CFS responding with MFS in MFS area

[Master of Disaster]

What is the minimum skill level CFS Fire Fighters need to respond with the MFS?
e.g. We at ...... need to have BA, and or RCR, HAZMAT

Cheers Chris




PS, I don't want to post the name of the station just incase I upset someone.

[uniden]

Depends on the brigade and the incident. When I was in an urban interface brigade and we reponded with MFS we made sure we had at least 2 BA operators if not 4. If it was an MVA we tried to have a minimum of 2 rcr operators.
But we werent a Hazmat brigade so that wasn`t important. But like I said if you are not a hazmat/rcr brigade you need a minimum crew of 4 including 2xBA operators. For a start, even if you are going to a grass fire you may get diverted.

[car31]

4 BA all in PBI gold, for everything other than RCR, this is a new thing for us and has come in over the last month

[6739264]

We try for at least 2 in each discipline.  BA/RCR/Hazmat

The absolute minimum should be 2xBA I would imagine.

[pumprescue]

Yeah we were told from the powers to be that its 2 BA minimum.

[Cameron Yelland]

well thats just common sense isnt it?  If you are responding to a structure fire with the mfs or anywhere you are going to want to respond with a minimum of 2 BA ops.

[6739264]

well thats just common sense isnt it?  If you are responding to a structure fire with the mfs or anywhere you are going to want to respond with a minimum of 2 BA ops.

Don't tell me that you're still naive enough to think that majority of people in the SACFS actually use common sense?

[uniden]

Not to mention everyone has a different definition of common sense...

[OMGWTF]

how about we just respond with the appropriate rescue or BA crew dependant on the incident type..... surely we all know the CFS SOPs for minimum crewing, doesnt matter whos area it is

[Pixie]

how about we just respond with the appropriate rescue or BA crew dependant on the incident type..... surely we all know the CFS SOPs for minimum crewing, doesnt matter whos area it is

Sorry, but actually it does matter whos area it is. If the brigade is responding  into an MFS area, the minimum is 2 BA operators. no question about it, if you cant get 2 ba operators the EMA agreement says DEFAULT! Same goes for road crash i believe (but not 100% sure).

Also put it this way, how would you feel in this FICTIONAL scenario:

You are OIC on first arriving CFS truck at a house fire confined to 1 bedroom.
You have 1 BA team on your truck, and you know that the next CFS appliance is 2 minutes down the road with 2 BA operators on board. And an mfs appliance is on its way to your station for COQ

Whilst your first BA crew is making entry, the job begins to escalate, you call for a second alarm.

The second CFS appliance shows up and their BA team also begins an aggressive interior attack.

2 minutes later the COQ MFS truck(which you assume have a minimum of 2 ba operators, as thats what your EMA agreement says) rock up. <the issue is between them they have exactly ZERO Ba operators.>

2 Minutes after that, another MFS appliance shows up, same situation, zero BA operators.

Now what do you do? you have 2 BA teams attempting an aggressive interior attack, with no rescue personnel in case the poop hits the fan inside.

HOW WOULD YOU LIKE IT IF THIS HAPPENED TO YOU!?!

THIS IS THE POTENTIAL SITUATION THAT YOU ARE SETTING UP YOUR NEIGHBORING MFS CREWS UP FOR BY NOT FOLLOWING EMA RESPONSE PLANS!

The MFS would not do this to us, so why would we do it to them?

[jaff]

Pixie, some blokes might not like SHOUTING LETTERS , but I'm not one...YA HEAR ME! 

[24pumper]

I always thought in the past it was a minimum crew of 4 with Level 3 and BA (as level 3 is no longer relevent, ide presume that isnt applicable) so making it 4 BA operators, the same as an MFS crew. Although if you are responding on an appliance with 2 BA sets waiting for 4BA may be wasting time. As for RCR ide say it would be the same if it was MFS or CFS area, as per the RCR directory, minimum 3 RCR operators (but crew of 4).

24p

[Zippy]

Any Requirement to do CFB as well?  a good 95%+ of MFS firefighters now have CFB training.. and ya might get a few angry faces if ya start ventilating (cracking windows/opening doors/etc) the building while they are offensively fighting a involved fire.

my opinion > only having BA...is "half way there" to fulfilling EMA.

[6739264]

...the same as an MFS crew.

If we do that, then do you want all 4 on the pump trained in BA, RCR and Hazmat?

Any Requirement to do CFB as well?  a good 95%+ of MFS firefighters now have CFB training.. and ya might get a few angry faces if ya start ventilating (cracking windows/opening doors/etc) the building while they are offensively fighting a involved fire.

my opinion > only having BA...is "half way there" to fulfilling EMA.

I'd be giving people angry faces if they *didn't* start ventilating while there was an offensive attack going on...

CFS CFBT - A course missing its other half and bringing easily misunderstood and misused techniques to your door!

[Zippy]

I'd be giving people angry faces if they *didn't* start ventilating while there was an offensive attack going on...

Id really want to control how much air is feeding the fire to create the hotter fire gases tho...  And id hate to have external attackers putting a straight jet in creating a shitload of unwanted steam.  If ya cant use that technique...its either going to be a Wet Mess by external attack...or A Car Park.  You Could Anti-Ventilate by closing up as much Air Intake into the fire, but these days thats a bitch to do with ducting in most houses.

[6739264]

CFBT

Without dragging this thread further off topic.

*smacks head into wall*

We have a whole CFB Sub-Forum

[jaff]

Maybe we could have a new topic "Tips on making car parks" 

[6739264]

Maybe we could have a new topic "Tips on making car parks" 

"You two, get a line of 38, you, grab a broom, driver call comms and request a bulldozer"
"Sorry ma'am, aint nothing we can do for your house"

"But its only smoke from a light fitting?"

"Sorry ma'am, don't tell us how to fight fires"

*rumble rumble crunch crunch*

[Cameron Yelland]

how about we just respond with the appropriate rescue or BA crew dependant on the incident type..... surely we all know the CFS SOPs for minimum crewing, doesnt matter whos area it is

2 Minutes after that, another MFS appliance shows up, same situation, zero BA operators.

Am i missing something?  All MFS firefighters are BA trained.

As i said it doesnt matter where the incident is....you should be rolling to a structure with less than 2 BA ops.  simple!

[backburn]

how about we just respond with the appropriate rescue or BA crew dependant on the incident type..... surely we all know the CFS SOPs for minimum crewing, doesnt matter whos area it is

2 Minutes after that, another MFS appliance shows up, same situation, zero BA operators.

Am i missing something?  All MFS firefighters are BA trained.

As i said it doesnt matter where the incident is....you should be rolling to a structure with less than 2 BA ops.  simple!

There is a few retained MFS station where they are not all BA operators nor all trained as hazmat operators or RCR trained

[6739264]

how about we just respond with the appropriate rescue or BA crew dependant on the incident type..... surely we all know the CFS SOPs for minimum crewing, doesnt matter whos area it is

2 Minutes after that, another MFS appliance shows up, same situation, zero BA operators.

Am i missing something?  All MFS firefighters are BA trained.

As i said it doesnt matter where the incident is....you should be rolling to a structure with less than 2 BA ops.  simple!

Pix was trying to show the way things would be if it happened to be the other way around. Calling for resources and then having them arrive and go "oh no, we're not trained" We expect SAMFS to bring BA ops to the party, in the same way that if they have a structural fire going, they expect us to respond with BA operators, not just trucks and BFF1 crew.

[pumprescue]

There is a few retained MFS station where they are not all BA operators nor all trained as hazmat operators or RCR trained

Are you sure, doesn't make much sense, due to the limited numbers of staff they are allowed to recruit I thought this would be part of the minimum skills to keep your spot.

I know the station support staff aren't, but they don't fight fires either.

[uniden]

MFS retained stations should not be sending appliances on the road with less than 2xBA operators an each appliance. New recruits are required to do BA as soon as practical when starting.

[Cameron Yelland]

how about we just respond with the appropriate rescue or BA crew dependant on the incident type..... surely we all know the CFS SOPs for minimum crewing, doesnt matter whos area it is

2 Minutes after that, another MFS appliance shows up, same situation, zero BA operators.

Am i missing something?  All MFS firefighters are BA trained.

As i said it doesnt matter where the incident is....you should be rolling to a structure with less than 2 BA ops.  simple!

Pix was trying to show the way things would be if it happened to be the other way around. Calling for resources and then having them arrive and go "oh no, we're not trained" We expect SAMFS to bring BA ops to the party, in the same way that if they have a structural fire going, they expect us to respond with BA operators, not just trucks and BFF1 crew.

Ok thanks for clarifying.

[SA Firey]

Everyone should go and have a read of SOP 7.1 Dual Response with MFS, in conjunction with Operational Management Guidlines Section 48 Receiving and Responding to Incident Calls.

So response doesnt mean Roll with 3, go in the Group Car or otherwise.Response is minimum of 4 personnel for a 24 appliance.

The SOP states 4 BA operators, but there has been a compromise to 2 BA at minimum through some groups.

If you cant meet the criteria DEFAULT