trench rescue course

[rescue5271]

Can anyone tell me does CFS run this course or is it on ses that do this course?? I know most CFA rescue brigades do this course and feel this may be a good area for CFS to go into due to the large amount of earth work going on here in SA at the moment....

[corocfs]

hmmm i dont think CFS does run it.. as it is really an SES type role (confined space/USAR type thing)some CFS areas would definitely benefit from it.. however i cant see it happening anytime in the future...

[Stefan KIRKMOE]

SACFS don't run a specific trench rescue course, at Burnside we have done Confined Space Entry and Rescue which goes in the similar bucket I guess and also trench rescue awareness..... I think there is some training video kicking around somewhere about trench rescue....

[oz fire]

Don't actually know that it is delivered in SA - I know people have gone to Vic with MFB and also Qld with QFRS to do some USAR and trench/confinded space resuce.

I also belive that the new training officer (Brett Polini - ex CFA, NTFS, Army) is tasked with looking into confined space rescue and a number of other areas!

[djwiz]

Can anyone tell me does CFS run this course or is it on ses that do this course?? I know most CFA rescue brigades do this course and feel this may be a good area for CFS to go into due to the large amount of earth work going on here in SA at the moment....

In VIC, it's the CFA or MFB (not SES) responsible for Confined Space and Trench Rescue. It went to the fire services because of the requirement for Breathing Apparatus. Perhaps SA should be the same i.e. MFS/CFS not SES as I presume SASES has no/rare B.A?

...With the mention of USAR, that was an even more recent decision in Victoria and is a combined responsibility of MFB, CFA & SES (dunno how control boundaries go) with lots of training being conducted over the past couple of years (I think Thredbo was a real awakening for USAR training in Australia, just look at the Semi-trailer NSWFB picked up for it).

CFA normally has a couple of urban brigades per region trained/responsible for Technical Rescue. In the South West Area it's Reg. 4 - Casterton (RAR), Portland and Reg. 5 - Hamilton and Warrnambool. We had training together yesterday and decided to change the meeting calendar to 3 times a year, with sessions held at each brigade's station in order followed by the next session at the Western District Training Ground, Penshurst.

James 'DJ Wiz' Witham,
Portland CFA.

P.S. Brett Polini is ex-Navy, not Army. He held a Marine (ship) Firefighting Course at Portland (we travelled to HMAS Cerberus aswell) a couple of years ago when he was an instructor for the CFA South West Area.

[corocfs]

not sure how widespread it is, however i do know that Sturt SES do have BA (cant remember if tis 2 or 4 sets).. as we have been asked to do there cylinder re-fills.

i think the intention behind them is for confined space rescue and USAR, im pretty sure there intention is to get SES to have the capability throughout most of the state to acess un-breatheable environments.

[TillerMan]

Yes, noarlunga also have B.A sets. At least 4. Also have a trailer with B.A airlines for confined spaces.

[corocfs]

good to see them getting the gear.

dissapointing for them however that they are only getting FRP cylinders, and not lighter carbon fibre ones... which would definitely be better for confined space jobs as they are not only lighter but smaller too...

[oz fire]

Sorry guys - I have to disagree - what a load of ......! To what standard are they traning in BA - I'm guessing to industry standard, not fire service. Similar to verticle resuce/confioned space rescue - there are new international standards - twine line rescue, new confined space practices with appropriate PPC and monitoring equip - surely it's time that the services stopped going of on tangents!

In one page most of us are talking and agreeing on reducing duplication - here we are seeing it and endorsing it and its without a standard ...... how hard can it be?

I don't care who does it, honestly don't give a toss, but I believe it's about time that we adopted a common standard across the state - if the two fire services can do it for training (CABA, RCR, HAZMAT, AIIMS, Compartment etc, etc, etc), then surely SES can too - it's not that hard, the materials there, SAFECom own it, register it (as the RTO)so it's not even a $$$ thing - it's people in silos - morons, pig headed individuals, who need to build empires, castles and have small mans sindrome!

Am I pissed by this .... YES!  I have watched this happen, we aren't getting closer together as we all speak, we are infact condoning the multiple standards, the silos and rejecting the shareing, standardising and providing the best service to OUR communities.

Ahhh, thats better, sorry, but needed to get that off my chest - I'm sick of seeing silos being built, the sooner the old dead, has been wood is removed from our services and we learn to share, built together the better 

[kat]

Beware, the old dead wood may actually have some impact on the integrity of the structure

[corocfs]

Sorry guys - I have to disagree - what a load of ......! To what standard are they traning in BA - I'm guessing to industry standard, not fire service. Similar to verticle resuce/confioned space rescue - there are new international standards - twine line rescue, new confined space practices with appropriate PPC and monitoring equip - surely it's time that the services stopped going of on tangents!

im sorry... but wtf.

dont be stupid, confined space rescue is an SES role wether you like it or not, and they need the equipment to do it with, and of course they will be trained to use it. by the way... why would they need to be trained to a fire service standard? confined space rescue is a damn site differant to entering a burning structure...

[strikeathird]

Fair Call that ^ .

Oz - Agree with you on a few points about the services getting further away.

But agree with F/truck on the Confined space topic.

[corocfs]

further to my last, i also believe that CFS would actually be going on a tangent and adding new roles (poaching SES roles) to the service if they started trying to do trench/confined space rescue....

i am aware that there are peculiarities within the service that require it in certain areas, but definitely no needto adopt it statewide where resources exist. (goes back to all comments about duplicating services)

[Wagon 1]

I don't see a problem with CFS doing anything they like, as in Confined space, trench rescue. There are a very large number of areas that have no SES or SES with very limited roles. Like Nuriootpa or Naracoorte, its going to be hours before they get any form of SES backup, and in most cases they are going to ask for the likes of the urban SES like Noarlunga or Sturt to come out anyway.

[fire03rescue]

I think the MFS are sending some staff to Sydney to do Urban Search and rescue course

[oz fire]

im sorry... but .
dont be stupid, confined space rescue is an SES role wether you like it or not, and they need the equipment to do it with, and of course they will be trained to use it. by the way... why would they need to be trained to a fire service standard? confined space rescue is a damn site differant to entering a burning structure...

I would have throught, with your employment that you more than most would be aware of the equipment and training required to Confined Space Rescue. Secondly the primary response for Confined Space Rescue in SA is MFS, followed by SAPol - then SES or CFS - also should not forget that SAAS through their SOT participate (who are trained as are SAPol in CABA and Hazmat by both CFS and MFS!!!!)

The training standard has allot to do with it - the principles of CABA are the same regardless, the principle of entering an irrespirable atmosphere are the same, the safety precautions very similar as are the monitoring levels.

Interesting to note, that in many areas of SA, where Silos, bunkers and alike exist, these companies have the local fire service listed for recuse inside their premises, as I should mention do allot of wineries.

Like it or not, its a skill that both services could provide, however why equip SES with CABA, Atmospheric Monitoring equip (the basis for confined space rescue - as we are not talking rescue from heights) when the fire services who service the area have it?

As I said originally- I don't give a toss who does it, however ensure there is a standard, there is no duplication and that WE (all the ESO's) provide a level of service acceptable to the community. - Forget the colour of the uniform and the perception of who's role it is - lets look at who carries it out - sorry, currently that MFS and SAPol  

[corocfs]

Secondly the primary response for Confined Space Rescue in SA is MFS, followed by SAPol - then SES or CFS - also should not forget that SAAS through their SOT participate (who are trained as are SAPol in CABA and Hazmat by both CFS and MFS!!!!)

this depends entirely on where it is. would love to see theplaces where SAMFS or starries are 4-5 hours away, because im fairly sure retainees at SAMFS stations arent trained, anyone know?

[Stefan KIRKMOE]

I'm not sure of the integrity of the comments  that were made on my CSR course that there is in fact no legislation as to who is the appropriate rescue authority in relation to confined space.... It is unlike say RCR where there is the green book and a committee who works out designated areas but in relation to confined space it hasn't so much been tested or been a great need for it in SA. No agencies are really equipped for it i don't think aside from noarlunga ses, burnside cfs (part of hazmat role) and SAMFS 204 from town..... i may be corrected but from what i understand that is the extent of CSR is SA at this time....

[Wagon 1]

True, how often has a trench or collapse rescue been caled in, its not a very regular occurence in this state.

[TillerMan]

Do staries have anything to do with it?? Maybe it's something they could do, although BA is abit of an issue.

[oz fire]

Last I heard Staries were trained in basic USAR (don't know about trench rescue)- utilising the equipment form other services - MFS and SES. As far as BA - Staries have access to BA and have been accredited by both CFS and MFS as have a number of other sections of SAPol that work closely with CFS and MFS.

[Sam]

We have been trained in confined space out of CFS of our own back as we have a lot of wine tanks here, that people may fall in. It rarely gets used. We only have a tripod and harnesses, with 1 hooker line B.A set. As was stated our S.E.S would be most likely half and hour of more away.

[bajdas]

"...how often has a trench or collapse rescue been caled in, its not a very regular occurence in this state..."

The USAR techniques have been used by metropolitan SES Units for many years and they are used often. The 'shoring of unstable structures' techniques is used in car vs building incidents, Riverside Golf Club collapse, Karoonda storm, Mercury05 exercise, etc.

From my understanding the only SES Units to have BA and USAR trailers are Tea Tree Gully, Sturt and Noarlunga. All of them are metropolitan Adelaide SES units, not in the country areas.

I understand that training officers from multi-agencies are working through the issues re USAR training and equipment for South Australia. I would hope that the techniques would then be applied consitently to all emergency service organisations.

I personally do not see where the duplication of equipment is ! In metropolitan areas, MFS provide the initial incident management, then SES volunteers provide the cleanup incident management. Thus paid staff are available for quick fire response. This was the case with the Riverside Gold collapse. Is this not a good use of resources ?

As for BA and atmospheric monitoring, no-one should enter a confined space area without proper equipment to make the operator safe. So SES volunteers are being safe.

SES BA operators are trained to standards and regularly undergo re-accreditations.

The sharing of equipment, skills and resources at incidents is what I thought should be the aim. Look at the Long Plains silo rescue, Eyre Peninsula fires and Virginia flooding as examples. Everyone has a skill set required to achieve a safe outcome for the community of South Australia.

[strikeathird]

Are CFS able to do confined space or USAR training.. ??

What happens if the SES members are out of area.. ?

I know if it was available I would undertake USAR training.. Even if it were on a state register to be called to crew a truck if it were required.

[bajdas]

Hopefully all emergency service people will complete USAR Category 1 training in the future.

One day I personally hope a combined emergency services task group from South Australia will match the United Nations requirements. At this time NSW and Qld (60 people, 20 immediate) are registered at http://ocha.unog.ch/virtualOSOCC/USAR_Directory/USARTeamsByCountry.asp

Gawd knows if an earthquake or bomb hit anywhere in Australia (esp country regions) we will never have enough combined equipment or people.