Short 1.8 million in training?

[485298]

All are probably aware of this by now but thought id post it and get your thoughts

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/give-us-cash-to-do-our-job/story-e6frea83-1225955232392

COUNTRY Fire Service volunteers still are not being sufficiently trained, 10 months after the body made a plea for help, the CFS Volunteers Association says.
The association's executive director, Wendy Shirley, said a further $1.8 million was needed annually to adequately prepare recruits.

TELL US: How do you prepare for the fire season?

"One of our major concerns that wasn't addressed in February was the shortfalls in funding for volunteer training, and we are in talks with the Emergency Services Minister (Michael Wright) about this issue," she said.

"We are preparing a submission for $1.8 million per annum to fix the shortfalls in our Standards of Fire and Emergency Cover (program)."

The program sets out minimum standards of equipment and training for brigades.

The CFS Volunteers Association took the funding request to Mr Wright's office yesterday.

 Return to start of sidebar.
Mr Wright said he was aware of the request and would be giving it due consideration. "Our firefighters are better trained and better resourced than ever before," he said.

"During my recent meeting with the volunteers' association, the issue of training was discussed and I remain committed to working with the association on ways we can further enhance training for our volunteers."

In response to CFS pleas for help this year, the State Government provided a $7.1 million funding boost to the CFS for new technology, infrastructure upgrades, equipment and volunteer support such as training.

The state's emergency services also received a Federal Government grant of $2.53 million for online training. Ms Shirley said the association was "pleased" with both funding boosts, secured before the March state election, but said the CFS still was seriously underfunded in some areas.

SA Fire and Emergency Services Commission Strategy manager Mark Groote said new recruit numbers had dropped from about 1500 in 2006-07 to 1100 new volunteers in 2009-10.

Mr Groote said recruiting had been more difficult in rural and remote locations where populations were declining.

Heavy winter rains have triggered vegetation growth in many areas, such as the Adelaide Hills, meaning any blaze that takes hold will have ample fuel to wreak havoc if conditions are right in summer.

[6739264]

We're short far more than just $1.8m in training...

[485298]

yeah i dont know whats with that i would of estimated about 3 million but i havent seen many figures this was the first ive heard about it all

[bittenyakka]

CFSVA and Some CFS training staff member ( not sure who) have put together a plan to fix it for 1.8.

[Darcyq]

It still sounds like the minister is solely focused on the training being provided to combat the risk of bushfire, yes this is important, but i believe  a broader scope is required to take into consideration the other two thirds of responses for a lot of brigades and that is additional training be provided in CABA and RCR skills.

[6739264]

CFSVA and Some CFS training staff member ( not sure who) have put together a plan to fix it for 1.8.

Ahahahahahahaha...

It still sounds like the minister is solely focused on the training being provided to combat the risk of bushfire, yes this is important, but i believe  a broader scope is required to take into consideration the other two thirds of responses for a lot of brigades and that is additional training be provided in CABA and RCR skills.

And then there are those brigades where rural responses are NOT their core business...

[Pipster]

Or driver training - the one task we do everytime we go to a call, but have only a short course, which doesn't really cover everything it perhaps should.....

Pip

[Fire000]

Or driver training - the one task we do everytime we go to a call, but have only a short course, which doesn't really cover everything it perhaps should.....

Pip

Agree 110% on the lack of detailed driver training.

Is the 'Drive Vehicles Under Operational Conditions' unit compulsory to drive CFS vehicles on the fireground, or is is still up to the Captain of an individual Brigade to have the final say?

[boredmatrix]

Wait until an "untrained" driver writes one off....then watch the scramble for a high level compulsory driver training programme.  


Anyone wanna take a fall for the greater good??



** edited typo.**

[Alex]

Boredy, weve already seen the implementation of 'safe off road driver training' after an unfortunate incident that resulted in nasty injuries to a voll. Seems the money and push behind it fell on its face pretty quickly though.

[misterteddy]

thats because there was a Safework SA notice of non compliance or two placed on the service, but sadly that seems the only way to wrestle money out of Govt

As for the toothless tiger, well, I'm sure the funding for the CFSVA is still there

[Darius]

I realise you're cynical about the CFSVA Mr T but the reality is that the govt does not take any notice of anything the staff, including the chief, have to say about lack of funding and so it's up to us, the volunteers, to do something about it, and using the CFSVA is the best way to do that.  The CFSVA already have lines of communication open with the minister and we would be foolish not to use that.

The $1.8M being pushed for at the moment for specific training 'gaps' is step 1 (and yes Mr Numbers it's a drop in the ocean of what is needed but you have to start somewhere).  Step 2 is being planned now (so I gather).

After the Vic bushfire the Vic govt pumped more money into the CFA, and just the other day I read the NSW govt announced an increase of $117M in funding for the RFS.  If we don't get behind the CFSVA to help us get funded properly then, as already mentioned, the only way it will happen is when people start dying through lack of training or lack of equipment etc. 

There is a simple lack of willpower high up to fix endemic problems (eg. regular 15-30 minute, or more, delays in rescue resources being responded to car crashes, a problem that has been reported for years now).

We have fire trucks (the 06/07 hinos?) that conk out on the fireground because the air intake is mounted behind the front wheel so gets blocked up instead of having a snorkel up to the roof level. Or trucks (the isuzus) that lock themselves when no one is in them with the engine running. Or trucks that come with insufficent lockers to hold standard essential equipment. These are clearly not fit for purpose yet they were delivered to brigades like this and HQ says there is no money to fix these things.

So we can make snide little remarks about the CFSVA on a web forum, or gripe about lack of training courses, bicker amongst ourselves, or just whinge about things.  Or we can help the CFSVA to help all of us and get a bit vocal and militant and try to improve things.

[Zippy]

And what is the time frame expected for these things to be resolved by the CFSVA with the government, 5 years?

Fact of life: Its only possible to get more funds in the year leading up to an election.

[Robert-Robert34]

If the proverbial brown stuff hits the fan this fire season (god forbid) maybe the SA Government will open their eyes up and start giving better funding to CFS although i think that is unlikely 

[6739264]

There is a simple lack of willpower high up to fix endemic problems (eg. regular 15-30 minute, or more, delays in rescue resources being responded to car crashes, a problem that has been reported for years now).

We have fire trucks (the 06/07 hinos?) that conk out on the fireground because the air intake is mounted behind the front wheel so gets blocked up instead of having a snorkel up to the roof level. Or trucks (the isuzus) that lock themselves when no one is in them with the engine running. Or trucks that come with insufficent lockers to hold standard essential equipment. These are clearly not fit for purpose yet they were delivered to brigades like this and HQ says there is no money to fix these things.

Firstly, you should realise that the Rescue resource problem is generally SAAS based and is almost impossible to fix until the implementation of SACAD.

Secondly, the issues with the appliances has far more to do with the people at I&L section being so far out of touch with what the Firefighters on the ground need, than getting money to fix problems... These issues do not just magically happen. They are only caused by gross incompetence on the par of those who design these "Fire Trucks".

Money can't fix idiots.

[Darcyq]

The CFSVA already have lines of communication open with the minister and we would be foolish not to use that.

So we can make snide little remarks about the CFSVA on a web forum, or gripe about lack of training courses, bicker amongst ourselves, or just whinge about things.  Or we can help the CFSVA to help all of us and get a bit vocal and militant and try to improve things.

I fully agree with your comment. Why don't we all then email the CFSVA. We often see legitimate issues posted here that we all "carry-on" about, what is to stop us CCing the same post onto CFSVA.

[pumprescue]

Like numbers said the problem with the trucks isn't a money issue, you can design these things into the build, its an issue between I&L and the builders, those sort of things should get picked up in the design phase, not in the middle of a fire when things screw up.

Good on the CFSVA for trying, god knows someone has to, and it can't get much worse than it already is!!!

[misterteddy]

it's good to see everyone rally around the CFSVA...... but lets really hold them accountable to REAL chage....not bandaid changes, not fairy floss, not window dressing....

Having a line of communication open to the Minister is useless, unless it results in REAL action. Otherwise you're just part of the Gov't spin machine, being used to justify the unjustifiable.

Leading up to the Election, Wendy and her band of merry men were making all the rumbling sounds.....but what has happened??? Where has been the media releases, where has the letters to the editor, where has been the action working the media scrum to get the hearts and minds story, where have been the stories of Vicc funding and the "why cant we do this - do 200+ people have to die first" type of stories. Have the CFSVA been on holidays after the election???....it sure seems like it. Please don't bang on about doing things with the Minister or CFS Management UNTIL they result in  REAL change....until then, you're just a part of the Ministers Media Dept

You can call it whinging, or sniping, or whatever you like.... I can cop that. Better that than to blow smoke up their arse and say all is good because they try hard....

By the way.....if the trucks dont work....park them in Weymouth St and lock them with the keys inside....just my helpfull tip for the day, taken from the AEU/UFU handbook

[Fire000]

It's a terrible situation when we can send thousands of dollars to Puglia in Italy, and send a tram line to the Entertainment Centre, yet we can't provide the basic training and equipment to Vollies. What has our state come to.


When we go to fires/RCR/hazmat, we don't ask to be paid, we don't even expect to have anyone say "thanks for going", but what we do expect is to be provided with the training and equipment we need to do our job. If CFS Vollies were to disappear overnight, the cost to replace us with a paid force would be massive......... not practical. We care about our Community, so going on strike isn't an option.... it'd only make us look bad.

Who have we elected to represent us as our Government if we can't deliver on the basic necessities of society (e.g. emergency services) before we go blow all the money on Italian towns, and various other luxuries. I wonder sometime if our leaders are living in la la land.


In terms of managing the money we currently have, it makes me wonder what research is done into new CFS appliances. The latest i hear with the new 34/34Ps is a problem with "after burning" in the catalytic converter and its potential to start grass fires as well as halt an appliance in its tracks. Something designed to make these appliances comply with the new Euro emissions standards, why was this not picked up during the selection phase? If people can afford to go to Germany to take photos, how about spending some time doing some decent research into appliance design and selection. It's a hard job to do with limited budget, but we need to get our priorities right. By all means keep an eye on new appliance design and technology (the web is a great resource now, it's not always necessary to travel across the other side of the world to have a look), but keep the focus on what the service needs.

[boredmatrix]

Firstly, you should realise that the Rescue resource problem is generally SAAS based and is almost impossible to fix until the implementation of SACAD.

And SAAS is a Department to use as an example of how to run things in this state now is it?   FAAAAAARK!!     

Money can't fix idiots.

Quote of the year - can be applied to pretty much every level of Government in this "great" (sic) Country!!

[misterteddy]

Firstly, you should realise that the Rescue resource problem is generally SAAS based and is almost impossible to fix until the implementation of SACAD.

wrong, this is entirely a manpower issue, It's the result of overworked SAAS Comms Ops, not being able to get above their list of higher priorities, to ring the fire service and pass the message.

Provide a person in the EOC with just that function (even a cheap $$ cost Call taker) and the problem will go away over night

Desire to fix a problem....and not SACAD,  is the cure

[6739264]

Firstly, you should realise that the Rescue resource problem is generally SAAS based and is almost impossible to fix until the implementation of SACAD.

And SAAS is a Department to use as an example of how to run things in this state now is it?   FAAAAAARK!!     

Not using them as an example of how to run things by ANY means... just stating that the delay between Ambo -> Rescue turnout generally occurs in SAAS EOC.

wrong, this is entirely a manpower issue, It's the result of overworked SAAS Comms Ops, not being able to get above their list of higher priorities, to ring the fire service and pass the message.

Provide a person in the EOC with just that function (even a cheap $$ cost Call taker) and the problem will go away over night

Desire to fix a problem....and not SACAD,  is the cure

As the problem usually occurs in the SAAS EOC, then I think its fair to call it a "Generally SAAS based problem" no?

It would be great to employ someone solely responsible for Rescue resourcing (god knows other states do it) but if it existed in SAAS EOC, they would simply get lumped with other duties.

SACAD and its alleged automated notification to all services of a given job is probably the best way to fix the issue, not just grabbing a work experience kid to call the fire brigade!

[bittenyakka]

How many of you regularly attend CFSVA meetings?

[jaff]

Darius you were paying attention the other night!

Fire000, the "problem" with the cayalytic burn was known before the trucks were purchased!

Numbers youre right money cant fix idiots, but it could probably pay for someone to "fix"  them!....be a fargin big list though.

[boredmatrix]

As the problem usually occurs in the SAAS EOC, then I think its fair to call it a "Generally SAAS based problem" no?

It would be great to employ someone solely responsible for Rescue resourcing (god knows other states do it) but if it existed in SAAS EOC, they would simply get lumped with other duties.

SACAD and its alleged automated notification to all services of a given job is probably the best way to fix the issue, not just grabbing a work experience kid to call the fire brigade!

herein lies the problem.

the SAAS EOC has a culture of "compliance and discipline".  Ie: Don't maintain compliance with all the strictly written rules, get your fingers smacked.

the compliance relates purely to ensuring that AMPDS is adhered to, and that the calls are answered, triaged and terminated in the shortest possible time, whilst still maintaining compliance with the system.

....so now we have a bunch of scared little people, being telephonists and data entry staff, who are too scared to think for fear of getting a strike against their name.

Couple this with a chronic shortage of senior, experienced staff (all the good ones get smart and bugger off!!) - this is where the system falls over.

I wouldn't hold my breath that SACAD will fix the problem!!  If anyone can get the managers in the SAAS EOC off their Golden Pedastals and their heads out of their proverbials long enough to listen to another agency outside of their ivory tower - then this may well be a start to fixing a problem....but not before!