Author Topic: Bunker Boots  (Read 23388 times)

Offline jaff

  • Forum Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 848
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Bunker Boots
« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2008, 08:42:33 AM »
I wore a pair last night at the Wingfield dump fire, and im glad i did. Saved my socks and feet being soaked in garbage run-off. The taipan style isn't the best sealed boot.



Gilly did you wear these style boots with the blessing of your group, or is this a decision that your brigade has arrived at, or an independent action by youself.
As has been posted by others, if the unforunate happened and you hadn't been approved to wear these style of boots , it would then possibly be a protracted discussion with  the insurance guru's, not a pleasant prospect.
If your either your brigade or group approved their use ,without regions approval ,then the liabilitiy lies with them ,not a good situation.
The discussion as to the fit for use of this style of boot for CFS duty,probably needs to happen ,granted, but to assume that because they meet xyz standards ,CFS will automatically sign off on their approval for use is foolish, because once they approve their use ,they have opened up the purse strings,something they are loathe to do!!!!!!
Just Another Filtered Fireman

Offline CFS_Firey

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,250
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Bunker Boots
« Reply #26 on: April 22, 2008, 11:02:56 AM »
The CFS would not get away with refusing to compensate someone who was injured wearing boots that exceed the standards of the officially supplied boots.  Legally they may be well within their rights to do so, but it would raise a massive internal, and potentially public outcry.  The CFS is already in enough trouble for allegedly not appreciating the volunteers as it is...

Offline bajdas

  • Forum Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,745
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Bunker Boots
« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2008, 01:12:02 PM »
But if everyone starts to wear their own gear (that is better than standard), then what happens to standard PPE ??

I believe you also get back to the "bad old days" where the richer areas got more/better equipment compared to the struggling area.

If someone does have an accident & is wearing their own gear, then how much extra paperwork/enquiries/reports/etc/etc will need to be done by volunteers & paid staff because the person was wearing something different.

Yes the person injured might be paid, but it will hurt/cost the organisation in time lost from doing other more useful things.

Let alone the volunteer having to maintain their own gear.

Yes it is only a boot....but what happens when the same idea is applied to other equipment. This has occurred with Vertical Rescue equipment (eg sit harness, etc, etc).

Yes I carry some of my own gear (eg headlamp torch, pocket knife, etc), but nothing to do with safety.

** my personal opinion only **
Andrew Macmichael
lives at Pt Noarlunga South.

My personal opinion only.

Offline Gilly

  • Forum Senior Firefighter
  • ***
  • Posts: 66
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Bunker Boots
« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2008, 02:53:26 PM »
I made the call. Standing around in ankle deep rubbish run-off was not the most preferred option, and posed a far greater risk to my health and safety than wearing standard compliant boots.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2008, 03:01:47 PM by Gilly »

Offline 6739264

  • Forum Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,806
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • RETARD RETARD RETARD Need I say more?
    • View Profile
Re: Bunker Boots
« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2008, 04:45:39 PM »
I love 'em for structural work. I have a pair of the SAMFS spec. Haix boots. I still enjoy the comforts of the Taipans for rural work.

As far as the standards are concerned, I'm happy to use it as it exceeds the required standard. If I happen to go arse over tit, and my boots are responsible, then I will happily cop whatever the CFS and the insurance company is going to dish out.
To think they employed me as a drooling retard...

Offline RescueHazmat

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,174
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Bunker Boots
« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2008, 05:51:39 PM »
They are used by the SAMFS, but definately not SAMFS spec.. - They are not designed to a 'SAMFS' specification..

I will wear them at work, because we do.. - I won't wear them at CFS, because I have been told by a DGO not to.. - If i'm ever injured, and it is discovered the Haix boot could have prevented it, it will be duely(sp) noted on the injury report..

Offline jaff

  • Forum Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 848
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Bunker Boots
« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2008, 12:07:28 AM »
As a few people have said that they would and do wear non standard PPE that hasnt been approved by CFS . Their call or is it ? Does the officer in charge of the appliance, bare some responsibility for ensuring that "correct" PPE is worn by the crew under his direction ? Yes, it may meet or exceed CFS standards, but is it fair to put the officer in charge of the appliance / incident controller in a position ,where they could be compromised by your actions if things go tits up and its found that the non CFS approved PPE is a contributing factor !
As a Captain or Group Officer would you knowingly let your brigade/s use non standard, unapproved equipment, PBI gold it can be argued is the best possible protection against radiant heat in a bushfire ,it certainly exceeds the standard of level 1 clothing, but to use it for extended periods, could be putting yourself at risk.
The point I am trying badly to make is that, assuming that because non approved PPE/EQUIPMENT exceed a given standard, they are automatically suitable for any incident that you perceive to be, below the risk factors associated with that incident. God forbid it ever ends up in a court with some limp dic k lawyer questioning you about your qualifications in dynamic PPE risk assesment for non approved items, is it worth the heart ache?.
If its needed , go through the right channels, seek its approval, argue the case , seek clarification , dont put other people in compromising situations.


Cheers Jaff
Just Another Filtered Fireman

Offline 6739264

  • Forum Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,806
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • RETARD RETARD RETARD Need I say more?
    • View Profile
Re: Bunker Boots
« Reply #32 on: April 26, 2008, 08:02:26 PM »
They are used by the SAMFS, but definately not SAMFS spec.. - They are not designed to a 'SAMFS' specification..

Yes I understand that. I was merely pointing out that I use the same Haix boots as are used by SAMFS, but for the moment I had forgotten the trade name.

If its needed , go through the right channels, seek its approval, argue the case , seek clarification , dont put other people in compromising situations.

It's a valid point. It seems odd that we sit here and happily wear no standard footwear, when I don't think any of us would even begin to think about buying our own Turnout gear or helmet...
To think they employed me as a drooling retard...

Offline RescueHazmat

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,174
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Bunker Boots
« Reply #33 on: April 26, 2008, 08:35:46 PM »
NP.

Offline Jacob W

  • Forum Firefighter
  • **
  • Posts: 25
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Bunker Boots
« Reply #34 on: April 27, 2008, 04:04:42 PM »
Something that would slip on easily like the haix would be nice for rural jobs had they been supportive and enduring enough, nothing annoys me more than time wasted messing around trying to do up the zip on the taipans and the resulting effects on your fingers once you successfully pull up the zip. Im lucky enough to have a foot halfway between an 8 and a 9 so I wear two pairs of woolen socks to keep my feet snug in the boots. On KI I made the mistake of wearing just 1 pair and I've never had sorer feet before in my life. In addition the taipans weigh a ton. How much do the Haix ones weigh?
« Last Edit: April 27, 2008, 04:08:42 PM by Jacob W »

Offline RescueHazmat

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,174
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Bunker Boots
« Reply #35 on: April 27, 2008, 05:07:40 PM »
Haix are twice the weight of a Taipan. - I would NEVER wear my Haix for a rural job! (Just to make that point clear).. Its hard enough if for some reason you have to drive the truck in them!

uniden

  • Guest
Re: Bunker Boots
« Reply #36 on: April 27, 2008, 07:07:32 PM »
Haix are no harder to drive in than steel cap work boots, I find.

Offline safireservice

  • Forum Lieutenant
  • ****
  • Posts: 450
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Bunker Boots
« Reply #37 on: April 27, 2008, 07:59:32 PM »
You might like to consider these?
http://www.oliver.com.au/asp/show_products.asp?safety=S
scroll down till you find STYLE 25-356 firemans waterproof top boot 10
Treat everyone as if they are an idiot, until they prove you otherwise.

Offline Jacob W

  • Forum Firefighter
  • **
  • Posts: 25
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Bunker Boots
« Reply #38 on: April 27, 2008, 08:58:21 PM »
For the above boots:

Meets AS/NZS4821 Firefighting Footwear Standard

Surely thats the cfs standard.......

Offline Red Message

  • Forum Senior Firefighter
  • ***
  • Posts: 76
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Facebook
Re: Bunker Boots
« Reply #39 on: April 28, 2008, 11:12:47 AM »
Regarding the Oliver boots, I use the zipper style ones for work and find them to be very good boots. Good support and no issues with the zipper. Dare I say a little more comfy than the Taipans.

Jacob, sizing can be a pain especially if you do fall into the gap between sizes like I used to. As far as having issues with the zip goes, have you got the boot laced correctly? I've never had issues with boots since we moved on from the Redback, which had a shitty zipper but that was kept in check with a bit of chain lube.

There is a difference between the National standard and what is actually approved for use, and supplied by different agencies. I would also imagine that you could get away with using the same style boot from a different manufacturer, but not a different style completely. Its much like elastic sided boots are a no-no these days due to the ankle support and flammability issues, but both Redback and Taipan style boots are still in use...
Stirling CFS
NSWFB 001 Stn.
Firefighter

Offline RescueHazmat

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,174
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Bunker Boots
« Reply #40 on: April 28, 2008, 12:10:23 PM »
Haix are no harder to drive in than steel cap work boots, I find.

I find the work boots have alot more flexibility in the ankle and just allow general pivotting of the foot alot easier..

-You can still drive just as safely, but personally I find it slightly easier in the work boots compared to my Haix (bunker) boots.

Offline Stefan KIRKMOE

  • Forum Senior Firefighter
  • ***
  • Posts: 78
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Bunker Boots
« Reply #41 on: April 28, 2008, 08:02:20 PM »
Normal zip up boots for L1 gear and bunker boots for PBI (at own expense).... At the end of the day if people want to spend their own money of getting their own gear (that doesn't compromise safety) then go for it.... It's what people have been doing with flash hoods and helmet torches for years....

Offline 6739264

  • Forum Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,806
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • RETARD RETARD RETARD Need I say more?
    • View Profile
Re: Bunker Boots
« Reply #42 on: April 29, 2008, 01:38:51 PM »
Lets not start the helmet torch safety issue...
To think they employed me as a drooling retard...

 

anything