it was right next to the bloke's business shed, we couldn't very well leave it.  So that was our next 45mins or so.

By the time that was sorted, everyone else was away & gone on property defence down Dashwood Gully or Razorback.  So we were sent around to the west side up Tester Rd to check after a few places along there. & maybe knock down some of the km or so to the next nearest appliance on Saddlebags Rd.

A productive night.  Completely different story to the waste of time & effort of the Thursday night revisit.  Consider this to be a dummy-spit about resource management.  First 12 or so hours is reasonable to be chaotic.  24-36hrs in & *after* declared contained, it is no longer reasonable.  Failure to task crews on-scene to the enormous amounts of work available is incompetence.  Failure to release or stop-call unused/not required crews is downright rude.  Or worse.

Not happy.
 :x

496
SA Firefighter General / Re: Task Force Complaints
« on: January 14, 2007, 08:20:26 PM »
Night Shift.
What do you do if everytime we are called out as a stike team for night shift that you end up with a brigade that does not pull their weight. The last 3 times we have been called, a particular brigade just loves to hide in the dark and do nothing.

Never had this happen.  My strike team leaders have always been across what each appliance is up to & seen that all pull their weight.

Far more common is what happened at Mt.Bold Thursday night when the IMT or DivCom seemed to have no idea & no ideas. About 7 strike teams plus heaps of DEH crews, but seemed like only 2 teams plus the DEH crews were given work to do.  And from the several places where we sat and listened or watched, those few people were being flogged.

Our STL kept making offers to do this, that or the other thing, but was consistently refused - not even a "we're holding you in reserve as ready-response."  In a 12 hr shift we were given only 2hrs work blacking out an area that had already been made fairly safe.  Other strike teams seemed to be similarly un-used.  

Many in my ST are so angry at this abuse of our time that we have refused to be available for any further Mt.Bold activity.  Really hard to justify non-attendance or being a zombie at work next day on the grounds of "spent all night out gazing at the stars".


497
SA Firefighter General / Re: NEXT G
« on: January 08, 2007, 09:53:35 PM »
Whole idea of keypad lock is so that you _don't_ accidentally dial emergency / overseas / activate bomb / etc.
Read The Manual.
Possible that flip phones don't have keylock - keys aren't exposed so may not be considered necessary.
Nokia 'bricks' - press 'menu' & '*' key in quick succession & you can't do _anything_.  Deactivate lock with same key sequence.
LG - press & hold '*' key 2 seconds.

498
SA Firefighter General / Re: NEXT G
« on: January 07, 2007, 06:23:42 PM »
I somehow managed to call 000 once from my pocket as the keypad lock doesn't work for that or 112!!! i almost crapped myself when i pulled my phone out and it said i was on the phone with emergency :oops: :roll:

_Keypad_ lock or _phone_ lock ?   
2 different animals in most phones.
Many phones can bypass the _phone_ lock to call emergency and/or
2 or 3 primary numbers. Phone lock needs the PIN to release it.

_Keypad_ lock does exactly that - disables the keypad. But doesn't
need PIN to release it.

499
SA Firefighter General / Re: NEXT G
« on: January 06, 2007, 10:54:59 PM »
Quote
only problem is there is no nonflip phone on the market yet. How long do you think a flip phone would last out on a job with us?

I actually bought a flip phone because I kept ringing people by accident while out on the job....  It's lasted 9 months now, and still going! :)
[/color]


This is why all mobile phones come with a keypad lock function.
Nokia: usually press 'menu' then '*' in quick succession. 
Other brands... RTM.

500
SA Firefighter General / Re: NEXT G
« on: January 06, 2007, 10:47:07 PM »
Tricky wrote:
Buyers beware..my advice is to anyone who asks, if you put your car into 5th gear, stay away from digital (for coverage reasons) & select CDMA - to be replaced with 3G 850. Who'd wanna be a salesman ?
[/quote]

I'd hesitate before getting a Telstra 2GSM phone too. I heard The Plan is to eventually shut the Telstra 2GSM network down as well as CDMA, leaving just the Next-G 850MHz network.

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