house fire

[Darius]

I have been to MANY jobs that I believe have been over resourced both with the CFS and not.

ok so the reason why you think it looks 'retarded' is you like to see the minimum number possible present and everyone working flat out.  I think you'll just have to accept that not everyone is going to agree with you!

Mate, I post on this site. Do you really think I believe I'm taken seriously? Or that I care in the slightest?

yep fraid so!   you post here far too often and far too passionately for someone who doesn't

[TillerMan]

I agree that only one appliance should be sent to MFS area. As per SOP 7.1 the CFS is complimentary to SAMFS response so it doesn't matter if you never go.

[chook]

Mr Darius, its got stuff all to do with CFS/SES - personally I don't give a toss which service does what. If you don't believe me read a very early post around one service for SA in which I agreed with Numbers (in theory anyway) that there should be one service. Or that brigades could raise there own unit.
What I am saying is when it comes to appropriate resource, how would anyone outside of your local CFS group know what would be the resource.
If you read back through this thread - SES was used as an example.
However when the shoe is on the other foot - i.e SAMFS is the closest resource but don't get called & we have to wait half an hour or more for a half crewed CFS truck (which has driven past another brigade shed to get to the location), some of you guys go into denial. And the CFS house needs a good tidy up itself before throwing rocks at others glass houses.
Finally "And Rainer already explained why (I wouldn't have justified anything if I was him by the way, he is answerable to the group management and up the chain, not you, but anyway)." this seemed a wierd comment to make to a fellow member of the service that votes its officers in & prides itself on being made up of community members & remember Numbers pays ESL like everyone else (including me) so why aren't we entitled to ask questions? Especially when it involves a potential waste of those limited dollars? Remember everytime you start a truck, turn on a GRN or a light your budget is being spent!
So mate remember when you don your Yellow Nomex (or PBI Gold) & drive your trucks to a scene (whether they be White or Red) you are serving the community & we are intitled to the best, most efficient, most professional & cost effective service you can provide.
Great response by the way Numbers totally agree
cheers

[Darren]

Interesting topic....In my group, we have a rule, the primary brigade can respond 2 trucks, and the back up responds 1 unless told otherwise. Makes for a far more manageble incident. Stops alot of this sending everything business. Leaves something in the station for further calls.

[6739264]

Honey....The kids are fighting with their cousins again!

I think some people on this forum have done a little more than 'fight' with their cousins

ok so the reason why you think it looks 'retarded' is you like to see the minimum number possible present and everyone working flat out.  I think you'll just have to accept that not everyone is going to agree with you!

I understand that people disagree, I just don't see how you can advocate having more people at an emergency than you need. Incident scenes are already cramped and overcrowded without having people who are doing nothing getting in the way. And don't let me tell you that i think 6 on a truck is too many

Mate, I post on this site. Do you really think I believe I'm taken seriously? Or that I care in the slightest?

yep fraid so!   you post here far too often and far too passionately for someone who doesn't

Haha, either that, or I don't mind getting people stirred up nor take anything seriously at all...

Mr Darius, its got stuff all to do with CFS/SES - personally I don't give a toss which service does what...

What I am saying is when it comes to appropriate resource, how would anyone outside of your local CFS group know what would be the resource.

However when the shoe is on the other foot ... some of you guys go into denial. And the CFS house needs a good tidy up itself before throwing rocks at others glass houses.

You're dead right chook. We whine about the most appropriate resource, but when it comes down to it, I don't know who has a chainsaw around here, ourside of my group. Untill that information is taken down, and stored, then we can be sure of one thing, the SES HAS got a chainsaw. Thus if a tree falls down, according to the current information, they are the most appropriate reource. Its the same with CFS Brigades and PPVs/Powersaws etc...

And don't get me started on people throwing mud whilst covered in it themselves.

Interesting topic....In my group, we have a rule, the primary brigade can respond 2 trucks, and the back up responds 1 unless told otherwise. Makes for a far more manageble incident. Stops alot of this sending everything business. Leaves something in the station for further calls.

I like the sound of that, clears up 110% of the overcrowding issues. As long as the lines of communication are open and being used.

[Pipster]

Prior to the change of CRD from CFS to Adelaide Fire, the closest & most appropriate resource was being dispatched to trees down within my area, and surrounding areas.

In all cases it was CFS, as SES was at least half an hour's drive way in all directions.   The data was there, and being used to dispatch the nearest & most appropriate resource.

The CRD function went across to Adelaide Fire, and suddenly all that response data was gone, and we have the problem of waiting for an hour an half, or more for a single SES person, in a private vehicle to attend, having passed two or three CFS stations along the way, when the CFS crew is 6 minutes away...

No over resourcing there...just under resourcing....   


Pip

[mattb]

Interesting topic....In my group, we have a rule, the primary brigade can respond 2 trucks, and the back up responds 1 unless told otherwise. Makes for a far more manageble incident. Stops alot of this sending everything business. Leaves something in the station for further calls.

Thats right, it's been that way ever since I can remember. The only time we send two trucks to another area automatically is our 14 to a rural fire in the FDS. It goes because it is not classed as an appliance (as per the SOP's it takes two QAV / 14's to equal one appliance) and too often if we are requested into MFS area for a grassy it is because they can't get to it so our 14 is ideal.

[bittenyakka]

Yeah i fully understand how overcrowding looks crap. And have been asked why when we rock up to a job to be swamped by lofty trucks. 

[49194]

Interesting topic....In my group, we have a rule, the primary brigade can respond 2 trucks, and the back up responds 1 unless told otherwise. Makes for a far more manageble incident. Stops alot of this sending everything business. Leaves something in the station for further calls.

As Matt and Darren have said, it does work extremely well.. Including the response of the 14's. Happy Valley and M/Vale 14's have been extremely handy in fighting some rather large fires in the past!..

[chook]

Ok Pip that is in your area - so what happened to the data? And if the problem is not enough units close enough then there is a possible solution
Trouble is everyone goes on about a lack of this & a lack of that in such an area. So most peoples solution is throw more resources at the CFS!
But on other occasions you can have a Volvo/ Isuzu appliance, a 14, a 34/34p, a 91 unit, a 31/41 unit plus 2 ambulances & several patrol cars at a single vehicle MVA with no entrapment. And of recent times a group car & a commanders car as well!
And if you look at some of the media coverage of recent SAMFS & CFS responses, there are vehicles all over the place.
Finally going back to the start of this thread, it was all about a tragic house fire which was in a MFS area & the question was asked "Why wasn't CFS invited?" (paraphrased)- quite simple the OIC didn't need them! I could imagine the carry on (from some members of this forum) if I asked the same question about not being asked by CFS to participate in some of their operations (where our particular skills were required e.g. boat, landsearch etc). And I have seen what happens to the local SAMFS guys when they have asked the same question.
I agree the system is not perfect & I know SES has a lot of work to do in managing some of the issues within the service. I'm not really sure what direction (if any) the services are going, but from where I sit most of this is storm in a tea cup stuff(at least you guys have pagers!)& all it's really about is learning to play together & to utilise all of the resources properly (& not worrying about who owns them - after all they all belong to the tax payer).
Maybe Numbers is right one emergency service for SA is the way to go
cheers

[Pipster]

all it's really about is learning to play together & to utilise all of the resources properly

My point exactly.

Pip

[SA Firey]

all it's really about is learning to play together & to utilise all of the resources properly

My point exactly.

Pip

Its all about looking after your own backyard first too

[Firey9119]

3rd alarm and salisbury cfs not called!!!!!

Because every time we ask for 1 Salisbury CFS truck we end up with 3, if we ask for 1 send 1, not the 34 and the regional spare !! 

so pumprescue you did not answer the question are you stationed at station 32??

as i beleave you are missing something here!!!!

as most calls we get going into mfs area we only send 1(ONE) TRUCK

if its a going job we have been asked a number of times - hungry jacks fire, brahma logde house fire to name a few , the station officer has thanked us for the help.


and finally if it is mfs area and we are the only truck going we send what we see fitting!!!

[Heavy Rescue]

and finally if it is mfs area and we are the only truck going we send what we see fitting!!!

That would explain the two appliances to an MVA in MFS area last night, I was wondering what prompted that.

How do you know if MFS are going or not though ?? You cannot rely on the page as quit often you will be only one on the initial page but another MFS appliance will be added to the job shortly after.

[Zippy]

if its just SLSB19 to a MVA in MFS area, it sounds logical to send a Rescue and Fire appliance (hence 24P/34)

[RescueHazmat]

Not when its in MFS area..

Do you think MFS respond CFS into their area, and not turn out their own trucks, on the hope that CFS will crew?

[Zippy]

yeah you got a point there,  202 (in maybe oakdens area) was also enroute to the MVA it sounded.

[car31]

facts people- Salisbury CFS were being turned out all night on Wednesday by themselves due to 2 domestic fires in Elizabeth (ps no chg of quarters, just CFS response)and yes Salisbury CFS rolled two trucks out the door to a MVA into MFS area as they were the only responders, no other MFS appliances were dispatched.And guess what, the job was done and done well!!!

To be honest i dont understand this whole thread, Salisbury CFS do over 450 calls a year so it is not in their interest to drum up extra calls or even dispatch more trucks than necessary due to the busy nature of the brigade. There will always be a minority of people that play the "what about us" card but I would suggest that is not the feelings of the total brigade.

As far as I am concerned if the pager goes of trucks will roll out the door as deemed appropriate at the time by the OIC. if that response is deemed to be inappropriate by MFS in MFS area speak to someone of rank, ask questions give people the chance to learn if mistakes are made, dont just bitch on an internet forum where nothing will get done to address an issue if it is there.

and yes, i am a very proud member of Salisbury CFS

[safireservice]

yeah you got a point there,  202 (in maybe oakdens area) was also enroute to the MVA it sounded.

Speaking to someone from Salisbury, the only MFS appliance that attended was Oakden 301 only to drop off some more adsorbent, and then they left.

[safireservice]

Not when its in MFS area..

Do you think MFS respond CFS into their area, and not turn out their own trucks, on the hope that CFS will crew?

How do you know that a quick phone call wasnt made to the CFS station saying  "hang around fella's, a lot of our resources committed"? Listening to the jobs going down they were on the road pretty much straight away after the page.

[Zippy]

yeah you got a point there,  202 (in maybe oakdens area) was also enroute to the MVA it sounded.

Speaking to someone from Salisbury, the only MFS appliance that attended was Oakden 301 only to drop off some more adsorbent, and then they left.

Ah, well i overheard they were having MCT problems EG showing which area an appliance is in....202 was rolling to the MVA, but Salisbury stop called them.   (Since 202 is Rescue)

Job done, good work.

[Hazmat206]

202 is not rescue,albeit it has the resources, it's a second pumper. 204 is the rescue

[Zippy]

202 is actually 209...but for dispatching purposes it had to be 202 to not conflict with 204

and ive heard its becoming 339 anyway...hence the New volvo becoming either 201 or 202...

[6739264]

Dare I ask, is it so hard to query other resources that have been responded?

Numerous times, I have looked at the pager, to see only our brigade going to something out of area/should be multiple resources. Upon calling Adelaide Fire, I have asked what else is going and they are able t fill me in...



ITS

NOT

THAT

HARD.

[Zippy]

Exactly.