SA Firefighter
General Discussion => Country Fire Service => Topic started by: SA Firey on April 07, 2011, 09:08:29 AM
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The new IVECO heavy pumper in New Zealand, coming to a brigade near you.....fact or fiction :-D
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Something like this?
(Thanks fireenginephotos!!!!)
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Will we see one in Aus before we see a Rosenbauer AT?
WHO KNOWS?!?!
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Will we see one in Aus before we see a Rosenbauer AT?
WHO KNOWS?!?!
Yes is the word.
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A : Its not a heavy pumper - its a medium - single stage pump 750 GPM pump (assuming they stuck with the specs from NZ, which CFS never change see the NSWFB Type 2)
B : That picture is the NZFS type 1 - which is a light pumper 500 GPM pump.
So basically its what we were already buying, but on an Iveco cab/chassis
IN NO WAY IS IT A HEAVY PUMPER (which is sad) If you speak to the NZFS these don't go to stations that need to boost, and if they do need to boost they will get a heavy pumper and these are usually used as Rescue pumps, as the stowage layout is ideal for a rescue pump.
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Will we see one in Aus before we see a Rosenbauer AT?
WHO KNOWS?!?!
Yes is the word.
Sounds like it'll come down to a delivery date race...
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So sounds like CFS may have brought 2 new pumpers. So who will be the lucky brigade? Who can justify one??
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Hmmmm don't know about 2, but the NZ is sounding on the cars....as for who gets it, think who has the biggest jallopy pumper right now.....
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Further more, does anyone know of another order piggy backed of NSW for a type 2?
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So sounds like CFS may have brought 2 new pumpers. So who will be the lucky brigade? Who can justify one??
Notice I said "Aus" not "South Aus"
Hmmmm don't know about 2, but the NZ is sounding on the cars....as for who gets it, think who has the biggest jallopy pumper right now.....
Hmmm..... Lets think about that... hmmmm...
Further more, does anyone know of another order piggy backed of NSW for a type 2?
God, you'd hope so. Or maybe they should piggy back a handful of Class 3's?
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So the CFS gets another 1 off pumper, nothing new there.
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Further more, does anyone know of another order piggy backed of NSW for a type 2?
What for probably 2? I think they should really bite the bullet and get at least 10 of these to fill some gaps.
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So how many true pumps in SACFS?, and who deserves to get one based on risk?
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As in heavy pumps?
Two - Morphett Vale & Burnside - based on the premise of a heavy pumper being capable of pumping 1000 gpm (or around or 3785 lpm)
Pip
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So how many true pumps in SACFS?, and who deserves to get one based on risk?
SACFS don't have a designation for a Heavy Pumper.
Anything "Type 2" Pumper and higher meets the requirements for an "Urban Pumper", according to SACFS. As Pip has said, its generally understood that a "Heavy" pumper can spit out 1000gpm. If you look around the country at other services "Ultra Large" and "Super Pumpers" they dwarf the capacity of anything the CFS calls a pumper. (Not that CFS need anything like that, its more for interests sake)
Does a 34P Tanker with Urban Stowage meet the CFS definition of an "Urban Pumper"?
Light Pumper - 1000L/m @ 700kpa
Medium Pumper - 2000L/m @ 700kpa
Urban Pumper - 3000L/m @ 700kpa
24P Tanker - 2000L/m @ [Unspecified] kpa
34P Tanker - 3000L/m @ [Unspecified] kpa
(All shamelessly ripped from the Oct 2010 SOP's Glossary, I really hope there is a better definition out there?)
I do love the manner in which CFS rate their pumps to the recommended operating pressure of the branch, rather than to a figure closer to 'normal' pump operating pressures, say 1000kpa?
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So any more to the rumour mill?
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So how many true pumps in SACFS?, and who deserves to get one based on risk?
SACFS don't have a designation for a Heavy Pumper.
Anything "Type 2" Pumper and higher meets the requirements for an "Urban Pumper", according to SACFS. As Pip has said, its generally understood that a "Heavy" pumper can spit out 1000gpm. If you look around the country at other services "Ultra Large" and "Super Pumpers" they dwarf the capacity of anything the CFS calls a pumper. (Not that CFS need anything like that, its more for interests sake)
Does a 34P Tanker with Urban Stowage meet the CFS definition of an "Urban Pumper"?
Light Pumper - 1000L/m @ 700kpa
Medium Pumper - 2000L/m @ 700kpa
Urban Pumper - 3000L/m @ 700kpa
24P Tanker - 2000L/m @ [Unspecified] kpa
34P Tanker - 3000L/m @ [Unspecified] kpa
(All shamelessly ripped from the Oct 2010 SOP's Glossary, I really hope there is a better definition out there?)
I do love the manner in which CFS rate their pumps to the recommended operating pressure of the branch, rather than to a figure closer to 'normal' pump operating pressures, say 1000kpa?
How about,how many pumpers with over 3000lpm capacity?. I see a number of Isuzus similar to CFA and FRNSW.
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How about,how many pumpers with over 3000lpm capacity?. I see a number of Isuzu's similar to CFA and FRNSW.
The Isuzu's are the FRNSW Type 2 Build. There are 6 of them off the top of my head, at Murray Bridge, Millicent, Happy Valley, Mount Barker, Hahndorf and Eden Hills. They have the Rosenbauer NH30 pump, rated to 3000lpm/ 1000kpa.
As for pumpers "Over 3000lpm/1000kpa" you'd be looking at million dollar abomination that is The Dennis at Morphett Vale, the slightly bent, but still "new" Volvo at Burnside and the other million dollar lemon Pumper at Stirling. All three of these were prototype builds/buys and the only one that operated as a fire truck should have from day one was Burnside's Volvo. The Dennis and the Isuzu at Stirling have cost hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars to continually patch. They finally solved both problems with the Dennis looking to be scraped, and Stirling's pumper getting a MAJOR refit, pump and all last year.
"Heavy" Pumpers and the SACFS have a rather rocky relationship...
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where does Bridgewater's pumper fit into your assessement of things?
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Bridgewater pumper would be classed as a light pumper going off the specs, its the same as a 24P/34P, 500GPM pump, only thing different is the 2in 2out. Are their any other inlets or outlets ?
The NSW style Type 2's are medium pumps as has been stated.
The 3 heavy pumpers have also been listed, when the Dennis goes and if the stated replacement eventuates then the CFS will only have 2 Heavy pumps, both of which were brigade designed. The Stirling version was interfered with by HQ and we all know how that ended up, after nearly 10 years its finally good to go, and Burnside to their credit stuck to their guns and got what they wanted and surprise surprise it works !
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where does Bridgewater's pumper fit into your assessement of things?
Its a 24P, with a PTO pump. Nothing more, nothing less. Having a PTO driven pump does not an Urban Pumper make.
You'll notice that Bridgewater "Pumper" was part of a run of five appliances built. These are:
Bridgewater Pumper
Nuriootpa 24P
Waikerie URP
Bordertown URP
Roxby Downs URP
Pick a callsign and appliance designation, I've got a hat full!
It's disappointing to see that CFS will not enforce correct appliance classification and callsign usage.
Bridgewater pumper would be classed as a light pumper going off the specs, its the same as a 24P/34P, 500GPM pump, only thing different is the 2in 2out.
Don't forget a 24P and 34P differ, as one is rated to pump 2000lpm the other 3000lpm. The 500GPM pump would sit Bridgewater "Pumper" happily in the 24P class of appliance.
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34P is 3000LPM....huh? Yeah, it has 3000 litres in its tank and you could probable empty it in a minute if you tried hard enough....Unless things have changed we can't get anything more out of our 34P than we could out of our 24P. I hope your toungue was in your cheek.
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34P is 3000LPM....huh? Yeah, it has 3000 litres in its tank and you could probable empty it in a minute if you tried hard enough....Unless things have changed we can't get anything more out of our 34P than we could out of our 24P. I hope your toungue was in your cheek.
Not at all, for once.
SACFS COSO + SOP's (October 2010) Glossary states:
24P Tanker: An tanker [sic] with 2000 litre water carrying capacity and 4-wheel drive. Pump capability 2000 litres per minute and can carry a specialist resource eg RCR or Hazmat
34P Tanker: An tanker [sic] with 3000 litre water carrying capacity and 4-wheel drive. Pump capability 3000 litres per minute and can carry a specialist resource eg RCR or Hazmat
You'll note that it gives no output pressure for the lpm rating, so it could well be 3000lpm @ 1kpa.
If anyone has a better and more clearly defined classification for SACFS trucks, please feel free to correct me. (and the SOP's)
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Its a 24P, with a PTO pump. Nothing more, nothing less. Having a PTO driven pump does not an Urban Pumper make.
You'll notice that Bridgewater "Pumper" was part of a run of five appliances built. These are:
Bridgewater Pumper
Nuriootpa 24P
Waikerie URP
Bordertown URP
Roxby Downs URP
Pick a callsign and appliance designation, I've got a hat full!
It's disappointing to see that CFS will not enforce correct appliance classification and callsign usage.
Also Coromandel Valley 24P. Similar build, PTO driven 500gpm pump and 3in 3out.
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Oh dear god it does say that......just when I couldn't lose any more faith in this service something else comes along to drop it even lower....the paid boffins don't understand they trucks they issue us....fishing rod where are you!!
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Its a 24P, with a PTO pump. Nothing more, nothing less. Having a PTO driven pump does not an Urban Pumper make.
You'll notice that Bridgewater "Pumper" was part of a run of five appliances built. These are:
Bridgewater Pumper
Nuriootpa 24P
Waikerie URP
Bordertown URP
Roxby Downs URP
Pick a callsign and appliance designation, I've got a hat full!
It's disappointing to see that CFS will not enforce correct appliance classification and callsign usage.
Also Coromandel Valley 24P. Similar build, PTO driven 500gpm pump and 3in 3out.
Although not part of the same build run, it is very similar.
Oh dear god it does say that......just when I couldn't lose any more faith in this service something else comes along to drop it even lower....the paid boffins don't understand they trucks they issue us....fishing rod where are you!!
:D
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scratching head slowly...
how long has a 34P required a 3000LPM pump ?
are they not being built with the same 2000LPM pump-set as 34's (and 24P's)?
just with less 'strangled' plumbing?
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Clearly whoever wrote it must assume the 3 transfers to all the specs!!
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Just released in this months edition of "Infralog"
11-12 New Appliance Program
Tenders have now been received for the construction of appliance bodies and these will be evaluated in early May.
The build program for the 2011-2012 financial year includes:
· One Mid Urban Pumper
· Three 34P’s
· Sixteen 34’s
· Four 14’s
· Three Quick Response Vehicles
· Two Bulk Water Carriers
· One dedicated Rescue Appliance
Now the guessing begins!
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Dedicated rescue to Yankalilla i reckon, they were talking about getting a replacement for theirs, mind you dont know why they would deserve one over anyone else??
and wow 3 34P's wont hold our breath down here for our 24P to be replaced, those 34P's will probably go to 20 call a year brigades with no rcr or hazmat..
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The build program for the 2011-2012 financial year includes:
· One dedicated Rescue Appliance
Now the guessing begins!
Kadina is the brigade I heard.
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I haven't heard anything, however, one could assume that the new stand alone rescue vehicle could be replacing any of the current stand alone rescue vehicles - which could include Waikerie, Kadina & Yank
Pip
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I heard that it was being delivered to a brigade the formerly had a dedicated rescue...
Although you have to wonder how much empty space the truck will have, as the current CFS rescue stowage takes up about one and a bit lockers.
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With the way the rescue stowage has been decimated over the last few years you would be lucky to need a stout backpack....
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Aldinga Beach have a stand alone rescue too. :wink:
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With the way the rescue stowage has been decimated over the last few years you would be lucky to need a stout backpack....
Frankly a duffel bag will do. To make a backpack "stout" costs $$$ you know!
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hope the new QRV's go somewhere with a use! Next to useless on the flat country!
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hope the new QRV's go somewhere with a use! Next to useless on the flat country!
Fit them with a PTO pump and hey presto, Quick Attack Pumpers...
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hope the new QRV's go somewhere with a use! Next to useless on the flat country!
Depends on what your using them for really. They would be quite handy in some plantations and vineyards.
Would be nice to see them go to a brigade doing more than one or two calls a year though. Have a look through the promotions site at some of the recent appliance allocations. There are some brigades kicking around with quite a few appliances doing anywhere from 2-20 jobs a year...
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Let's not forget farmlands where bean stubble is grown thats where a QRV would be useful
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That's where a fleet of QRVs would be useful.
One lonely QRV probably a bit less useful... :-D