Author Topic: Getting on the appliances  (Read 16406 times)

Toast

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Getting on the appliances
« on: June 21, 2006, 08:14:33 PM »
How does everyone get on the appliances at your respective brigades? I mean this in terms especially of persons who are not trained in the specialist disciplines of RCR/BA/Hazmat. Does everyone just jump on the truck? Do you wait and have a crew selected by the OIC? Do those untrained people get on the truck before those who are trained? Do they wait?

Offline Sam

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Re: Getting on the appliances
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2006, 10:48:53 PM »
Hi,

In our brigade we take the following to incidents normally.

BA - Minimum 2 BA, more the better. House fire or the like 4 BA normally.

HAZMAT - Full 6 crew of trained personell

RCR - 5 trained RCR (includes OIC) + 1 non trained

Sam

Offline CFS_Firey

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Re: Getting on the appliances
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2006, 12:24:29 AM »
Sam, does that mean you wait until 2 BA Operators are on the truck before letting any non-BA people on, or everyone hops on when they are geared up, and gets kicked off if a more qualified person comes?

ltdan

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Re: Getting on the appliances
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2006, 03:39:39 AM »
What an interesting topic

I have seen it before where, untrained personnel get on appliances before trained personnel cos, they think they can, and I have also seen them respond and see an incident turn pear shape.

I think it needs to be at the discretion of the OIC, and ultimately he or she is responsible.  I make sure before I leave that I have the crew that I want and the crew I will need to do the  specific task.  We need to mix appliance personnel up with skilled personnel and unskilled personnel, this is the only way they will learn.  It should not matter if it is a grassy, MVA, Domestic, HAZMAT etc.  And if you are a multi-appliance station it will always work in your favour anyway, as you usually will be able to get more than enough personnel you require to assist in the operations of the incident as you will role more than one appliance.  I do not think that you can not just keep them off the appliance as they will lose enthusiasm and eventually leave the system.  Remember it's all about teamwork.  But rule of thumb: 2 CABA to a grassy, MVA(in case of fire) three or four operators to a domestic:  but always try to have at least two caba operators to any job incase you are reponded to something else

pumprescue

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Re: Getting on the appliances
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2006, 08:00:24 AM »
Best system I have seen so far i Happy Valley. Key tag system on your helmet, when your approach the truck from the passenger side you give you tag to the OIC or Senior person on back who is standing at the door. Each persons tag is different coloured in respect to their qualifications. You pick your driver, all officers and seniors had BA so wasn't a problem. Officers had yellow tags, seniors red, BA was blue, and fire fighter without BA was white. So quite simply the OIC could have a quick look and see 3 or 4 blue tags and drop the Key Tag holder and go.
In regards to RCR some people go a bit over board with having exactly 5 qualified operators. If you have 3 pref 4 operators grab someone who is not trained and go. Get the truck there instead of waiting forever. If you need more people for an extended extracation get a group car or another brigade appliance on the road, or swallow your pride and get another RCR brigade. When CFS wake up to themselves and train all fire fighters in an RCR brigade in RCR we wont have this problem......

rescue5271

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Re: Getting on the appliances
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2006, 12:52:37 PM »
at Naracoorte we try and get caba members on the pumper and rcr members on  rescue at times we may only have during the day 3  caba or rcr members so we will roll and the crew will be mixed up with trainned and untrainned members.It all get's back to your brigade area and training,we have a great training program here all members are invoved in caba/hazmat/rcr,they may not have the paper work but know what to do.Other than CABA we would use members to do other task's as part of the team...TEAM WORK......

Offline Robert-Robert34

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Re: Getting on the appliances
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2006, 01:44:23 PM »
For any firecall that requires Kalangadoo 34 respond it's who ever gets down there from the time paged to when our fire siren is set off are the personnel who respond no questions asked
Kalangadoo Brigade

Offline Camo

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Re: Getting on the appliances
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2006, 03:37:35 PM »
Yeah we dont have the luxury of picking and choosing most of the time.

But when it comes to a CABA job then obviously a BA trained person has priority over a no BA person.

Pretty simple in our brigade though....standard rolling time is 8-10 mins.  If no one else is there within the 10mins mark you know they aint coming!
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Offline The Assistant

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Re: Getting on the appliances
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2006, 06:35:17 PM »
What an interesting topic


I think it needs to be at the discretion of the OIC, and ultimately he or she is responsible.  But rule of thumb: 2 CABA to a grassy, MVA(in case of fire) three or four operators to a domestic:  but always try to have at least two caba operators to any job incase you are reponded to something else

lt dan has a good point however we roll with what we roll with especially during the day, if we have the luxury of picking and choosing we do it this way but if there are four of you there and its during the day its highly unlikely that you will get anybody else. Our general turn around for calls is anywhere from 4 - 8 minutes.
"Don't Double Dip the Spoon"

PF_

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Re: Getting on the appliances
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2006, 06:54:24 PM »
Dont you need to respond in 6 minutes otherwise the call is defaulted to another brigade?

Offline backburn

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Re: Getting on the appliances
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2006, 08:37:08 PM »
In my brigade its first there first go, unless we need more BA but most of the time we are on the road within 3-6 Min's with 6 members.

Offline CFS_Firey

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Re: Getting on the appliances
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2006, 08:42:56 PM »
PF - You need to acknowledge the page within 6 minutes. You only get defaulted if MFS or SOC don't hear anything from you within 6 minutes.

rescue5271

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Re: Getting on the appliances
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2006, 08:43:36 PM »
Pf,you have to acknowledge the page with in 6 Min's,other wise its a default...

PF_

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Re: Getting on the appliances
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2006, 08:58:17 PM »
So someone just gets on the radio and tells SHQ they got it etc.

Offline Scania_1

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Re: Getting on the appliances
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2006, 08:59:57 PM »
How does the rostering system work at brigades like Mt Barker? Do you still turn up if you are not rostered on but are available? Do they kick you off the truck? I have heard that a particular brigade in region 2 wont let you ride the 1st truck if your not on the duty crew even if you are first one there.

Offline Robert-Robert34

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Re: Getting on the appliances
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2006, 09:31:06 PM »
i was gonna say the same thing backburn as its exactly the same situation here with first down station first to get on truck unless CABA is needed

When ever there is only 2 crew at the shed and no driver the OIC which is most senior fire fighter there activates the station siren which tends to pull in a full crew most of the time
Kalangadoo Brigade

Offline CFS_fire32

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Re: Getting on the appliances
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2006, 10:51:42 PM »
In our brigade, we use coloured cow tags on a keyring.
Each firefighter has one or more tags with their name and crew number depending on their qualifications:
Yellow = firefighter
Red = CABA
Green = HAZMAT
Blue = RCR.
Obviously if you're a BA operator, you only have a red tag, not a yellow and red.
But if you're BA, HAZ and RCR you have
Red + Green + Blue. But at the moment we don't have any green tags because we haven't been able to get hold of any.

At the front of each appliance we have a board with hooks on it. One labelled driver, one OIC and then how ever many seats are left over depending on the appliance.
24P = 7
34 = 6
14 = 3
Before you jump on the truck you clip your tag on the board, which makes it easy for the OIC to see how many of what trained personell they have on board.
It also lets the control room staff know who is on the repsonding appliance.

Generally, depeding on the call, trained personell have first preference.  For example if responded to a house fire, BA operators have first preference on 24P - the first responding appliance.  However, we will not hold up the truck waiting for anymore than 4 operators on the first appliance, so we fill it up with non BA.  BA operators who rock up just after will follow with the remaining crew on the second truck.
Basically, we try to get as many trained personell specific to the call on the first aplliance and what ever room is left over is filled with non-trained personell.
In doing this it also encourages people to undertake specialist training - which we all need more of - so that they get preferences on appliances.  Very rarely do we leave many people behind, we try to get everybody who rocks up out to the job and try to be fair to everyone.

We can usually have the first truck out the door in 4 - 8 minutes depending on the time of day and available crew etc.
The second appliance usually follows 1 - 2 minutes later, depending on numbers and type of call as above.

strikeathird

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Re: Getting on the appliances
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2006, 12:11:39 AM »
You have to have BA to be HAZMAT.. so if you are HAZMAT why not carry just GREEN, and if RCR also, GREEN and BLUE ??

Toast

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Re: Getting on the appliances
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2006, 12:54:29 AM »
So someone just gets on the radio and tells SHQ they got it etc.

Not quite, you ring either MFS comcen or SOC to aknowledge... You can do it via radio but only to SOC. It depends where the page comes from.

Offline medevac

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Re: Getting on the appliances
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2006, 03:36:29 AM »
How does everyone get on the appliances at your respective brigades?

personally i open the door and then pull myself up...

since we are just a general BA brigade, we roll toany call with whatever crewwe get (so long as we have sufficient experience on board)...

and for any "BA" call, make sure we have 2 BA operators.... if we dont have two BA operatorsd we will still go mobile,but advise the GO we are short BA crew then it is there responsibility to respond an extra crew or wear any 'kickback' that may occur...


PF - you have 6 minutes to acknowledge the page... the person acknowledging the page must keep in mind that in doing so, they take responsibility for tyhe fact that a fire truck WILL ROLL to the cakll, withsufficent crew in a reasonable time frame...

so do so WITH CARE...................................

Offline Mike

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Re: Getting on the appliances
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2006, 08:15:58 AM »
You have to have BA to be HAZMAT.. so if you are HAZMAT why not carry just GREEN, and if RCR also, GREEN and BLUE ??

So, Im not the only one thinking that then!

strikeathird

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Re: Getting on the appliances
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2006, 08:23:44 AM »
hehe... Well i just figured it would reduce the rainbow of keytags !


I read some people waiting for 6 to turn up... Personally, and i know it depends on the job, but i think 5 is a fairly effective response... however.. have people thought of taking 5 and leaving some for additional trucks ?  Also, not taking more than required yellow hats, waiting that extra few seconds for some firerys, and leaving the yellow for an additional response / truck ??

Your thuoghts..

Offline fire03rescue

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Re: Getting on the appliances
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2006, 09:00:22 AM »
The tag system is a good idea, but I have found out of the years that good officers know what each crew member can and can't do

rescue5271

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Re: Getting on the appliances
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2006, 09:25:01 AM »
We have looked at the tag system but we know whos on the appliance and who as what(caba,rcr,haz) and all our pegs have names on them of members...As for calling mfs we do it via radio to socc that way they also know we have had a call via the mfs.....

Offline mengcfs

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Re: Getting on the appliances
« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2006, 09:32:44 AM »
Quote
PF - you have 6 minutes to acknowledge the page... the person acknowledging the page must keep in mind that in doing so, they take responsibility for tyhe fact that a fire truck WILL ROLL to the cakll, withsufficent crew in a reasonable time frame...

You are right.  Anyone can acknowledge the page, whether it be Captain on his/her portable at home or be it waiting for someone to get to station.  SOCC just need to know the page did get to the intended recipient, after that it is up to Brigade/GCC to initiate other Brigades if their own cannot roll.  If no acknowledgment is received at SOCC, it is then up to them to initiate contingencies.

 

anything