Author Topic: Tree on the road. (Read 29345 times)

canman · « **on:** February 05, 2006, 01:26:14 PM »

Apologies if this or something similar has been discussed previously.

I was curious to how many people on this forum respond (with their brigade) to tree(s) on the road?
Are we responding to more of these type incidents than ever before?
Is it our job to respond to these type of jobs? Is it an emergency?

Any thoughts?

K

Firefrog · « **Reply #1 on:** February 05, 2006, 01:39:46 PM »

I guess it's prevention work. Stops cars having accidents if the tree is cleaned up.

It is probably an SES or Council job but if SES may have an extended response time or there are no local ses then CFS is more than capable. Plus I know a few CFS people who love the free wood...

rescue5271 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 05, 2006, 01:42:36 PM »

This is a council job and traffic control is a police job,we only get used as cheap labour time to send an account to the local council and the cops.....

kat · « **Reply #3 on:** February 05, 2006, 03:11:48 PM »

Yep, always done this kind of thing.

Refused to do a tree down in a private yard the other day.

No urgency, no risk to anyone's safety just a clear case of trying to get basic maintenance done for nothing.

canman · « **Reply #4 on:** February 05, 2006, 03:52:44 PM »

Heard a comment from an SES volly a few weeks after some storm damage we assisted them with referring to some of the calls they received. (In particular a broken tile on a roof i think).

"Can't believe the nerve of some people, think we might change our name to the State Convenience Service".

Had to laugh.

Sounds too familiar thou.

Mike · « **Reply #5 on:** February 06, 2006, 07:44:33 AM »

the SES take most tree jobs around our area. however every brigade in the group carries a chainsaw somewhere. most of the time its a 10 minute job and i dont mind clearing it as far as the side of the road.... (just to make it safe).

As for trees in houses and storm jobs etc..... well dont mind helping people who help themselves. On several occasions I have left stuff with occupants with instructions of how to remedy the problem until it can be fixed properly. Have passed on a few jobs as well.... after all crew safety comes first.

bajdas · « **Reply #6 on:** February 06, 2006, 08:33:03 AM »

New standards for SES are being trialled by volunteer ops staff before the move to MFS call-taking. Below is still being formulated so not totally accurate.

Basically if:
* tree on ground and not causing danger or risk=caller to contact commercial tree lopper.
* council tree not causing danger/risk=caller to contact council.
* tree on house=SES or CFS.
* tree on power lines=ETSA then SES or CFS

If the tree is on a road and a road accident is possible because of the tree, contact SAPOL for coverage of road then SES will page a Unit.

The 'tree branch threatening to fall on house' is the difficult one to assess. Sometimes we will request that a SES Unit recce first.

The times when the rules are sometimes bent are when a disabled/elderly person calls requesting assistance.

backburn · « **Reply #7 on:** February 06, 2006, 09:24:33 AM »

We do it as a community service . Would rather go to a quick tree job instead of a car crash. Just a job we always do any time any day.

fire03rescue · « **Reply #8 on:** February 06, 2006, 09:27:36 AM »

Went to a tree on a drive once, we did the PR thing and moved and cut up. The owner then asked us to take the tree with us. I said we don't do that. The owner said we could put on top of the truck. She was getting a bit mad
ahhh you do the right thing and you get that

bajdas · « **Reply #9 on:** February 06, 2006, 09:43:38 AM »

Quote from: fire03rescue on February 06, 2006, 09:27:36 AM

Went to a tree on a drive once, we did the PR thing and moved and cut up. The owner then asked us to take the tree with us. I said we don't do that. The owner said we could put on top of the truck. She was getting a bit mad
ahhh you do the right thing and you get that

During major storm operations we get that quite often. Makes you wonder if it was a cheap way to remove the tree instead of using a tree lopper or commercial gardner.

During recent floods had people calling to take the sandbags away after danger had passed.

Both job types were refused.

Worse one is when a 'tree is threatening' & it turns to be a stable tree that the owner wants removed (& maybe council have refused them issuing permit).

Hopefully, the new call-taker procedures will reduce the callouts to emergency taskings only. But not everything is perfect.....

CyberCitizen · « **Reply #10 on:** February 06, 2006, 11:14:26 AM »

Quote from: rescue5271 on February 05, 2006, 01:42:36 PM

This is a council job and traffic control is a police job, we only get used as cheap labour time to send an account to the local council and the cops.....

I Have To Agree With That Comment, I Don't Mind Helping Out Though.

Alan (Big Al) · « **Reply #11 on:** February 06, 2006, 02:14:11 PM »

It's funny the way units or brigades are paged for tree jobs. The closest ses to goolwa is South Coast at Port elliot which is about 12kms or 30-40mins response time, yet they get most of the tree jobs in Goolwa, we still do about 30% of them but we are only 10 minutes away, trust me in the middle of the night i'd much rather be in bed than chopping up a tree but it makes me wonder if a tree is on a road why not respond the closest or both services to deal with the problem. With a hazardous situation surely 10 miuntes to get to a job is better than 30-40???

But as for trees on houses that is an SES role but if the tree is not causing a hazard on a road or to someones property then we usually turn the job down.

We had a job recently where a tree branch had fallen on a road and another was threatning to fall in a persons back yard but was of no threat to anyone or any property so we removed the tree on the road but told the owner he had to deal with the hanging branch himself he wasn't to happy but when we said we'd move it for a donation he refused (can't help but try

)

Laska · « **Reply #12 on:** February 07, 2006, 07:47:17 AM »

If a tree has fallen along a road and a vehicle travelling at 100kmph comes along, then it might not have a chance to avoid it. Then we'd be called out for a car accident. So I believe it's with good reason we're called out. I don't think we should have to chop up wood, take it away, or anything (unless some of our crew want free firewood).

I'm a member of Kangarilla, and we attend Tree Down's quite regularly. I dont think we should of been called because of the tree is in no way threatening life (like when it's fallen down across somebody's fence and they want us to fix it), but if it's along a road where it could potentially cause an accident then I don't have any problem with it. It's just preventing somebody that could be worse. That's why we do burn offs isn't it?

Roger · « **Reply #13 on:** February 07, 2006, 05:26:51 PM »

Quote from: bajdas on February 06, 2006, 08:33:03 AM

New standards for SES are being trialled by volunteer ops staff before the move to MFS call-taking. Below is still being formulated so not totally accurate.

Basically if:
* tree on ground and not causing danger or risk=caller to contact commercial tree lopper.
* council tree not causing danger/risk=caller to contact council.
* tree on house=SES or CFS.
* tree on power lines=ETSA then SES or CFS

If the tree is on a road and a road accident is possible because of the tree, contact SAPOL for coverage of road then SES will page a Unit.

The 'tree branch threatening to fall on house' is the difficult one to assess. Sometimes we will request that a SES Unit recce first.

The times when the rules are sometimes bent are when a disabled/elderly person calls requesting assistance.

So who do you think should go in MFS (Full-time) areas? MFS are there (and being paid to be) or SES vols?

PF_ · « **Reply #14 on:** February 07, 2006, 05:34:01 PM »

The MFS should be at the station in case there is something dangerous or a proper call comes in. leave tree's to the CFS, SES or council.

Firefrog · « **Reply #15 on:** February 07, 2006, 07:05:10 PM »

Ah nope... The closest most appropriate resource should go.
MFS will have a change of quaters to cover their area if the job is extended. This is in the context of trees on roads though. Trees on houses etc. is different and should be SES.

strikeathird · « **Reply #16 on:** February 07, 2006, 07:10:37 PM »

Quote from: P F on February 07, 2006, 05:34:01 PM

The MFS should be at the station in case there is something dangerous or a proper call comes in. leave tree's to the CFS, SES or council.

a Dangerous or Proper call... ... The word Rookie is written all over that post.. !

A simple tree down can turn into anything... (MVA's, Structural collapse / damage, entrapments (either by the tree itself, or via it falling on a house, etc)...

If it is MFS area, and an IMMEDIATE risk is clear to the Coms Taker, the MFS should go.. Even if its not immediate risk, they have chain saws, they are paid to get up at 2am if it is in their area !!

And any way, I think you will find the MFS will be turning out to a majority of the new jobs any way.. What better way to ask for more funding if suddenly you are doing an additional 5000 jobs or more a year !!

(I can see alot of new chain saws !!)

PF_ · « **Reply #17 on:** February 07, 2006, 07:14:04 PM »

If there is a CFS or SES crew in the area then the call should go to them. if there is no CFS or SES then give it the mets. If someone's house burnt down and a person died cause the MFS were cutting up a tree and it took the other MFS appliance too long to get there then people wont be happy.

I think "dangerous or proper call" came out wrong. You know what I mean...

I am a rookie so can do rookie posts.

strikeathird · « **Reply #18 on:** February 07, 2006, 08:17:16 PM »

Oh, i sorta see where you are coming from.

However MFS have something called COQ (Change of Quarters). Where if an appliance is going to be at a job for a prolonged time (even anything more than 15 minutes) - A neighbouring truck goes and sits in its spot, and the gapes get filled.. So for the next call, the truck would probably come from the station like it would any way..

PF_ · « **Reply #19 on:** February 07, 2006, 08:24:34 PM »

I was gonna ask about COQ. When one Gawler (example) goes to a call out and Elizabeth (I assume they would do the COQ as closest) come down to gawler who back Elizabeth? (Answer my own question) I guess Salisbury would cover them but then who covers Salisbury etc. Does everyone move down to back up cause Gawler is at a house fire, or cutting up trees

strikeathird · « **Reply #20 on:** February 07, 2006, 08:31:30 PM »

Eliz or Sails have 2 trucks, I believe both might. So its a bit easier. But one pump stations, the next station will fill in, and so on, and so on.

CyberCitizen · « **Reply #21 on:** February 08, 2006, 06:22:36 AM »

Quote from: P F on February 07, 2006, 05:34:01 PM

The MFS should be at the station in case there is something dangerous or a proper call comes in. leave tree's to the CFS, SES or council.

So What We Don't Do Proper Calls? Don't We All Do The Same Job?

Quote from: P F on February 07, 2006, 07:14:04 PM

If someone's house burnt down and a person died cause the MFS were cutting up a tree and it took the other MFS appliance too long to get there then people wont be happy.

If someone's house burnt down and a person died cause the CFS were cutting up a tree and it took the other CFS appliance too long to get there then people wont be happy.

If It Was A House Fire I Think The Tree Down Would Be Put On The Back Burner, Or Quickly Put Into A Safe State, While Other Appliances Were Responded To The House Fire.

Remember We Both Do The Same Job.

Firefrog · « **Reply #22 on:** February 08, 2006, 07:30:34 AM »

P F. COQ cascades north, generally not towards the city. So if Gawler are at concordia helping with a vehicle accident. An Elizabeth applaince will be at Gawler station and A Salisbury appliance may move to Elizabeth etc etc.. SAMFS comms manage this pretty well and make sure no stations area is without coverage. When SAMFS have big jobs CFS brigades do COQ to MFS stations.

So trees on roads should be attended by the closest most appropriate resource

bajdas · « **Reply #23 on:** February 08, 2006, 08:21:34 AM »

Quote from: Roger on February 07, 2006, 05:26:51 PM

So who do you think should go in MFS (Full-time) areas? MFS are there (and being paid to be) or SES vols?

Totally agree if the risk is high and immediate, then the most appropriate and quickest resource should be available.

This happened during the 2005 major storm events in metro Adelaide when MFS, CFS & SAPOL liaison officers were utilised within the SES State Control Centre.

Then if required, specialised equipment or resources to be dispatched if the first responder cannot resolve the situation.

This happened when MFS, CFS, SAPOL, SES Dog squad, etc provided reconnaissance and simple clean up or make safe. Then SES crews provided specialised equipment (eg vertical rope anchors, cherry picker truck, pole chain saw, etc) when the tasking was beyond first responder. This included when ETSA crews cleared power, but not enough equipment to make safe.

Working together is always going to be the best way.

But for my info, would you prefer to send a paid MFS person to every tree/storm task in the metro Adelaide area or leave it with an SES volunteer ? The same would be asked for major regional centres (eg Whyalla, Mt Gambier, Pt Augusta, etc).

Personally, I would leave it to the volunteer and save the budget money for more equipment & training resources. Let the paid MFS continue to provide primary response to fire and RCR.

But then I am an SES volunteer so this opinion could be protecting my own patch. =;)

I would be interested in other peoples opinion.

Firey9119 · « **Reply #24 on:** February 08, 2006, 11:55:31 AM »

Personally, I would leave it to the volunteer and save the budget money for more equipment & training resources. Let the paid MFS continue to provide primary response to fire and RCR.

it does noy cost mfs that much more to cut up a tree that is on the road/house/ fence where ever,

they still are paying there fireys the same when they are asleep at station or on a job, all it would cost them is the fuel to run the chain saw and the truck,

the government would have to pay that no matter who they send .
i thnik if it is in there area get them out of bed to do the job

Author Topic: Tree on the road. (Read 29345 times)

rescue5271

PF_

strikeathird

PF_

strikeathird

PF_

strikeathird