SAAS Responding Other Services..

[boredmatrix]

aaah but surely 'civvys' as you call them... are the way to go.

that way they dont let personal experience or knowledge get in the way of enforcing procedures...

Nothing to do with procedures.  It's about price. 
People who actually know their stuff cost more than people who don't. 
And they are a lot harder to bully into cooperation with management
targets vs. core business.

Sad thing is that it more-or-less works for a while. Just long enough
for the manglers who introduce the system to collect their bonusses
& bolt. Then the wheels fall off.  Who here can spell "Intergraph"?

spoken like a true veteran SCK - and Mack like a true manager!!

why do you think banks have sent their call-centres off-shore? 

[mack]

aaah but surely 'civvys' as you call them... are the way to go.

that way they dont let personal experience or knowledge get in the way of enforcing procedures...

Nothing to do with procedures.  It's about price. 
People who actually know their stuff cost more than people who don't. 
And they are a lot harder to bully into cooperation with management
targets vs. core business.

Sad thing is that it more-or-less works for a while. Just long enough
fpor the manglers who introduce the system to collect their bonusses
& bolt. Then the wheels fall off.  Who here can spell "Intergraph"?

not entirely sure whether youve missed my point or not...

boredmatrix - whether thats from a managerial point of view of not, im not sure. im simply saying that perhaps to get things done properly per procedures, that it is better to have people who dont have that little nagging voice in the back of there head saying "ahhh just a motorbike they cant possibly be trapped, wont bother with F&R".... i know it is important to have people with experience in positions, no doubt about that, however it is also important to have people who will enforce the service SOPs.

[boredmatrix]

aaah but surely 'civvys' as you call them... are the way to go.

that way they dont let personal experience or knowledge get in the way of enforcing procedures...

Nothing to do with procedures.  It's about price. 
People who actually know their stuff cost more than people who don't. 
And they are a lot harder to bully into cooperation with management
targets vs. core business.

Sad thing is that it more-or-less works for a while. Just long enough
fpor the manglers who introduce the system to collect their bonusses
& bolt. Then the wheels fall off.  Who here can spell "Intergraph"?

not entirely sure whether youve missed my point or not...

boredmatrix - whether thats from a managerial point of view of not, im not sure. im simply saying that perhaps to get things done properly per procedures, that it is better to have people who dont have that little nagging voice in the back of there head saying "ahhh just a motorbike they cant possibly be trapped, wont bother with F&R".... i know it is important to have people with experience in positions, no doubt about that, however it is also important to have people who will enforce the service SOPs.

I can absolutely see your point Mack - there does need to be process in order to ensure that all bases are covered and everything is achieved.

I guess from the perspective of those of us who like to see things resolved practically and with the most positive outcomes - there seems to be no medium between the old and the new. Process makes it easy to set goals and achieve outcomes, but completely removes any recognition that people are human, and hence still have physical, emotional and psychological constraints.

Some of the best managers I've ever worked for have maintained the human element while keeping the achievability of goals in focus.  typically -these are the types of managers who never get far up the food chain because they are seen as "failing" in achieving outcomes!

[24pumper]

aaah but surely 'civvys' as you call them... are the way to go.

that way they dont let personal experience or knowledge get in the way of enforcing procedures...

Does that mean that if CRD were privatised you dont think CFS and SES VOls should be allowed to work there???

[mack]

aaah but surely 'civvys' as you call them... are the way to go.

that way they dont let personal experience or knowledge get in the way of enforcing procedures...

Does that mean that if CRD were privatised you dont think CFS and SES VOls should be allowed to work there???

24pumper - interesting point, that i hadnt really considered. But i guess what i am saying could be interpreted as that... but were not talking about 'privatising' comms, simply getting new blood in and moulding these people to actually follow and enforce procedure.

[backburn]

I may be wrong but is this not a MVA   
If so what no fire cover 


11:31:22 25-11-07 WK81 CAT 2 VA COMING IN FOR WAIKERIE PLEASE. SAAS Waikerie
11:33:45 25-11-07 WK81 Cat2 Sturt Hwy, Waikerie C283 H5 SAAS Road Crash Research
11:35:30 25-11-07 BA71 Cat3 Sturt Hwy, Waikerie C283 H5 SAAS Barmera
11:35:33 25-11-07 BA71 Cat3 Sturt Hwy, Waikerie C283 H5 SAAS Road Crash Research

Does anyone now what was going on?

[uniden]

was an mva with three people in the car. go figure

[Crank]

was also one in murray bridge. with no fire or rescue.

happens quite often.  one of things to put up with i guess as nothing will change in the mean time.

[RescueHazmat]

Are the crew just as much to blame for not asking or requesting if other services have been responded as they are turning out? ..

[chook]

How would they know until they arrive or they ask? And they are getting used to not have those resources around when they are .

[RescueHazmat]

Its commonsense isn't it? .. You would know your turning out to an MVA.. (Just listen to any dispatch and you will find 95% of the time, at least general details are known about the case)..- I can only vouch for myself but I will always ensure other services (Ambulance and Police etc) have been responded as we are turning out..

[rescue5271]

Time for a very big overhaul of call taking/paging/contacting other services,someone is going to get hurt or killed if they keep playing this silly game.Time delays in paging other services is taking too long,we had a MVA Sunday I did not go but when I looked on the pager site from the time SAAS paged  and from the time we where paged was a 9 min delay......There are a lot of issues with the dispatching and only one person can fix it....

[CFS_Firey]

There are a lot of issues with the dispatching and only one person can fix it....

Who's that?

[adelaide_medic]

Kevin 07 

[rescue5271]

The person who signed off on this with out looking into it fully.....

[CFS_Firey]

Kevin 07 

HAHAHAHA!

[boredmatrix]

Time for a very big overhaul of call taking/paging/contacting other services,someone is going to get hurt or killed if they keep playing this silly game.Time delays in paging other services is taking too long,we had a MVA Sunday I did not go but when I looked on the pager site from the time SAAS paged  and from the time we where paged was a 9 min delay......There are a lot of issues with the dispatching and only one person can fix it....

hear hear!

the new coroner isn't afraid to get his teeth stuck into anything, and while I'd like to say it'd be one of the various service's managers or CEO/commissioners, the cynic in me backs it being Mr Johns hammering it home with a dirty big nail!

of late- being despatched to VA's in metro - It's usually a repetitive call for MFS attendance - because it doesn't happen initially.  Granted, a majority of the VA's we attend in metro are so minor that not even a clean-up is neededand SAMFS aren't required, but the one we do go to that fire cover is really needed will be the one that lands on the coroners desk first.

[sesroadcrashrescue]

ambos use a method for sitreps thats when they ask about fire/rescue as an ambo the last thing on my mind is have the CFS/MFS/SES been paged im alredy thinking about the job infront of me once i can see whats going on then i start to think out side my bubble.

once im there i check out whats going on then when i give a sit rep i check to see about fire and rescue i know some dont ask at all i do ask not as im pulling out the door but as soon as i start thinking that line.

[CFS_Firey]

Out of curiosity, why isn't that part of the line you're thinking as you respond?  Surely you're thinking about the job you're going to, what you might find there, how you're going to deal with it, and how you're going to keep yourself safe?

[RescueHazmat]

ambos use a method for sitreps thats when they ask about fire/rescue as an ambo the last thing on my mind is have the CFS/MFS/SES been paged im alredy thinking about the job infront of me once i can see whats going on then i start to think out side my bubble.

once im there i check out whats going on then when i give a sit rep i check to see about fire and rescue i know some dont ask at all i do ask not as im pulling out the door but as soon as i start thinking that line.

Whatever.  - I work, with Paramedics/ambo's, who often check if the fire service or rescue have been responded when they are tasked to a Cat 2 MVA, or any incdent which may require other services.. (checking on turnout, well before arrival) - Comms do a great job, but they have a huge workload, there is nothing wrong with a polite request to make sure rescue / fire have been advised.

Not thinking outside of your "bubble", is called Tunnel vision.. - Think you might want to pop that bubble, sooner, rather than later!

[boredmatrix]

SESRCR - you're right - comms do have a big job - managing upwards of 15 cars per METRO talkgroup.

 The issue comes about when the crew doesn't know if SAMFS/SACFS have been dispatched - and crews are then taking up valuable air time askng questions as to whether or not something has been done - and on days like last wednesday (19/12) - when the workload was absolutely horrendous (more than 1100 cases for the day) - the last thing you need is to be spending 10 minutes trying to get some airspace to comfirm resources when you're trying to manage 6 patients at a VA with just one car.

If you seem to think you're the Guru on everything SAAS - I'd invite you to come spend a day (or better still -a hot sat night in the middle of summer!) on the road and see what really happens out there when you get a high workload and a co-ordinator who's not that good and see how easy it is for a co-ordinator to make ambo's shifts hell!

[sesroadcrashrescue]

mate im not saying im a guru on saas just my opinion i know it can be hard to get on the air to talk to comms try having to call in every time you get a job before you have walked out the door to go to the station. i have worked in the metro area on hot nights i have been paged to go into town to help out as cases have come in faster then cars clear.

i have never had a problem with a coordinator they do the best they can depending on the shift workload. every one has crap shifts here and there build a bridge if you cant do that then drown quite simple. if you can handle the stress of a mistake by comms then get out of the job mate     

[chook]

Dude, I know you wear a few different hats. And I know that everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter how strong. However due to your nickname, your strongly held views reflect on the rest of us. In fact you are tracking very close to bringing the service into disrepute. Remember others read & report on what is posted on these forums (so I have been reliably informed )Would it be possible to tone down your closing comments just a bit.
If not could you please change your handle? As your comments may reflect on all of us & as a fellow professional I find your closing comment "build a bridge if you cant do that then drown quite simple. if you can handle the stress of a mistake by comms then get out of the job mate" offensive to me & to someone who is obviously a fellow professional! I'm sure that you wouldn't make the same comment face to face. So in closing please do us all a favour and think before hitting the send button.
cheers

[RescueHazmat]

Especially when you roll your cursor over their Email toggle and it shows exactly who the poster is.. - Makes it alot easier for the heirachy to monitor people online..

[mack]

Especially when you roll your cursor over their Email toggle and it shows exactly who the poster is.. - Makes it alot easier for the heirachy to monitor people online..

HAHAHAAH laugh my frikin donkey off...