SA Firefighter

Quote from: boredmatrix on February 28, 2011, 06:39:32 AM
the stigma isn't because they're uni trained.

the stigma is because they're all coming out with the attitude that they know everything already - and then they fall over at the first hurdle they get to in a job when you let them go.

granted- they're not all like it, but the majority will speak for the minority.

the best ones are those who've had a life outside of ambulance and have gone back to study and then come out on the road.  At least they have the ability to talk to someone without being aggressive, condescending or downright rude! (and that's not even the patients!)

fair enough bored.
I have a lot of respect foir paramedics and for the profession. so i know that personally i'll always approach this career path with a lot of humility.Now especially, after seeing how graduates tend to be perceived, and what's lead to this perception...
cheers

the figures aren't as bad as what i thought. as for the stigma though...

while i understand some of these interns may not be up to par, those sorts of generalizations are still unfair.
I wonder if Dr. Grantham's involvement with FUSA will affect the way in which graduates are received by SAAS...?

I agree, the WA model looks good. It'd become clear pretty quickly who works well in a practical sense and who doesn't...

But we do have 500hrs practical placement here, and a lot of your mark comes from practical examination. So as long as you take the candidates with good GPAs, then practical adeptness shouldn't be an issue.
To me the complusory two years of post yr12 work is meaningless. Although I guess they'd need a few years to get their full licence...

edit... what's your experience with students on placement/ para interns been like?

"Also, don't think that an internship is the same as a job. Initially only a small percentage of the first graduate groups actually got into SAAS at paramedic level."

How many graduates got the internship? And how many interns progressed to become paramedics?
And is the internship unique to SA? You've made it sound as though someone with a para degree will have trouble gaining employment here. How does this compare to interstate?>

"Questions were asked in parliament as to why SAAS was not employing SA graduates etc etc."

Why weren't they?

What's the 'veteran' paramedic's view on the graduates applying for these internships? I hope they aren;tautomatically presumed to be incapable of doing a job they've studied for 3 years to do... simply because they haven't had as many birthdays as everyone else, or because they haven't taken the traditional pathway.


"The downside of this is that SAAS generally takes the easy way out and tends to offers unsuccessful interns ESS/PTS positions rather than giving them the flick - topping up the Non Emergency COF/FDP gene pool"

Have the unsuccessful graduates been employed in NEPT on a permanent basis? Does SAAS have a view to try and upgrade these graduates to paramedic level in the future?

Quote from: No Care 1 on January 18, 2011, 05:54:09 AM

Quote from: amboman69 on January 17, 2011, 10:55:51 PM
A bunch of new PTS cars are starting next week covering 24/7 and they are a little stretched for staff to fill the extra shifts.  Have heard a rumour that the latest bunch of casuals will be the last ones advertised for in the usual way and that future casuals will be drawn from the Uni ranks. No real substance to this, just something I heard on the road

You are right a course started yesterday from what I believe. They are all uni students or graduates who are waiting to start their internship later this year. They are on a temp. 5 month PTS contract. They do a 2 week quick training course only and must work with a qualified Cert. 4 Transport Officer. I had heard the PTS casual recruitment and course, due to start in Late Feb/Early March had been cancelled, but it might be rescheduled later?

does anyone know how far into the degree you need to be before you're eligible to apply for NEPT with SAAS or an equivalent provider?
would a student who has done their first year at flinders (and has consequently been trained to bls level) be eligible?
If so, is it plausible (time-wise) to work as a PTO while you study?

And would experience as a PTO significantly improve the student's employability with SAAS as a paramedic...?

cheers

cool, thanks for taking the time to reply to my qus samfs!
Ah, i forgot about the SPRINT cars. Which stations do the single responders/icps operate out of?

when i said western suburbs, i meant the glenelg area/beach suburbs  :-D

Quote from: SAMFS09 on December 27, 2010, 08:46:44 AM

Quote from: jayc on December 26, 2010, 08:47:34 PM
are there normally enough crews?

Marion, Brooklyn Park and Camden Park run one emergency ambulance out of station each. Lately Marion have been using ATS crews for assistance at cat A's. Also keep in mind crews at Asford control parts of the west too.   

Do most stations run just one emergency ambulance?

As far as i know, 2 ambulances get despatched to cat A's? How how often are they both emergency ambulances with paramedic crews?

Are SAAS looking at employing more paramedics to reduce any sort of dependence on NEPT crews?

ah, i see
fulham and pt. adel though? are they ever despatched to the western suburbs? between camden park/brooklyn park/marion, are there normally enough crews?

which station(s) cover the western suburbs? glenelg, brighton? i know there's one opposite the police station on sturt? road... are there any other stations nearby?

Thanks for all the info, no care.

Quote from: disOrderly on November 06, 2010, 04:41:10 PM
As we have said before, age is not necessarily a pre-requisite for maturity/life experience. I've seen people many years my senior do frustratingly stupid and immature things that I would not have even considered doing at 14 let alone 19 :)

yeah, well said!

ahhh, that's devestating...
Can you begin the education/qualification process before you reach the necessary age?
And does anyone know what sort of training you receive? Certificate/diploma in emergency pre-hospital care or something...?

Oh right... I'm not sure where I got Stirling from then, haha :?
Thanks for the info! Much appreciated, straps

yep, a bit too young at the moment. Next year though, I could apply at Stirling maybe. That's not toooo far away.

no care - that's cool. I appreciate your honesty. I'm still going to apply (at FUSA) though. Be it I get employed interstate or wherever, I still really want the job. And it is possible - to be successful at a young age. It has to be; otherwise they'd have an age limit. Anyway, I'm confident in my interpersonal skills, and so on :-)

If everything goes well, I will have been a lifeguard for a number of years when I finish uni.
I want to volunteer for an emergency service as well... but where do you go/where are you eligible to go, if you live in the metropolitan....?:?

Quote from: boredmatrix on October 29, 2010, 11:11:31 PM
lol...are they likely to?

It is the ONLY way they do it!  The only exception is mature age students...but again- fresh out of uni.

And you're right about the traits that people have...some young ones are wise beyond their years.....but that seems to be increasingly rare these days!

haha yes,,, good point. Maybe i should have worded that a little differently... What I mean is, would a mature age be much more likely to get a job than a 20 year old grad, simply because they have more life experience? Or would they look moreso at things like GPA etc...? If there aren't many positions being made available, they can be picky - and I hope this doesn't mean the younger applicants will miss out.

Quote from: boredmatrix on October 29, 2010, 02:05:21 PM

Quote from: disOrderly on October 29, 2010, 03:07:18 AM

It frustrates me that FU only accept people purely on grades.

and herein lies the problem.  Gen Y's who can study and spew forth knowledge - yet can't talk to a psychotic or violent aggressive patient!  Life experience is significantly under-rated - not to mention the lack of empathy and the "whats in it for me?" attitude! 

on the other side of it....the same attitude/lack of experience also means you can laugh your filtered off at them when they get covered in Spew or Vomit because they don't know how to do it any other way!!

In my opinion, one's ability to confidently and appropriately deal with altered patients etc has a number of determinants. I think trait assertiveness, intelligence are most important.  Some will acquire good people skills at a younger age; so it's impossible to accurately judge someone's social  (adapt)ability on the basis of age or life experience.
Getting back to my first question, what is SAAS's views on this? Are they likely to employ a graduate fresh out of uni, with no life experience...?

Quote from: disOrderly on October 28, 2010, 01:00:17 PM
This has also helped me guys.

My only problem is I can't afford to leave the state to study (have my job, great work colleagues, family, friends) and my income is vital to my mum and I when it comes to everyday expenses.

Despite the fact that FUs degree doesn't seem to be that happy atm, I feel its probably the most appropriate.

Also, despite my shortcomings with Strath, I have applied to work at Goolwa as a volly. Interesting to see that Goolwa does more jobs than a metro station!

Have you applied for next year's intake, disOrderly?

No Care - I definitely wouldn't have voted for Foley&Rann... if I were old enough to vote that is haha... I agree that we, like vic, nsw, qld, should employ more qualified paramedics (but then again, my opinion is a little biased :-P).
An article I read the other day made a similar point, saying: if they aren't willing to staff our stations with career paramedics, they're "not just hurting [prospective paramedics], they're also hurting the essential services to all people that this government has a duty to deliver."

Quote from: bittenyakka on October 27, 2010, 07:18:10 PM
This is a good thread, i am not in and emergency service in a paid role and i kinda get the dream of not wanting a dull job and doing cool stuff etc. Remember it isn't so much about what you are doing ( that  does count) but who you work with. Also every job has its bad/boring bits and SAAS/MFS... .will be no different.

thanks bittenyakka, those are some good points;
I think this job would attract a very particular type of person, and I like to believe, that if you were to become a paramedic, you'd work alongside like-minded people. And you're right - I'm sure this job has its boring bits; but (in my opinion) the positives would outweigh the negatives. :-)

I'm reaaallly looking forward to uni next year, and to developing a better understanding of this job after some sort of practical placement! .......assuming I actually get a spot in the degree that is

Quote from: misterteddy on October 27, 2010, 12:59:55 PM

Quote from: 6739264 on October 27, 2010, 10:46:04 AM
In all seriousness, (for this post only) ...

Numbers.....you do this again and we are going to lose respect for you...  :lol:

JayC...numbers does raise a number of good points and they are well worth considering. The SOT and ICP processes in SAAS are very nefarious and somewhat incestuous. I'm sure to become a successful SOT candidate you need a picture of one of the senior management team in a compromising position with a farmyard animal. Contrast that with ACT for instance, where everyone joining the service is on a career path to become an ICP, and as part of your normal job rotation (thats right, no spending your career in a single station in BumfXXknowhere, protected from scrutiny) you rotate through the Snowy Rescue helicopter.

Be wary about thinking every day is a new adventure in the job. Currently, that is one of the biggest reasons for being disillusioned given by new grads after a few years on the road. Doesnt matter how u dress it up, the boring and repetitive stuff will always be just that - and theres a good deal of it; it's not all about getting your SPRINT car airborne over a traffic island at an intersection - or maybe it should be  :evil:

I'm sure Boredy will offer you his pearls of wisdom regards his career.....just be wary if he asks you to try on the sheep costume  :-P

Haha! Well, if I ever did end up getting employed by SAAS, at least I'd know my colleagues have a good sense of humour  :lol:

Thanks for the info, i really appreciate it.
i'll look into ACTAS... do they employ grad students? In fact, do any canberaa universities offer a paramedic course? :? Sounds interesting though!

Quote from: 6739264 on October 27, 2010, 10:46:04 AM
In all seriousness, (for this post only) the other consideration you may want to investigate is career progression.

I am but a simple Fireman, and do not know the numbers, but look at the number of positions available for specialisations such as SOT/ USAR in SAAS and then compare them with other interstate organisations. Based on the fact that Vic/NSW/Qld are states with significantly larger populations and a larger area to cover, they are, by this fact alone, able to offer you more positions in vastly different roles down the track...

The other thing that lies behind the interstate suggestion is that you're obviously still young and essentially unattached (I imagine you dont have kids!) which means you're in a unique position to begin your employment in ANY service you want country wide. You'd be mad not to look at those that will be able to offer you better career progression than SAAS.

6739264 - Thanks for the input! SAAS employs fewer paramedics than QAS etc, so, althogh there may be fewer positions for 'specialisation' here, it would be proportional to the (smaller) number of paramedics employed.
I've never considered career progression in great depth before. Paramedics would be a unique sort of job, in that I can't see it getting boring or being very monotonous. Consequently, keeping the same role or title for a long time wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. I'll look into how paramedics reach ICP or SOT status; but that's probably getting a bit ahead of myself!

You're right - I am young; I'm only 17 and I guess I am unattached; I don't have any kids... I hope, haha... and I I even have a couple of family members dotted around the country  :-). I certainly won't rule out the possibility of future interstate employment - judging by some of the comments re: job availabilities in SAAS, it sounds like working interstate might not be a choice or liberty; but rather the only option!

I'm not sure if there are any SOT/ICP paramedics on this forum? Boredmatrix sounds like an experienced career paramedic... it would be interesting to hear about how he got to where he is!

thanks alot, boredmatrix  :-)

"as for your comment about the motivation of rewarding and exciting work...don't worry - it will pass after about 8 years and you'll just become cynical and cranky like the rest of us public servants who enjoy a nice lunchtime walk from Vic Square to Parliament house on a Tuesday!!" - Haha! Well, we'll see  :lol:

Quote from: misterteddy on October 26, 2010, 06:00:31 PM
so why tie yourself to SAAS and Flinders. To be honest, the Flinder degree has a crap reputation, certainly not helped by the fact that SAAS and Flinders have had a lovers tiff of some substance for a while. Not sure if they have kissed and put out yet

It's a big wide world of pre-hospital emergency practice out there....dont just follow the sheep, look at other Uni's with better degrees, better facilitated clinical blocks, better teaching facilities, better online/distance learning (not hard to beat Flinders effort of none!)

At least 3 services are recruiting now -  The Jacks in WA, QAS and ACTAS. WA is quite exciting with a new Clinical Director onboard who should shake the Johnnies up a fair bit. That said....if being a degree qualified paramedic and still running Nanna to the x-ray unit then home again is your thing......feel free to stay in safe and homely SA

Wow, you've given me some interesting points to consider. I have always wondered about applying for the same degree interstate, at a uni that offers more hours of placement/has a better relationship with their ambulance service than Flinders!
I guess it would be a little naive of me to stick around in Adelaide, and complete a degree that won't necessarily get me anywhere.
I definitely don't want to be just 'running nanna to the x-ray unit and home again'; if I were to do 3 years of paramedics, only to be employed as a PTO in SA, it would be sort of unfulfilling, or, anticlimactic... i dunno... I mean there are numerous health care degrees that I could apply for - physio, OT, podiatry, radiology - but, like PTO, it just wouldn't be as fulfilling as being a paramedic

I'll definitely look into the QAS, and have a long think about how their courses differ from ours.
Cheers mate

Quote from: 6739264 on October 26, 2010, 02:14:03 PM

Quote from: jayc on October 26, 2010, 01:46:38 PM

Quote from: 6739264 on October 26, 2010, 01:22:56 PM

Quote from: jayc on October 26, 2010, 12:49:24 PM
I don't want to work for a govt.run ambulance service because it's a "cosy, tuck you into bed in night, state run service;" I want to work at SAAS or somewhere equivalent in the future, because of the nature of the work. NEPT doesn't appeal to me as a job prospect.

Then you've already made the decision to move interstate?

I plan on doing the paramedics degree at flinders, applying for an internship at SAAS, and if unsuccessful, looking at NSWAS, QAS etc. I have come to understand that employment opportunities for paramedics with SAAS are scarce, and accept that I maaayyy have to move interstate in the future; I haven't "made the decision" to move interstate.

But you said you didn't want cosy nights in bed and want to join "for the nature of the work"....?

Whether or not working for the SAAS is 'comfortable' doesn't bother me. What I mean is what really motivates me to become a paramedic is the rewarding and exciting nature of the high acuity/emergency work

Quote from: 6739264 on October 26, 2010, 01:22:56 PM

Quote from: jayc on October 26, 2010, 12:49:24 PM
I don't want to work for a govt.run ambulance service because it's a "cosy, tuck you into bed in night, state run service;" I want to work at SAAS or somewhere equivalent in the future, because of the nature of the work. NEPT doesn't appeal to me as a job prospect.

Then you've already made the decision to move interstate?

I plan on doing the paramedics degree at flinders, applying for an internship at SAAS, and if unsuccessful, looking at NSWAS, QAS etc. I have come to understand that employment opportunities for paramedics with SAAS are scarce, and accept that I maaayyy have to move interstate in the future; I haven't "made the decision" to move interstate.

I wonder how other state run ambulance services fair compared to SAAS...? Do they have the same selection criteria as SAAS (paramedical science/health science (paramedic) degree)... or do some still offer on the job (cert. IV)training? If so, is there any point in spending 3 years and 25000 dollars completing the paramedics degree here in SA only to end up working at say QAS, where (I think) they still offer that sort of route?

misterteddy - I'm well aware of the job shortages that various uni students may face. I was just pointing out that maybe the universities should be more conscious of this and adjust the number of places they offer accordingly

I don't want to work for a govt.run ambulance service because it's a "cosy, tuck you into bed in night, state run service;" I want to work at SAAS or somewhere equivalent in the future, because of the nature of the work. NEPT doesn't appeal to me as a job prospect.

dis0rderly - I completely agree

no care - that's a bummer... there will be maybe 20 paramedic graduates applying? So I wonder what those 18 or 19 unsuccessful applicants will do? I mean I guess SAAS will just have a lot of overqualified PTOs...?

It's a little reckless on Flinders' behalf - the amount of positions they're offering obviously doesn't represent the demand. But then again, 3 years ago... when they took in this year's graduates, they couldn't have predicted the increase in wages, and that all of a sudden it would become a much more desirable job......

Either way, I still want to do the course. I'd prefer not to go interstate... but what do you do? The lower wage wouldn't bother me; but I assume that's one of the main reasons behind the shortage of staff over there.