Appliance replacement

[rescue5271]

CFS would now be woundering how they are going to replace a large amount of the fleet that is well over 20 years old and some of these appliances are being patched up and put back into the field. Could they not get a grant from the state for more money just to replace these appliances that are well past there use by date? This region alone has  a large amount of appliances that are due for replacement in 2009 but they wont be replaced due to NO MONEY. The other issue that we will have is that some of the new appliances will not fit into sheds and so CFS will also have to look at building new stations...

[SA Firey]

What will it take another 20 years to change the whole fleet over again.If they were smart they could change them over sooner, and get a better resale value making more money available for new appliances instead of the state coffers.

[jaff]

Bill You havent heard yet?.........SKYCRANE is coming we dont need apppliances!

Seriously though, the organisation is in for a very rocky next 5 years or so, with some brigades now unrecognisable from when they were established, either with the poulation moving away, due to farming practices and economy or with areas being populated and becoming another suburb of Adelaide, some HARD decisions are coming and "rationalisation" will be the death knell to the way some brigades have previously operated.
Rationalisation will allow state to move appliances current or due, to areas whos SEFC have changed, the current economy downturn WILL have implications as to our funding, as will the aging/changing demographic of volunteers!
The current replacement program is not even meeting the 5% of appliances a year it needs to keep up with it 20 year replacement vision, so the lower callout brigades realistcaly should have trucks that runout to 25years before replacement and with the more active brigades 50 callout a year?, definately keeping the 20 year replacement program up.
The movement of appliances in a 7, 7 & 6 year cycle should be revisited properly, this would keep the newest appliances were they are needed most!
The future in my opinion reads "strike teams", with more areas being left with a defensive capability, until strike teams can supplement their ability to an aggresive one for the duration of the incident.

[Zippy]

i agree with Jaff.

With the 7,7,6 Idea, it does seem to be followed with "Premium/Pumper" Appliances.  While the 14,24,34's are set to a 18-25 Year replacement...

An aim to have all Pre 1990 appliances out of the system by 2012 (fancy number like 2020) would be nice.

[Pipster]

All sounds sensible stuff there Jaff...except the bit about extending the life of appliances in quiet brigades until 25 years...

I reckon almost all of the appliances that I am aware of, whose life was extended to 25 years, due to the vehicle being in good mechanical condition, etc etc.. didn't make it to 25 years -  the pump / plumbing system packed up, or rust being discovered in the chassis etc etc- and it was not going to be cost effective to repair.

If appliance life is to be extended to 25 years (or it would seem for many appliances, anything beyond 15 years) the appliance needs a refurbishment, before being reallocated....eg the back comes off, chassis inspected, resprayed etc etc to try and ensure that rust type issues don't spell an early end to the life of the appliance....

Pip

[SA Firey]

MFS 25-30 years so we are lucky

[Zippy]

MFS 25-30 years so we are lucky

They actually spend money on the usefulness and quality of their Fire Trucks tho!

[Pipster]

Which is why they still have an appliance that is over 2 years old, and still not in service!!!       

Seriously tho', MFS spend more money on each appliance than CFS....but if you compare the number of appliances each service has, CFS has hundreds more appliances than MFS.....and hence have to do the best they can, with the money they get.

CFS could spend more money per appliance, but it would mean less appliances.

While the Government has given CFS extra money over the last few year to replace appliances, I doubt they will give much more extra, in view of the current economic situation, and other requirements of Government spending...

Pip

[jaff]

Over the last 10 years or so CFS V&E have not had much luck,(some have said gross incompetence. .....a fair arguement could be made) but with V&E now looking to get more input from the end user's and a degree of flexibility now being shown(along with perhaps some other concepts)the future of the new appliances is looking better. Now we just need more money hahahahahaaaasobsobsob

[misterteddy]

i wonder if it isnt time to look at a "de-specced" unit for those Brigades doing less than 30 or so calls a year. Even the new 34 Units could have some of the bells and whistles forgone and a very basic Unit provided in numbers. A little bit like the original "plastic" 24 concept of the 80s.....

Maybe we should also look at a different builder....yes I know everyone is going to say but its all tendered for so everyone can put in to build them....but it beggars belief that TFS workshops for instance can turn out a quality finished Pumper (albeit a bit more basic than CFS versions) cheaper than we pay for a grassy 34 from the Moores/SEM/Mills Tui Axis of Evil. Maybe its time for a strategic partnership and we guarantee them work for 10 years, which would enable them to tool up and recruit the right people - but of course....in a public service that tenders for toilet paper.....thats unlikely to happen is it 

[Pipster]

the CFS's hands are tied a bit in relation to who builds the appliance, and who supplies the vehicle etc...

The CFS comes under the Government rues in relation to purchase....as I understand it, the CFS is required to out out a Tender for the chassis, the build, and the stowage.

Companies then tender for that contract.  CFS has to asses the tenders, and select the best one, based on some criteria (I'm not exactly sure what is).

Those who have to purchase the stuff may know that Company A builds a better appliance than company B, but if Company B puts in a better tender, then they are the one that has to be selected, regardless of any previous knowledge of the company's abilities!!


The other issue with builds is the design.....CFS, in their tender document, can specify exactly what they want...and I suppose that is where the input from the end user can be most useful.

There is currently a discussion paper that has recently released, asking for people's input into appliances for the future....so everyone has an opportunity to have their say....

Pip

[Zippy]

There is currently a discussion paper that has recently released, asking for people's input into appliances for the future....so everyone has an opportunity to have their say....

Wheres this?   (dont really want to know)...but if u get the gist of it ull know why im asking

[bittenyakka]

i have a copy on my desk. it is around zippy

[Pipster]

I presume all brigades should have a copy...all the Captains in my group were given a copy of it at our last Group meeting in October....

Pip

[Zippy]

ah so the captains have it......thats the gist of the story.

[Alan (Big Al)]

we filled ours out about 2 months ago

[Cameron Yelland]

I presume all brigades should have a copy...all the Captains in my group were given a copy of it at our last Group meeting in October....

Pip

Must be a region 1 thing.  Havent seen any paper work yet.

[Cameron Yelland]

i wonder if it isnt time to look at a "de-specced" unit for those Brigades doing less than 30 or so calls a year. Even the new 34 Units could have some of the bells and whistles forgone and a very basic Unit provided in numbers. A little bit like the original "plastic" 24 concept of the 80s.....

Yes there are brigades doing less then 30 calls a year but that doesnt mean they dont have some risks that probably rival some of the urban brigades.

Bit rough to say to these brigades "because you do less than 30 calls a year, your no longer entitled to a truck that is practical for your area."

and im sure the coroner would be delighted to hear "we werent able to save these peoples life because the CFS cut costs on our brigade due to the fact we did less than 30 calls a year"

But on the other hand i will agree with you to some extent.  Im sure there are brigades out there that have nothing but a few houses and open paddocks that dont need anything other than a real simple basic appliance.  But having said that what do you remove?

[Darren]

I agree that there should be a specced down rural truck, just look at what FESA are bringing out, basic single cab ruiral trucks, plenty of water, good pump, a few hoses, how many of these truly rural brigades are responding with more than a crew of 2 or 3 anyway ?

[rescue5271]

Yep must be a region one thing, as no one down here has it.... as for the V&E well they need to take a long hard look at people on that comittee as I know that to get on that state committee you have to be appointed by the regional office and not the volunteers with in the region... If you want change to take place then those at the front line need to have a better say but also have the chance to get onto these committes that have members on it who have not been on a hose or a appliance for years....


jaff I like what you are saying,sounds good to me...As for skycrane the CFS and the state are not paying for that.....

[bittenyakka]

Yeah there is an SA govt contract out for the a  skycrane. ie the stat govt is paying.

[Pipster]

I believe with money from the Federal Government....it was also a recommendation of the State Coroner, that a Skycrane be based here, after the Black Tuesday fires...

Pip

[misterteddy]

my understanding was that the Federal Gov money paid for a skycrane to be available to deploy to support SA and WA (and maybe Tas too i suppose), but that it would be based in Melb to suppklement the skycrane based there permanently in the fire season. The State Gov paid the additional money to vary the contract for either that aircraft, or an additional one, to be based in SA - its a bit hard to tell which from the spin on the SA Gov site, and a lack of info on the national aviation fire fighting force site

[Alan J]

5 cranes coming to Oz.
1 for SA, 1 for Vic, 1 for ACT, 2 for NSW.
Federal funding for a big chunk of the costs - can't remember the percentages state/federal.
Aircraft to be moved between states as required.

Also understand the CFS 20 year replacement policy was blown out to 25 years
several years ago due to CFS budget problems.  My crystal ball says 25yrs will become 30yrs. But then it has a crack in it so may not be dazzlingly accurate.
AJ

[Zippy]

Also understand the CFS 20 year replacement policy was blown out to 25 years
several years ago due to CFS budget problems.  My crystal ball says 25yrs will become 30yrs. But then it has a crack in it so may not be dazzlingly accurate.

Well if ya truck is deemed mechanically/structurally unsound for its job by the brigade, dont respond it. Have another brigade respond. simple.

If its costing the brigade a bucket load to repair it...dont.

Explain in the fire reports why your brigade or extra appliance could not respond, and maybe, MAYBE, people high up may notice.

anyones thoughts?

***this only relates to the very near death appliances in the CFS only