New Fatigue Management Regulations for drivers

[Darcyq]

I was wondering if any other Brigades had been told / found out for themselves the affect that the this new regulation will have on drivers. It only effects trucks with a GVM of 12t and over, which would include most if not all 34/34p, pumpers.

Examples that came to mind are: (1)If I work a normal day shift (7 - 3.30)then later that afternoon I get paged at 5pm to respond with a strike team to a large grass,scrub fire that is 20km from our station. We spend 12 hrs on the fire ground before being stood down, under the new regs, I can not now drive home nor can any other driver who is in our crew. A vehicle from the station is then required to deliver another driver to the fireground to bring the truck/crew home.

(2) I am now a truck driver for my day job, I complete a normall shift of 9 hrs. Get a page that evening and put in 3.5 hrs at a fire. Under the regs I can drive to the fire as i can use the exemption seeing as it is a classified emergency, however, i can not drive home or return to my day job as a driver for another 12 hours.


I suppose I more curious as to why CFS has not raised this issue with the brigades, I only came across it by chance reading the Saturdays Advertiser, then last night at brigade, I spoke to one of our members who is a member of SAPOL and discussed it with him.

I believe the brigades also now are required to keep a drivers log, and all drivers are responsible for obtaining and holding a drivers diary. (filled out only if driving further than 100km radius of station) - strike team deployments

Further information at transport.sa.gov.au then follow link to "Heavy vehicle driver fatigue"
 

[Bagyassfirey]

im a farmer and do a lot of truck driving and get around it. so im sure the CFS will get around it somewhere.. i guess a fire ground could be classed as private property so ur not technically drivin on the road

[chook]

Just like other regulations ESO's will be exempt, just like they are in NSW, Victoria. And wouldn't use your local SAPOL plod (sorry guys) as a source of info - not unless they are highway patrol or heavy vehicle. Even your SA transport scalies get it wrong!
Final word don't panic! Wait until State HQ's issue instructions & if it were me no way I would carry a work diary until CFS/SES issues a SOP.
How do I know this stuff? Part of my job to advise my company about this stuff & other chain of compliance issues & had to sit through session with Booths transport,another with TSA etc etc.
cheers

[uniden]

CFS/MFS have always been exempt from driving hour restrictions. You need ro regulate yourself when it comes to the hours/work you do in conjunction with your paid work. If you drive all day and have to drive the next for your paid job it might be a good idea not to go on the strike team. You need to look after yourself after all.

[SA Firey]

CFS/MFS are not exempt from the new regs, and any travel over 100 k's, ie Strike Teams requires a Log Book for each driver of an appliance

From Transport SA
D-Day for Driver Work Diary
It’s out with the old log book and in with the new work diary on 29 December 2008.
The new National Driver Work Diary is part of the heavy vehicle fatigue laws - introduced on 29 September 2008. The new laws apply to trucks, or truck combinations of greater than 12 tonnes gross vehicle mass, and to buses with more than 12 seats.
Drivers must be using a new work diary by 29 December 2008 – otherwise penalties apply.
Drivers doing work within 100 kilometres of the driver base on Standard Hours do not have to carry or complete the work diary.

More info http://www.transport.sa.gov.au/pdfs/safety/ArticleNewHeavyVehicleDriverFatigueLegislation.pdf

[Bagyassfirey]

yea thats absolutely correct...but lets face it whats the chances of the "naughty boys" pullin a cfs strike team up to check their log books..would have to have a heart the size caraway seed 

[chook]

SA Firey - who said your not exempt? Are you reading the regs or is it crown law opinion?
Here is the exemption in NSW-http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/heavyvehicles/downloads/ministerial_exemption_order-emergency-services-ftsc_2008.pdf
Here is the exemption in SA-
4382 THE SOUTH AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT GAZETTE [11 September 2008
5—Exemption in relation to regulated heavy vehicles used during emergencies
(1) This clause applies to a regulated heavy vehicle being driven in this State that is—
(a) urgently required in response to an emergency; or
(b) under the direction of a supervisor of an emergency service who is controlling or
assisting in the response to an emergency; or
(c) required in relation to the provision of an essential service, or for the repair or
replacement of infrastructure related to an essential service.
(2) This clause only applies in the following circumstances:
(a) if a regulated heavy vehicle to which this clause applies is travelling to an
emergency;
(b) if a regulated heavy vehicle to which this clause applies is being used in the course
of, or in relation to, an emergency;
(c) if a regulated heavy vehicle to which this clause applies is returning from an
emergency (the driver of the vehicle having ceased to be involved in the
emergency).
(3) These regulations (other than regulation 6) do not apply in relation to a regulated heavy
vehicle to which this clause applies in the circumstances set out in subclause (2)(a) or (b).
(4) The following provisions of these regulations do not apply in relation to a regulated heavy
vehicle to which this clause applies in the circumstances set out in subclause (2)(c):
(a) Part 4 Division 1 Subdivision 3 (Work diary requirements);
(b) Part 4 Division 2 (Records relating to drivers).
(5) However, this clause will only apply in respect of the circumstances set out in
subclause (2)(c) if the driver of the regulated heavy vehicle—
(a) before commencing the return journey, has had not less than 10 hours of rest time
(including not less than 6 continuous hours of stationary rest time) during the
24 hours preceding commencement of the return journey; and
(b) makes—
(i) the following written records, to be made before commencing the return
journey:
(A) a description of the emergency;
(B) an estimate of the driver's work time and rest time during the
24 hours preceding commencement of the return journey;
(C) the driver's name and driver's licence number, and the State or
Territory in which the licence was issued; and
(ii) the following written records, to be made at the end of each day on which
the driver drove a regulated heavy vehicle during the return journey:
(A) the registration number of the regulated heavy vehicle;
(B) the date for that day;
(C) an estimate of the driver's work time and rest time during that day;
(D) an estimate of the distance travelled on that day; and
(c) keeps a record referred to in paragraph (b) for a period of not less than 3 years after
it is created (however this condition will be taken to have been complied with if the
record keeper for the driver keeps the record for that period).
(6) This clause expires at the end of 28 September 2011.
(7) In this clause—
emergency means—
(a) an event that causes injury to any person; or
(b) a flood, fire, explosion, natural disaster or similar event; or
(c) a disruption to essential services;
emergency service has the same meaning as in regulation 57.

As you can see there is no requirement due to this exemption. The whole text is available from Transport SA - Transitional arrangements
Finally if it were me I would not carry a work diary for CFS/MFS/SES until an order is issued in writing signed by the 3 service heads, Safecom & the minister.
Otherwise you could be putting your **** on a block so to speak without any good reason. cheers

[Darcyq]

Then what does this part mean?

(5) However, this clause will only apply in respect of the circumstances set out in subclause (2)(c) if the driver of the regulated heavy vehicle
(a) before commencing the return journey, has had not less than 10 hours of rest time
(including not less than 6 continuous hours of stationary rest time) during the
24 hours preceding commencement of the return journey; and
(b) makes—
(i) the following written records, to be made before commencing the return
journey:
(A) a description of the emergency;
(B) an estimate of the driver's work time and rest time during the
24 hours preceding commencement of the return journey;
(C) the driver's name and driver's licence number, and the State or
Territory in which the licence was issued; and
(ii) the following written records, to be made at the end of each day on which
the driver drove a regulated heavy vehicle during the return journey:
(A) the registration number of the regulated heavy vehicle;
(B) the date for that day;
(C) an estimate of the driver's work time and rest time during that day;
(D) an estimate of the distance travelled on that day; and
(c) keeps a record referred to in paragraph (b) for a period of not less than 3 years after it is created (however this condition will be taken to have been complied with if the record keeper for the driver keeps the record for that period).


I'm sorry but unless I'm interpreting this incorrectly, they still have us, and I can understand their logic for this, just because we are emergency service workers doesn't make us "special", we don't have an extra supply of stamina issued to us so that we're able to work long hours in sometimes arduous conditions. If fact we're probably more likely to be affected by fatigue than a lot of other professional drivers.

What annoys me though, CFS should have notified all brigades ages ago on this.

[misterteddy]

bravo chook.....excellent piece of information, thanks for that.

I would assume this is why no-one has heard of it from CFS HQ....they have the same advice. Its certainly the advice MFS got...

Alway good to end the year with a little scare mongering half truths....must be time for a interstate strike team....bring on the deployment cricket matches

[bajdas]

yea thats absolutely correct...but lets face it whats the chances of the "naughty boys" pullin a cfs strike team up to check their log books..would have to have a heart the size caraway seed 

They will "...pullin a cfs strike team up to check..." when a truck driver falls asleep at the wheel when driving home & crashes the truck. Then WorkSafeSA, SAPOL, etc will be calling.

An idea to send volunteer relief drivers in a 4wd or car to bring the vehicles home after an extended incident (be it fire, flood, whatever) was mooted over 12 months ago. This was to give the crew enough rest & reduce risk. I have not seen it happening since it was discussed (like a lot of ideas).

But then again most strike teams for extended incidents get a rest break anyway don't they, with a crew change on the truck (eg KI fires)?? Or are you referring to like Mt Bold fires where I think crews bought their local truck ?

[Bagyassfirey]

i wasnt allowed to drive home from mount crawford or Warooka last year so its well enforced in region 4 anyway...and when i was talkin about getting pulled up as a strike team i was talking on the way to the incident. so if u don feel fit to drive u should excuse urself n do somethin else.

[SA Firey]

Have it your way,the Transport Inspector who informed our brigade must be telling porkies then

[jaff]

bravo chook.....excellent piece of information, thanks for that.

I would assume this is why no-one has heard of it from CFS HQ....they have the same advice. Its certainly the advice MFS got...

Alway good to end the year with a little scare mongering half truths....must be time for a interstate strike team....bring on the deployment cricket matches

Ease up Misterteddy, as you should be well aware deployment cricket matches have been banned until further notice under section 8, part (3) of Worksafe SA regs.

(3) No person shall knowingly enter into any inherantly unsafe non firefighting activities wereby the potential for speeding projectials to srike members, in the said members unprotected region (goolies) thereby causing other histerically laughing participants to fall to the ground in an uncontrolled manner, causing possible injury.

(4) refers to driving whilst tired or suffering from any related  afflictions, it categorically recommends the square cut or leg glance and NOT the straight drive.

[Alan J]

Interesting... I think the exemptions may need to read in conjunction with
http://www.transport.sa.gov.au/pdfs/freight/driver%20fatigue/fact%20sheets/HVDF_Check_List_1_.pdf

The way I read it, CFS must keep records of all drivers' heavy vehicle operations, whether in the course of CFS activities or not, AND we may well have to get someone brought in to drive us home if 12 hours work is exceeded in any given day.  That's for local jobs as well as strike teams.

cheers

[chook]

Misterteddy thanks - as for half truths the road transport industry has been spreading those for the last 12 months, even though they helped draft the national model(Tolls, Scott's & any of the other big logistics companies).
Andrew quite correct - its a risk management thing, know what your drivers have been up to & manage accordingly. Remember this legislation was developed for the transport industry which traditionally does not fill its vehicles with spare drivers.
SA Firey - my experience with using the inspectors from government departments including Transport SA for knowledge has been bad to say the least - they are only interested in a "collar", in fact Safework SA inspectors hate giving advise for that very reason "if it all goes wrong & you are prosecuted you can say you were acting on advise from us" quote by one of the principle inspectors Safework SA when challenged on why they don't assist. We got a local scaly in to give our forklift drivers advise on chain of compliance, his advice caused more halm than good & was incorrect. As for what happens if there is an accident, true it will be investigated but if the risk management stratagies are followed i.e. proper rest break prior to driving, rotating drivers etc then all will be fine. The original thread was carrying work diaries - it is not required.
So on that note have a good one - take it easy, see you later

[Baxter]

Chook you are so right on two accounts being the don't take what they say as Gospel as they are only human and do make mistakes like the rest of us. SA Fiery the info that your Brigade was supplied can be seen as good to know but why not wait and see how things develop across the entire service(s)no need to rush in for a solution when it effects more than one Brigade or unit or what ever. Now second one of chooks points being being don't do anything till it becomes a fully resourced directive from above. All to often I have seen in the public service 1/2 baked solutions to problems where a central body should of stepped in and did the job properly the first time and have a uniform solution to a problem as is the case with fatigue management for drivers.

Mac13 Region 4 have always been very mindful of how they treat volunteers and with all the strike teams that I've gone on in there presence they made sure we came home safe. I don't know about other regions but well done R4

[misterteddy]

the whole issue of fatigue management is one that is bigger than just drivers. Its about how we plan to use Strike Teams on the fireground, and how we plan to use and change over people AND still allow them to do the things that they need to do in their other lives (you know the ones that get in the way of us responding).

Work the guys on your appliance from 1800 till 0600 next day on a Strike team to Blahsville and how many of them are really fit to go to work next day? How many do? Similarly....work all night (or even just be at work all night if u are lucky to have a 14hr paid sleep somewhere cosy) and then get a job first thing in the morning. Are you fit to respond. Of course the text book answer is that we would all put our hands on our heart and say "oh but its his responsibility to manage his fatigue....and he shouldnt respond", but we all know theres a hundred reasons why he/she will - and they are all real and valid, not textbook ones.

For my part....we make our Fireground shifts too long. Instead of 10-12 hrs which has become the expected norm....we should be aiming at 6-8 tops - get in....work hard, go home. No need to feed them with extensive logistic requirements....no gathering of the clan at staging points so that it looks like a family gathering of the McDonalds, and spending your time chatting to all those long lost people u met 35 Strike teams ago. Sometimes Staging looks like a B&S venue.....which but for a minor abbreviated diminutive of the word and, is closer to the truth than we may care to acknowledge.

Theres a downside of course....means we need an extra shift of people.....but, thats what planning is for. I would have thought that we could just about pre-plan a response to most Group areas for 2,3,4,or 10 Strike Teams in 3 shifts....so that when the big one happens....u know ur Brigade is likely to have to find people for XXX shifts. Guys (or even girls, who probably do it better anyway) can plan, let bosses or partners know whats happeneing and make arrangements. More importantly....being out for 6-8 hrs is much less likely to impact heavily on the work-response balance. Perfect in every situation?....absolutley not....better in some?, yep, so its an improvement

So fatigue management is much more an issue than just your driver getting you home safely (which i must remember the next time everyone else in the truck is snoring on our way home from an overnight adventure). As an aside, SAAS is going through the same issues, with a lot of discussion and problem solving to address the issue for those Vol crews that get responded a lot throughout the night, and usually head down to town as a result. If they dont get it right....people wont go on the roster because it affects there abiolity to work the next day.......CFS will have the same issue if we dont sort it properly.

[rescue5271]

I will wait and see what comes  out of H/Q, i know it MIGHT becoming but they where waiting legal advice..If it does come out will CFS supply us all with log books? or will it be one log book per truck?? Fatigue management is nothing new some 4 may 5 years ago we went to salt creek(R3) did our 8 hour shift and where not allowed to drive home had to sleep on the ground over night wait till day crew arrived then went home...


If they do bring this in what about the regional staff who work there day shift but are then on call over night and have to drive out to a fire or accident in there work car.Yes i know the rule is only for trucks but Fatigue management should cover all area's of our life if they want to get it right... One thing CFS will have to do is train up more truck driver's so that when the trucks have to be picked up that someone is able to drive it back....

[bajdas]

Well written Mr Teddy....it was not that long ago the lady was killed in a car vs tree accident at Birdwood (I think) on her way home from a night-shift.

[bittenyakka]

Intresting i have one question. If we are going to make our arrangements for shift times more accountable to be X hours long. does X start and end when your truck leaves your station or when you enter and leave the fire ground?

I ask this because many strike teams epically in R1 travel easily an hour or 2 to get to the fire and hence an hour to get home. So a 12 hour shift on the fire ground becomes a 14 hour shift etc..

[Bagyassfirey]

if u go to a 8 hour shift on fire ground all of sudden u have to find 3 shifts of firefighters rather tyhan two...lets face it there not out ther to be found

[6739264]

if u go to a 8 hour shift on fire ground all of sudden u have to find 3 shifts of firefighters rather tyhan two...lets face it there not out ther to be found

Aren't they? Many of the issues that we face with strike teams tend to stem from the fact that shifts and overall deployments are too long. Smaller bite sized chunks of time may well be part of the answer, especially with regard to strike teams into nieghbouring groups. Mind you, if they worked on effectively managanging the resources that are assigned to any given large scale incident better, I'm sure that many things would fall into place, inculding the feelings of angst that have developed towards strike teams and task forces.

[Zippy]

Three Shifts!!! Three Shiftsss!!! Numbers...the IMT arent GOD!!! 

[6739264]

Three Shifts!!! Three Shiftsss!!! Numbers...the IMT arent GOD!!! 

I don't quite understand? Are you suggesting that they will be unable to source people for three shifts? By creating an extra shift, you then open up possibilities for people to take half a day off work to attend, or people who have commitments in the latter half of the day to attend. As it stands, you take off a whole day, or a whole night, which then can write off your following day. I'm not suggesting that three shifts is the way forward, nor would it work in practice, but it certainly is food for thought.

[misterteddy]

if u go to a 8 hour shift on fire ground all of sudden u have to find 3 shifts of firefighters rather tyhan two...lets face it there not out ther to be found

or rather lets have 2 work hard 8 hr shifts....and one shift of "lets not let it get into that big forrest thing without us knowing" ....minimal more numbers, and no more 2am stupidity when we're not really achieving much at all

I'm with numbers....guys (and maybe even girls) will commit to strike teams if they are shorter and they know (as much as is reasonable) for certain they will be back to go to work (or pick up the kids or anything else that they might HAVE to do later)

As for IMT managing it?....don't....very simple.....tell the Group you want a strike team in this location at whatever time...and let them do it - our IMTs are reknown for micro managing.....just let someone else get on and do it