SA Firefighter
General Discussion => Country Fire Service => Topic started by: 485298 on November 18, 2010, 11:04:04 AM
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All are probably aware of this by now but thought id post it and get your thoughts
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/give-us-cash-to-do-our-job/story-e6frea83-1225955232392 (http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/give-us-cash-to-do-our-job/story-e6frea83-1225955232392)
COUNTRY Fire Service volunteers still are not being sufficiently trained, 10 months after the body made a plea for help, the CFS Volunteers Association says.
The association's executive director, Wendy Shirley, said a further $1.8 million was needed annually to adequately prepare recruits.
TELL US: How do you prepare for the fire season?
"One of our major concerns that wasn't addressed in February was the shortfalls in funding for volunteer training, and we are in talks with the Emergency Services Minister (Michael Wright) about this issue," she said.
"We are preparing a submission for $1.8 million per annum to fix the shortfalls in our Standards of Fire and Emergency Cover (program)."
The program sets out minimum standards of equipment and training for brigades.
The CFS Volunteers Association took the funding request to Mr Wright's office yesterday.
Return to start of sidebar.
Mr Wright said he was aware of the request and would be giving it due consideration. "Our firefighters are better trained and better resourced than ever before," he said.
"During my recent meeting with the volunteers' association, the issue of training was discussed and I remain committed to working with the association on ways we can further enhance training for our volunteers."
In response to CFS pleas for help this year, the State Government provided a $7.1 million funding boost to the CFS for new technology, infrastructure upgrades, equipment and volunteer support such as training.
The state's emergency services also received a Federal Government grant of $2.53 million for online training. Ms Shirley said the association was "pleased" with both funding boosts, secured before the March state election, but said the CFS still was seriously underfunded in some areas.
SA Fire and Emergency Services Commission Strategy manager Mark Groote said new recruit numbers had dropped from about 1500 in 2006-07 to 1100 new volunteers in 2009-10.
Mr Groote said recruiting had been more difficult in rural and remote locations where populations were declining.
Heavy winter rains have triggered vegetation growth in many areas, such as the Adelaide Hills, meaning any blaze that takes hold will have ample fuel to wreak havoc if conditions are right in summer.
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We're short far more than just $1.8m in training...
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yeah i dont know whats with that i would of estimated about 3 million but i havent seen many figures this was the first ive heard about it all
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CFSVA and Some CFS training staff member ( not sure who) have put together a plan to fix it for 1.8.
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It still sounds like the minister is solely focused on the training being provided to combat the risk of bushfire, yes this is important, but i believe a broader scope is required to take into consideration the other two thirds of responses for a lot of brigades and that is additional training be provided in CABA and RCR skills.
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CFSVA and Some CFS training staff member ( not sure who) have put together a plan to fix it for 1.8.
Ahahahahahahaha...
It still sounds like the minister is solely focused on the training being provided to combat the risk of bushfire, yes this is important, but i believe a broader scope is required to take into consideration the other two thirds of responses for a lot of brigades and that is additional training be provided in CABA and RCR skills.
And then there are those brigades where rural responses are NOT their core business...
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Or driver training - the one task we do everytime we go to a call, but have only a short course, which doesn't really cover everything it perhaps should.....
Pip
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Or driver training - the one task we do everytime we go to a call, but have only a short course, which doesn't really cover everything it perhaps should.....
Pip
Agree 110% on the lack of detailed driver training.
Is the 'Drive Vehicles Under Operational Conditions' unit compulsory to drive CFS vehicles on the fireground, or is is still up to the Captain of an individual Brigade to have the final say?
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Wait until an "untrained" driver writes one off....then watch the scramble for a high level compulsory driver training programme.
Anyone wanna take a fall for the greater good??
** edited typo.**
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Boredy, weve already seen the implementation of 'safe off road driver training' after an unfortunate incident that resulted in nasty injuries to a voll. Seems the money and push behind it fell on its face pretty quickly though.
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thats because there was a Safework SA notice of non compliance or two placed on the service, but sadly that seems the only way to wrestle money out of Govt
As for the toothless tiger, well, I'm sure the funding for the CFSVA is still there
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I realise you're cynical about the CFSVA Mr T but the reality is that the govt does not take any notice of anything the staff, including the chief, have to say about lack of funding and so it's up to us, the volunteers, to do something about it, and using the CFSVA is the best way to do that. The CFSVA already have lines of communication open with the minister and we would be foolish not to use that.
The $1.8M being pushed for at the moment for specific training 'gaps' is step 1 (and yes Mr Numbers it's a drop in the ocean of what is needed but you have to start somewhere). Step 2 is being planned now (so I gather).
After the Vic bushfire the Vic govt pumped more money into the CFA, and just the other day I read the NSW govt announced an increase of $117M in funding for the RFS. If we don't get behind the CFSVA to help us get funded properly then, as already mentioned, the only way it will happen is when people start dying through lack of training or lack of equipment etc.
There is a simple lack of willpower high up to fix endemic problems (eg. regular 15-30 minute, or more, delays in rescue resources being responded to car crashes, a problem that has been reported for years now).
We have fire trucks (the 06/07 hinos?) that conk out on the fireground because the air intake is mounted behind the front wheel so gets blocked up instead of having a snorkel up to the roof level. Or trucks (the isuzus) that lock themselves when no one is in them with the engine running. Or trucks that come with insufficent lockers to hold standard essential equipment. These are clearly not fit for purpose yet they were delivered to brigades like this and HQ says there is no money to fix these things.
So we can make snide little remarks about the CFSVA on a web forum, or gripe about lack of training courses, bicker amongst ourselves, or just whinge about things. Or we can help the CFSVA to help all of us and get a bit vocal and militant and try to improve things.
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And what is the time frame expected for these things to be resolved by the CFSVA with the government, 5 years?
Fact of life: Its only possible to get more funds in the year leading up to an election.
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If the proverbial brown stuff hits the fan this fire season (god forbid) maybe the SA Government will open their eyes up and start giving better funding to CFS although i think that is unlikely :roll:
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There is a simple lack of willpower high up to fix endemic problems (eg. regular 15-30 minute, or more, delays in rescue resources being responded to car crashes, a problem that has been reported for years now).
We have fire trucks (the 06/07 hinos?) that conk out on the fireground because the air intake is mounted behind the front wheel so gets blocked up instead of having a snorkel up to the roof level. Or trucks (the isuzus) that lock themselves when no one is in them with the engine running. Or trucks that come with insufficent lockers to hold standard essential equipment. These are clearly not fit for purpose yet they were delivered to brigades like this and HQ says there is no money to fix these things.
Firstly, you should realise that the Rescue resource problem is generally SAAS based and is almost impossible to fix until the implementation of SACAD.
Secondly, the issues with the appliances has far more to do with the people at I&L section being so far out of touch with what the Firefighters on the ground need, than getting money to fix problems... These issues do not just magically happen. They are only caused by gross incompetence on the par of those who design these "Fire Trucks".
Money can't fix idiots.
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The CFSVA already have lines of communication open with the minister and we would be foolish not to use that.
So we can make snide little remarks about the CFSVA on a web forum, or gripe about lack of training courses, bicker amongst ourselves, or just whinge about things. Or we can help the CFSVA to help all of us and get a bit vocal and militant and try to improve things.
I fully agree with your comment. Why don't we all then email the CFSVA. We often see legitimate issues posted here that we all "carry-on" about, what is to stop us CCing the same post onto CFSVA.
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Like numbers said the problem with the trucks isn't a money issue, you can design these things into the build, its an issue between I&L and the builders, those sort of things should get picked up in the design phase, not in the middle of a fire when things screw up.
Good on the CFSVA for trying, god knows someone has to, and it can't get much worse than it already is!!!
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it's good to see everyone rally around the CFSVA...... but lets really hold them accountable to REAL chage....not bandaid changes, not fairy floss, not window dressing....
Having a line of communication open to the Minister is useless, unless it results in REAL action. Otherwise you're just part of the Gov't spin machine, being used to justify the unjustifiable.
Leading up to the Election, Wendy and her band of merry men were making all the rumbling sounds.....but what has happened??? Where has been the media releases, where has the letters to the editor, where has been the action working the media scrum to get the hearts and minds story, where have been the stories of Vicc funding and the "why cant we do this - do 200+ people have to die first" type of stories. Have the CFSVA been on holidays after the election???....it sure seems like it. Please don't bang on about doing things with the Minister or CFS Management UNTIL they result in REAL change....until then, you're just a part of the Ministers Media Dept
You can call it whinging, or sniping, or whatever you like.... I can cop that. Better that than to blow smoke up their arse and say all is good because they try hard....
By the way.....if the trucks dont work....park them in Weymouth St and lock them with the keys inside....just my helpfull tip for the day, taken from the AEU/UFU handbook
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It's a terrible situation when we can send thousands of dollars to Puglia in Italy, and send a tram line to the Entertainment Centre, yet we can't provide the basic training and equipment to Vollies. What has our state come to.
When we go to fires/RCR/hazmat, we don't ask to be paid, we don't even expect to have anyone say "thanks for going", but what we do expect is to be provided with the training and equipment we need to do our job. If CFS Vollies were to disappear overnight, the cost to replace us with a paid force would be massive......... not practical. We care about our Community, so going on strike isn't an option.... it'd only make us look bad.
Who have we elected to represent us as our Government if we can't deliver on the basic necessities of society (e.g. emergency services) before we go blow all the money on Italian towns, and various other luxuries. I wonder sometime if our leaders are living in la la land.
In terms of managing the money we currently have, it makes me wonder what research is done into new CFS appliances. The latest i hear with the new 34/34Ps is a problem with "after burning" in the catalytic converter and its potential to start grass fires as well as halt an appliance in its tracks. Something designed to make these appliances comply with the new Euro emissions standards, why was this not picked up during the selection phase? If people can afford to go to Germany to take photos, how about spending some time doing some decent research into appliance design and selection. It's a hard job to do with limited budget, but we need to get our priorities right. By all means keep an eye on new appliance design and technology (the web is a great resource now, it's not always necessary to travel across the other side of the world to have a look), but keep the focus on what the service needs.
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Firstly, you should realise that the Rescue resource problem is generally SAAS based and is almost impossible to fix until the implementation of SACAD.
And SAAS is a Department to use as an example of how to run things in this state now is it? FAAAAAARK!! :roll: :roll:
Money can't fix idiots.
Quote of the year - can be applied to pretty much every level of Government in this "great" (sic) Country!!
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Firstly, you should realise that the Rescue resource problem is generally SAAS based and is almost impossible to fix until the implementation of SACAD.
wrong, this is entirely a manpower issue, It's the result of overworked SAAS Comms Ops, not being able to get above their list of higher priorities, to ring the fire service and pass the message.
Provide a person in the EOC with just that function (even a cheap $$ cost Call taker) and the problem will go away over night
Desire to fix a problem....and not SACAD, is the cure
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Firstly, you should realise that the Rescue resource problem is generally SAAS based and is almost impossible to fix until the implementation of SACAD.
And SAAS is a Department to use as an example of how to run things in this state now is it? FAAAAAARK!! :roll: :roll:
Not using them as an example of how to run things by ANY means... just stating that the delay between Ambo -> Rescue turnout generally occurs in SAAS EOC.
wrong, this is entirely a manpower issue, It's the result of overworked SAAS Comms Ops, not being able to get above their list of higher priorities, to ring the fire service and pass the message.
Provide a person in the EOC with just that function (even a cheap $$ cost Call taker) and the problem will go away over night
Desire to fix a problem....and not SACAD, is the cure
As the problem usually occurs in the SAAS EOC, then I think its fair to call it a "Generally SAAS based problem" no?
It would be great to employ someone solely responsible for Rescue resourcing (god knows other states do it) but if it existed in SAAS EOC, they would simply get lumped with other duties.
SACAD and its alleged automated notification to all services of a given job is probably the best way to fix the issue, not just grabbing a work experience kid to call the fire brigade!
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How many of you regularly attend CFSVA meetings?
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Darius you were paying attention the other night!
Fire000, the "problem" with the cayalytic burn was known before the trucks were purchased!
Numbers youre right money cant fix idiots, but it could probably pay for someone to "fix" :wink: them!....be a fargin big list though.
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As the problem usually occurs in the SAAS EOC, then I think its fair to call it a "Generally SAAS based problem" no?
It would be great to employ someone solely responsible for Rescue resourcing (god knows other states do it) but if it existed in SAAS EOC, they would simply get lumped with other duties.
SACAD and its alleged automated notification to all services of a given job is probably the best way to fix the issue, not just grabbing a work experience kid to call the fire brigade!
herein lies the problem.
the SAAS EOC has a culture of "compliance and discipline". Ie: Don't maintain compliance with all the strictly written rules, get your fingers smacked.
the compliance relates purely to ensuring that AMPDS is adhered to, and that the calls are answered, triaged and terminated in the shortest possible time, whilst still maintaining compliance with the system.
....so now we have a bunch of scared little people, being telephonists and data entry staff, who are too scared to think for fear of getting a strike against their name.
Couple this with a chronic shortage of senior, experienced staff (all the good ones get smart and bugger off!!) - this is where the system falls over.
I wouldn't hold my breath that SACAD will fix the problem!! If anyone can get the managers in the SAAS EOC off their Golden Pedastals and their heads out of their proverbials long enough to listen to another agency outside of their ivory tower - then this may well be a start to fixing a problem....but not before!
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How many of you regularly attend CFSVA meetings?
our Brigade rep generally attends. .......but please dont suggest that old chestnut that it's (the CFSVA) only as good as what WE (the already overworked Volunteer) puts into it.....the staff there are paid wages, good wages to produce results for us, bout time THEY took responsibility for THEIR output
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No i wasn't going to suggest that but It helps when you complain about these things to be able to say I was at the last meeting and listened the reports.
There is only 1 staff member in the CFSVA there should probably be more.
FYI the CFSVA hasn't' released how their 1.8M is going to be used so know one really knows yet so how about we wait and see.
And we are all ignoring other things that they have got pretty much done such as the exemption form driver fatigue laws, the 25kph past emergency vehicles which is now just getting final paper work done. As well as continual pressure on Adelaide fire to improve there act which hasn't always been adequate for CFS.
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our Brigade rep generally attends. .......but please dont suggest that old chestnut that it's (the CFSVA) only as good as what WE (the already overworked Volunteer) puts into it.....the staff there are paid wages, good wages to produce results for us, bout time THEY took responsibility for THEIR output
well said Mr.T I Thought that was the way it went anyway you have one or two reps from your brigade that go to the CFSVA Mettings and takes what your the brigades ideas and suggestions or needs to the meetings.
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The 25kms past emergency applainces has not come in yet and is along way off coming in, The driver fatigue laws(log books) is still a ongoing issue as CFS is not yet exempt as the wrong person signed off on that paperwork. There is documentation floating around has to how that 1.8 million is to be spent and most of that would go on wages to employ more training staff so that courses can go ahead. I am sure your group officer can supply you with a copy of the paperwork .
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you know Bitten.....your post says it all for me.....yes they are the wins the CFSVA claims recently aren't they..... not exactly earth shattering are they? Ever think they were convenient ways of shutting them (and therefore us)up with small trinkets??
I'll applaud them when they get a good win on the board...as of yet, that hasnt happened
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What is your number 1 issue you want fixed?
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And we are all ignoring other things that they have got pretty much done such as the exemption form driver fatigue laws, the 25kph past emergency vehicles which is now just getting final paper work done. As well as continual pressure on Adelaide fire to improve there act which hasn't always been adequate for CFS.
Hooray. I may not have a fit for purpose fire trucks, but thank Christ people will drive past it slowly!
The fact that the CFSVA are claiming things like the above as "wins" merely goes to show how toothless and gutless they are. We STILL have appliances that defy logic in the problems they have when the roll off the production line. We STILL have appalling stowage that defies logic and is simply unfit for use on a modern fire appliance. Busy brigades have nill support from both the CFS hierarchy or the CFSVA.
Thanks CFSVA...
What is your number 1 issue you want fixed?
Appliances and stowage that is fit for purpose and not a complete joke. Its not hard.
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The 25kms past emergency applainces has not come in yet and is along way off coming in, The driver fatigue laws(log books) is still a ongoing issue as CFS is not yet exempt as the wrong person signed off on that paperwork. There is documentation floating around has to how that 1.8 million is to be spent and most of that would go on wages to employ more training staff so that courses can go ahead. I am sure your group officer can supply you with a copy of the paperwork
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Last i heard was that DTEI (Dept. Transport Energy and Infrastructure) were against the change. Even if they were for it, wouldn't it involve a change to an Act of parliament, thus requiring going through state parliament. I agree it's stupid the 40km/hr wasn't 25km/hr to start with, but don't think the change will be something as simple as getting 'signed off', it's a bit more involved than that.
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Your correct FIRE000,will take alot more leg work and lot more meetings...
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The 25kms past emergency applainces has not come in yet and is along way off coming in, The driver fatigue laws(log books) is still a ongoing issue as CFS is not yet exempt as the wrong person signed off on that paperwork. There is documentation floating around has to how that 1.8 million is to be spent and most of that would go on wages to employ more training staff so that courses can go ahead. I am sure your group officer can supply you with a copy of the paperwork
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Last i heard was that DTEI (Dept. Transport Energy and Infrastructure) were against the change. Even if they were for it, wouldn't it involve a change to an Act of parliament, thus requiring going through state parliament. I agree it's stupid the 40km/hr wasn't 25km/hr to start with, but don't think the change will be something as simple as getting 'signed off', it's a bit more involved than that.
Correct Fire000 - the 40 km/hr is part of the Road Traffic Act (as opposed to the regulations) - which means to change it, it actually has to go through Parliament. If both the Government & the Opposition agree, it is a very simple & quick process....if one or the other doesn't agree, then the change is more difficult...
Pip
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I will be honest...I cannot see how a 25km/h speed limit will be actually done safely without signage being deployed.
I was told a few years ago that sinage would never fit on appliances & take to long to deploy a central facility in country areas.
Especially in the country regions where speed is being reduced from 110km/hr to 25 km/hr in a very limited distance.
Good luck SACFSVA...
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The 40 km/hr limit past emergency vehicles already exists....under legislation, no signage required...but many people are still unaware of the law in relation to this.....
Pip
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I agree that appropriate stowage is important....
But when the CFSVA puts their voice into things like the this they get completely shot down by the Group officers who don't want them to worry about operational issues. So how about you all go to your group officers and say that you want them to let the CFSVA discuss and express opinion on operational matters.
On the other hand is are you CFSVA reps the people you want making operational decisions?
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Ahhh the crusty old Group Officer, they don't want ANYONE interfering in ANYTHING let alone operational matters !!
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Sorry LETS not get confused here!!!! CFSVA state/group/brigade reps are voted in to as seudo union reps NOT a make operational decisions rep, if that is what they want to be ask us!...... its what we volunteers call "consultation", something the CFSVA has been banging on about to CFS staff at the direction of the CFS volunteers they represent for ages.
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Ahhh the crusty old Group Officer, they don't want ANYONE interfering in ANYTHING let alone operational matters !!
Yeh if they were dogs you would put the lot down!
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There's that word again"consultation" something that's been missing in a lot of the decision process over the years. :roll:
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IF people are not happy about the CFSVA or what your brigade or group rep is doing then you as a member of the CFS can attend and have your say at any CFSVA meeting. So come along and have your say or hear what is going on....
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Ahhh the crusty old Group Officer, they don't want ANYONE interfering in ANYTHING let alone operational matters !!
Yeh if they were dogs you would put the lot down!
LOL theres got to be some group officers that want someone else's input..... i think :?
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Ahhh the crusty old Group Officer, they don't want ANYONE interfering in ANYTHING let alone operational matters !!
Yeh if they were dogs you would put the lot down!
LOL theres got to be some group officers that want someone else's input..... i think :?
Interesting concept! 8-)
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Tried that, chain of command only has only one way information flow in parts...
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I think the problem doesn;t lie with the group officers in terms of making the right descions.
but the link between the GO and the captains then the brigade members on the way down the chain.......
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The 40 km/hr limit past emergency vehicles already exists....under legislation, no signage required...but many people are still unaware of the law in relation to this.....
Pip
Some of us enforce a 25 km/h limit now.
When your car/truck/appliance/helicopter blocks 1.5 of 2 lanes- traffic has not much choice but to crawl past.
Coppers get cranky because you've 'overly obstructed' traffic? It's my legislated problem to ensure my health and safety in the workplace. Haven't had anyone argue with that yet.....
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Some of us enforce a 25 km/h limit now.
When your car/truck/appliance/helicopter blocks 1.5 of 2 lanes- traffic has not much choice but to crawl past.
Not sure if everyone understands the speed issue here.
Under the Fire and Emergency Services Act 2005, Section 97 (2) (f) CFS personnel have the power to direct or prohibit the movement of vehicles. CFS are not required to use traffic control signs or warning devices - nor does CFS train its personnel in traffic management (as per DTEI's standards). These procedures are further detailed in the Chief Officer's Standing Orders number 9 and Fire Ground Practice 16.1.
So yes, as Boredmatrix mentioned you can stop/direct traffic, as happened with his chopper landing incident. Whilst the responsibility for traffic management lies with SAPOL, as you would know it often comes back to CFS to do the hands on work. If SAPOL are not present and the OIC feels unsafe about the traffic situation, close the road. As Boredmatric mentioned, the safety of crew and patients has to come first.
The issue being discussed here is the 40km/hr past ALL emergency services vehicles displaying red/blue flashing lights or sounding a siren, at all incidents or whilst traveling to an incident. My understanding is this comes under the Australian Road Rules. It's designed to protect ALL emergency services vehicles, including instances where there may be 1 truck/ ambulance on scene and no one free to direct traffic/ do traffic control.
In theory, people should be doing 40km/hr past us at all times on scene, and the new proposal being discussed is to make it 25km/hr default speed past emergency services vehicles.If roadworks have a speed of 25km/hr to protect their crews, why should emergency services be any different. Yes, as we currently see not everyone follows the current 40km/hr, and not everyone will follow the 25km/hr if/when it come into effect - but surely every measure to improve our safety counts. Will be interesting to see what happens.
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Agree with the bulk of that fire000...
But I reckon the section in relation to speed past emergency vehicles comes under the RTA, Division 9, Section 83, not under the ARR....
Pip
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Agree with the bulk of that fire000...
But I reckon the section in relation to speed past emergency vehicles comes under the RTA, Division 9, Section 83, not under the ARR....
Pip
Thanks for correcting me Pip, after all with your work you're in a better position to know traffic rules/regs than me.
cheers
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are we sufficiently off topic yet? :mrgreen:
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Agree with the bulk of that fire000...
But I reckon the section in relation to speed past emergency vehicles comes under the RTA, Division 9, Section 83, not under the ARR....
Pip
Thanks for correcting me Pip, after all with your work you're in a better position to know traffic rules/regs than me.
cheers
It's all on line at www.legislation.sa.gov.au (http://www.legislation.sa.gov.au) !
And yes Mister Teddy, we are waaayyyy off topic - but that's half the fun!! :evil:
Pip
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Tried that, chain of command only has only one way information flow in parts...
Is your quote the gooderest inglish Zippster?
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Dropping the speed limit down to 25km/h when emergency vehicles are under red & blues's also presents an additional risk of "secondary accidents" in certain circumstances.
For example, a car is driving along a section of freeway in medium to heavy traffic with a posted limit of 110 km/h. There is fog patches about and it has been raining. The road starts turning through a bend to the left, just on the apex red and blue lights become visible. What should the driver do?
Brake hard to slow down from 110 to 25 could risk skidding / loosing control or be hit by other vehicles traveling behind.
Now I hear you say that they should be driving to the conditions. I challenge anyone who has had to respond to an incident on the SE Freeway to say that ever happens!
Best solution is for enough police to provide traffic control further back to give prior warning of the incident ahead and to allow a progressive reduction of speed. How often do we ever see this able to be done? Even with the current level of 40km/h it is still an issue we have to consider and input risk control measures, this often take the form of crew members being used solely as safety observers looking out and provide a warning should they see a wayward vehicle.
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That would be fine in the real world more police doing traffic control but this is SA... What about 25kms past school buses when they have their yellow lights flashing ....
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Dropping the speed limit down to 25km/h when emergency vehicles are under red & blues's also presents an additional risk of "secondary accidents" in certain circumstances.
For example, a car is driving along a section of freeway in medium to heavy traffic with a posted limit of 110 km/h. There is fog patches about and it has been raining. The road starts turning through a bend to the left, just on the apex red and blue lights become visible. What should the driver do?
Brake hard to slow down from 110 to 25 could risk skidding / loosing control or be hit by other vehicles traveling behind.
Now I hear you say that they should be driving to the conditions. I challenge anyone who has had to respond to an incident on the SE Freeway to say that ever happens!
Best solution is for enough police to provide traffic control further back to give prior warning of the incident ahead and to allow a progressive reduction of speed. How often do we ever see this able to be done? Even with the current level of 40km/h it is still an issue we have to consider and input risk control measures, this often take the form of crew members being used solely as safety observers looking out and provide a warning should they see a wayward vehicle.
You don't hear me say "They should be driving to the conditions" but you will hear me say "Darcyq, go and read SACFS Operational Bulletin 25/2010 - Road Traffic Management"
Ops Bulletin 25/2010 clearly states that the "Taper Zone" should begin 165m from the Work Zone in a 110 km/h Zone. This is easily achievable with multiple resources on scene. It also states that among other things, weather and road topography must be taken into account, prior to setting up a traffic management zone. Any IC with half a brain should be switched on to this and manage the scene accordingly.
You can't simply park your appliance and expect everything to be fine. Its all about creating safe zones, and acting under the assumption that motorists will not slow down.
If all else fails shut the road until SAPol have enough resources on scene to manage traffic appropriately.
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honestly, the public is dumb......just put big "25kph when stopped" signs on the back of our vehicles (acknowledging it has no basis in law) and they will (mostly) do as we ask, the dumb ones you can dob into PC Plod for anything you care to come up with..... Call it a Safety campaign, call it Industrial Action (like signs outside the Fire Stations with beds in them when they are in "discussions")...who cares, just do it and move on to something more meaningful
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Numbers, your preaching to the converted. All I'm saying is if your on the first arriving appliance and other resources are still enroute, then you don't have the luxury of being able to slow down approaching traffic progressivly.