hey everyone,
what rope rescue gear do you have? Our captain showed us some of his own gear (its part of his business) which is pretty much what we would get. They included sit in harnesses, carabina's, this ribbon tapey type stuff for tying ropes to girders and so on, spine board and another type of stretcher that you clipped the person into. Looked like the same material as the salvage sheets.
So, post away!
the "ribbon tapey type stuff" is called 'rescue tape' .... technical i know ;)
haha...yeah i thought it would have been something like that!
I Think You Are Referring To The Straps Used To Create Ancor Points, Eg So You Can Tie Off To Trees.
We have a full set of rope rescue gear and it gets a good work out in the Naracoorte caves....
the 'rescue tape' would be in large loops? there slings, as other ppl have said, great for use in anchors. not sure what the second kind of stretcher you mean is... is it a soft stretcher? thats sort of built around the casualty? there are many variations...
Quotewhich is pretty much what we would get
hope this doesnt mean you guys are thinking of busting into the scene?? :-D :-D
ive got craploads of all that stuff.. minus the spinal board/resceu stretcher... good old rockclimbing days...
We want to get a rescue litter to put on our 24P down at Goolwa, because we do alot of work with SAAS with patient lifts out of old folks units, boats, beach etc..etc.. it would be really handy, but our group won't let us get it because they think that if we get it we might decide to get smart and try and do rope rescue type stuff with it, which is stupid, because they don't trust us we don't get a handy piece of equippment. :|
But even if our group did approve it, it would be up to region to approve it aswell i suppose???
the stelth borads are good for short lifts from the floor into the ambos trolley and great to get people out of the car..
The litter would be better, because quite often we get people out of windows and it would be especially good out of boats because the litter has got sides at least.
i have a theory that at least all rescue brigades should have a stokes... re; spinal boards, why bother when every ambulance carries a full & a half length?
a stokes wuld be good for all brigades, as any of us can be called to assist saas, but probly not too feasible...
Stokes is good but it is no good at MVA's comes in use when taking people out the window of a house have done this a couple of times.Some ambos dont have the stelth board they have the old hard yello back boards....
what exactly is a stealth board??? i know for a fact that ALL saas ambulances have a full length and a half on board...
The Vollies at Goolwa or the IC Paramedics at Victor Harbor don't have the half length i've never seen the half length on an ambulance before...
They've got these new spinal boards that are thicker than the old ones and are bright orange, i can tell you thicker doesn't mean stronger, we had a patient lift and the person was around 160kgs and i can say now that i've seen a spinal board bow 6-8inches in the middle.
So for anyone out there looking to get a spinal board for their appliance find an old yellow one they are much stronger (Another piece of useless info for everyone 8-))
Off topic but medevac, I have been to a few jobs were we have had to remove a deceased patient and the ambos have left the scene and we have needed the extracation board
ahhh that'd suck. thats where improvisation comes in :wink:
chances are if there dead then there not going to complain... so use the 'little giant ladder' or something liek that if you can get it under them.
I shall take a photo and post,what happened to respect the dead medevac???
by all means respect... im just saying you dont have to worry so much about discomfort/aggravatig injuries through movement as much...
a ladder with a blanket on it is a good alternative to a spinal board.
But is the ladder an approved CFS lifting tool????? or is there a SOP on a ladder being used to lift someone :lol:
phht... i wouldnt know if there an 'approved lifting tool'... but they are rated to take certain hundreds of kilos generally... does the heirachy really need to know anyway? who, at a brigade level, is going to car?
All I can say is big brother is watching..........
Its time to go..............................................................................................DOA
This is big brother, take the ladder to the diary room, err ambulance.
I been eating too many scotch fingers..
Big brother here is a BOMB :evil:(joke)
Quote from: rescue5271 on May 10, 2006, 07:00:47 PM
We have a full set of rope rescue gear and it gets a good work out in the Naracoorte caves....
Blinky. Just for my curiosity. Do you carry a Larkin frame as well as the crabs, whaletails, slings, etc ?
^^i believe they do. full vertical rescue kit, should be same stowage as any SES vertical kit.
Quote from: medevac on May 15, 2006, 08:22:32 AM
^^i believe they do. full vertical rescue kit, should be same stowage as any SES vertical kit.
If so, where do they stow and transport it ?
Have completed some training during the last few montyhs at a Metro SES Unit and they have problems finding the space to store the Larkin Frame, Rescue Litter, vertical backpacks and 50m/100m rope packs in the heavy rescue truck.
I assume they have a small appliance for Rescue with the gear stowed ?
they have a stand alone rescue appliance so presumably in there...
Yep we have it all on our rescue unit which is a stand alone unit and well worth the money to get for our group and the region...
im ur case a standalone is good, so long as ya can get the pumper out the doors too... but im a bigger fan of the pumprescues and 24p/34p's were rescue gear always rolls with a pump & water...
We always have the pumper or 34 following us or if we are going into a rural brigade area there applinaces along with our fire applinaces is always there..
Are Stirling and Naracoorte the only CFS brigades that are Rope rescue trained? I mean, not just carrying a bit of gear on the trucks, but actually trained in its usage. I may be totally wrong, but I was under the impression that there were not many brigades trained as it is, tradionally, the role of the SES.
Quote from: Toast on May 16, 2006, 12:50:30 PM
Are Stirling and Naracoorte the only CFS brigades that are Rope rescue trained? I mean, not just carrying a bit of gear on the trucks, but actually trained in its usage. I may be totally wrong, but I was under the impression that there were not many brigades trained as it is, tradionally, the role of the SES.
I understand CFS Nuriootpa has equipment & training, but not recognised. Not sure of the equipment carried by the SES truck in the CFS shed near Oakbank.
I would have thought more equipment on Eyre Peninsula or the more remote northern parts of SA.
Quote from: Toast on May 16, 2006, 12:50:30 PM
Are Stirling and Naracoorte the only CFS brigades that are Rope rescue trained? I mean, not just carrying a bit of gear on the trucks, but actually trained in its usage. I may be totally wrong, but I was under the impression that there were not many brigades trained as it is, tradionally, the role of the SES.
Believe Burnside, Athelstone, and Blackwood might be???
mmm as far as i know the only "vertical rescue brigade" as such is naracoorte...
burnside is a confined space trained brigade...
but other than that i believe there are no others that necessarily do it....
Naracoorte and robe are vert rescue
As are Sellicks Beach
Just look on teh CFS promo site........
But that would be easy and logical now wouldn't it? C'mon, We're in the CFS! :-D
Quote from: mundcfs on May 17, 2006, 11:01:33 PMAs are Sellicks Beach
I Don't Know If They Are Listed Anywhere As I Don't Think They Get All Call's As There Was A Cliff Rescue At Aldinga & I Don't Believe Sellicks Got Called To It.
ses went to that was on the pager site...
Quote from: probie_boy on May 18, 2006, 08:55:26 AM
But that would be easy and logical now wouldn't it? C'mon, We're in the CFS! :-D
Yes sure, go through all 430+ brigades one at a time! :P
Yes Andrew you are right about Nuri. We have the gear and are trained but not recognised at the moment.. We are currently getting all new replacement gear as the old stuff is near its lifespan. It gets used now and then mainly for training.
Just another training course to do and maintain......
I have my own sit in harness, carabeenas, descenders , chalk bag, few other bits and pieces..
Just need to get some dynamic and static rope..
Yeah I Have My Own Gear As Well. I Go Rock Climbing & Abseiling But Doesn't Mean I Can Use It On The Job.
^ Didn't say it did, is however fun for using privately on the weekends on rock walls... :-P
Sellicks are accredited for low angle stretcher rescue. It was approved as a change to their sfec about 5 years ago.
Naracoorte brigade had a nice drive to Robe last Friday night,just after training the brigade along with robe brigade where paged for a cliff Rescue at the oblisk at robe..With fast removal of rescue gear from the rescue the crew of 5 where on their way for a nice drive. SES where also paged from, kingston and mount gambier,from what the guys said they all worked well and Naracoorte crews arrived home at 0430hrs... Mind you they tell us it was a good night to go fishing so may be its time we put fishing rods on that rescue... :roll:
you removed the RCR gear from the rescue truck???
what happens if you get paged to another job on the way home, or need it for some reason at the rope rescue...
Cybercitizen the rescue at aldinga was originally paged as port noarlunga then repaged with the correct address about 15 min later. As far as i know because kyeema group have not set up all their responses on the cad data base at mfs sellicks will not appear on it yet but i know it has been discussed at a group level already.
Quote from: medevac on June 29, 2006, 08:38:52 AM
you removed the RCR gear from the rescue truck???
what happens if you get paged to another job on the way home, or need it for some reason at the rope rescue...
What happens if they get an RCR in Naracoorte they would have to wait for Penola to get there, so you can always put the gear on another applaiance for another job. If they needed they're rescue gear for the job, Robe has a set, and i'd say Kingston would've had theirs there as well.
makes absoloutely no sense to remove the gear... firstly the time you save by having les weight on board is probly negated by the fact that youve slowed your response time... plus it makes no sense to remove gear off the truck that may be beneficial to the job.
just stating the facts..
Medevac,come down to the real world open your eyes and you will see how a remote RCR brigade works,we dont have the luxary of rcr brigade around the corner and over the hill. It does not matter if the RCR gear is removed from our rescue does it??? so who where we going to get to cover our area when two SES rescue units where also involved??? and lest face it you can do alot with what we took of the appliances and put into our pumper and car two..As for the guys being paged for a RCR on the way home well that may or may not have happened and lets face it we had the gear on other appliances..... Time some people came and see just what the other half of the CFS do rather than attack them for there actions....
mate im willing to bet i have more of an idea about CFS as a state wide service than you, and just as much of an idea about the use of mutliple services at jobs...
personally i just think the rescue gear, should go to the rescue... with the rescue truck...
but thats just muy opinion. sure i can see the benefit of having RCR gear available to put on other appliances and taken to other jobs...
lay off me
Medevac, what you are saying is very true, however I think in most cases the rope rescue equipment is considered a different resource to the road crash equipment. As such, sending the rope rescue equipment separate from RCR equipment isn't breaking your rescue response at all...
There was no way that the rope rescue gear would fit into a command car so it was easy just to remove the road accident gear.....
hold 5.
so u took the road crash rescue gear off so the rope rescue gear would fit?
if so; i was unaware the rope rescue wasnt permanently stowed on the RCR truck
i understand that.
Well medevac,you have it wrong naracoorte rescue has a whole locker that hold cave and rope rescue gear in it and it works well for us.......
well then i m still at a loss for words...
:|
Next time your in town come and have a good look..........
lol, sorry to confuse things medevac... I'll keep out of it now... :oops:
It's simple.... your travelling a huge distance out of area for a vert. rescue job, your nearest RCR backup for your town is 50km away, why not spend 2 minutes taking your RCR gear off your rescue for the "in case of jobs" that way if theres an RCR while your rescue is out your not spending 45 minutes at an MVA waiting for 2nd rescue to arrive to do a job that could have been done if you used a bit of foresight to leave equipment behind that you don't need at the initial job, but may be needed within your own area???? Especially if you do a high number of MVA's.....
You come across a rescue on the way there / way home ? Still waiting for the gear arent you..
Bit of a 50/50... However being a rescue truck, you should probably carry it on at all times... - But... I don't know how things work down your way so can't really comment ... However I understand where both blinky and medevac are both coming from..
:mrgreen:
blinky - ill PM ya next time im on my way down,dont reallly get down that way much... and will have to have a look around the station and rigs.
no problems mate and anyone else that is down this way and wants to have a look give me a buzz..
the ses runs 3 full weekend coarses in relation to vertical rescue. the first being vertical access of which members are introduced to the various vertical rescue equipment and are tought the limitations (swl) and usage of equipment. They also learn how to set up various anchorage, desend and assend a 11mm single rescue rope.
the second phase is called vertical technician. with the use of the larkin frame and the three building block approach the rescuer will be taught the technique of performing a sling rescue to a un injured casualty stuck on a cliff or from a height. the rescuers are taught to set up the load line which is the main line off the cliff to the casualty and brake line and haul line which are bolt on rigs for a lifting operation if required.
phase three is similar to phase two in that you use the same system in the larkin frame with lowering and lifting except the rescuer will recover a injured casualty from a cliff or height with the use of a basket stretcher. some additional specialised anchorage systems and 1 on 1 rescues are also taught.
the ses uses a very safe vertical rescue system and the training given by the state instructors is excellent.
Quote from: shane on October 23, 2006, 05:57:26 PM
They also learn how to set up various anchorage, desend and assend a 11mm single rescue rope.
the ses uses a very safe vertical rescue system and the training given by the state instructors is excellent.
:?
Quote from: 2090 on October 24, 2006, 01:15:23 AM
Quote from: shane on October 23, 2006, 05:57:26 PM
They also learn how to set up various anchorage, desend and assend a 11mm single rescue rope.
the ses uses a very safe vertical rescue system and the training given by the state instructors is excellent.
:?
Sorry, I dont understand what you are implying. Because yes the training is VERY SAFE.
I think he's implying that a SINGLE rope rescue system isn't as safe as the double rope system the CFS uses (That's what I understand from the bolded words)...
Oh well, I think I should agree to disagree on the 'single rope rescue technique being safe to use'. Have been taught those techniques when I first joined SES and they are still taught.
The primary instructor (now Deputy Chief Officer) physically did the breaking strain tests on the ropes to prove no problems. As previously stated each piece of equipment is physically checked before use and protected during use. SWL's are strictly enforced.
CFS and SES have different techniques which I hope the instructors of both CFS & SES will resolve in the future has a common standard is developed in training.
I certainly have no problems being a exercise casualty in the stretcher of a single rope technique rescue be SES trained volunteers.
Slightly offtopic, but in the same field: Do the SES teach the method of always having 3 points of contact (like climbing a ladder you have 3 limbs on the rounds, or on a cliff edge 2 feet on the ground plus a rope attached to waist)?
Always have 3 points of contact....taught from Basic Rescue course onwards
So with a single rope system, what's the third point of contact?
If the rest of this thread is to suggest anything, it is that you don't appear to understand that Rope Systems can fail well within their SWL. Its not about the rope itself breaking, its about the system failing. A Karabiner with a weakness, maybe dropped, maybe a factory fault. Maybe your firetail lets go. Maybe your anchor wasnt such a great anchor after all...
I dont understand how, when there is a safer option available, its not taken.
QuoteI dont understand how, when there is a safer option available, its not taken.
Probably the same reason why all CFS vols don't wear structural helmets, and drive to bushfires in firekings... But with something so simple and financially viable, I get your point...
Quote from: CFS_Firey on October 25, 2006, 02:36:58 AM
QuoteI dont understand how, when there is a safer option available, its not taken.
Probably the same reason why all CFS vols don't wear structural helmets, and drive to bushfires in firekings... But with something so simple and financially viable, I get your point...
They gave us Bushwackers and said only use structure helmet for structure jobs not allowed to be worn at rural jobs :lol:
I know which one Id rather wear :wink:
Quote from: CFS_Firey on October 24, 2006, 05:34:46 PM
So with a single rope system, what's the third point of contact?
2 Feet on the cliff face ;)
-----------------
If you were to be in a free fall environment (ie: off the middle of a bridge) are you going to use 3 ropes?
All theories are not always practical.... unfortunately
And when did CFS have verticle instructors?????
To the best of my knowledge the original verticle training to some CFS brigades was by SES, then other have used a private provider - who, of course wil only promote the system they use - i.e. twin line.
Seach the net and you will see O/S where there are specialist teams for verticle resuce, who undertake many resuces each year, that use single line resuce. Twin line in SA has been introduced by a private provider and through their association with MFS.
Quote from: CFS_Firey on October 24, 2006, 05:34:46 PM
So with a single rope system, what's the third point of contact?
I will take the bait now :evil:
First the disclaimer, I am not currently accredited in Vertical Rescue so some of the information could be 'out of date'....
But, the single rope is the least point of failure in the system. If you are completing a rescue litter rescue, then you use a climbing rope of greater diameter than a single person rescue (I think 13mm or above).
This rope has a huge breaking strain of approx 5 tonne. (Blue water ropes (http://www.bluewaterropes.com/home/productsdetail.asp?Channel=Recreation&Group=Ropes&GroupKey=1&Category=Static%20Ropes&CategoryKey=3&ProdKey=141)). The prussic lines, slings, knots in the Weston rig have less capacity and thus more of a concern.
So within SES we trust the rope implicitly because it is checked, logged and re-checked. Multi-point anchors are used whenever available.
So the three-points of contact for the rescuer are attachment to stretcher, attachment to rope above stretcher knots (via chest & waist harness) and physical to cliff (last one is dubious).
Other methods used by CFS in vertical rescue are banned within SES (eg seat belt devices delivered with rescue litters are not used. Each casualty is lashed into the stretcher at all times).
Has I stated before, lets agree to disagree until a multi-service standard is issued. But SES have done vertical rescue training for 30+ years that I have been associated with them..... :wink:
EDIT: Changed the link so it wouldn't make the page too wide
Ok, I see your point, and won't argue further, except to clear up a few points (replying to various posts):
The purpose of the 2 rope system in CFS is to duplicate everything, not just the rope (So if the crabs do fail, there is a backup)... We're not particularly worried about the rope either...
The third point of contact can't really be reliant on the other (ie if the rope fails, you lose 2 of your points). The same goes for the 2 feet on the cliff being counted as 2 points). However as someone said, its only a guide and can't be practically achieved all the time...
The CFS does not use the seatbelts on the stokes litter for cliff rescue - we use tapes to lash the person in as well... The seatbelts are used when carrying a patient on horizontal surfaces (Like patient lift for SAAS).
Finally, saying that over seas services only use 1 rope means nothing... After all, the SES does many rescues a year, and only uses one rope, and I'm still arguing with them! (Not to mention some of the things the US fire depts do that we wouldn't dream of doing, even though they're an overseas service that does many fires a year)...
When I did my RR course a couple of years ago, the instructor said the SES was looking into moving to a main and belay system.... I take it this wasn't ever mentioned to the volunteers?
Well, as CFS_Firey suggested, you still cant see past your rope. Its the duplication of the system to allow for any (no matter how rare) incident of a part of the system breaking. Nothing*should* break as, yes its checked, logged, etc etc, but if it does, I like having my arse covered.