Author Topic: Multi Agency Communications / Adelaide Fire (Read 6763 times)

Zippy · « **on:** December 28, 2008, 03:47:08 PM »

When it comes to Multi Agency talkgroups, i heard Yankalilla request one over SES Bravo 1 for a SES incident. I would assume this would be so that there SES appliances could work with CFS appliances and Police.

The Reply from Adelaide fire was that they are unaware of any procedure for allocation of talkgroups, and "we tend to leave it up to you guys to organize".(including CFS local talkgroups).

Anyone familar with any real procedure for multiagency talkgroups?

Seagrave · « **Reply #1 on:** December 28, 2008, 04:26:52 PM »

I believe SAPOL Communications are responsible for the allocation of multiagency talkgroups.

6739264 · « **Reply #2 on:** December 28, 2008, 04:29:39 PM »

As far as I know, all you're meant to do is request the allocation of a Multiagency TG through comms. What was the job?

Unless Adelaide fire misunderstood the request?

Zippy · « **Reply #3 on:** December 28, 2008, 04:36:09 PM »

the request was simply for a multiagency talkgroup "like 037"...which is UHF-simplex anyhow.

Baxter · « **Reply #4 on:** December 28, 2008, 05:43:51 PM »

My experience with multi agency talkgroups in the past, that they were allocated to the incident at the inception when more than one agency is working on a task/ incident. I must admit this only ever occurs when we are working in a MFS area as opposed to a CFS area and I have not had the opportunity to share the same experience with the SES yet but who knows that day may yet come.

OldOne · « **Reply #5 on:** December 28, 2008, 06:20:33 PM »

Quote from: 6739264 on December 28, 2008, 04:29:39 PM

As far as I know, all you're meant to do is request the allocation of a Multiagency TG through comms. What was the job?

Unless Adelaide fire misunderstood the request?

All multi agency talkgroups are allocated by SAPOL communications co-ordinator and normally requested by the SAPOL officer on the scene of the incident, again only if needed or requested by the other agencies.

OldOne.

6739264 · « **Reply #6 on:** December 28, 2008, 06:34:18 PM »

Quote from: OldOne on December 28, 2008, 06:20:33 PM

All multi agency talkgroups are allocated by SAPOL communications co-ordinator and normally requested by the SAPOL officer on the scene of the incident, again only if needed or requested by the other agencies.

OldOne.

I would imagine that if SAPOL aren't on scene, then Adelaide Fire could/should be able to make similar arangments with the SAPOL comms coord?

Pipster · « **Reply #7 on:** December 28, 2008, 11:21:03 PM »

There is an SOP on this.

SAPol Comms are the people allocate a multi agency talk group.

It could be arranged in two ways - call SAPol Comms direct on a particular Talkgroup (which I can't remember off the top of my head) and request a mulitagency talk group be allocated - you are then given a talkgroup.

The other way (at least prior to the CRD moving to Adelaide Fire), and I think, still the case (according to the SOP..) is to call Adelaide Fire, request a multi agency talk group, Adelaide Fire contacts SAPol etc etc.

Mallee fire, are you referring to things occurring in your area, or in Adelaide?

When MFS appliances respond to some incidents, they either request or are given an MFS talk group to go to...in the same way CFS comes up initially on a Regional Talkgroup, and then go to another talkgrou, not aware of an automatic allocation of a multi agency TG.

Unfortunately, it is a very clumsy system of allocating multi agency talk group...it would be much easier if there were allocated default talkgroup....eg if you go to a particular area, then the multiagency talk group is XXX. All services can then go straight the same talkgroup, without the requirement of having to go seek allocation etc.....

Pip

SA Firey · « **Reply #8 on:** December 29, 2008, 09:34:28 AM »

The SOP for use of Multi Agency Talkgroups is SOP 10.6

To contact Police Communications Centre for a multi-agency talkgroup can be done via Channel TG 017, and advise your callsign, which agency you are from(ie CFS),location and nature of incident,and request the use of a multi agency talkgroup.

Multi Agency TG 017-036 are the channels which permission is required for use through SAPOL.They provide statewide coverage, and are used where the incident covers a wide area.
Channels 037-041 can be used anywhere and are not network reliant, and do not require permission to use as they are simplex only.

chook · « **Reply #9 on:** December 29, 2008, 11:09:23 AM »

Yep same for SES (except B017)or phone SAPOL Comms, this will attract their (SAPOL's) attention then they will allocate a channel.
Done this for Pinnaroo storm, Sapol has done it for searches as well.
Works fine & no Adelaide fire would not have been the right centre to talk to, this is definitely SAPOL turf

Believe this is covered in the new comm's course (hard bit is to get the other agencies involved to change channels, takes a few minutes to get the message across).
Anyway hope that helps - cheers

mattb · « **Reply #10 on:** December 29, 2008, 01:15:42 PM »

Quote

Yep same for SES (except B017)or phone SAPOL Comms

I thought your radios used the Alpha zone for multi-agency talkgroups Chook.
It's been a couple of months since I played with one on a M.A. talkgroup but I could have sworn they were all on Alpha.

Also any transmission on Multi Agency talkgroup 017 will alert the SAPOL Comcen, an alarm is activated on their console on any PTT button press on that talkgroup, you can normally hear it beeping in the background when they respond to you.

piriejono · « **Reply #11 on:** December 29, 2008, 02:04:58 PM »

Matt you are correct SES radios use alpha zone for there multi agency talk groups. While talking talkgroups the new ses radios being rolled out soon have a new zone called fire services which have all the cfs and mfs talkgroups as well.

Baxter · « **Reply #12 on:** December 29, 2008, 05:32:35 PM »

In answer to request Pip I am not talking about the CFS responce area that we have but the neighbouring MFS area for a regional city. the details of the incident were that of the brigade responding into this area to assist with the suppression of a scrub fire that the MFS had difficulty accessing to at the time (it involved going off road).

In the more populated parts of the state the need for a multi agency talkgroup would be higher but the need does arise fir a multi agency talk group does arise from time in the more regional parts of the state or remote

chook · « **Reply #13 on:** December 29, 2008, 08:05:41 PM »

yep you could be right A17 maybe it

(could have sworn it was bravo)
cheers

Zippy · « **Reply #14 on:** January 04, 2009, 09:39:28 AM »

what exactly is the difference between alpha and bravo?? is there a charlie too....what about Oscar??? Where does he fall in all this?

piriejono · « **Reply #15 on:** January 04, 2009, 10:03:15 AM »

alpha = zone a = Multi agency talkgroups bravo zone b = ses primary talkgroups and zone c = ses secondary talkgroups.

For info b17 is used by all North region units while operational instead of there local talkgroup.

chook · « **Reply #16 on:** January 04, 2009, 10:05:57 AM »

Zippy SESSA radios a different to CFS, they have 3 "bands" (can't think of a easier way to explain it). These bands are A,B,C (No Oscar

)accessed by a 3way toggle switch on top of the radio. Within those "bands" the are numerous channels for example Alpha17,Bravo 01, Charlie 30 (local simplex channel-good for traffic control). This gives state HQ, regions & units a primary a secondary & a simplex channel.
There are some "spares" that can be allocated to various tasks or situations, other government departments (not fire) have a similar system i.e we can talk to marine & harbours direct (if you know their "band" & channel).
I'm sure some of the "comms" people can explain it better, interestingly as mention previously over here we don't use grn much, are able to talk to the other eso's using the same radio & to talk to police get issued a police radio!
So hope that helps (I know your post could have been an attempt at humour as well

)
Thanks Piriejono - you typed quicker than I can

Heard you guys operate like that, same as central.
cheers

Mike · « **Reply #17 on:** January 04, 2009, 12:06:05 PM »

Interestingly enough, *rumour* has it that the new SES radios will have the ability to link to FIRE talkgroups, but CFS wont be able to link to SES...

bajdas · « **Reply #18 on:** January 04, 2009, 12:20:35 PM »

Would be better if everyone used the same system of allocating frequencies (zones/talkgroups or just talkgroups) between all agencies and have a primary multi-agency talkgroup allocated to each region of the state.

Then everyone could use all ESO radio's, handhelds & suitcase radios could be shared & you know which talkgroup to go to for a quick check with another ESO in your area.

Darius · « **Reply #19 on:** January 04, 2009, 02:51:23 PM »

not just rumour, it's true that SES will be adding fire service talkgroups to their radios, possibly as another zone. Badjas there is a push (nothing concrete yet) to increase compatibility and simplicity in talkgroups/allocations across all of safecom but early days yet.