SA Firefighter
General Discussion => Country Fire Service => Topic started by: CFS_Firey on September 01, 2007, 11:40:10 AM
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I am sure that the five rope rescue cfs brigade's would loved to have been involved in that rescue..............
I'm sure its been discussed elsewhere, but which are the 5 brigades?
(sorry for going off topic)
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Naracoorte
stirling
sellicks
robe
waikerie
are the only five CFS rope rescue brigade's in the state
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are the only five CFS rope rescue brigade's in the state
Thanks. I thought Burnside had rope training for confined space rescue too...
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Onkaparinga CFS/SES Group also is Rope Rescue. With Lenswood brigade having the equipment. But purely as a CFS rope rescue brigade...probably not hehe...probably the "SES side"...
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Athelstone????
Don't they have some form of rope recue gear????
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New topic time ;)
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Athlestone don't have it and Burnside do have some confined space gear but i don't think it is the same as "rope rescue".
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Was at a training meeting the other night at region and yes people there are only five approved rope rescue brigade's in CFS sure some brigades may have the gear but they are not approved RRB..As for onka cfs/ses that is a ses unit and comes under the ses banner I think you will find.
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Naracoorte
stirling
sellicks
robe
waikerie
are the only five CFS rope rescue brigade's in the state
Burnside have rope rescue gear/ confined space gear on the state hazmat appliance.
I also believe Nurioopta have rope rescue gear/ confined space gear also. Not a hundred percent certain on that, but I am certain about Burnside.
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Whats the general consensus on minimum rope rescue equipment.
I mean, theres not much you cant do with a harness, 100m of 11mm rope, a harpoon friction device, a couple of tape slings and a rescue sling...
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Yeah Nuri has confined space gear.
ropes, tripod, harnesses, and hooker line really.
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how do you set up the hooker line? Do you have a facemask/waistbelt set up? Or do you have to have the CABA on, just with the hooker line in the side?
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CFS has just done a audit of its RRB and there is going to be a meeting sometime soon at STC and there will also be training this financial year for the brigades that are approved rope rescue brigades... Confined space entry gear is not rope rescue gear these are two differant types of gear used for differant jobs...
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You have to wonder why the CFS don't add C/S gear to the brigades already rope rescue trained. It's not a whole lot more. Although you've then got to issue those brigades with gas detectors if they don't have them.
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C/S rescue gear is only a combination of Hazmat Gear and Rope Rescue gear. Maybe consider strategic placement of C/S gear to some hazmat brigades that way serving two roles....
and Bill I'd be interested to know what are the differences between a C/S kit and R/R kit, maybe you could enlighten us?
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there are a number of things that differ,3 thinks that come to mind are that GRN radios,torches, pagers that CFS supply are not electansicly(spelling?) safe and cfs needs to address this. I have only seen/done confine space entry at work and the gear that they had was some what differant to what we have as a rope rescue brigade. We are not a confine space entry brigade and I would like to see all rope rescue brigades do the confine space entry course when CFS offer it there are towns in rural areas that have large silos and this is one area where confine training would come in use. cfs would also have to look at supply are monitoring equipment to the rope rescue brigades that are not hazmat brigades'
Stefan I am sure you guys at burnside would know more about confine space than anyone else...But did CFS provide the training or was this training else where???
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intrinsically
blinky - the towns you refer to with silos etc, are more than likely covered by SES for confined space or vertical rescue.
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How many SES units actually do confined space rescue. I don't think that over the whole state there is too many SES Units or CFS brigades or MFS stations covering this specific response?
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There are not many SES.... Norlunga, and someone out west i think (having a mental blank - to early in the morniong ;) )
From the last time we discussed this, didnt we decide that CFS didnt provide a true 'vertical' course? Anyway, not a point to get hung up on....
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Anyway, not a point to get hung up on....
Oh mike, you're such a card... always with the puns :wink:
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How many SES units actually do confined space rescue. I don't think that over the whole state there is too many SES Units or CFS brigades or MFS stations covering this specific response?
I understand this is part of the SES USAR equipment & standard. Thus multiple SES Units around the state are training/equipping to this standard.
A course was recently postponed because of the weather incidents. The course is provided by an outside company & covers BA.
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Its an old chestnut, but still odd, that the SES is getting trained in C/S, yet the gear you should have eg: BA sets and Gas Detectors and pretty fire service specific.
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we have two BA sets at kapunda and two personel who can use them i am one we are tring to find out if there is a confined space/usar that the two of us can do so that we can be used for these type of jobs we also have vertical gear and people wanting to do the training so we can be vertrescue again
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are you getting more operators at kapunda?
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we are hopeful that some more members will do BA we have a few new guys that are keen to do it
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we have two BA sets at kapunda and two personel who can use them i am one we are tring to find out if there is a confined space/usar that the two of us can do so that we can be used for these type of jobs we also have vertical gear and people wanting to do the training so we can be vertrescue again
Contact SES Central Region Training staff (Wayne or Jennifer). If no success, then Trevor at SES SHQ is the co-ordinator.
I understand the BA course is run to a national industry standard, which is why Trevor organises an outside company to deliver & accreditate the training.
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Its an old chestnut, but still odd, that the SES is getting trained in C/S, yet the gear you should have eg: BA sets and Gas Detectors and pretty fire service specific.
The other aspect that has yet to be looked at is that of mining aspects do brigades that have mining in their responce area will they need some form of rope training. As 6793264 points out where does the SES and CFS role stop and start. I know this sounds like a post of cross posting that should be else where but the types of emergencies that either service is attending is changing over time.
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SES and CFS roles dont stop and start....infact youll find in the Fire Report templates a lot of SES responses are covered in the CFS fire report. CFS can be on scene to very SES orientated jobs, as support to SES teams if required...or simply be first responders...understand???
CFS and SES are/have come very blended services, who agrees with me...but they do serve there own purposes.
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... As 6793264 points out where does the SES and CFS role stop and start....
Personally, follow the signed agreement between the services. That the 'closest & most appropriate resource responds to the incident'. Then respond the specialist service for that incident type to assist the first responders with more equipment & training.
This happened brilliantly at the Long Plains silo incident (I think last year). Person had fallen into the silo.
Local CFS were first responders with SAAS. I believe CFS HAZMAT was responded to provide the specialised equipment to deal with the chemical hazzards. SES crews responded with vertical rescue & BA equipment.
Lets work together..
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Thats right, there is no line between what SES and fire service does. It sits something like this:
|___________What SES Does__________|
|________________________What the fire service does_________________________|
Notice how nearly everything that the SES does, the fire service does too?
Really, the only thing that the fire service doesn't expressly do is Land search.
Go figure :)
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[quote author=nomansland firefighter link=topic=1425.msg30491#msg30491
...The other aspect that has yet to be looked at is that of mining aspects do brigades that have mining in their responce area will they need some form of rope training...
[/quote]
Mine rescue is a specialised role that includes some existing rescue types (eg. vertical, cave & USAR) plus specialised skills & equipment. I believe Cooper Pedy is the only volunteer mine rescue crew. The other resources are from the mining companies.
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infact youll find in the Fire Report templates a lot of SES responses are covered in the CFS fire report.
dezzA - That dont mean shite...
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[quote author=nomansland firefighter link=topic=1425.msg30491#msg30491
...The other aspect that has yet to be looked at is that of mining aspects do brigades that have mining in their responce area will they need some form of rope training...
Mine rescue is a specialised role that includes some existing rescue types (eg. vertical, cave & USAR) plus specialised skills & equipment. I believe Cooper Pedy is the only volunteer mine rescue crew. The other resources are from the mining companies.
[/quote]
Andamooka also I believe.. - Well, underground rescue and C/S.
Whyalla and C/Pedy are also C/S resuce - To answer the question as to who was and wasnt, a few posts ago..
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Thats right, there is no line between what SES and fire service does. It sits something like this:
|___________What SES Does__________|
|________________________What the fire service does_________________________|
Notice how nearly everything that the SES does, the fire service does too?
Really, the only thing that the fire service doesn't expressly do is Land search.
Go figure :)
Not everything.. some forms of rescue the fire service does not have the training or equipment...training levels can be different for the incident type (eg CFS rope rescue compared to SES vertical rescue)
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Thats right, there is no line between what SES and fire service does. It sits something like this:
|___________What SES Does__________|
|________________________What the fire service does_________________________|
Notice how nearly everything that the SES does, the fire service does too?
Really, the only thing that the fire service doesn't expressly do is Land search.
Go figure :)
Not everything.. some forms of rescue the fire service does not have the training or equipment...training levels can be different as well for the incident type (eg CFS rope rescue training compared to SES vertical rescue training).
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Thats right, there is no line between what SES and fire service does. It sits something like this:
|___________What SES Does__________|
|________________________What the fire service does_________________________|
Notice how nearly everything that the SES does, the fire service does too?
Really, the only thing that the fire service doesn't expressly do is Land search.
Go figure :)
Not everything.. some forms of rescue the fire service does not have the training or equipment...training levels can be different for the incident type (eg CFS rope rescue compared to SES vertical rescue)
What doesn't the fire service do? Vehicle/Vertical/USAR/Confined Space/Trench, you name it, the fire service (Australia wide) will do it.
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well cfs are not trained in trench rescue so i guess that will be a ses/mfs job......
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....What doesn't the fire service do? Vehicle/Vertical/USAR/Confined Space/Trench, you name it, the fire service (Australia wide) will do it....
Agreed Oz wide... but in SA the authorities have deemed to specialise some forms of incident response.
I prefer this method compared to the 'all in one service' provided in NSW, QLD and WA.
I do not think any person (volunteer or paid) have enough time to learn all forms of incident response they might be required to attend. Certainly no one will ever have all of the equipment in a truck that they need to complete all possible incidents.
So I think it is fair that people have completed a 'potential risk analysis' for the communities and believe that the likely hood of a fire, RCR or tree down is high anywhere in SA. So multi-services have the equipment to protect the community from the risk.
But the likely hood that a building will collapse that requires the heat sensor camera, rock saw, quickcut, shoring and remote control camera probe is unlikely. But that equipment exists in Adelaide and MFS/SES have been trained in how to use this (USAR Cat3 course).
Part of risk mitigation is not to put all of your resources in the one basket..
** My thoughts & opinions only **
PS. Yes I can list specifics but do not feel it is worth it on a public forum. If you wish to debate specifics & live in Adelaide, we can meet to discuss/argue over a beer if you wish.
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If the logic is correct then the unit or brigade should be trained for the risks that it face. No matter what service it is then who so ever will need to have some form of training to be able to cope with initial part of the incident until specilist resourses and teams arrives. Maybe I am a bit nieve but time maybe a factor in some incidents and this should be taken into consideration when planning at brigade or group or regional levels. Some Brigade outside the city fringes and this is only my thoughts seem not to be spreading the workload and sharing it around. As an ealier remark was made that we shouldn't be putting all our eggs in one basket but maybe having two brigade or two units trained to respond will reduce the risk of not having enough members available for an incident.
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Putting all your eggs in one basket would be having a single brigade doing everything and no-one else doing a thing. Having an entire service doing all Fire & Rescue related things makes sense as you have equipment that can be used for multiple tasks.
House fire? Need the tic/demo saw its there when you need it. You don't have to respond another service. Large accident, need a thermal lance? Its already here on the rescue truck, no need to respond someone from t he other side of town with it, for a time critical extracation.
Bajdas, I think you'll find the USAR Cat3 Course is the admin and management course, Cat 2 is your operator course.
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House fire? Need the tic/demo saw its there when you need it. You don't have to respond another service. Large accident, need a thermal lance? Its already here on the rescue truck, no need to respond someone from t he other side of town with it, for a time critical extracation.
Who carrys a thermal lance is it SES / MFS or both. :?
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Bajdas, I think you'll find the USAR Cat3 Course is the admin and management course, Cat 2 is your operator course.
Correct
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Word is CFS are looking at taking on USAR
Any fact in it??
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Word is CFS are looking at taking on USAR
Any fact in it??
i dont think so... hope not, thatd just be another doubling of resources surely.
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why would CFS take on USAR when they dont even do land search to do USAR would mean so much extra training and purpose built appliances
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CFS would need to find some more RCR brigade's if they wanted to do USAR and more members to fill the gap on brigade's that are busy and dont have the members. Also its easy to say dont keep all your eggs in one basket but in country areas that is all you have one brigade that does it all as the others dont want to do it...
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why would CFS take on USAR when they dont even do land search to do USAR would mean so much extra training and purpose built appliances
Im not saying they will or wont, or suggesting they should.
They were asked if they wanted to be a part of it a while ago when USAR was first being established in SA, and declined.
I had heard they wanted to change their mind, but we all know how the rumour mill works..
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USAR has little to do with either land search or RCR. If you're going to comment on things, atleast try to know something about the subject.
(Yes I know both land search and USAR generally incorporate large amount of man power, line searches and rescue calls but thats pretty much where the similarities stop.)
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Just reflect on Thredbo....multiple services all working together to achieve the same outcome...saving a life :-)
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.
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Just reflect on Thredbo....multiple services all working together to achieve the same outcome...saving a life :-)
Except for the filtered ambos taking the limelight and media spotlight off those who really found Mr. Diver...
But anyhow...
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:roll:
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for us sill Billy's what is USAR ????????? :?
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for us sill Billy's what is USAR ????????? :?
Urban Search & Rescue