SAAS Comms and paging delays

[chook]

1928012 16:05:24 22-11-07 PRIORITY 1 FOR VEHICLE ACCIDENT TRAFFIC CONTROL BENOLA AND KALANGADOO RD PRIORITY 1 FROM POLICE SES East Region
1906674 16:05:22 22-11-07 PRIORITY 1 FOR VEHICLE ACCIDENT TRAFFIC CONTROL BENOLA AND KALANGADOO RD PRIORITY 1 FROM POLICE SES Wattle Range Response
1909260 15:42:11 22-11-07 MFS: INC # 39 - 22/11/07 15:41,RESPOND Vehicle Accident,BENARA RD,MT GAMBIER, MAP 0 0 0 ,,ADVISED BY SAPOL OF ACCIDENT. NO ENTRAPMENT, NO SPILLAGE. NOTIFIED ONLY AS A COURTESY. YOUR ATTENDANCE AT OWN DISCRETION,MTG029 MRAK00 CFS Gambier Group Officers Response
1909265 15:42:09 22-11-07 MFS: INC # 39 - 22/11/07 15:41,RESPOND Vehicle Accident,BENARA RD,MT GAMBIER, MAP 0 0 0 ,,ADVISED BY SAPOL OF ACCIDENT. NO ENTRAPMENT, NO SPILLAGE. NOTIFIED ONLY AS A COURTESY. YOUR ATTENDANCE AT OWN DISCRETION,MTG029 MRAK00 CFS Moorak Response
1928012 15:42:01 22-11-07 2/11/07 15:41,RESPOND Vehicle Accident,BENARA RD,MT GAMBIER, MAP 0 0 0 ,,ADVISED BY SAPOL OF ACCIDENT. NO ENTRAPMENT, NO SPILLAGE. NOTIFIED ONLY AS A COURTESY. YOUR ATTENDANCE AT OWN DISCRETION,MTG029 MRAK00 SES East Region
1906658 15:42:00 22-11-07 MFS: INC # 39 - 22/11/07 15:41,RESPOND Vehicle Accident,BENARA RD,MT GAMBIER, MAP 0 0 0 ,,ADVISED BY SAPOL OF ACCIDENT. NO ENTRAPMENT, NO SPILLAGE. NOTIFIED 
1924962 15:39:52 22-11-07 MG84 Cat2 Benara Rd, Mount Gambier C182 A5 POLICE REQUIRED SAAS Road Crash Research
1924962 15:39:28 22-11-07 MG84 Cat2 Benara Rd, Mount Gambier C182 A5 POLICE REQUIRED SAAS Road Crash Research
1908548 15:39:24 22-11-07 MG84 Cat2 Benara Rd, Mount Gambier C182 A5 POLICE REQUIRED SAAS Mt Gambier
Wonder what this is all about?

[SA Firey]

Car vs Tree 1 Person Incinerated

[chook]

Suspected that - so paramedics required fire/ rescue not?

[mack]

actually a differant job.


the kalangadoo incineration occured at 1416

[chook]

ok thanks - still SAAS comcen still playing by a different set of rules?

[mack]

i wouldnt say so, F&R were still notified. Besides looks like call came from SAPOL.

[chook]

Yep @ least SAPOL gave the services the choice. It appears SAAS didn't bother, my understanding is they are supposed to pass on the information regardless & the fire & rescue services then base their response on the information supplied. I think a well done to SAPOL this was a good page.
cheers

[mack]

depends who took the initial call chook... but agreed, well done SAPOL for the advice to other agencies even when they didnt feel they were required.

[Robert-Robert34]

1928012 16:05:24 22-11-07 PRIORITY 1 FOR VEHICLE ACCIDENT TRAFFIC CONTROL BENOLA AND KALANGADOO RD PRIORITY 1 FROM POLICE SES East Region
1906674 16:05:22 22-11-07 PRIORITY 1 FOR VEHICLE ACCIDENT TRAFFIC CONTROL BENOLA AND KALANGADOO RD PRIORITY 1 FROM POLICE SES Wattle Range Response
1909260 15:42:11 22-11-07 MFS: INC # 39 - 22/11/07 15:41,RESPOND Vehicle Accident,BENARA RD,MT GAMBIER, MAP 0 0 0 ,,ADVISED BY SAPOL OF ACCIDENT. NO ENTRAPMENT, NO SPILLAGE. NOTIFIED ONLY AS A COURTESY. YOUR ATTENDANCE AT OWN DISCRETION,MTG029 MRAK00 CFS Gambier Group Officers Response
1909265 15:42:09 22-11-07 MFS: INC # 39 - 22/11/07 15:41,RESPOND Vehicle Accident,BENARA RD,MT GAMBIER, MAP 0 0 0 ,,ADVISED BY SAPOL OF ACCIDENT. NO ENTRAPMENT, NO SPILLAGE. NOTIFIED ONLY AS A COURTESY. YOUR ATTENDANCE AT OWN DISCRETION,MTG029 MRAK00 CFS Moorak Response
1928012 15:42:01 22-11-07 2/11/07 15:41,RESPOND Vehicle Accident,BENARA RD,MT GAMBIER, MAP 0 0 0 ,,ADVISED BY SAPOL OF ACCIDENT. NO ENTRAPMENT, NO SPILLAGE. NOTIFIED ONLY AS A COURTESY. YOUR ATTENDANCE AT OWN DISCRETION,MTG029 MRAK00 SES East Region
1906658 15:42:00 22-11-07 MFS: INC # 39 - 22/11/07 15:41,RESPOND Vehicle Accident,BENARA RD,MT GAMBIER, MAP 0 0 0 ,,ADVISED BY SAPOL OF ACCIDENT. NO ENTRAPMENT, NO SPILLAGE. NOTIFIED 
1924962 15:39:52 22-11-07 MG84 Cat2 Benara Rd, Mount Gambier C182 A5 POLICE REQUIRED SAAS Road Crash Research
1924962 15:39:28 22-11-07 MG84 Cat2 Benara Rd, Mount Gambier C182 A5 POLICE REQUIRED SAAS Road Crash Research
1908548 15:39:24 22-11-07 MG84 Cat2 Benara Rd, Mount Gambier C182 A5 POLICE REQUIRED SAAS Mt Gambier
Wonder what this is all about?

It was actually a ute rollover/fire cause a grass fire was started as result of the ute rolling over

[boredmatrix]

ok thanks - still SAAS comcen still playing by a different set of rules?

given the relative anonymity this forum provides (for me and you lot anyway - I'm just a lowly paramedic working in the city) - I'm thinking that it could be a fair assumption on my part to think that the average firey considers SAAS comms a bit of a joke?

please be honest - it's always interesting to know what other services think!

[littlejohn]

I'm thinking that it could be a fair assumption on my part to think that the average firey considers SAAS comms a bit of a joke?

please be honest - it's always interesting to know what other services think!

I consider myself pretty average (!!), and I wouldn't call the SAAS comms a joke - they no doubt have specific info to get, but christ it can sometimes take a long time from a call coming in to other agencies being paged.

For instance, with yesterday's job at the 'doo, it is my understanding (all second hand from SAPOL) is that it took 6 mins from receipt of a call saying a car was on fire to respond anything. Interestingly CFS was paged before SAAS, but 6 mins is a hell of a long time when a vehicle's on fire.

It's not fair to have a go at SAAS comms as I don't know what goes on there, but it's pretty evident that communications with other agencies often leaves something to be desired.

[chook]

Have to agree with Littlejohn - not a joke, but sometimes it takes a long time to get the other services moving if at all.
This as not a problem until it all goes pear shaped! You have to ask why we are responded to a task P1, then while travelling to the scene you pass the ambulance going the home This happens on more often than it should, one day it will come back and bite someone (remember the golden hour?). Also ask yourself this why do SAAS pages have a grid reference when in rural areas ours don't.
In all honesty SAAS were put into the wrong department (health) & should have been classified an emergency service, just like we are.
Anyway I think I've said enough, it appears that problems like this will continue to occur as there is no real pressure to fix it! But no I don't think anyone associated with the emergency care of the public are a joke -cheers

[Robert-Robert34]

My pager went off at 14:17pm when Kalangadoo & Penola were responded by Adelaide Fire 

[bajdas]

.....Also ask yourself this why do SAAS pages have a grid reference when in rural areas ours don't......it appears that problems like this will continue to occur as there is no real pressure to fix it!....

Because each emergency service created their own database and systems for call receipt & dispatch, then some agencies provide more information than others. For example, when MFS dispatch SES you will have map references. When SES SCC dispatch, you will not. Different databases being used.

This will be fixed when SACAD is implemented (last estimate I heard was during 2009). All four services will be using the same database then.

I also understand (I could be wrong with this) that if any of the four agencies receives a emergency call, it will show on the mapping screen on consoles connected to SACAD. Hopefully this means everyone will dispatch at the same time.

Unfortunately for front line crew 6 minutes seems a long time. But you time yourself picking up a telephone, dialing the number, telephone rings twice, answered, read the message, verify correct information, type in some information to a dispatch database, quick verification that resultant paging data is correct, press the send button, computer transmits to GRN tower, paging sent.....a lot happens in the current system & if one step has incorrect information (old chinese whispers game) it can mean wrong resource to wrong location.

In addition to the 6 minutes delay was the time for the original call-taker to answer the telephone call, calm the caller, verify the location, provide emergency advice to the caller, etc, etc.

An extra minute in a Comcen can mean saving driving time for you by providing correct & accurate information.

*** sorry for long rant, but yes mistakes happen & delays happen. But the Comcens do the best they can with the current system. I believe SACAD will PARTIALLY fix the delays if we all embrace the CHANGES has an opportunity rather than stop the changes ***

[Robert-Robert34]

For the accident out of Kalangadoo yesterday SAAS were paged a couple minutes after Kalangadoo 34 & Penola 24P were dispatched cause SAAS had a hard time raising a crew from Nangwarry so they had to dispatch Millicent and Mount Gambier paramedic crews   

[mack]

Also ask yourself this why do SAAS pages have a grid reference when in rural areas ours don't.

its called a rapid number, and you'll onyl ever see them on a page if one is provided to the commcen for that location, it is not something special that the commcen go and lookup for every so called 'rural' call... youll also see it on pages for F&R if its provided to there commcen. so dont get carried away...

given the relative anonymity this forum provides (for me and you lot anyway - I'm just a lowly paramedic working in the city) - I'm thinking that it could be a fair assumption on my part to think that the average firey considers SAAS comms a bit of a joke?

please be honest - it's always interesting to know what other services think!

there no worse than any other services commcen, everyone of them has there problems. out of all three infact i would say that SAAS are the better, having people with reasonably broad knowledge of the entire state. Sure sometimes they drop the ball and fail to notify F&R of MVAs in areas... but there has been more than one occasion when other agencies have failed to notify them of jobs...

besides, someones brigade doesnt get responded to a job and its automatically SAAS's fault.... what a joke.

[Alan J]

given the relative anonymity this forum provides (for me and you lot anyway - I'm just a lowly paramedic working in the city) - I'm thinking that it could be a fair assumption on my part to think that the average firey considers SAAS comms a bit of a joke?

please be honest - it's always interesting to know what other services think!

No, it would not be a fair assumption to think that we think SAAS comms is a joke.
We just wish SAAS -management- would play by the agreed rule-book.
As you'd appreciate, it takes most of us rather longer to get mobile than SAMFS, & we often have much further to travel. We also have some concern for safety of Ambo's in the Hills - blind bends on "racetracks" & etc. A lot harder for you folks to become secondary casualties if there's 13T of truck between you & the idiots...
cheers

[RescueHazmat]

ok thanks - still SAAS comcen still playing by a different set of rules?

given the relative anonymity this forum provides (for me and you lot anyway - I'm just a lowly paramedic working in the city) - I'm thinking that it could be a fair assumption on my part to think that the average firey considers SAAS comms a bit of a joke?

please be honest - it's always interesting to know what other services think!

I think the people on here who keep bashing the comcens are the joke.. -  Let them do the job for a day and see if they still open their big mouths!

[chook]

No Mack they are a Map reference - MAP 198 L 13 I know what a Rapid number is as we have them for some of the towns here ( a project that has since fallen over)this is a Rapid number 839055.
For example SAAS - C182 A5, Fire /Rescue - MAP 0 0 0, same location same job different commcens.
My point is why bother to have MOU's, Agreements, Road Crash Rescue directories etc. Why bother to train, provide very expensive equipment & facilities etc if the process is not followed.
And personally I don't care if we don't get responded to a job - ever(means I can relax & get on the beers ), as long as someone does!
All I'm after is consistency, not too much to ask is it?
I totally support StopCallkings comments.
cheers

[mack]

No Mack they are a Map reference - MAP 198 L 13 I know what a Rapid number is as we have them for some of the towns here ( a project that has since fallen over)this is a Rapid number 839055.

thats actually a UBD map referance... what you initially called it though was a 'grid referance' which would imply a 6-digit referance to me... i see where the confusion is then

answer is simply that Adelaide Fire probly dont have the country UBDs loaded into there system, perhaps another problem with the "ageing BOMS"...

[Robert-Robert34]

I know the whole Kalangadoo area off the back of my hand thats why our brigade got to that accident so quickly cause theres only one main drain on the Kalangadoo-Mount Burr

[chook]

Thats ok, partially my fault (comes from being a Nav instructor )
And you are more than likely right, old system.
No ones bashing the operators Rescue - just the system. Wait until it all goes wrong one day & ends up in the Coroners court or worse the family sues.
Refer to previous comments - cheers

[sesroadcrashrescue]

ok i stand in two camps im an ambo and im a ses member. i have been on call with saas and had fire and rescue go flying out of town for an rcr and no saas till well after fire and rescue get there and call adelaide fire to request saas. i have also been on saas call and had to remind comms to call fire and rescue.

it is frustrating no matter what service your with i dont know how many times i have been on call with saas and gone to a rcr that as been near my town and had the wrong rescue service turn up no fire cover, only the one truck to do both fire and rescue and not had the locals paged once there is 2 fire services and 1 rescue service here you would think they would page somebody.

both Adelaide fire and saas comms get it wrong at times and make mistakes however those men and women are under alot of presure, and we make mistakes in the field. dont get stuck in to the operators they do the best they can at that moment   

[Pipster]

I can't speak about ambo comms, but certainly with Adelaide Fire, it generally isn't the men & women working there that make the mistakes - rather the problem is a dispatch system based on a very old computer system, which doesn't have the ability to take many more updates / changes.   Add to that, the system not having much of the CFS data in it (or at least not accessible).  (Unless it changed recently.... correct me if I'm wrong on the CFS data).

It may well be that those working in Comms are following the procedures they have, but the system & the data they have is not up to the job....

Throw into that the mobile phone factor - people calling in an emergency, -usually not locals, - who don't know where they are...and come up with some very interesting locations....which may not even be close to where they actually are....and many of the wrong resources are dispatched.

At least for Adelaide Fire, I suspect if their BOMS system was capable of doing what the services are wanting it to do, and there was a better way of identifying localities / properties in rural areas, some of the issues discussed in this thread would cease to be a problem!

But, SACAD is coming...it is promising to do to many things.....whether it lives up to that promise, remains to be seen.....

Pip

[Robert-Robert34]

Did anyone read that article in today's Border Watch about the delay in paging to that accident last week involving those 2 cars