Tree on the road.

[Mike]

MUNDCFS, hopefully SES Central Region and SES SHQ staff have heard about this and are resolving the problem.

Exactly.

If this is a continuing issue then it needs to be put through the relevant process (i know we've all heard it before!!)

However, there is 1 small technicallity to what you have said.
The 6 minute default is not to get a truck out the door. It is intended as a check to make sure a page has actually been sent. So, in theory, whilst we may not consider it good practice... they are doing the "right thing".

If that is what there are doing I dont agree with it, simply pointing something out......

--------------------
good example to Bajdas..... its amazing what you find sometimes 
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[medevac]

mikes completely correct mundcfs...
6minutes is the time a unit has to acknowledge page, not to role a truck... of course it is up to the unit/brigade to use there brains and defualt within a reasonable time.

[oz fire]

Now for some more comments that might land me in hot water.
I think MFS are a more highly trained and skilled brigade. 

you are a nob.

Medevac - you are a little too kind and polite.

P F - a subtle suggestion - before you post again, go and do some research, go out and learn about the different roles of the emergency services, the different equipment, training and alike and you will soon see a lot of the equipment is the same - yes the same equipment, the training is the same - and so it should be CFS wrote a lot of it and MFS have adopted it and legislatively we have the same responsabilities.

Funny thing really - two fire services doing the same thing in different areas!

Professionalism is a state of mind, not a rate of pay.

Or simply - we are both professional fire services and as you are testament too, we both have ill informed, under educated and non-professional members ......!

[PF_]

Well I have boiled myself in water and probably lost a lo of respect form people here (if there was any in the first place )
But seriously the MFS are a litle more professional in certain area's.  Now I relaise I have to hold back and not say which area's as I would be shooting myself in the head!

Can believe all this came out of just a simple comment that tree's shouldn't really bve an MFS task. 

I do know we are all a professional fire service, but CFS can not be compared to MFS all the time.  We are not the MFS and maybe I should stop making ocmments in this thread about this topic as they get mis-understood and all this arguing comes about.  But since forums are a place for opinion I believe it is a little harsh to make personal comments about an opinion and internet text can be "read" how-ever the reader decides....

I am doing a project on the SAMFS for Work Ed. class and can see similarities and differences in all.

as you are testament too, we both have ill informed, under educated and non-professional members ......!

you are a nob

Every one to their own opinion, I am not out to worry about peoples opinions on a computer but when the pager goes off and I go to an incident I would be professional at all times and when training also.  I do love and enjoy being part of the CFS and that will not stop.  Medevac, I hope you read the rest of my message to see why I made the comment.

[PF_]

I know I am in experienced in CFS and MFS knowledge and readily admit that, but to be homest some of my comments have been taken a little to literally and read wrong.  I appologise for all the crap the MFS shouldnt do tree's posts that has occured, I did not intend to start an argument over how much CFS and MFS are alike cause they are not. 

It's all opinion and interpretation anyway.  I am proud to be a CFS member and in no way wish to undermine what CFS do.  I also hope to get into the MFS one day.  MFS and CFs likeness is quite a strong topic with everyone having differing opininons, that is all this is an opinion to be taken howver you choose to take it.  Most of my ocmments in this thread have not been welcomed or liked, that is fine I dont mind, but there is no need for the crap that has ocme out of all this.  I appologise for any wrong information I have written, but dont appologise for opinion.

thankyou for reading if youse did

P F

[Mike]

Its all a big learning curve for ya PF...... Im sure youll understand in good time. As youve said many times, your new to the game. Our aim should be to guide and teach you in the ways of the CFS (and preferably not try to bury ya in the process hehe)

[Firefrog]

Interesting thread. Let's play nice though and remember we all started out once and have different takes on the world.

[Alan (Big Al)]

mikes completely correct mundcfs...
6minutes is the time a unit has to acknowledge page, not to role a truck... of course it is up to the unit/brigade to use there brains and defualt within a reasonable time.

Yes sorry understand how it works but as you said if they used some brains... it's a pity that sometimes it only takes a few people to ruin or stain working relationships between services

[calspec]

In further response to P.F's comments.  My optinion only

Both MFS and CFS have a job to do, wether it be as a professional paid service or as a volunteer service.

You did mean to say : Both MFS and CFS have a job to do, wether it be as a professional paid service or as a professional volunteer service. Didn't you?? 


My use of the term "Professional" was in reference only to that the MFS get paid to carry out those tasks, as in a professional golfer gets paid to play golf.  It was not in any way referring to the nature in which the services carry out their tasks.  Substitute "career" in place on "professional" for that post.

I hope that as time goes on and PF gains some extremely beneficial experience, he will understand that both services are intent on supplying the same professional quality service, with essentially the same equipment and training, and attending exactly the same jobs.  I also appreciate that full time employed members of the Mets will probably spend more time training, attend more jobs than individuals in the CFS, and as a result may be able to carry out some tasks with greater efficiency, proficiency and ease and may be affected less by adrenalin or stress than a CFS Firey - but that won't apply in all cases.

We have a career Mets firey in our CFS brigade and theere are many volunteer members of our service who are as proficient and experienced as he, and other Mets fireys.

In the meantime, PF, I suggest avoiding any reference to MFS being better than CFS in any way! 

[canman]

That's OK CALSPEC I knew what you meant. 

k

[strikeathird]

I agree with that calspec, but what  said about more dangerous jobs for the MFS has been blown out a bit, I didnt specifically mean it as they are not worthy of cutting up a tree.  Originally this topic was about CFS doing it so we were happy for them to do it and suddenyl it seems wrong...  I have no problem with MFS dealing with a tree, they had to deal with a busted hydrant yesterday. 

Now for some more coments that might land me in hot water.
I think MFS are a more highly trained and skilled brigade.  It is a lot harder to get into MFS than CFS and the training you do once in the MFS (after passing the recruitment process) is I would assume a lot harder than BFF1.  I know they are the same as a fire service but the MFS are different from the CFS.  I am in the CFS and I love it, am in no way wishing to downgrade the CFS as we do do the same as the MFS, but I just dont really think they can be made out ot be the same.  I hope to be in the MFS one-day and work with both teams, maybe cut up a few trees.

You tell your self that when ur crawling through a fully involved house fire !...  Or after you walk out of the Compartment Fire Behv. Cell .. Tell ur self that when your watching some one being cut out of a car , screaming, and crying.... Lots to learn...

(But granted, at least ur willing...)

[PF_]

I dont mean theyre different in the jobs they do.  I wont go into it as its best to zip the lips.

Yep I want to learn all that I can, just hope I dont cause anymore offence in the process.

[probie_boy]

my brigade goes to a few tree jobs. some are pathetic things that barely deserve the title tree. i remember on the night of the big floods in the hills someone called in a fallen tree n when we go there it was a wattle bush that would've been a metre in diameter. I recall us just pushing it off the road, didn't even need cutting.

[canman]

my brigade (upper sturt) goes to a few tree jobs. some are pathetic things that barely deserve the title tree. i remember on the night of the big floods in the hills someone called in a fallen tree n when we go there it was a wattle bush that would've been a metre in diameter. I recall us just pushing it off the road, didn't even need cutting.

Nice to see someone get back to the topic at hand. 

k

[Mike]

we get that a lot aswell probie. Sometimes people just dont want to get out their cars when you could pick it up and throw it to the side. A lot of times we have got there to find someone has done it for us.

- at least we dont have to get out in the cold if they do

tree, stick or twig. thats what the call taker should ask....

[bajdas]

We have been trained in asking the caller regards size of the tree or limb. Most people cannot estimate size very well (myself included).

So we actually ask 'could you hug the tree trunk or limb ?' and 'how many steps from one end to the other ?'.

The tree hug question normally gives a stunned silence and works in concentrating the caller on specifics, rather than details in how the tree fell. If they can hug the tree, then about 1m diameter or less.

We estimate each step to be 0.8m in length.

Always a problem to allocate time to get specifics of the task compared to limit the time taken to answer the call so that you can answer the next telephone.

But the more information you can give the crew, the better.

[PF_]

I was driving (only about 500m from the brigade) and rounded a corner to find a hay bale in the road to the left!  came back along the road and it was gone, but could ahve been dangerous.

[Alan (Big Al)]

Saw another good example on the pager site yesterday about why the closest resource should be responded. South C. SES were called to a tree down over the road at Yundi at about 7am yesterday, Yundi is about 40kms from Port Elliot, 20 minutes after the page they were still looking for crew.

I think that is ridiculous obviously a job like that is causing a hazard and there are probably 4-5 chainsaw equipped brigades closer to that job than them, why  wouldn't they respond any of those with SES to get the job done instead of waiting for an hour for the crew to get there.

[mack]

if the call is recieved by CFS SOCC on an SES line then an SES unit is dispatched regardless of distance (to a point) unless SOCC feels there is an immediate life/property threat or some other outstanding circumstance...

distance isnt a factor if the area is listed as acertain unit/brigades area...

[oz fire]

Thanks mack for the info - does pose a question though and also some consideration into the risk assessment undertaken by the call taker.

Yundi covers an area of the Adelaide/Victor Rd plus many others with signed speed limits at 100km - large tree on some of those windy roads would be interesting - for cars, let alone the many milk tankers that travel on those roads.

[medevac]

if the call is recieved by CFS SOCC on an SES line then an SES unit is dispatched regardless of distance (to a point) unless SOCC feels there is an immediate life/property threat or some other outstanding circumstance...

[oz fire]

if the call is received by CFS SOCC on an SES line then an SES unit is dispatched regardless of distance (to a point) unless SOCC feels there is an immediate life/property threat or some other outstanding circumstance...

Yep - and I guess the SOCC operators know every road in each area across the state!
Don't get me wrong, I support the SOCC staff 110%. however what I question is 'appropriate response', duty of care and risk assessment - unfortunately call takers are now, like the rest of us, burdened by bureaucracy, written agreements and red tape

[medevac]

thats true OzFire- the OCOs have SOPs but they do also have brains as well...

[probie_boy]

you would think - and hope that logic comes into play here wouldn't you?

[mengcfs]

you would think - and hope that logic comes into play here wouldn't you?

Unfortunately, logic is governed by red tape...........