Author Topic: Project FUSE (Read 7329 times)

Katrina · « **on:** February 27, 2008, 01:38:30 PM »

(1of2) SOUTHERN LOFTY CREWS ONLY Expressions of interest are sought for 4 crew & 2 IMT support staff for a 6 day shift control burn at Ngarkat. Project FuSE. Co DEH Southern Lofty Group

Not sure I like to see they are doing a controlled burn in Ngarkat - here we go again?

Or is it just because nothing has happenned there for the summer yet?

Zippy · « **Reply #1 on:** February 27, 2008, 01:54:49 PM »

Morialta now Ngarkat...*Rolls Eyes*

IMT support staff required ey...so its deemed a INCIDENT before it has been started. *meant in good humour*

Pipster · « **Reply #2 on:** February 27, 2008, 02:26:58 PM »

I would have thought having a burn planned for 6 days, you would need some IMT in place to manage it....good to see some pre planning...

Pip

Darius · « **Reply #3 on:** February 28, 2008, 07:17:44 AM »

it's project FUSE, more than just a burn, it's been planned for months and involves CFS (locals and the aircraft) and CSIRO as well as DEH.

Footy · « **Reply #4 on:** February 28, 2008, 04:08:38 PM »

So with CSIRO involved does this mean there will be some sort of fire behaviour research done in a controlled (obviously not controlled like in a lab) location?

I can see the benefits of burning parts of Ngarkat, but how good would it be from a research point of view to gain data from this opportunity when it is not an emergency situation...

littlejohn · « **Reply #5 on:** February 28, 2008, 04:48:05 PM »

My knowledge of the research is pretty limited - there was an article in the latest Volunteer though, so have a squiz at that if you've still got it floating about.

I beleive they've already done a number of burns in Ngarkat, assessing fire behaviour & heat in that environment. Aus & Kiwi reasearchers. Essentially endeavouring to better understand fire behaviour.

A fire is a fire, after all. Regardless of whether it's intended or an emergency!
I heard (though can't vouch for accuracy) that temperatures recorded during the 'cold burns' were higher than they were expecting to encounter during this summer burn.

JC · « **Reply #6 on:** February 29, 2008, 11:21:10 AM »

Quote from: littlejohn on February 28, 2008, 04:48:05 PM

My knowledge of the research is pretty limited - there was an article in the latest Volunteer though, so have a squiz at that if you've still got it floating about.

I beleive they've already done a number of burns in Ngarkat, assessing fire behaviour & heat in that environment. Aus & Kiwi reasearchers. Essentially endeavouring to better understand fire behaviour.

A fire is a fire, after all. Regardless of whether it's intended or an emergency!
I heard (though can't vouch for accuracy) that temperatures recorded during the 'cold burns' were higher than they were expecting to encounter during this summer burn.

Your pretty much on the money, they do grid burns (i think 500mtr x 500mtr grids) in differing vegetation and fuel loads checking and testing for everything, rate of spread in certain time frames, temps, flame heights / widths and they have smoke monitoring equipment to see whats substances are in the smoke.

backburn · « **Reply #7 on:** February 29, 2008, 12:07:47 PM »

I heard it i going to go for a few weeks? Is it right that it starts this Sunday?

Shiner · « **Reply #8 on:** February 29, 2008, 12:48:41 PM »

Jervois BW17 has been requested and is due to be delivered on Sunday to the area, believe a new airstrip has been created for the bombers??.....

Darius · « **Reply #9 on:** February 29, 2008, 06:38:34 PM »

bomber 582 and 583 (airtractor 802's) will be based at Tintinara from monday.

PS. it's been going a couple of years (project fuse that is): http://www.bushfirecrc.com/news/ngarkat.html

rescue5271 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 29, 2008, 09:17:51 PM »

Local CFS/DEH/ and SES are all involved in this project along with CSIRO,they area has been made safe(so they say) but its all about testing mother nature and with the forcast next week of temps in the mid 30's may be fun...A new airstrip has been made so as to make life alot easy for firefighting but it is also to test a new firefighting gel called THERMO GEL...So if anyone is up that way there will be good phot's to be taken....The project people have taken over the Pendelton farmstay just east of Keith and that is there base camp......

Zippy · « **Reply #11 on:** February 29, 2008, 10:33:30 PM »

Quote

Local CFS/DEH/ and SES are all involved in this project along with CSIRO,they area has been made safe(so they say) but its all about testing mother nature and with the forcast next week of temps in the mid 30's may be fun...A new airstrip has been made so as to make life alot easy for firefighting but it is also to test a new firefighting gel called THERMO GEL...So if anyone is up that way there will be good phot's to be taken....The project people have taken over the Pendelton farmstay just east of Keith and that is there base camp......

Will be interesting to hear about the results of this new thermo gel....could be used by ground crews someday as something better than AFFF foam. but ey AFFF is good fun to play with

even more since new trucks have the right plumbing to stop me from fillin the tank with it...

ah the joy

rescue5271 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 01, 2008, 10:02:50 AM »

Park's informed our group at the last group meeting about the burn and for some reason those that where at the meeting said there appliances would all have flat tyres that week and would be unable to respond if needed.....

From what I have read about the GEL it sounds like the way to go but CFS are doing testing with it,If anyone is going to the lucindale field day make sure you look at the Mercury fire stand as they will have information on this gel.....

6739264 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 01, 2008, 12:34:55 PM »

Ah nice, we are finally looking into what the Yanks have been using for years! Its about time!

Zippy, you'll notice better results with BFFF foam fun

Footy · « **Reply #14 on:** March 02, 2008, 04:09:39 PM »

I was watching a show on foxtel a few weeks ago, and discovery channel had something on fire fighting. This guy sprayed a window with this gel stuff and had his hand on the back of a pane of steel or something while the guy was putting blow torch on it, and cos it had the gel it was cool to touch (sort of how the story went) but the gist was it could be used to coat houses in the event of bush fire

is this the same stuff as they are trialling??

rescue5271 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 02, 2008, 05:24:39 PM »

Not too sure,Mercury fire are the one's selling it so pop into their office in lonsdale and see the guys sure they will be able to give you the information down here in the southeast i have some information if people would like a copy of what i have just drop me a line.....

6739264 · « **Reply #16 on:** March 03, 2008, 06:18:32 AM »

Quote from: Footy on March 02, 2008, 04:09:39 PM

I was watching a show on foxtel a few weeks ago, and discovery channel had something on fire fighting. This guy sprayed a window with this gel stuff and had his hand on the back of a pane of steel or something while the guy was putting blow torch on it, and cos it had the gel it was cool to touch (sort of how the story went) but the gist was it could be used to coat houses in the event of bush fire

is this the same stuff as they are trialling??

I'd imagine it would be the same thing or a similar product. That show is years old, so who knows what improvements have been made. But it looks really good.

Alan J · « **Reply #17 on:** March 04, 2008, 10:27:29 PM »

Quote from: Footy on March 02, 2008, 04:09:39 PM

I was watching a show on foxtel a few weeks ago, and discovery channel had something on fire fighting. This guy sprayed a window with this gel stuff and had his hand on the back of a pane of steel or something while the guy was putting blow torch on it, and cos it had the gel it was cool to touch (sort of how the story went) but the gist was it could be used to coat houses in the event of bush fire

is this the same stuff as they are trialling??

that was probably "Barricade" - a polymer water suspender - 'bubbles' of water instead of air.

Katrina · « **Reply #18 on:** March 06, 2008, 08:14:45 PM »

rescue5271 Thanks for the information on the thermo gel, I will be interested to see what independant testing shows. It is always interesting when a company is promoting a product and they have done their own tests on it but you don't really know much about the tests or whether they did them more that once. In the examples they talked about 3 bales of hay, one sprayed with water, one sprayed with foam and one sprayed with gel and when lit the gel on was fine. The only problem with this as you don't know what circumstances this was in (for all we know the one sprayed with gel could have also been sitting in a pond of water for a week and was never going to burn) It's a bit like relying on a fertilizer company to do your soil tests they want to sell you fertiliser so of course your tests will show that you need some put on there. When I worked in statistics I learnt that I could take the same set of results and figures and get them to support three totally different ideas/sides. Will be waiting to see what results they get out of their trials but thanks once again for providing that information

Footy · « **Reply #19 on:** March 07, 2008, 08:49:26 AM »

But Davi, your not allowed to think critically about things people are trying to sell you, that would just be cheating...

How would our lovely sales reps ever sell anything?

rescue5271 · « **Reply #20 on:** March 07, 2008, 06:23:34 PM »

I spoke to one of the high ranking CFS staff on Thursday while in Bordertown as it was a day off for all on the project,he said that all was going well and that they where very impressed with the GEL and that the results speak for themselves...They only had two more burns today Friday or Saturday and that will be the end of the project,in time we will all know how the test and the csiro project has gone...