SA Firefighter
General Discussion => SA Firefighter General => Topic started by: littlejohn on October 26, 2007, 09:22:56 AM
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Has anyone seen footage from California of the aircraft they're using for firebombing?
More helicopters than you can poke a stick at, and some fairly decent fixed wing aircraft too. Including, I believe, a DC-10. A damn big plane to be trying to get as close to the ground as possible!
I'd heard talk of using planes that we'd otherwise associate with commercial airliners for water bombing. First time I've seen footage of one in action.
I'm guessing they must have staged some drops for publicity - the area they were dropping on was in the middle of an area completely blacked out, with no smoke to be seen.
What did seem pretty apparent was that using aircraft of that size in hilly terrain makes it very very hard to drop on the fire.
Both the DC-10 and a large flying boat made runs, and much of their drop was carried off by wind.
Footage of firefighters also showed many of them carry backpacks and have gear hanging off their belts. Poor buggers have to run up and down hills dragging hoses as well as their own gumpf. I wonder what they're carrying about!
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Take a squizz at the 'Evergreen Supertanker' carrying around 90,000L of retardant. The DC-10 is like a matchbox plane in comparison.
http://www.evergreenaviation.com/supertanker/
US wildfire firefighters tend to carry a heap more hand equipment than most Aussies do. They do a lot more linework with hand tools and spend more time afield from their vehicles.
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From the doco's i have seen they really need to get with the times. Alot of lines they put in a gentle breeze would carry the flames across. But this is just from the doco's i have seen so it maybe different.
If you look at alot of their forests etc there is really no vehicle access as well so they dont have a lot of choice either....
let it burn and catch it on the flip side?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfCwChAg6lE
Evergreen Supertanker video
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Nice big plane with loads of water,but hey we could not do that here as we have no water.........It just goes to show you even the best fire service can still come unstuck with all their large style water bombers.....
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mmm yes true Blinky... That big blue thing we like to call 'The Ocean' is empty.
Think outside the square.
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How about filling up the bombers with beer :lol: thats a good substitute for water :roll:
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I might be wrong but didn't they consider that option with that canadair bomber that was here for a demo years back, but it was realised that it has to be totally flat on the ocean to be able to fill it. :?
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Yes jasec is correct, the problems is that it is very hard to pick up water from the sea because it needs to be very flat and the sea is too rough. The other problem is the damage that is done by sea water to the environment, DEH said it is better for the fire to burn in the park that put sea water on the fire. It would do less damage.
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Didnt it also destroy a house in the demo, to show its water power so to speak.
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The Candadair were also very slow and very expensive to run compared to the fleet that the CFS contractors operate.
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I might be wrong but didn't they consider that option with that canadair bomber that was here for a demo years back, but it was realised that it has to be totally flat on the ocean to be able to fill it. :?
Not exactly - the Canadairs can handle moderately rough water.
The biggest issues are that there is hardly any inland waterways suitable for them to scoop. If they can't scoop, they need lots of concrete runway. Not many of them around either.
But mostly, they are hideously expensive (AU$26M in 1998) & inflexible compared with the AT802F (AU$1.2M in 1998) in our environment.
cheers
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfCwChAg6lE
Evergreen Supertanker video
I think we might have 3 runways in the state capable of taking that aircraft or any of the other big tankers.
Adelaide Airport, Edinborough, & Woomera somewhere. And I'm not sure about the second & third...
A bit limiting, that.
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the other issue about the larger bombers was the turn around time in areas where there was little or no water,the ocean was looked at but there where a number of problems that came up at the time.I think you will find that from the study and demo of what came over from USA that our system was most suitable to our climate and was far faster than theirs when it came to refilling...