should all cfs/mfs stations take over rcr from ses

[chook]

Ah so you guys what more stand alone rescue appliances & know where over 68 fully equipped trucks are without having to spend a cent - the plot thickens

[6739264]

Ah so you guys what more stand alone rescue appliances & know where over 68 fully equipped trucks are without having to spend a cent - the plot thickens

Thats why you take those trucks, repaint them, and place them into their local fire stations!

A rescue truck in a fire station can do everything that an SES one can *AND* more! 

[chook]

Ok you win! (joking of course)Won't wear yellow but

[6739264]

Ok you win! (joking of course)Won't wear yellow but

Its ok, we can all wear baby poo brown!

[Mike]

So as a cost saving measure you repaint the truck, then have to add bays to all the stations so they have somewhere to live......

There are a myriad of reasons to join the services, there are just as many not to... and examples of how each can and cant work through australia.

The key is finding a balance between the both.

[6739264]

So as a cost saving measure you repaint the truck, then have to add bays to all the stations so they have somewhere to live......

There are a myriad of reasons to join the services, there are just as many not to... and examples of how each can and cant work through australia.

The key is finding a balance between the both.

Think of the money saved even in salaries of the SES paid staff. Good grief don't get me started on the moeny that could be saved with a single fire service

[chook]

So as a cost saving measure you repaint the truck, then have to add bays to all the stations so they have somewhere to live......

There are a myriad of reasons to join the services, there are just as many not to... and examples of how each can and cant work through australia.

The key is finding a balance between the both.

No No you take over our buildings too
Mines been half taken over already
We won't be leaving the beer behind but!
"Think of the money saved even in salaries of the SES paid staff."
You obviously don't know how many paid staff there are in SES - I doubt if it would pay for 4-5 34ps 
All jokes aside, I think the practical difficulties would far outway the benefits.
Having enough crews for one, operational differences, competing priorities & you would loose a fair percentage of members for several reasons as you said they join one service over another because of the speciality of that service i.e. fire fighters like combating fire, rescue members like rescue - may not like fire at all!
Then there is the personality thing - the knob head factor, the reason some join a particular unit/ brigade /service is they don't like the person who runs the other brigade (knob head!).
As you and others have said it would be better to learn how to use each others capabilities & to call us when required instead of trying to "merge us".
Any way it is not going to happen and I think I have made my feelings pretty clear so - cheers

[sesroadcrashrescue]

i was talking to a state officer fro SES last Thursday and he said that there would be no merging of services at all there will remain three services for rescue and two for fire.
 they have done it in WA and has not been a good outcome with services now not being able to respond because there crew walked out does it not make sense to have one service that is rescue only which in turn leaves the fire services to do what they do best fight fires.

[6739264]

Ah, but what the fire service does best *includes* rescue

All manner of rescue gear can be used at fires, and at calls that the fire brigade get responded to, whereas very little firefighting equipment can be also used at rescues.

[rescue5271]

Ok,so what about in country towns where there are members in CFA/SES/SAAS,the people at the top need to come out and work with these units/brigade's as they wish to merge as the town can no longer provide new volunteers for all 3 service's.They have been trying to merge and in many cases the SES units want to hand over the RCR to CFS but someone at the top keeps saying NO.....This is not a isolated case...

[bittenyakka]

well people at the top saying no to practical decisions for localities seems to be  a common thing.

[chook]

Ah, but what the fire service does best *includes* rescue

All manner of rescue gear can be used at fires, and at calls that the fire brigade get responded to, whereas very little firefighting equipment can be also used at rescues.

And what we do best as well
The handing over of RCR response in one or two localities is a local thing and would happen if there was a good outcome.
Not sure about this people at the top said No stuff, as it would be up to the RCR committee. If the units can't hand over their RCR responsibilities and members of the CFS are so concerned, Why don't they join the unit?
With so much media exposure around CFS struggling to have enough crews to respond to tasks, Why are they so interested in increasing the work load?
As our friend from Kapunda has said the WA experiment hasn't worked & if it was tried here with the current CFS structure, attitude & systems; I for one wouldn't be transfering & neither would a lot of the people I know.
Nothing personal but I like the way we do things, don't think we need another level of management and having to get permission to get a $50 light fixed for example .
Personally I don't think it will happen, once the people in power (including SAPOL)see what SES achieves, how little it costs & understand the implications of a combined service they won't support it even if CFS management thinks its a great idea (SAMFS don't).
So keep plugging away CFS, one day you may see the light and stop trying to take stuff off us and learn to work with us instead! One can only hope
And I think you are right except it should be two rescue services SAMFS full timers & SES rescue Until it can be proved beyond reasonable doubt that a single service provider can cover the whole state not just Adelaide and that people in rural areas get looked after just as well as our city counterparts (i.e aerial appliances for example).
cheers

[6739264]

Now what if we had only one fire service...

[chook]

Not this Christmas
Maybe one day
cheers

[Zippy]

So keep plugging away CFS, one day you may see the light and stop trying to take stuff off us and learn to work with us instead! One can only hope wink

What if...CFS & SES Joined....and all the SES volly's joined CFS while retaining all the training from SES   see my point....Win win situation...

CFS volunteers can easily bolster SES workforce,  SES volunteers can help the CFS workforce within the single organisation

its not as if..once SES join CFS that the SES vollys are redundant  NOOOO.

South Australia FIRE and RESCUE service

[chook]

Its a common theme which I have said many times works in theory, in practice
WA didn't work, QLD still has separate services & QLD Fire & rescue.
Other states have dismissed the idea as a poor one.
So may be one day.
cheers

[Knackers]

Hello, I am not a member of anyone of these organisations, however I am an ambo/paramedic and I therefore have a different point of view.

I have been at MVA's where MFS, CFS and SES are all there, and SES directed/diverted traffic and MFS assisted CFS with the rescue stuff.

However in the country, some towns don't have a CFS, so SES does the lot.

Personally in my view though, if I require rescue, I ask our comms for fire service and they can organise it by calling fire comms. And if it is an SES rescue unit, so be it, as long as they can get the job done and assist me in getting my patient out safely and in a timely manner.

As for merging, well each community has it's own needs, and at then end of the day, the services have to meet them in the best possible way and if that  means CFS and SES merg or share so be it. You are all there for they same reasons at the end of the day, support each other and help each other, cause you may never know when you require the assistance of the other service, could be for a MVA or if your house is on fire or you kid goes missing or you break a leg in a national park or something. We are all at the end of the day Emergency and Rescue organisations, and are professionals regardless if you get paid or not, and we all have a job to do.

Just my view on the topic of discussion.

[Alan (Big Al)]

Nice one Knackers thanks for your input.

[chook]

yep thanks mate. well said

[Alan J]

What if...CFS & SES Joined....and all the SES volly's joined CFS while retaining all the training from SES   see my point....Win win situation...

CFS volunteers can easily bolster SES workforce,  SES volunteers can help the CFS workforce within the single organisation

its not as if..once SES join CFS that the SES vollys are redundant  NOOOO.

South Australia FIRE and RESCUE service

Disagree Zippy.  I used to be a 'one-service' believer, but a older & wiser now. Only a win/win in a full-time fire-service where they have lots of paid spare time on their hands to maintain proficiency.

In Volunteer Land I believe it's a lose/lose situation.  See the "would you let a stranger on your appliance" thread.  As one person unkindly posted (but probably accurately) - 15000 volunteers, 8000 with half a clue, 1000 actually know what they are doing.  Now double the amount that those 15000 are supposed to know & be proficient in. 

The Big Whinge is that too much time is already demanded for training & etc.  Possibly only drowned by the Big Whinge that the required training isn't available in timely manner...
Double the training demands and watch people resign in their droves. And see even fewer of the remainder actually achieving competency.  My guesstimate is you could revise the above figures to more like 10000, 5000 & 500 respectively.  That's after adding SES numbers to CFS.

Neither Service would be any better off.  Certainly the community would be no better off.  Better to get really decent interworking arrangements going between the services, modify training to suit (eg teach SES RCR how to do -their- job in hazmat suits, teach CFS casualty handling) & encourage people to join the service that suits them.
THAT is a win/win.

my two bob's worth
cheers
AJ

[pumprescue]

I don't think SES needs to shut down altogether. But these small country towns where the only thing SES does is RCR, then why do you need both. Like the  paper says we are struggling, so how can splitting the available people be a good idea, especially in a number of areas where they are mostly dual members. The fire service is always going to go to these jobs, so they may as well do both roles.

Now before you all panic, there is a heap of work SES can do, eg storm damage, search, USAR etc etc. Look at the urban units and how many jobs they do and none of them are RCR units.

I know a lot don't think the single unit will work, but can those people tell me how we are going to keep staffing these seperate services.

I notice chook thinks those of us in the CFS should join SES, umm, isn't that the same as merging, yes, I think it is, whilst they haven't physically merged, they are in fact doing both roles. So whats the point of doing that.

In regards to vehicles, we need to look at what the CFA have, the large stand alone rescues, with all the kit on it, Chook, your just seeing the CFS in your local area, they have some of the most basic trucks CFS has on offer, it can be done.

Just remember, a town is always gonna have a  fire service, no matter what, kind of hard to put a fire out with an SES truck.

[Zippy]

In regards to vehicles, we need to look at what the CFA have, the large stand alone rescues, with all the kit on it, Chook, your just seeing the CFS in your local area, they have some of the most basic trucks CFS has on offer, it can be done.

Just remember, a town is always gonna have a  fire service, no matter what, kind of hard to put a fire out with an SES truck.

Only thing missing from RCR trucks is a 750L water tank, High pressure pump and a Hose Reel lol...im sure it could be tucked in somewhere 

[6739264]

Only thing missing from RCR trucks is a 750L water tank, High pressure pump and a Hose Reel lol...im sure it could be tucked in somewhere 

The fact that it has no tank/pump is a *GOOD* thing Zippy

Keep that scheiße off my Rescue truck thank you!

[Zippy]

but think about the amount of times a Rescue truck arrives in the middle of nowhere to a RCR...where it could be a Vehicle Fire job as well (unfortunately)...and ya sitting there "where the filtered is the fire truck"...

[6739264]

Thats why both fire cover AND Rescue should be turned out. A rescue truck can roll with 2 crew, the rest jump on the pump?