Author Topic: What should the CFSVA be doing and how should they do it?  (Read 10042 times)

Offline bittenyakka

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What should the CFSVA be doing and how should they do it?
« on: June 25, 2009, 04:35:19 PM »
What should the CFSVA be doing and how should they do it?

There has been much comment about what the VA isn;t doing so i am asking what they should do and how.

This thread is not to bag them . ANY such posts will be removed or edited.

Offline jaff

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Re: What should the CFSVA be doing and how should they do it?
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2009, 05:33:47 PM »
The greatest challenge for the CFSVA is the get all of the regions to support one another, that word again................UNITY, with it we can influence the service like never before!
Just Another Filtered Fireman

rescue5271

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Re: What should the CFSVA be doing and how should they do it?
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2009, 06:11:02 PM »
The VA is the voice of the volunteers but the volunteers dont support the VA when it comes to having meetings and voicing what you think is wrong within the service. The number of VA meetings I have been to and its the same people at thesemeetings  who are the same one's at the regional management meetings. Firstly go along and voice what you think is wrong with the service,if you still get no where with your local VA then write to the CEO of the VA... Time we all unite from the city to the bush and the ourback and support our voice remember we voted these people into these positions......

As for what the the VA should do,well keep showing the public with the article's,show more photos of out dated stations and appliances but also get some country volunteers to write article's. VA time to set a date for a MARCH!!!!!

Offline bajdas

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Re: What should the CFSVA be doing and how should they do it?
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2009, 07:05:10 PM »
Join SASESVA and CFSVA together.
Link or join with Marine Rescue Associations.
Link with Surf Rescue Assciation.

Then one volunteer organisation represent all volunteers in the SAFECOM entities. One against one, rather than one against four.

I have been told this wont happen because the individual entities are written in legislation. But then they could still meet together, plan together and action together.

Yeh, I know....they say they do that now...but sometimes I am not sure.
Andrew Macmichael
lives at Pt Noarlunga South.

My personal opinion only.

Offline 6739264

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Re: What should the CFSVA be doing and how should they do it?
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2009, 08:43:08 PM »
Does the name Volunteer Emergency Services union sound good Bajdas?

Maybe that would be the only way to cross yellow/orange/green boundaries and get true representation for the volunteers of this state.
To think they employed me as a drooling retard...

Offline boredmatrix

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Re: What should the CFSVA be doing and how should they do it?
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2009, 09:42:08 PM »
tha would work fine if you all had the same issue(s) numbers

not that cohesion is a bad thing, but CFS Vols would be complaining about their type of truck not being suitable, which would be a different requirement to SES(what are we supposed to do with this big pump and 3000L tank??....we haven't got room for the 6 chainsaws, 99 tarps and 14 props!!)  - and SAAS Vols would be complaining because they don't get a truck...they have a commercial van!

band together folks...but keeping it specific to your ESO will be much more beneficial to your needs. Each seperate union/assoc needs to back the other as an entire union...eg: SES Vol Assoc backs the CFS Vol Assoc when they march on parliament house and vice versa etc etc.... (it worked in 1989 - MFS came out supporting ambo's....and then the tradie's downed tools....and within a fortnight it was all settled!


Offline Baxter

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Re: What should the CFSVA be doing and how should they do it?
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2009, 10:28:22 PM »
I can't see why the various volunteer ESO can't join or amalgamate or form allegiances to act as one. Trade unions have done it i.e. what do forestry workers and manufacture workers have in common? Answer they share the same union.

Meeting are fine but the CFS "meeting out" people when you have brigade, group non operational meeting i.e. training or OHS&W or communications and finally operational meetings. The  CFSVA should aim at using other ways of communicating with it members. CFSVA should look at collecting information so that it can argue with facts. Yes the CFSVA has raised awareness of issues in the CFS but the organization needs to have follow through by using data and facts.

I will admit I don't go to CFSVA meetings as I don't see it as practical to drive 200 + km and then back again for our regional CFSVA meeting considering that we don't have a group CFSVA meetings.
keep it simple for sanity skes please

Offline bajdas

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Re: What should the CFSVA be doing and how should they do it?
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2009, 11:15:35 PM »
Fair point Bordey.....

One question to the others. I never understood why does CFSVA have so many levels when you still do not feel represented ?
Andrew Macmichael
lives at Pt Noarlunga South.

My personal opinion only.

Offline jaff

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Re: What should the CFSVA be doing and how should they do it?
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2009, 11:26:46 PM »
Fair point Bordey.....

One question to the others. I never understood why does CFSVA have so many levels when you still do not feel represented ?



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Offline boredmatrix

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Re: What should the CFSVA be doing and how should they do it?
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2009, 01:07:13 AM »
maybe a portion of your units fundraising needs to go towards this rather than buying stuff that the ESL should realistically be paying for?


Offline wayne thorley

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Re: What should the CFSVA be doing and how should they do it?
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2009, 07:20:46 AM »
hello
 To all the CFSVA strategy is about reminding and making the public (and small "v" volunteers) aware that the Emergancy services sector is underfunded[/b] regardless which agency we are all short of people to support for volunteers. Stations are in varying condition but no budget line for maintance not enough planned funds to replace old sheds.Access to training in more technical course's is very difficult. And their is no IT strategy for volunteers our intent is to remind govt. of these shortages continously over the next few months when ever a opportunity  rise as there will numerous opportunities for govt. to take action it is not about trying to embarrass the govt. it is about asking them publicy do they want to have a sustainable effective volunteer emergency  services or are they prepared to pay for a very expensive career service which may be under utilize in a difficult economic climate.
We know that won't please all with our strategy others will say we are ineffective but we have to act responsibley and comply with the commitments we sought in our volunteer charter that we signed with Goverment last year I hope that makes it clear what we are up to

kind regards Wayne Thorley
CFSVA vp

Darren

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Re: What should the CFSVA be doing and how should they do it?
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2009, 10:18:32 AM »
Would all the vols be prepared to fund the CFSVA in the same fashion as the UFU so there was a real voice ? Hmmmm

rescue5271

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Re: What should the CFSVA be doing and how should they do it?
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2009, 10:59:17 AM »
As long as I can claim it on my tax .......

Offline SA Firey

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Re: What should the CFSVA be doing and how should they do it?
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2009, 11:02:11 AM »
It has already been said the CFSVA cant beat politicians around the head with their volunteer charter :-P
Images are copyright

Offline crashndash

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Re: What should the CFSVA be doing and how should they do it?
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2009, 11:56:40 AM »
hello
 To all the CFSVA strategy is about reminding and making the public (and small "v" volunteers) aware that the Emergancy services sector is underfunded[/b] regardless which agency we are all short of people to support for volunteers. Stations are in varying condition but no budget line for maintance not enough planned funds to replace old sheds.Access to training in more technical course's is very difficult. And their is no IT strategy for volunteers our intent is to remind govt. of these shortages continously over the next few months when ever a opportunity  rise as there will numerous opportunities for govt. to take action it is not about trying to embarrass the govt. it is about asking them publicy do they want to have a sustainable effective volunteer emergency  services or are they prepared to pay for a very expensive career service which may be under utilize in a difficult economic climate.
We know that won't please all with our strategy others will say we are ineffective but we have to act responsibley and comply with the commitments we sought in our volunteer charter that we signed with Goverment last year I hope that makes it clear what we are up to

kind regards Wayne Thorley
CFSVA vp

I'm reposting my comment after the original was unintentionally deleted by one of our Mods....quite by accident too i'm assured..lol  :-P Some of the wording may have changed, short term memory is affected by lack of sleep and E2OH

And that boys and girls.....is the crux of the problem

Can you imagine the UFU or any Union for that matter signing away its right to comment, criticise, or take action publically just to sign a feel good document that gets the Minister some nice press....not a chance in Hell.

Wayne, whilst the intent is commendable, it shows a serious lack of political awareness in a representative association....Being Mr Nice Guys and MR best mates gets you nowhere with politicians as soon as the media is focussed elsewhere

Lets hope the future direction of the VFBA (yes I know its the old term.....but it says what the organisation should be...not the current pC version) is more focussed on putting the Minister the Cabinet and Safecom leadership into the spotlight, or to the sword (as the case may be), rather than beating up on the CFS and our Chief, who can only play in the sandbox he is given

I have added the rest after my third esspresso for the morning

think what the media response would be if the headline read "CFS Association Walk Out on Government Peace Deal"


Start critically banging the media drum about value for money....equivalent skill and training (and then lets make it more widespread for all)...equal response times (plenty of MFS stations are going mobile in 4+ minutes at night...safe time as CFS crews offsite). Plenty of CFS incidents get 2 appliances and 12 firefighters, where an equivalent response in suburbia gets one truck and 4....better service????  Start talking about the need to recognise a "professional" difference in the work, the risk, and the knowledge....the fact that one is unpaid, doesnt lessen that. Build the image of the unpaid profession....not the volunteer doing his best

I'm sick of being always put up in the media as a volunteer.....they are people who work in school canteens. Me...I'm a firefighter, I just chose not to get paid to do it. Dont paint me as a victim or worthy of the publics sympathy....I dont want it. Just educate them enough so that they outfit me with the equipment and support I need to do the work to match the risk.

Do all of that Wayne....and you'll have fixed the issues that have been in the media for the last month or so.... but you wont do it with one and a half arms tied behind your back

[/soapbox]

Offline Baxter

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Re: What should the CFSVA be doing and how should they do it?
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2009, 12:25:19 PM »
Hear Hear crashndash

Not that I have problems in the direction that Wayne has described but it is a little a bit nieve to say that we working hand in hand at prompting the government to fund the areas that it is short falling the volunteers. Besides the stories that we all heard or told of our own stations. The government can dismiss all the prompts that the CFSVA put forward with the simple but true line "there is no proof to that".

I can understand that the CFSVA being scarce on the ground but without any concrete data, the CFSVA efforts can only be seen as media grabs with some shock value that have a short term use by date of a day or two.

I am yet to see a member of the regional CFSVA commitee or the state committee turnup on the door step to look in side the brigade that I am from.
keep it simple for sanity skes please

Offline Alan J

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Re: What should the CFSVA be doing and how should they do it?
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2009, 01:31:33 PM »
So....
photograph everything deficient at the stations you know about and
which has been reported to Region and
which repair has been declined or
supply has been declined
due to shortage of funds.

Send it to CFSVA with explanation & history.
CFSVA has only one paid staff member.  She can't be everywhere.
CFSVA delegates are vollies with real lives, same as the rest of us.
They can't go everywhere either. (They don't get paid mileage either.)

Supply CFSVA with ammo.  Don't just moan because they seem to be a bit short.
cheers
AJ

Alan J.
Cherry Gdns CFS

Data isn't information.  Information isn't knowledge. 
Knowledge isn't wisdom.

Offline Baxter

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Re: What should the CFSVA be doing and how should they do it?
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2009, 08:06:58 PM »
Alan I was under the impression that we are having a deep and meaningful thread about what the CFSVA can do and what they should be doing.

I can send in all types of information that we have submitted to group and region about problems in which the built in environment is the focus that we are meant to inhabit or the short comming in meeting the needs of the community. All this information maybe wonderful and then lets multiple that by all the brigades in the state. The resulting effect is that the poor and only employee of the CFSVA is so over worked at trying to make head and tail along with the relationships between all the data she is given. Even the executive see the tsunami of information and they two feel somewhat overwhelmed by all the information. With the outcome being no action by all.

United is not limited to working together but also includes the doing that work in a coordinated approach. For effective data collection and lobbying have a look at the Kondinin Group very good at effecting change in the agricultural machinery industry by sending out surveys to members that collects data in a standard way and them makes it easy for analysing to produce some very good technical reports.

I remember a little saying about computers garbage in is garbage out: No one wants that to be the case with CFSVA
keep it simple for sanity skes please

Offline wayne thorley

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Re: What should the CFSVA be doing and how should they do it?
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2009, 06:48:36 PM »
 Hello to all once again
I thought I would answer some of your responces  first piont the charter is not a commitment to silence but rules about how you engage on issues with Govt.The issues in the media have all involved comments from the VA or endorsed by us we will continue to do this when we think it is useful. The UFU focus is almost entirely about terms and conditions for its members (and ops to expand their membership with more paid crews)the condition audit is based around a building condition report commissoned by the SAFECOM Board and been shared with the VA and is about Identifying how much more funding to get stations fit for purpose is required and a strategy to achieve it into the future I guess as far as strategy gos past exspieriance in lobbying has shown me there is more of a chance of successs when you are talking inside the shed then banging on the door from the outside demanding their attention! again I know not every one will agree with this but that is our strategy and as always I look forward to your
views

Kind Regards Wayne Thorley

Offline crashndash

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Re: What should the CFSVA be doing and how should they do it?
« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2009, 08:39:55 PM »
simple litmus test Wayne..... UFU bangs on the door....We do the mates thing.... who's been screwed and whos been  funded disproportionally?

Your committment to congeniality is admirable, it is the perfect tool of a volunteer association....but we want you to be much more than that....

Offline Pipster

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Re: What should the CFSVA be doing and how should they do it?
« Reply #20 on: June 30, 2009, 09:23:03 PM »
Police, during the last EB agreement, got a larger wage rise and better conditions than teachers & nurses, and without it appearing in the media, or banging heads......

Going straight to the public, and making lots of noise does not always achieve your goal.

Negotiations commenced with goodwill on both sides, gives you somewhere else to go.  If you start you campaign banging on in the media etc, it is rather difficult to back track to goodwill...!!

Pip

There are three types of people in the world.  Those that watch things happen, those who make things happen, and those who wonder what happened.

Offline boredmatrix

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Re: What should the CFSVA be doing and how should they do it?
« Reply #21 on: June 30, 2009, 09:49:13 PM »
SAPOL got it easy - Government wouldn't listen to ambo's - we had to go to the IRC and get THEM to tell the government to cough up.....

wow - bet they wish they'd been smarter about it now.

Similarly tho...if the Government doesn't want to play ball - you can always just turn the pager off and stay home while the state burns....somehow I think that might get a response.

Offline Zippy

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Re: What should the CFSVA be doing and how should they do it?
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2009, 10:15:51 PM »
Quote
Similarly tho...if the Government doesn't want to play ball - you can always just turn the pager off and stay home while the state burns....somehow I think that might get a response.

the government usually get the media to release "CFS lacking volunteers" in reply...

Offline crashndash

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Re: What should the CFSVA be doing and how should they do it?
« Reply #23 on: June 30, 2009, 11:43:49 PM »
Police, during the last EB agreement, got a larger wage rise and better conditions than teachers & nurses, and without it appearing in the media, or banging heads......

Going straight to the public, and making lots of noise does not always achieve your goal.

Negotiations commenced with goodwill on both sides, gives you somewhere else to go.  If you start you campaign banging on in the media etc, it is rather difficult to back track to goodwill...!!

Pip
Pip....sorry, the Plods were soft in their last EB negotiation....u know as well as I do that there are a large part of the rank and file not happy with their unions work. Yes they got good rises, but with teachers and nurses onside imagine what the outcome should have been collectively.

Sadly, Zip is right, if things get tough, out go the we need more volunteer ads and a new set of innocents steps up and the problems are hidden again.

I'm not proposing wholesale anarchy in terms of our labour....but we, thats all of us....must hold the Government accountable publically, fearlessly and without mercy for the state of the service it  provides in our response area. If we cant do that, then we deserve what we get.


Offline jaff

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Re: What should the CFSVA be doing and how should they do it?
« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2009, 12:11:23 AM »


I'm not proposing wholesale anarchy in terms of our labour....but we, thats all of us....must hold the Government accountable publically, fearlessly and without mercy for the state of the service it  provides in our response area. If we cant do that, then we deserve what we get.




That would be that word again ....................................UNITY :wink:
Just Another Filtered Fireman

 

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