Author Topic: Future Strike teams (Read 9608 times)

Scania_1 · « **on:** February 23, 2007, 01:41:55 PM »

Perhaps rather than worry about volunteers getting paid for coq, what about strike teams? Maybe some sort of system needs to be set up for CFS/MFS people to receive payment for attending campaign fires. The issue of getting people to go seems to be becoming more of an issue. Due to some self employed/employed people not being able to sacrifice their incomes to go. Or even a system where the employer can recive payment for allowing their volunteers to be absent like the army reserve do.

5271rescue · « **Reply #1 on:** February 23, 2007, 01:53:15 PM »

I think tax breaks would be better rather than getting paid...The ufu is pushing for a retain system in victoria but at what cost will that have on the community and what it means to be a Volunteer???

bittenyakka · « **Reply #2 on:** February 23, 2007, 02:29:33 PM »

I like reimbursement of the employer for letting staff go to fight fires. This is part of the CFS that you would possibly know about when joining and you should expect.

Camo · « **Reply #3 on:** February 23, 2007, 02:50:57 PM »

What everyone doesnt seem to understand is the fact that most employers dont care about the money. Its the fact they cant stand to be without an employee for whatever period.

Firefrog · « **Reply #4 on:** February 23, 2007, 05:53:01 PM »

What it means to be a volunteer is as individual as what type of socks you wear. There is no one reason or one meaning to volunteerism.

It's a great idea that volunteers should get some form of financial reward for services above and beyond. I think COQ into SAMFS area or campaign fires where you spend days away from home are two excellent examples.

I little extra cash in the bank may help take pressure off of busy families, if loved ones can see some tangible results from all the effort more people may stay in the service.

littlejohn · « **Reply #5 on:** February 24, 2007, 11:10:02 AM »

Paid/Reimbursed or not (I work for myself, so assisting the employer is essentially helping me), I'm not planning on joining abother strike team, and nor will I encourage (I won't discourage either) any of our brigade to go, for the time being.

Simply because this summer, the strike teams I'm aware of have largely been redundant. Fancy calling in four strike teams and ordering local brigades not to organise relief crews. What planet was that RO on??

It's embarrasing to have teams come into the region and do nothing. It's a pain in the arse, and completely unrewarding, to go on a strike team that makes little contribution.

I can't imagine it's easy to predict the need for strike teams, but I feel it's all gone a bit heywire at present.

5271rescue · « **Reply #6 on:** February 24, 2007, 12:11:03 PM »

Would have to agree with little john,we need to ensure that strike teams are really needed rather than drive 4 hours to get there and all you do is drive around a burnt paddock and local crews are still working when they should be resting. sometimes we still get it wrong when it comes to strike teams,may be we need to fix that problem and things may get better its always the same(food,accomadation and crews not working).

JC · « **Reply #7 on:** February 25, 2007, 12:19:08 PM »

I think its a discrace that vollies have to pay the emergency services levy.

Firefrog · « **Reply #8 on:** February 25, 2007, 03:45:38 PM »

Agreed! You pay for the privilege of providing the service. Now that is backwards!

Pipster · « **Reply #9 on:** February 25, 2007, 04:41:24 PM »

On the other hand, I'd rather pay the relatively small cost of the ESL than have to do all the fundraising to keep my brigade functioning, in the absence of the ESL.

Pip

Firefrog · « **Reply #10 on:** February 25, 2007, 05:02:41 PM »

Agreed!

ESL should stay, with service providers that are volunteer exempt. Any change in funding could be made up by a tiny increase across the board.

Look at us solving the worlds problems

Camo · « **Reply #11 on:** February 25, 2007, 08:25:39 PM »

its a pity the ESL was cut back in the first place. All services maybe properly funded by now if it was at the same level it was introduced at.

This stupid penny pinching we have to do to get by is just pathetic for a service that saves the state billions of dollars of damage each year and saves alot of lives.

Blue · « **Reply #12 on:** February 26, 2007, 01:56:09 PM »

Surely it wouldn't be too hard to add emergency services vollies to the list of concession receivers for the ESL. Or we could make the whole thing based on how safe your property is, and charge property owners twice as much ESL if they don't clear up their properties coming into fire season

Sorry Ath, a bit off topic but still on the cash flow query folowing on from Pip's comment - what happened to fund raising? Does anyone still do it? Or more to the point, is anyone still allowed to do it?

In region 1 there was an issue with fundraising a while back because the ESL was brought in and they though people might be upset at 'paying twice' (which is blah cos not every one owns a house) any cash raised from sausage sizzles, etc would go to the group to be divied up as they see fit rather than given to the brigade that did the hard yards (great incentive)...so I think we pretty much packed it in for a few years.

For me the value of fundrasing wasn't just about getting cash for the brigade - it was also a meet and greet with the community, creating a presence by getting your trucks and logo out there, and putting fire safety and awareness back on people's agendas. So I'd like to see more of it.

bittenyakka · « **Reply #13 on:** February 26, 2007, 02:52:43 PM »

We still fundraise with bottles. And i believe that group bbq events split the funds beatween participating brigades but if a Brigade held and staffed one I would assume that they take all the funds.

Hicksflat14 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 27, 2007, 10:37:53 AM »

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Surely it wouldn't be too hard to add emergency services vollies to the list of concession receivers for the ESL. Or we could make the whole thing based on how safe your property is, and charge property owners twice as much ESL if they don't clear up their properties coming into fire season

You and others suggest we get a concession or not pay the ESL thinking therefore that the current amount given to the various emergency services by the government will remain the same. Even though the government collects more from ESL than what is given back to the services, any shortfall collected will no doubt result in a cut of each services budget. The government wont step in to fund the difference between what was collected previously and now. Then you'll all be coming back to this forum whinging that you don't get as much money anymore and you cant afford to buy the extra soft toilet paper for the station.

Should emergency personnel get concessions, then how many would people like yourself get, someone who is in both the mets and cfs? Do you get double the concession that I would? If that was the case, then like you I will join multiple services. All this would result in is an influx of people to services most of who you'd never probably see all because they want to save a $1 or 2.

If you start talking concessions then perhaps we should start looking at what service people are in, right down to the number of calls they do. Why should I pay the same amount as you when my brigade with its 14, in a rusty tin shed, with no amenities that does a few calls a year, compared to you down in Mt Gambier with 4 appliances, 500+ calls (although 499 are fixed alarms to Carter Holt Harvey or Green Triangle Products), a gym, glass roller doors, male and female change rooms.... I could go on. Its not going to happen,so if you don't like the ESL, move interstate and join another service.

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In region 1 there was an issue with fundraising a while back because the ESL was brought in and they though people might be upset at 'paying twice' (which is blah cos not every one owns a house) any cash raised from sausage sizzles, etc would go to the group to be divied up as they see fit rather than given to the brigade that did the hard yards (great incentive)...so I think we pretty much packed it in for a few years

Well thats a bit of an over simplification of the actual case and ignores the complexity involved. I think you will find that to obtain/manage donations and have charity status you need to be registered with the Tax department. Doing so and keeping a paper trace of the funds is very involved. Something that the brigades you are talking about decided they were not willing to do and that it would be more efficiently achieved at group level. The "great incentive" was the fact that the money was collected managed and spent in the most effectve way for the members and the community.

Blue · « **Reply #15 on:** February 27, 2007, 05:09:01 PM »

Cletus, get your gun!

I think we were talking about volunteers getting a concession. Weren't we? By 'emergency services' I meant including SES and CFS. I doubt that saving a few pennies will bring an influx of new recuits, but so what if it does - we were all complaining about not having crew in another thread. It was just a way that vollies can receive a token thank you for their efforts. If you still want to pay it you do. It's like many other volunteer organisations I'm a part of - my membership fee is waived, but if I'd still like to contribute and pay the membership, I can do so.

My brigade has a 24, and ok the shed isn't all that rusty (though covered in mill dust and spiderwebs), but I don't call 20 - 40 calls a year a huge amount. It's all relative I suppose.

I never said I didn't like the ESL. And I like English as a Second Language too

Quote from: Hicksflat14 on February 27, 2007, 10:37:53 AM

Well thats a bit of an over simplification of the actual case and ignores the complexity involved. I think you will find that to obtain/manage donations and have charity status you need to be registered with the Tax department. Doing so and keeping a paper trace of the funds is very involved. Something that the brigades you are talking about decided they were not willing to do and that it would be more efficiently achieved at group level. The "great incentive" was the fact that the money was collected managed and spent in the most effectve way for the members and the community.

God forbid the complexities involved should ever be discussed with the brigades

Involve people and they will understand. Be open in your communication and decision making and people will more likely follow (especially important where we are managing voluntees). I think the decision ignored the extra benefits from fund raising that I mentioned peviously, and that was a sad loss that has recently been rectified for polling day.

Hicksflat14 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 28, 2007, 11:22:18 AM »

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I doubt that saving a few pennies will bring an influx of new recuits, but so what if it does

Then we get some people that aren't there for the right reasons. If they were truly interested in being in that service they would have joined prior to any concessions being introduced by the government.

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It was just a way that vollies can receive a token thank you for their efforts

Pride should be your pay. Knowing you helped should be your pay. Knowing you did your best should be your pay. Maybe you don't feel the pride, or that you helped or that you did the right thing and need such heartless "tokens". Perhaps the CFS isn't for you. Do you measure your self worth by your net worth? If that's the case go do something else.

Have you ever read a thank you letter from the public? Id take that over a generically issued token from the government any day.

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My brigade has a 24, and ok the shed isn't all that rusty

Oh now were back to talking about your CFS brigade. Two services, two helmets, numerous uniforms, and yet the thing that actually matters (the person) cant be in two places at once which bring me to what do you do when both the mets and your cfs brigade are responded to the same incident at the same time. Which station do you respond to? Do you evenly share your responses to each service? Do you favour the mets over cfs or vice versa?

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God forbid the complexities involved should ever be discussed with the brigades Involve people and they will understand. Be open in your communication and decision making and people will more likely follow (especially important where we are managing voluntees). I think the decision ignored the extra benefits from fund raising that I mentioned peviously, and that was a sad loss that has recently been rectified for polling day.

Maybe you didn't talk to your brigade (as shown in another topic), perhaps your brigade didn't talk to you (speculation why removed), maybe they did and you just didn't listen or understand. But looking at it you have been in R1, R5, CFA, MFS, Forestry and probably a number of other things all in 5 years. Sounds like you haven't been anywhere long enough to get truly involved and learn what is going on.

The decision of that group didn't ignore the extra benefits as brigades WEREN'T told to NOT go out. Brigades still got out and about into the public and did things. Crews DID do school visits, crews DID go to craft/markets, crews DID do PR exercises. They may not of done anything specific on polling day but that's only one day every 2 years or so; fairly insignificant in the scheme of things PR wise. Maybe they didn't do all the things you wanted them to, maybe you had something else on when they did stuff, maybe you were left out for a good reason I don't know.
But its hardly a case of the roller doors came down and the community was ignored by that group.

Mike · « **Reply #17 on:** February 28, 2007, 12:22:23 PM »

As I said in another thread, Play nice!
Lets stick to discussing the issue, rather than random comments, that dont help useful conversation.

Scania_1 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 28, 2007, 02:26:40 PM »

There are people who are members of CFS and MFS all over the state and if they decide to do so good on them. The issue of getting called by both services at once probably doesnt happen that often. Even if it does, does it really matter which service you respond with??? At the end of the day you are serving the community whether your PBI has yellow or orange stripes. BTW lets not make things too personal.

Firefrog · « **Reply #19 on:** February 28, 2007, 03:04:33 PM »

That's right - this is meant to be fun. Varying opinions bring flavour to this site. We don't need to try and make people agree with us, we should simply enjoy the discussion.

Blue · « **Reply #20 on:** February 28, 2007, 04:27:07 PM »

Quote from: Hicksflat14 on February 28, 2007, 11:22:18 AM

The decision of that group didn't ignore the extra benefits as brigades WEREN'T told to NOT go out. Brigades still got out and about into the public and did things. Crews DID do school visits, crews DID go to craft/markets, crews DID do PR exercises. They may not of done anything specific on polling day but that's only one day every 2 years or so; fairly insignificant in the scheme of things PR wise. Maybe they didn't do all the things you wanted them to, maybe you had something else on when they did stuff, maybe you were left out for a good reason I don't know.

I was in that group at the time. And I WAS told NOT to go out and fundraise, which was the topic of discussion (actually it wasn't, we were discussing recompensing vollies

) PR, though, has apparently continued unabated. That's good to hear.

We all know pride should be your pay as a vollie, and to those where this is the case, then i say again R-E-S-P-E-C-T

but after managing volunteers for nine years I know that people volunteer for their reasons, and not all of them are altruistic. If as a service we are struggling for numbers then we can't rely on altruism, we need to think of ways of getting - and keeping - vollies, and if this means various methods of thanking people, compensating them, etc, then bring it on. It may not ring true for those of us who do it for the love so to speak, but it may make another person stick around a little longer.

Footy · « **Reply #21 on:** March 01, 2007, 07:19:18 PM »

Well Blue, as an EDUCATED professional, and volunteer, I can understand where you are coming from.
It's interesting noting how certain members of the forum need to refer to such tactics as finger pointing and mis-quoting to try and dig themselves out of an argument...

The idea of vollies being paid is a tough one, should they be reimbursed for their time? Who knows...
Did we all join for the same reason? Of course not... (just refer to the why did we join thread...)
We are all here for a common purpose (or at least should be) and that is to protect the community.

If you are able to be a member of CFS and MFS, then why not? saying that you can't do both is like reinstating the wall between them and building a divide. It's like saying that someone can't play indoor cricket on a Friday night and Grade cricket on a Saturday. Games are generally on at a different time, your involved with two different groups of people who often know each other anyway, and one you might even get paid for.
Good on you I reckon.

If i don't get paid, doesn't matter. I'm happy to go and hang with my mates that I have made through the service.
Some people may want to get paid. Thats there prerogative.

Some kids at school want to learn, others need special rewardsto keep them their, some need incentives to get them there. Sound Familiar?

Hicksflat14 · « **Reply #22 on:** March 02, 2007, 03:51:54 PM »

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I was in that group at the time

Small world isn't it.

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And I WAS told NOT to go out and fundraise

Which indeed you were because of the leagal/accounting things that needed to be addressed which I told you about before. Unless you wanted members breaking the law for a bit of scratch.

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PR, though, has apparently continued unabated

Correct and so has fundraising. It would have been less then 12 months when fundraisng wasn't happening due to the accounting matter.

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as an EDUCATED professional, and volunteer

Well hello Professor Footy

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The idea of vollies being paid is a tough one, should they be reimbursed for their time?

No because the moment you reimburse them for their time they are not volunteers, they are staff. Should you reimburse staff for their time; of cause.
Should some vollies become staff? well yes if they can get into the MFS.

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If you are able to be a member of CFS and MFS, then why not?

Why not join the SES, Surf Life Savers and every other service so you can let all but one down in a time of need as you pick and choose what you think is going to be the most exciting thing to do for selfish reasons.

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It's like saying that someone can't play indoor cricket on a Friday night and Grade cricket on a Saturday.

Right... The fire service is a game to you. Good thing I live in hickflats and not where you think your protecting.

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Some kids at school want to learn, others need special rewardsto keep them their, some need incentives to get them there. Sound Familiar?

School kids and cricket... try to make the parallel more relevant by using cucumbers next time.

bittenyakka · « **Reply #23 on:** March 02, 2007, 04:10:06 PM »

There is Nothing wrong with being in both CFS and MFS

Quote from: Hicksflat14 on March 02, 2007, 03:51:54 PM

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If you are able to be a member of CFS and MFS, then why not?

Why not join the SES, Surf Life Savers and every other service so you can let all but one down in a time of need as you pick and choose what you think is going to be the most exciting thing to do for selfish reasons.

How can it be considered Selfish if you had red or green PBi and risk your life going into a building??? both services are trying to SAVE LIVES does it matter???

Footy · « **Reply #24 on:** March 02, 2007, 04:49:22 PM »

haha, you've certainly got some good come backs hick,
dont get me wrong, saving lives is definitely not a game to me,
maybe I just watch too much House (sarcastic doctor series on Channel Ten for those less fortunate who don't know what i'm talking about...) and think that everything can be summed up with a nice little reference to something totally unrelated, say, cucumbers for example...

As for your comment about volunteers being paid, then yes you are correct, and they do become staff.
As for running off and joining mets instead, no, because not always practical because some places would only have cfs, and therefore those unlucky volunteers don't have the option.

as for professor footy, can't say i have done a doctorate at university or whatever you need to become a professor, only honours sorry...

sorry if i offended, was not intention of mine to get you angry, just trying to add my opinion to an open forum, and help people see a topic from different points of view.

it is great to hear others opinions and if i cop some flack from ppl for now every now and then, for every person to abuse me, there is probably 2 or 3 sitting back thinking, well, hadnt thought about it from that perspective before...